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Update On Endeavors Resetting Issue
-
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Finedaible wrote: »Lets play roulette then. Certainly our odds are good, right?
... Right?
Zenimax is not playing roulette. They would be looking for specific behavior to determine who they banned up front.
They literally stated that they unbanned a ton of people because it was determined they had not met their criteria.
That is not the same as playing Russian roulette. Far from it. They set criteria in their search to grab accounts that might be involved and yes, it grabbed some that were not but had similar behavior. Russian roulette is nothing but a shot in the dark, a completely random gamble which is hardly the case here.
In this analogy, Players are playing roulette with Endeavors now, not ZOS.
The bullet: Is this the glitched Endeavor that, in conjunction with my normal gameplay, makes it look like I exploited if I don't notice?
Now, it sounds like ZOS has increased their threshold for temp bans so they're less likely to ban a whole bunch of people for doing normal gameplay in a major crafting hub...but I cannot blame players for worrying.
Do we know exactly what Zenimax used to target who was caught in the dragnet? Without that information, we can only assume. With that, it can be a fair assessment that some players will think it is like playing Russian roulette but only due to the lack of information. However, it seems, based on Zenimax comments, that they have refined what spurs catching who is exploiting and that it is even rare someone would accidentally trigger the exploit.
We know from past exploits, like the Imperial City exp glitch, that ZOS bans first then reviews accounts to sort out those who were deemed to have actually exploited the situation. Which is exactly what just happened again. Whatever their trigger, they banned first, then reviewed their threshold to decide who got unbanned. (That seals are currency suggests that similar to the IC exp glitch, they looked at the difference between thresholds for an unknown numbers of players who were reasonably farming Tel Var for housing chests vs the 276 players who went all-in on the exp farming. But we don't actually know for sure in this case because ZOS isn't saying.)
This blew over fairly quickly in the IC exploit incident because ZOS actually fixed the problem. So far, ZOS hasn't fixed the Endeavors issue, raising the specter that this could happen again.
Now, ZOS says they've tweaked their parameters so that players shouldn't be triggering either review or discipline accidently.
That's great...if you trust ZOS to get it right.
Fundamentally, this analogy is about trust.
And while it's fantastic that you trust ZOS, you can't make risk-adverse players trust ZOS when their account is on the line. More reassurances by ZOS aren't going to help, not really, not when trust in ZOS is in question. Fixing the bug would.8 -
ProfDogWalks✭✭A friend sent me this thread today, I don't usually keep up with the forums, so apologies if I repeat something that has been said before.
This is the email I've sent in reply to being told it's okay I get my account back. Had to think for a few days before I sent it. I don't think anyone who doesn't play these types of MMOs would understand the feeling we had when we got kicked out with no warning and then BANNED. I didn't even get an email at that time. It's like coming home after a long day, and finding out you've been evicted. Except no one threw our stuff out in the street. They kept our stuff, that we'd paid real life money for.
For the record, I have a job, and a friend.
Also I forgot to mention the stables in this email.
Hello,
To say I am upset is not to describe my feelings! I understand you had the need to suspend accounts due to the nature of the problem, however your message on the game said 'permanently banned'. Do you even understand how extreme the distress is, that you cause with this message? Many of us online gamers have little social lives outside the game. Many do not work. This IS our social lives. That's what keeps us coming back - that need to be part of a community, some of us make lasting friendships here, that we can't sustain in real life and the emotional distress caused is unreal. You need to have a different message for times you feel the need to pause accounts to investigate to something like 'suspended for investigation', not PERMANENT.
The other complaint I have is this message. 'YOU EXPLOITED' I 100% did NOTHING of the SORT. I played the game that YOU created. I did the crafting DAILIES on multiple characters, something entirely within the game. It is really not my fault that you have set up the best trading and crafting hub in Reapers March. Closest wayshrine to bank - check. Writ hand in boxes - right next to crafting zone - check. Can use horse between craft tables - check. Provisioning right next to recipe sales - check. Thieves guild entrance - TWO right in the area - check. House for travel - check. Traders - right next to bank and wayshrine - check.
Please refrain from stating that I exploited, when I played the game. As soon as I heard about it - I STOPPED playing the game as I wanted to, reported it, and went and did something else to AVOID exploiting. I am accused of things I haven't done.
You need a PR manager to write your emails to avoid angering your paying customers for doing something you provide them to do!
Regards,
23 -
wilykcat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a life outside of the game (I have a part time job away from home, I go outside, I have hobbies, and then I play Elderscrolls). I dont really play online games to be social. On the other hand, it would be nice to have a small group of friends to play with. I mostly play the game when I am bored and just for fun.
I don't make a big deal out of temporary account actions.
When it's a permanent account action then it's a totally different story:I understand why permanent bans and/or account closures (without clear reasons/without previous warnings) are so upsetting because that happened to me in another game (guild wars 2 last year). I also spent lots of money and time on gw2 too. Guild wars 2 support even blocked my email so I cant appeal it. The rest of the story is very personal.
In eso they banned a bunch of players for exploiting.
They reinstated the accounts of those who they banned by mistake and those who appealed.
They kept others banned because they found out those who actually did break the rules by exploiting an ingame bug.
Honestly Zenimax is doing their best to find the cause and to resolve the problems. They want players to enjoy the game and the forums as much as possible. Also they are working on improving the communications better in order to let others know. I'm seeing the improvements.
I give Zenimax credit for their efforts.
Edited by wilykcat on August 7, 2023 1:54PM3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Finedaible wrote: »Lets play roulette then. Certainly our odds are good, right?
... Right?
Zenimax is not playing roulette. They would be looking for specific behavior to determine who they banned up front.
They literally stated that they unbanned a ton of people because it was determined they had not met their criteria.
That is not the same as playing Russian roulette. Far from it. They set criteria in their search to grab accounts that might be involved and yes, it grabbed some that were not but had similar behavior. Russian roulette is nothing but a shot in the dark, a completely random gamble which is hardly the case here.
In this analogy, Players are playing roulette with Endeavors now, not ZOS.
The bullet: Is this the glitched Endeavor that, in conjunction with my normal gameplay, makes it look like I exploited if I don't notice?
Now, it sounds like ZOS has increased their threshold for temp bans so they're less likely to ban a whole bunch of people for doing normal gameplay in a major crafting hub...but I cannot blame players for worrying.
Do we know exactly what Zenimax used to target who was caught in the dragnet? Without that information, we can only assume. With that, it can be a fair assessment that some players will think it is like playing Russian roulette but only due to the lack of information. However, it seems, based on Zenimax comments, that they have refined what spurs catching who is exploiting and that it is even rare someone would accidentally trigger the exploit.
We know from past exploits, like the Imperial City exp glitch, that ZOS bans first then reviews accounts to sort out those who were deemed to have actually exploited the situation. Which is exactly what just happened again. Whatever their trigger, they banned first, then reviewed their threshold to decide who got unbanned. (That seals are currency suggests that similar to the IC exp glitch, they looked at the difference between thresholds for an unknown numbers of players who were reasonably farming Tel Var for housing chests vs the 276 players who went all-in on the exp farming. But we don't actually know for sure in this case because ZOS isn't saying.)
This blew over fairly quickly in the IC exploit incident because ZOS actually fixed the problem. So far, ZOS hasn't fixed the Endeavors issue, raising the specter that this could happen again.
Now, ZOS says they've tweaked their parameters so that players shouldn't be triggering either review or discipline accidently.
That's great...if you trust ZOS to get it right.
Fundamentally, this analogy is about trust.
And while it's fantastic that you trust ZOS, you can't make risk-adverse players trust ZOS when their account is on the line. More reassurances by ZOS aren't going to help, not really, not when trust in ZOS is in question. Fixing the bug would.
Ultimately, my feeling is that, eventually, one needs to not care, trust ZOS, or move on to another game. Sure, this bug is out there and is still live, and even rare, players can be come across it. ZOS says that people who do come across it are going to be OK, unless they exploit it "excessively". Players either don't care or just trust ZOS. If they can't do either, then sticking around is just going to be stressful.
You suggest that people would feel better if the bug is fixed, but is that really what would make people feel better? This game is filled with unfixed bugs, and they can introduce new bugs every time they update the game. Their quality control is not sufficient to prevent this. So, if not this bug, then another one.
I maintain that the effective fix for this is to stop doing things the way they are doing it. Just because someone there likes it does not mean it is the best way to do it. Stop with the "catch and release". They need to FULLY investigate issues before they ban ANYONE, then decide who needs to be banned, who needs to be warned, ignore everyone else. They are doing the work, they just need to do it before they charge into the field and start stomping around. No fuss... investigate, then ban. There is no need for unbanning anyone if they do this properly.
If they need to clean up, send a note to the people who were not banned saying that the account needs to be locked due to a bug, lock the accounts as needed, do the work, and unlock the accounts as quickly as they can.
By eliminating all the banning, then unbanning, drama, they remove a large portion of the visible problem. One still needs to trust ZOS, but as this is out of sight for most players, and when it is in sight, it is a "cleanup" rather than a punishment, it won't be so dramatic.
5 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »
Is this "kill with class skills" or "kill with weapon skills? I have ongoing issues with these, as my mains (who are the ones doing the endeavors) are all wardens - and it takes me a bit to remember to either summon the bear (if kill with class skills) or dismiss the bear (if kill with weapon skills).
Which is why I generally don't do either of them....
Also dismissing companions seems to help. But yes I notice that even when I am careful to only use weapon skills some of the kills don't count. I have no idea why.
I don't use companions, so that's not it for me. But yes, I do notice that ever if I'm NOT just a space cadet, and even if I "fix" the bear (depending on the actual endeavor), it still doesn't work all the time.... I do have to say though, that my mega ping could be my issue.
When this happens to me it’s usually because I’ve forgotten and put down an aoe of the wrong type out of habit before starting in with my weapon or class skills, and are usually automatically working in light attacks out of habit too, so I’ve always thought they just died to the wrong skill.
Or, I’ve wondered if my class skill or weapon skill procced an armor set effect that ended up getting them in the end.Edited by Elvenheart on August 7, 2023 2:49PM1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elvenheart wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »
Is this "kill with class skills" or "kill with weapon skills? I have ongoing issues with these, as my mains (who are the ones doing the endeavors) are all wardens - and it takes me a bit to remember to either summon the bear (if kill with class skills) or dismiss the bear (if kill with weapon skills).
Which is why I generally don't do either of them....
Also dismissing companions seems to help. But yes I notice that even when I am careful to only use weapon skills some of the kills don't count. I have no idea why.
I don't use companions, so that's not it for me. But yes, I do notice that ever if I'm NOT just a space cadet, and even if I "fix" the bear (depending on the actual endeavor), it still doesn't work all the time.... I do have to say though, that my mega ping could be my issue.
When this happens to me it’s usually because I’ve forgotten and put down an aoe of the wrong type out of habit before starting in with my weapon or class skills, and are usually automatically working in light attacks out of habit too, so I’ve always thought they just died to the wrong skill.
Or, I’ve wondered if my class skill or weapon skill procced an armor set effect that ended up getting them in the end.
Yeah, there's actually a lot of RNG with the actual "kill" where it can go wrong! Sometimes everything goes perfectly and you're done before you know it.
Other times.... not so much.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elvenheart wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »
Is this "kill with class skills" or "kill with weapon skills? I have ongoing issues with these, as my mains (who are the ones doing the endeavors) are all wardens - and it takes me a bit to remember to either summon the bear (if kill with class skills) or dismiss the bear (if kill with weapon skills).
Which is why I generally don't do either of them....
Also dismissing companions seems to help. But yes I notice that even when I am careful to only use weapon skills some of the kills don't count. I have no idea why.
I don't use companions, so that's not it for me. But yes, I do notice that ever if I'm NOT just a space cadet, and even if I "fix" the bear (depending on the actual endeavor), it still doesn't work all the time.... I do have to say though, that my mega ping could be my issue.
When this happens to me it’s usually because I’ve forgotten and put down an aoe of the wrong type out of habit before starting in with my weapon or class skills, and are usually automatically working in light attacks out of habit too, so I’ve always thought they just died to the wrong skill.
Or, I’ve wondered if my class skill or weapon skill procced an armor set effect that ended up getting them in the end.
Yeah, there's actually a lot of RNG with the actual "kill" where it can go wrong! Sometimes everything goes perfectly and you're done before you know it.
Other times.... not so much.
a little hint, while you do need the killing blow for it to count for endeavor (for kill X with weapon or class ability), it does count if you kill 1hp critters with those
i personally just port over to the monkey shrine in auridon since theres large numbers of them, but you could really get this done anywhere even on your way to quests or what have you
killing the critters does require a skill that directly targets, a aoe like impulse or cone like jabs will not work on the crittersplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Elvenheart wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »
Is this "kill with class skills" or "kill with weapon skills? I have ongoing issues with these, as my mains (who are the ones doing the endeavors) are all wardens - and it takes me a bit to remember to either summon the bear (if kill with class skills) or dismiss the bear (if kill with weapon skills).
Which is why I generally don't do either of them....
Also dismissing companions seems to help. But yes I notice that even when I am careful to only use weapon skills some of the kills don't count. I have no idea why.
I don't use companions, so that's not it for me. But yes, I do notice that ever if I'm NOT just a space cadet, and even if I "fix" the bear (depending on the actual endeavor), it still doesn't work all the time.... I do have to say though, that my mega ping could be my issue.
When this happens to me it’s usually because I’ve forgotten and put down an aoe of the wrong type out of habit before starting in with my weapon or class skills, and are usually automatically working in light attacks out of habit too, so I’ve always thought they just died to the wrong skill.
Or, I’ve wondered if my class skill or weapon skill procced an armor set effect that ended up getting them in the end.
Yeah, there's actually a lot of RNG with the actual "kill" where it can go wrong! Sometimes everything goes perfectly and you're done before you know it.
Other times.... not so much.
a little hint, while you do need the killing blow for it to count for endeavor (for kill X with weapon or class ability), it does count if you kill 1hp critters with those
i personally just port over to the monkey shrine in auridon since theres large numbers of them, but you could really get this done anywhere even on your way to quests or what have you
killing the critters does require a skill that directly targets, a aoe like impulse or cone like jabs will not work on the critters
Really? Wow. Monkeys here I come. I can use Dive for class then. And just take spells off my bar so I don't accidentally mash buttons when it's weapon skills....
Thanks for the info! That's a real help! How on earth (or Nirn) I've been here this long and didn't know that.... As I said, space cadet!Edited by TaSheen on August 7, 2023 6:07PM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Elvenheart wrote: »MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »
Is this "kill with class skills" or "kill with weapon skills? I have ongoing issues with these, as my mains (who are the ones doing the endeavors) are all wardens - and it takes me a bit to remember to either summon the bear (if kill with class skills) or dismiss the bear (if kill with weapon skills).
Which is why I generally don't do either of them....
Also dismissing companions seems to help. But yes I notice that even when I am careful to only use weapon skills some of the kills don't count. I have no idea why.
I don't use companions, so that's not it for me. But yes, I do notice that ever if I'm NOT just a space cadet, and even if I "fix" the bear (depending on the actual endeavor), it still doesn't work all the time.... I do have to say though, that my mega ping could be my issue.
When this happens to me it’s usually because I’ve forgotten and put down an aoe of the wrong type out of habit before starting in with my weapon or class skills, and are usually automatically working in light attacks out of habit too, so I’ve always thought they just died to the wrong skill.
Or, I’ve wondered if my class skill or weapon skill procced an armor set effect that ended up getting them in the end.
Yeah, there's actually a lot of RNG with the actual "kill" where it can go wrong! Sometimes everything goes perfectly and you're done before you know it.
Other times.... not so much.
a little hint, while you do need the killing blow for it to count for endeavor (for kill X with weapon or class ability), it does count if you kill 1hp critters with those
i personally just port over to the monkey shrine in auridon since theres large numbers of them, but you could really get this done anywhere even on your way to quests or what have you
killing the critters does require a skill that directly targets, a aoe like impulse or cone like jabs will not work on the critters
Really? Wow. Monkeys here I come. I can use Dive for class then. And just take spells off my bar so I don't accidentally mash buttons....
Thanks for the info! That's a real help! How on earth (or Nirn) I've been here this long and didn't know that.... As I said, space cadet!
technically speaking, even killing target dummies in ones house can count for those endeavors, but even the lowest hp ones (300k) still take far longer to kill than most overland mobs, or especially the critters
i like to usually be lazy and use the target dummies for proccing poison though, you can just spam heavy attack on the dummy and it will proc poisons over timeplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Finedaible wrote: »Lets play roulette then. Certainly our odds are good, right?
... Right?
Zenimax is not playing roulette. They would be looking for specific behavior to determine who they banned up front.
They literally stated that they unbanned a ton of people because it was determined they had not met their criteria.
That is not the same as playing Russian roulette. Far from it. They set criteria in their search to grab accounts that might be involved and yes, it grabbed some that were not but had similar behavior. Russian roulette is nothing but a shot in the dark, a completely random gamble which is hardly the case here.
In this analogy, Players are playing roulette with Endeavors now, not ZOS.
The bullet: Is this the glitched Endeavor that, in conjunction with my normal gameplay, makes it look like I exploited if I don't notice?
Now, it sounds like ZOS has increased their threshold for temp bans so they're less likely to ban a whole bunch of people for doing normal gameplay in a major crafting hub...but I cannot blame players for worrying.
Do we know exactly what Zenimax used to target who was caught in the dragnet? Without that information, we can only assume. With that, it can be a fair assessment that some players will think it is like playing Russian roulette but only due to the lack of information. However, it seems, based on Zenimax comments, that they have refined what spurs catching who is exploiting and that it is even rare someone would accidentally trigger the exploit.
We know from past exploits, like the Imperial City exp glitch, that ZOS bans first then reviews accounts to sort out those who were deemed to have actually exploited the situation. Which is exactly what just happened again. Whatever their trigger, they banned first, then reviewed their threshold to decide who got unbanned. (That seals are currency suggests that similar to the IC exp glitch, they looked at the difference between thresholds for an unknown numbers of players who were reasonably farming Tel Var for housing chests vs the 276 players who went all-in on the exp farming. But we don't actually know for sure in this case because ZOS isn't saying.)
This blew over fairly quickly in the IC exploit incident because ZOS actually fixed the problem. So far, ZOS hasn't fixed the Endeavors issue, raising the specter that this could happen again.
Now, ZOS says they've tweaked their parameters so that players shouldn't be triggering either review or discipline accidently.
That's great...if you trust ZOS to get it right.
Fundamentally, this analogy is about trust.
And while it's fantastic that you trust ZOS, you can't make risk-adverse players trust ZOS when their account is on the line. More reassurances by ZOS aren't going to help, not really, not when trust in ZOS is in question. Fixing the bug would.
Ultimately, my feeling is that, eventually, one needs to not care, trust ZOS, or move on to another game. Sure, this bug is out there and is still live, and even rare, players can be come across it. ZOS says that people who do come across it are going to be OK, unless they exploit it "excessively". Players either don't care or just trust ZOS. If they can't do either, then sticking around is just going to be stressful.
You suggest that people would feel better if the bug is fixed, but is that really what would make people feel better? This game is filled with unfixed bugs, and they can introduce new bugs every time they update the game. Their quality control is not sufficient to prevent this. So, if not this bug, then another one.
I maintain that the effective fix for this is to stop doing things the way they are doing it. Just because someone there likes it does not mean it is the best way to do it. Stop with the "catch and release". They need to FULLY investigate issues before they ban ANYONE, then decide who needs to be banned, who needs to be warned, ignore everyone else. They are doing the work, they just need to do it before they charge into the field and start stomping around. No fuss... investigate, then ban. There is no need for unbanning anyone if they do this properly.
If they need to clean up, send a note to the people who were not banned saying that the account needs to be locked due to a bug, lock the accounts as needed, do the work, and unlock the accounts as quickly as they can.
By eliminating all the banning, then unbanning, drama, they remove a large portion of the visible problem. One still needs to trust ZOS, but as this is out of sight for most players, and when it is in sight, it is a "cleanup" rather than a punishment, it won't be so dramatic.
For sure!0 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭All wrongfully banned players should be compensatedI simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn14 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ProfDogWalks
Excellent post. Thank you.
My account was incorrectly banned, and although it has been reinstated, I am still jittery, so much that I have not really done endeavours - and I used to do them religiously every day.
Yesterday I got booted from the game whilst crafting & there was a significant moment of sheer panic until I could log back in again - all was ok, but now every time that happens (& with the game it can happen) it will cause immense stress, and the awful thought that I have been banned again through no fault of my own for just playing the game. It significantly diminishes the fun.
And a guildmate is still not back in. They’ve had the email saying they are ‘unbanned’ but they can’t get back in the game & support is ignoring them.
Bottom line is that this could, and should, have been managed in a much better way.8 -
SDKTJ✭✭✭I’m still banned 😕
@ZOS_Kevin could you check this ticket please
[230805-000750]
I had it for 2.5 days waiting for agent so I updated it today from a friend’s advice. Everyone I know was unbanned fast so I’m very worried 😕
I barely gained endeavours from this, I was just doing daily crafting writs and the endeavour was complete 1 quest. Bad combo. But I didn’t know the only way to stop it was not play the game for a day.
I don’t even want endeavours, a month ago I bought enough crown crates to get the 3600 gem radiant apex. I wasn’t trying to exploit anything - else I would’ve had to gain 10’s of thousands of seals to even buy anything since I already had most unlocks from already buying the crates.
I just want to play the game again. I’ve not had a single issue on my track record in all the years I’ve been playing this so a perma ban is quite drastic when I gained an inconsiderable amount of endeavours 😕
If you want to punish me, well a week long ban was a punishment imo. But you can go further and just wipe the 2000 seals off my account (even though I only gained 200). Even disable earning endeavours on my account entirely if at all possible, because this whole debacle has pretty much made me decide I don’t want to interact with this system again anyways.
Please try help me if it’s possible. I haven’t heard anything from support since I got banned. After playing for years and putting a decent amount of money in this game, I feel like I don’t even exist 😕Edited by SDKTJ on August 7, 2023 10:58PM8 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m still banned 😕
@ZOS_Kevin could you check this ticket please
[230805-000750]
I had it for 2.5 days waiting for agent so I updated it today from a friend’s advice. Everyone I know was unbanned fast so I’m very worried 😕
I barely gained endeavours from this, I was just doing daily crafting writs and the endeavour was complete 1 quest. Bad combo. But I didn’t know the only way to stop it was not play the game for a day.
I don’t even want endeavours, a month ago I bought enough crown crates to get the 3600 gem radiant apex. I wasn’t trying to exploit anything - else I would’ve had to gain 10’s of thousands of seals to even buy anything since I already had most unlocks from already buying the crates.
I just want to play the game again. I’ve not had a single issue on my track record in all the years I’ve been playing this so a perma ban is quite drastic when I gained an inconsiderable amount of endeavours 😕
If you want to punish me, well a week long ban was a punishment imo. But you can go further and just wipe the 2000 seals off my account (even though I only gained 200). Even disable earning endeavours on my account entirely if at all possible, because this whole debacle has pretty much made me decide I don’t want to interact with this system again anyways.
Please try help me if it’s possible. I haven’t heard anything from support since I got banned. After playing for years and putting a decent amount of money in this game, I feel like I don’t even exist 😕
Here's a great example of someone banned for playing the game normally. But don't worry, the exploit is difficult to reproduce and only players that obviously exploited this bug are remaining banned, right?
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster17 -
Paulytnz✭✭✭✭✭I’m still banned 😕
@ZOS_Kevin could you check this ticket please
[230805-000750]
I had it for 2.5 days waiting for agent so I updated it today from a friend’s advice. Everyone I know was unbanned fast so I’m very worried 😕
I barely gained endeavours from this, I was just doing daily crafting writs and the endeavour was complete 1 quest. Bad combo. But I didn’t know the only way to stop it was not play the game for a day.
I don’t even want endeavours, a month ago I bought enough crown crates to get the 3600 gem radiant apex. I wasn’t trying to exploit anything - else I would’ve had to gain 10’s of thousands of seals to even buy anything since I already had most unlocks from already buying the crates.
I just want to play the game again. I’ve not had a single issue on my track record in all the years I’ve been playing this so a perma ban is quite drastic when I gained an inconsiderable amount of endeavours 😕
If you want to punish me, well a week long ban was a punishment imo. But you can go further and just wipe the 2000 seals off my account (even though I only gained 200). Even disable earning endeavours on my account entirely if at all possible, because this whole debacle has pretty much made me decide I don’t want to interact with this system again anyways.
Please try help me if it’s possible. I haven’t heard anything from support since I got banned. After playing for years and putting a decent amount of money in this game, I feel like I don’t even exist 😕
Here's a great example of someone banned for playing the game normally. But don't worry, the exploit is difficult to reproduce and only players that obviously exploited this bug are remaining banned, right?
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.
Yeah, this whole thing is disgusting imo. There is a crown sale around the corner, any day now. I usually buy the 21k crown pack every sale, which is worth about $120 in my currency. The same amount as a full priced game. I doubt I will buy it this time around, over this debacle. It did not hit me, but it did hit some of my guildmates. No apology, no crown sale to me, that's the deal here!
Please support my Quality of Life Suggestions here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/578316/qol-suggestions#latest9 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.
Keep in mind that ZeniMax is based in a country where an apology is often admissible as an admission of legal liability. Their reasons for what they write or don’t write are obviously not all known to us, but it is not a wonder to me that so many people and companies are extremely wary of using apologies for their (important) social purposes, even when sorely warranted, because of that. Some countries explicitly protect apologies; here it is the opposite. It can hurt public relations immensely.3 -
Mik195✭✭✭✭✭I’m still banned 😕
@ZOS_Kevin could you check this ticket please
[230805-000750]
I had it for 2.5 days waiting for agent so I updated it today from a friend’s advice. Everyone I know was unbanned fast so I’m very worried 😕
I barely gained endeavours from this, I was just doing daily crafting writs and the endeavour was complete 1 quest. Bad combo. But I didn’t know the only way to stop it was not play the game for a day.
I don’t even want endeavours, a month ago I bought enough crown crates to get the 3600 gem radiant apex. I wasn’t trying to exploit anything - else I would’ve had to gain 10’s of thousands of seals to even buy anything since I already had most unlocks from already buying the crates.
I just want to play the game again. I’ve not had a single issue on my track record in all the years I’ve been playing this so a perma ban is quite drastic when I gained an inconsiderable amount of endeavours 😕
If you want to punish me, well a week long ban was a punishment imo. But you can go further and just wipe the 2000 seals off my account (even though I only gained 200). Even disable earning endeavours on my account entirely if at all possible, because this whole debacle has pretty much made me decide I don’t want to interact with this system again anyways.
Please try help me if it’s possible. I haven’t heard anything from support since I got banned. After playing for years and putting a decent amount of money in this game, I feel like I don’t even exist 😕
Here's a great example of someone banned for playing the game normally. But don't worry, the exploit is difficult to reproduce and only players that obviously exploited this bug are remaining banned, right?
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.
Yeah, this whole thing is disgusting imo. There is a crown sale around the corner, any day now. I usually buy the 21k crown pack every sale, which is worth about $120 in my currency. The same amount as a full priced game. I doubt I will buy it this time around, over this debacle. It did not hit me, but it did hit some of my guildmates. No apology, no crown sale to me, that's the deal here!
I also tend to buy crown packs when they go on sale, but am now unsure. I wasn't affected by this, but easily see how I could have lost everything in game to a unfair ban.
I'm leveling a crafter. She had all skills at 50 except for provisioning and alchemy and while waiting for my brother, I decided to get those skills to 50 so I could upgrade as I find the skill points. So I ended up making 3000+ level 1 recipes using the create maximum option.
If on this day a provisioning endeavor had bugged out, I likely would have been permanently banned for "exploiting" the fact that I had enough materials in my craft bag to create 5000+ of the recipe I was using.
I would not have noticed because if I saw "completed create 4 provisioning" keep popping up, I would have assumed game was stuck in a loop, restarted, and figured I assumed correctly when nothing wierd happened when I bulk created alchemy potions. How these bans were handled just makes me worry.7 -
Paulytnz✭✭✭✭✭I’m still banned 😕
@ZOS_Kevin could you check this ticket please
[230805-000750]
I had it for 2.5 days waiting for agent so I updated it today from a friend’s advice. Everyone I know was unbanned fast so I’m very worried 😕
I barely gained endeavours from this, I was just doing daily crafting writs and the endeavour was complete 1 quest. Bad combo. But I didn’t know the only way to stop it was not play the game for a day.
I don’t even want endeavours, a month ago I bought enough crown crates to get the 3600 gem radiant apex. I wasn’t trying to exploit anything - else I would’ve had to gain 10’s of thousands of seals to even buy anything since I already had most unlocks from already buying the crates.
I just want to play the game again. I’ve not had a single issue on my track record in all the years I’ve been playing this so a perma ban is quite drastic when I gained an inconsiderable amount of endeavours 😕
If you want to punish me, well a week long ban was a punishment imo. But you can go further and just wipe the 2000 seals off my account (even though I only gained 200). Even disable earning endeavours on my account entirely if at all possible, because this whole debacle has pretty much made me decide I don’t want to interact with this system again anyways.
Please try help me if it’s possible. I haven’t heard anything from support since I got banned. After playing for years and putting a decent amount of money in this game, I feel like I don’t even exist 😕
Here's a great example of someone banned for playing the game normally. But don't worry, the exploit is difficult to reproduce and only players that obviously exploited this bug are remaining banned, right?
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.
Yeah, this whole thing is disgusting imo. There is a crown sale around the corner, any day now. I usually buy the 21k crown pack every sale, which is worth about $120 in my currency. The same amount as a full priced game. I doubt I will buy it this time around, over this debacle. It did not hit me, but it did hit some of my guildmates. No apology, no crown sale to me, that's the deal here!
I also tend to buy crown packs when they go on sale, but am now unsure. I wasn't affected by this, but easily see how I could have lost everything in game to a unfair ban.
I'm leveling a crafter. She had all skills at 50 except for provisioning and alchemy and while waiting for my brother, I decided to get those skills to 50 so I could upgrade as I find the skill points. So I ended up making 3000+ level 1 recipes using the create maximum option.
If on this day a provisioning endeavor had bugged out, I likely would have been permanently banned for "exploiting" the fact that I had enough materials in my craft bag to create 5000+ of the recipe I was using.
I would not have noticed because if I saw "completed create 4 provisioning" keep popping up, I would have assumed game was stuck in a loop, restarted, and figured I assumed correctly when nothing wierd happened when I bulk created alchemy potions. How these bans were handled just makes me worry.
Thank you for your story, I feel the exact same way, I could have easily been hit with this too, it was just dumb luck those who were hit and those who were not. But in the end, it just goes to show we are all at risk in the future.
We need more stories like yours told, so that ZOS (and others) see the kind of damage their current ban/investigate system hits us and also how just the fear of it impacts us as well. Added to that of course the people who WERE hit by it and how they were treated, it's all just "bleh" (for fear of being banned or warned for using any other word lol).Edited by Paulytnz on August 8, 2023 4:28PMPlease support my Quality of Life Suggestions here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/578316/qol-suggestions#latest3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was a bit surprised I was not caught in the initial ban wave once I understood the reason for it. I tend to do endeavors in the morning, unless the easy ones require group activity or PvP and its an PvP run this day.
And I operate out of Rawl'kwa so if Reaper March is an problem zone I would get plenty of resets for later play.
My initial thought was that people was opening the tel-var containers and gaining lots of tel-var outside of IC 😺
Not seen any of my endeavors reset.
But I think it happened once.Edited by zaria on August 8, 2023 6:05PMGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was a bit surprised I was not caught in the initial ban wave once I understood the reason for it. I tend to do endeavors in the morning, unless the easy ones require group activity or PvP and its an PvP run this day.
And I operate out of Rawl'kwa so if Reaper March is an problem zone I would get plenty of resets for later play.
My initial thought was that people was opening the tel-var containers and gaining lots of tel-var outside of IC 😺
Not seen any of my endeavors reset.
But I think it happened once.
this isnt the first event thats given tel var outside of IC
the whitestrake event pelinel boxes also give tel var and can be opened anywhere too, been like that for years now
edit: not to mention even daily login rewards sometimes have tel var tooEdited by Necrotech_Master on August 8, 2023 6:16PMplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Kappachi✭✭✭✭I’m still banned 😕
@ZOS_Kevin could you check this ticket please
[230805-000750]
I had it for 2.5 days waiting for agent so I updated it today from a friend’s advice. Everyone I know was unbanned fast so I’m very worried 😕
I barely gained endeavours from this, I was just doing daily crafting writs and the endeavour was complete 1 quest. Bad combo. But I didn’t know the only way to stop it was not play the game for a day.
I don’t even want endeavours, a month ago I bought enough crown crates to get the 3600 gem radiant apex. I wasn’t trying to exploit anything - else I would’ve had to gain 10’s of thousands of seals to even buy anything since I already had most unlocks from already buying the crates.
I just want to play the game again. I’ve not had a single issue on my track record in all the years I’ve been playing this so a perma ban is quite drastic when I gained an inconsiderable amount of endeavours 😕
If you want to punish me, well a week long ban was a punishment imo. But you can go further and just wipe the 2000 seals off my account (even though I only gained 200). Even disable earning endeavours on my account entirely if at all possible, because this whole debacle has pretty much made me decide I don’t want to interact with this system again anyways.
Please try help me if it’s possible. I haven’t heard anything from support since I got banned. After playing for years and putting a decent amount of money in this game, I feel like I don’t even exist 😕
Here's a great example of someone banned for playing the game normally. But don't worry, the exploit is difficult to reproduce and only players that obviously exploited this bug are remaining banned, right?
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.
It's just word of mouth, we don't know if they were purposely exploiting it. It's up to the reviewers to check if the account exhibited any strange behavior such as right after finding out about the exploit purposely going to the specific region to do the crafting and such. there would be many people who find out about it and try to sneak in a few endeavors, just like any exploit it has to be manually verified.2 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was a bit surprised I was not caught in the initial ban wave once I understood the reason for it. I tend to do endeavors in the morning, unless the easy ones require group activity or PvP and its an PvP run this day.
And I operate out of Rawl'kwa so if Reaper March is an problem zone I would get plenty of resets for later play.
My initial thought was that people was opening the tel-var containers and gaining lots of tel-var outside of IC 😺
Not seen any of my endeavors reset.
But I think it happened once.
I think the initial false ban wave was limited to Playstation EU players. This tells me that the situation there was server side and limited to just that particular server. Nevertheless, looks like a similar bug is on other servers as well.
I monitored my endeavors today, since I played for a long while and was trying to bang out a weekly endeavor. In the course of normal gameplay, collecting surveys and doing writs on 13 characters, as well as Honest Toil on 5 characters, nothing seemed amiss.
Still, if this bug is still out there, I'd rather come across it and know what triggers it than not. I think there may be a way to post up a warning here about it without running afoul of mentioning exploits. That or Kevin comes in and says, "no worries we fixed it totally this time also sorry 4 the bans those affected get 5000 crowns"I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn2 -
Kappachi✭✭✭✭JoeCapricorn wrote: »I was a bit surprised I was not caught in the initial ban wave once I understood the reason for it. I tend to do endeavors in the morning, unless the easy ones require group activity or PvP and its an PvP run this day.
And I operate out of Rawl'kwa so if Reaper March is an problem zone I would get plenty of resets for later play.
My initial thought was that people was opening the tel-var containers and gaining lots of tel-var outside of IC 😺
Not seen any of my endeavors reset.
But I think it happened once.
I think the initial false ban wave was limited to Playstation EU players. This tells me that the situation there was server side and limited to just that particular server. Nevertheless, looks like a similar bug is on other servers as well.
I monitored my endeavors today, since I played for a long while and was trying to bang out a weekly endeavor. In the course of normal gameplay, collecting surveys and doing writs on 13 characters, as well as Honest Toil on 5 characters, nothing seemed amiss.
Still, if this bug is still out there, I'd rather come across it and know what triggers it than not. I think there may be a way to post up a warning here about it without running afoul of mentioning exploits. That or Kevin comes in and says, "no worries we fixed it totally this time also sorry 4 the bans those affected get 5000 crowns"
This is dangerous. if it causes a surge in people who actually try to do it & get away with it then innocent people who accidentally do it during that period will be permabanned as well with no real way to differentiate, you can never make the conditions of an exploit known because of reasons like that.1 -
Centomax23Soul Shriven
Still no apology from zenimax, by the way.
Keep in mind that ZeniMax is based in a country where an apology is often admissible as an admission of legal liability. Their reasons for what they write or don’t write are obviously not all known to us, but it is not a wonder to me that so many people and companies are extremely wary of using apologies for their (important) social purposes, even when sorely warranted, because of that. Some countries explicitly protect apologies; here it is the opposite. It can hurt public relations immensely.
I agree with this comment.
Zenimax is not the only game studio that has not apologized for situations like this, and I honestly doubt it is going to happen for legal reasons, as explained above. While I sympathize with those who got banned, ZOS has already explained that those banned were under investigation for abusing exploits, and those who were not found to have abused exploits were unbanned. This is not an uncommon practice in any way, shape or form.
I also want to turn to the ZOS TOS that states that they are not required to give notice as to the reason that any account is suspended or terminated (Section 14 "TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY ZENIMAX", Paragraph 2). It should/would be implied that this also refers to investigations of the abuse of exploits, of which happened in this case.
While I agree that those who were inconvenienced should be compensated in one way or another, a direct apology is far from expected.2 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wish I had seen this thread earlier . I had not been paying much attention to how many seals I have been collecting. I can't even remember if I completed any daily endeavors today. I will have to try and pay attention to this from here on.2 -
vsrs_au✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Most companies require their customers to agree to some terms of service, but it certainly doesn't make it impossible for that company to make mistakes and sometimes treat their customers badly. On top of this, there are also various national and international consumer-related laws and agreements to consider.[snip]
In short: it's never as simple as "you read the T&Cs, so you consented to whatever treatment you got".
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 11, 2023 6:16PMPC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 39016 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭JoeCapricorn wrote: »I was a bit surprised I was not caught in the initial ban wave once I understood the reason for it. I tend to do endeavors in the morning, unless the easy ones require group activity or PvP and its an PvP run this day.
And I operate out of Rawl'kwa so if Reaper March is an problem zone I would get plenty of resets for later play.
My initial thought was that people was opening the tel-var containers and gaining lots of tel-var outside of IC 😺
Not seen any of my endeavors reset.
But I think it happened once.
I think the initial false ban wave was limited to Playstation EU players. This tells me that the situation there was server side and limited to just that particular server. Nevertheless, looks like a similar bug is on other servers as well.
I monitored my endeavors today, since I played for a long while and was trying to bang out a weekly endeavor. In the course of normal gameplay, collecting surveys and doing writs on 13 characters, as well as Honest Toil on 5 characters, nothing seemed amiss.
Still, if this bug is still out there, I'd rather come across it and know what triggers it than not. I think there may be a way to post up a warning here about it without running afoul of mentioning exploits. That or Kevin comes in and says, "no worries we fixed it totally this time also sorry 4 the bans those affected get 5000 crowns"
This is dangerous. if it causes a surge in people who actually try to do it & get away with it then innocent people who accidentally do it during that period will be permabanned as well with no real way to differentiate, you can never make the conditions of an exploit known because of reasons like that.
You have a good point. I would not have been providing explicit instructions, but I suppose even an "avoid this for the time being" etc, might lead to nefarious actors prodding every inch of that statement.
The fact that in my course of play it doesn't seem to have been triggered is also encouraging. That means Kevin is right about it being rare. It seems the PS EU false ban-wave occurred because of the bug coinciding with an endeavor involving daily writs.
If such a bug occurs again, on a different server, and it's the same kind of perfect storm of involving a popular writ city (Rawl'kha, Alinor, Vivec, Deshaan, Leyawiin, etc), there's going to be another spike of people getting extra endeavors regardless of whether someone comes on here with the intent of providing a warning or not.
That's a valid concern, because if endeavors change every day and so on, the conditions favorable to the bug happening might also change. If it's a particular endeavor condition that was taken out of the loop to be 'serviced' before being put back in rotation, perhaps we have nothing to worry about.
Here's a hypothetical: But what if in the course of setting up a weekly endeavor, a typo results in 10,000 of the seals being granted? People see that, get excited and think it is real, rush to do the things the weekly endeavors involve (if one of those were harvest 100 nodes, that is one I can do in 10 minutes; the 7 Public Dungeon Group Event one is around 35 minutes camped out at my chosen spot), so a bunch of people get 10,000 seals that the game is telling them is a legit haul for Seals of Endeavor. What would happen to those players? Should anything happen to those players?
Here's my view: Nothing happens to the players. The easiest solution is to just hotfix the issue, or take the Endeavor system offline for a bit. The endeavors might be removed from the accounts of players that completed the weekly before the hotfix, but no ban. Because it is not the player's fault.I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn2 -
vsrs_au✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why would anyone think that getting 10,000 seals from an endeavour is real? ZOS would definitely advertise something like that beforehand. If I ever got that many seals from an endeavour, I'd immediately raise a support ticket to ZOS to tell them to remove those erroneous seals, because it's literally too good to be true.PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 3902 -
they should not exploit
They should not use this bug. Fixed your typo.Edited by eternalshockcable on August 9, 2023 7:10PMDear Community/Followers,
I want to address recent concerns regarding allegations of inappropriate direct messages and supposed cheating. First and foremost, I want to clarify that I do not admit to any wrongdoing. However, I understand that my actions may have been perceived in a way that caused concern.
As many of you know, I am a disabled veteran who served in Iraq, and I am permanently and totally mentally disabled. My PTSD, which was formally diagnosed in 2013 after being reclassified in the DSM-5, has affected me in ways that are difficult to fully explain. While this is not an excuse, it has, at times, clouded my judgment and impacted my behavior. This condition is something I have lived with for a long time, and it is a daily challenge.
As an influencer, streamer, and game reviewer with over 300 reviews, 800 followers on Twitch, and 1,600 followers on TikTok, I understand the responsibility that comes with my platform. Our role as influencers is to set a positive example, and I want to make it clear that I do not condone actions that go against the Terms of Service (TOS) or End User License Agreements (EULA) of any platform or community. Even though societal norms have evolved, and what was once deemed acceptable behavior in the past is no longer appropriate, I am committed to adapting and ensuring that my actions reflect the values we strive for today.
I want to go forward with a commitment to better representing the disabled members of our community. I recognize that I may never fully "fit in" or be "normal," but I am dedicated to improving and learning from these experiences. It is crucial that we have more flexibility and better support services for disabled veterans like myself, so we can remain active members of our communities without being unfairly limited by our disabilities. These services would help ensure that we can make better decisions and avoid situations like this in the future.
Thank you for your understanding, and I am grateful for the continued support of this community as I work to become a better version of myself.
Sincerely,
theshockcable0 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[snip]
In some countries, having agreed with the ToS doesn't prevent a person from challenging it in court, especially if it's considered the terms are against consumer laws or consumer-related jurisprudence. Having said that, I must agree with SerafinaWaterstar in not seeing what your point is.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 11, 2023 6:17PMImperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)7
