Are we going to see Necromancer get the Arcanist treatment?

Twohothardware

The Arcanist class has been a big hit with new Arcanist players everywhere you look. Meanwhile other paid DLC classes like Necromancer go heavily underplayed because they just don't bring much to the table and the class skills are very clunky compared to the ease of use you see with Arcanist.

I really like Necromancer but the class skills need an overhaul. The damage of the class skills with recent buffs is good but main spammables like Ricochet Skull need a faster cast and Blastbones needs improved tracking or a change in how it works. The Skeletal Mage needs more damage and the Spirit Mender needs to be buffed back in health because it dies too quickly.

There are a number of other gripes people have with Necromancer and there's been a ton of discussion recently on the forum.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/634688/necromancer-a-heavily-neglected-class#latest

Hopefully the dev team is looking at the success of the new Arcanist class and looking for ways to pass that down to Necro and even Warden.

IncultaWolf

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

LordTareq

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

CameraBeardThePirate

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

Necro wasnt overpowered at release, it was a buggy mess. Do people not remember that they had to take the tethers off the GCD? That blastbones was completely dysfunctional in most content? The only thing remotely close to OP necro had at launch was bashcro and it lasted all of 1 patch

Utt of the Freezing Tomb

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

arcanist balanced?
beam is balanced?
thoses shield + extra op heal are balanced?
unbreakable charm is balanced?

Twohothardware

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638262/which-class-do-you-think-is-the-weakest-at-that-moment-pve-wise#latest

Necro getting the most votes for currently weakest PvE class.

Utt of the Freezing Tomb

Twohothardware wrote: »

The Arcanist class has been a big hit with new Arcanist players everywhere you look. Meanwhile other paid DLC classes like Necromancer go heavily underplayed because they just don't bring much to the table and the class skills are very clunky compared to the ease of use you see with Arcanist.

I really like Necromancer but the class skills need an overhaul. The damage of the class skills with recent buffs is good but main spammables like Ricochet Skull need a faster cast and Blastbones needs improved tracking or a change in how it works. The Skeletal Mage needs more damage and the Spirit Mender needs to be buffed back in health because it dies too quickly.

There are a number of other gripes people have with Necromancer and there's been a ton of discussion recently on the forum.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/634688/necromancer-a-heavily-neglected-class#latest

Hopefully the dev team is looking at the success of the new Arcanist class and looking for ways to pass that down to Necro and even Warden.

its so painfull to see my class destroyed like that yeah

SandandStars

I don’t think so.

There’s no incentive for them to work on bringing up Necro or balancing classes.

It seems like most customers enjoy playing an OP class.

Twohothardware

SandandStars wrote: »

I don’t think so.

There’s no incentive for them to work on bringing up Necro or balancing classes.

It seems like most customers enjoy playing an OP class.

Necromancer is a still a class you have to buy in the crown store. They have incentive to improve it more than other classes.

Dagoth_Rac

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

Necro wasnt overpowered at release, it was a buggy mess. Do people not remember that they had to take the tethers off the GCD? That blastbones was completely dysfunctional in most content? The only thing remotely close to OP necro had at launch was bashcro and it lasted all of 1 patch

Weren't Trials pretty much all Necro for a long time after launch? Major Vulnerability increased damage by 30% at the time and only Necro ultimate could provide that buff. So having as many Necros as possible to keep that buff up 100% of the time was the highest DPS group setup and nothing came close.

OtarTheMad

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

While I agree that Arcanist is quite balanced. Great tanking, okay offensive and passable healing. Arcanist beam is very, very dodgeable but yes does hit hard, same with the watcher ult. Shields can be OP but they aren’t up forever and you can stun, knock back etc to get them to stop casting. As for charm/“that” stun well it’s strong but breakable. Just seems OP af because of Cyrodiil skill delay and lag. All stuns suck ass in Cyrodiil tho for that reason.

Necro was not OP when it hit live, at all. It was a gigantic mess but scoreboard pushers and endgamers sucked it up because Major Vulnerability was OP, the class itself blew chunks and still does. ZOS could have put that debuff on a bloom handle and players doing trials would have all used it. Had little to do with Necromancer.

KS_Amt38

Yeah Arcanist is "balanced"

OtarTheMad

KS_Amt38 wrote: »

Yeah Arcanist is "balanced"

That’s just one part of a very big game. You look at Arcanist in other places like duels, Cyrodiil, BGs and you will see that they have some big negatives. End game players will always use whatever in order to get faster times or higher numbers. Need to take all modes when looking at class balance.

That’s what screwed necro over in the first place, that one trial where Major Vulnerability got you a better score so players stacked Necros. End game players have even said necro sucked and it was just because of the debuff and it pretty much had 100% uptime.

Twohothardware

OtarTheMad wrote: »

KS_Amt38 wrote: »

Yeah Arcanist is "balanced"

That’s just one part of a very big game. You look at Arcanist in other places like duels, Cyrodiil, BGs and you will see that they have some big negatives. End game players will always use whatever in order to get faster times or higher numbers. Need to take all modes when looking at class balance.

That’s what screwed necro over in the first place, that one trial where Major Vulnerability got you a better score so players stacked Necros. End game players have even said necro sucked and it was just because of the debuff and it pretty much had 100% uptime.

I don't see any big negatives to playing Arcanist in PvP. They have one of the strongest shields in the game, and ult that lets you tank a zerg, and have a lot of penetration which is the most important stat for damage in PvP.

OtarTheMad

Twohothardware wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

KS_Amt38 wrote: »

Yeah Arcanist is "balanced"

That’s just one part of a very big game. You look at Arcanist in other places like duels, Cyrodiil, BGs and you will see that they have some big negatives. End game players will always use whatever in order to get faster times or higher numbers. Need to take all modes when looking at class balance.

That’s what screwed necro over in the first place, that one trial where Major Vulnerability got you a better score so players stacked Necros. End game players have even said necro sucked and it was just because of the debuff and it pretty much had 100% uptime.

I don't see any big negatives to playing Arcanist in PvP. They have one of the strongest shields in the game, and ult that lets you tank a zerg, and have a lot of penetration which is the most important stat for damage in PvP.

- Runeblades and pretty much all Arcanist abilities, only have a range of 22m which means all someone has to do is get further away from an Arcanist like using a knock back, and the enemy has a huge advantage. The Arcanist can use the other spammables that have longer range but then you lose some key crux generators which the class relies on now more than ever after the Crux change. Arcanist can pretty much only light and heavy attack when on keep walls and roofs because of this.
- Fatecarver, while hard-hitting for sure, the fact that you have to aim it makes it extremely dodgeable even with aim assist on. Plus, the bonuses you get from that one morph (Pragmatic) are okay but you can still interrupt or stop the Arcanist from using the ability so it leaves the Arcanist vulnerable. I've had NPC's stun me, knock me off balance, and interrupt me using Fatecarver and I have done the same to some Arcanist on my characters in PvP.
- Fulminating Rune and its morphs are really only a BG, dueling, or PvE ability which is fine because it works really well in those modes but not really Cyrodiil so much
- Watcher ult- Same as Fatecarver really. With skill delay and lag and the abilities targetting this ability is extremely dodgeable but if you happen to get cornered or in a choke point... you're screwed. I've had no issues getting away from this in PvP and healing up.
- The stun is strong as heck but breakable... only danger here is just like other stuns and that's lag and skill delay in Cyrodiil. Bonus though, some of the positions you can get stuck in is hilarious.
- Runemend, as a burst heal it isn't great because there is a slight delay between casting it and when the first heal hits you... and even then it's not the full heal so you have to cast it a few times which is very expensive. The heal is split up into 3 bursts, which means damage can easily counter the healing.
- The shield ult and other shield abilities, well most of us are used to Sorcs at this point so this isn't a huge deal because you can just wait for the shield to end... stun them and then burst the Arcanist down. Shield Break set, oblivion damage and Bastion CP are your friend.
- Tentacles- With this one, one morph has a weak execute and the damage for both is just okay. It does immobilize you and gets that ink debuff on you which combined with the stun and Fatecarver can mess you up but survive that with a dodge or great healing and you can burst the Arcanist down.
- Runespite Ward- the heal from this requires Crux which needs to be constantly degenerated to work
- Glyphic ult- More of a group ult than anything else so solo players won't benefit from this ultimate very much. If you are in a BG as well where people don't stick together, the same thing.
- Chakram heal is below average and you would need to combo it with Vigor or another HoT to be effective.
- Gate- It's a fun ability but buggy so it cannot be relied on in Cyrodiil.

And those are just the ones I can think of. The funny thing is, despite the negatives, so far the class is still super fun to play. I haven't done Cyrodiil with it yet though, just fought some Arcanist.

merpins

Utt of the Freezing Tomb wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

arcanist balanced?
beam is balanced?
thoses shield + extra op heal are balanced?
unbreakable charm is balanced?

Arcanist DPS is pretty balanced. Beam does good damage, but it's pretty useless in PVP, and in PVE, your DPS drops like a rock a lot of the time from anything that so much as sneezes you into unbalanced. Against the trial dummy, its damage is pretty inflated, but even that is about where other top-end DPS' are damage wise, and it's lower than what the dummy shows as I mentioned. That doesn't change the fact that ZoS really pays attention to dummy parse numbers when it comes to balancing, so Arcanist might get an unnecessary nerf that will kill the class, since it really doesn't have an alternative DPS playstyle.

The support, tanking, and healing on the other hand are pretty overtuned and will probably be nerfed.

SandandStars

Arcanist is 100 nails in the coffin of Magsorc.

Effective Shields… check
Effective no pet heal… check
Ranged execute that does actual execute level damage… check

They are so done with magsorc (pvp)

ll_Rev

merpins wrote: »

Utt of the Freezing Tomb wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

arcanist balanced?
beam is balanced?
thoses shield + extra op heal are balanced?
unbreakable charm is balanced?

Arcanist DPS is pretty balanced. Beam does good damage, but it's pretty useless in PVP, and in PVE, your DPS drops like a rock a lot of the time from anything that so much as sneezes you into unbalanced. Against the trial dummy, its damage is pretty inflated, but even that is about where other top-end DPS' are damage wise, and it's lower than what the dummy shows as I mentioned. That doesn't change the fact that ZoS really pays attention to dummy parse numbers when it comes to balancing, so Arcanist might get an unnecessary nerf that will kill the class, since it really doesn't have an alternative DPS playstyle.

The support, tanking, and healing on the other hand are pretty overtuned and will probably be nerfed.

this isn't true, arcanist is pretty much at the top of every trial on eso logs dps wise they are one of the best if not the best damage dealers in the game. The only thing that can even really compete is Dk.

Zastrix

Lmao a balanced arcanist in PvE? Yeah, no xD

One of the most overperforming classes alongside DKs. Having a lot of damage and then a beam which makes it aoe as well? Yeah totally balanced /s

CameraBeardThePirate

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

More like, are we going to see arcanist get the necromancer treatment several months from now? Heavy nerfs after the class has been out long enough

Difference is the necromancer was incredibly overpowered right after release and for some time after. Arcanist is quite balanced.

Necro wasnt overpowered at release, it was a buggy mess. Do people not remember that they had to take the tethers off the GCD? That blastbones was completely dysfunctional in most content? The only thing remotely close to OP necro had at launch was bashcro and it lasted all of 1 patch

Weren't Trials pretty much all Necro for a long time after launch? Major Vulnerability increased damage by 30% at the time and only Necro ultimate could provide that buff. So having as many Necros as possible to keep that buff up 100% of the time was the highest DPS group setup and nothing came close.

Sure, but that was moreso a factor of Major Vulnerability being overtuned. It doesn't change the fact that, at launch, a good chunk of the Necromancer skills weren't functional.