Necromancer, a heavily neglected class

techprince

1. Has no Major Brutality/Sorcery/Savagery/Prophecy buffs. Potential abilities for the said effects: Bone Armor/Skeletal Mage/Spirit Mender
2. Has no Gap Closers, no speed buffs. Potential abilities for the said effects: Expunge/Bitter Harvest
3. Has no snare and immobilisation removal or immunity skill. Potential abilities for the said effects: Expunge/Bitter Harvest
4. Has no dedicated execute. The passive Death Kneel only activates at 25% which is practically useless in PvP as none of the Grave Lord abilities are useful in PvP. Potential abilities for the said effects: Death Scythe. Convert Shock Clench into an execute.
5. Has no instant CC. Ground CCs are extremely slow. The totem is also bugged and fears only on 2nd tick i.e. after 4 seconds. Increase the animation speed of Grave Grasp and Allow Agony Totem to instantly fear.
6. Single target spammable has the slowest projectile speed. Increase the projectile speed of Flame Skull and morphs. Attach some status effects other than just damage increase.
7. Major Vulnerability and Empower were given to others via items and sets. So the class no longer has anything unique to offer to the group. Allow Skeletal Mage to apply Minor Vulnerability on the target OR increase the duration of Minor Vulnerability from the synergy of Agony Totem to 15-16 seconds. Allow Empowering Grasp to apply Minor Courage to the Allies and Ghostly Embrace to apply Minor Cowardice/Minor Brittle to the enemies. Separate these two morphs, and shift all negative effects from Empowering Grasp to Ghostly Embrace. One for allies, one for enemies.
8. Spirit Guardian dies too early. Its health has been reduced significantly. Buff its health back to some decent amount.
9. Blastbones can no longer chase targets effectively as their movement speed is low and pathing is terrible. Increase the movement speed of blastbones, fix its AI pathing.
10. And the list goes on.

This may not affect PvE or Stamina Necromancers as much but what about Magicka Necromancers?

Edit: Added some potential solutions.

Heartrage

It probably could get tuned up a little. However, I think grave grasp is a pretty fast CC considering how big the area is.

phaneub17_ESO

They even skipped the Necromancer companion, it's that terrible!

EramTheLiar

Mechanically the necromancer would be tricky because so many necro skills are criminal acts. A player can choose not to use them in certain locations but I doubt a companion could do that reliably.

Remiem

Heartrage wrote: »

However, I think grave grasp is a pretty fast CC considering how big the area is.

It's straight up unusable in both PvE and PvP, only the last patch does anything of value so the area is actually pretty small, it takes 1 second to deploy and has an awkward range.
Empowering grasp used to be on necro PvE healers' bars but since the empower change to affect only heavy attacks, it's as useless as ghostly embrace because most heavy attack builds already get it from oakensoul.

LunaFlora

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

They even skipped the Necromancer companion, it's that terrible!

they'll probably do a necromancer companion next year. it makes lots of sense to have an arcanist companion for the new class

OtarTheMad

It’s almost like ZOS is trying to be funny with the class by letting it die so they can “necro” it later and write a funny comment in patch notes about it.

I see you ZOS

Jestir

While blastbones looks great and makes their rotations, it's just such a buggy unresponsive mess far too often

I don't think I have have smashed a button so fast and much since mario party GC games that were trying to get you to destroy a controller

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

CameraBeardThePirate

The list goes on. Various bugs plague the class. Mechanics that should be standardized across the game have exceptions for the necro.

1) Pet damage and healing doesn't count for BG Scoreboards. Blastbones and Intensive Mender do a lot of damage and healing respectively, and both are completely invisible on BG scoreboards.

2) Pets cannot be commanded with the command pet keybind. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to tell my Skeletal Arcanist/Archer whom they should be attacking. Despite the skill description saying "the closest opponent", the skeletons will often attack a target you aren't trying to focus, or worse still, won't attack anyone at all. The Blastbones summoned from the Animate Blastbones ultimate are the worst offenders. Without hyperbole, these dummies will expire without leaping anyone ~40% of the time. Either allow the Command Pet keybind to work with Necro pets or have necro pets attack people that you Heavy Attack.

3) Corpse Consumption abilities are incredibly buggy (especially in PvP). One would assume that killing an enemy player would give you a nice juicy corpse, but if that player immediately respawns or releases, their corpse disappears. Corpses generated by Necro abilities should last longer to ease up on micro-managey gameplay. The Animate Blastbones ultimate doesn't even count as a corpse consumption ability like it should, which means unless you have a second Corpse Consumption ability slotted, you won't even be able to see the corpses you need to cast the ult on. This is easier said than done when considering that Necro needs to waste skill slots on buffs that aren't included in their class kit.

4) Despite having an extra DoT damage passive, the class has exactly 2 DoTs, both of which are AOE Ground DoTs and are therefore limited in use for PvP environments or more mobile PvE fights. The Skeletal Archer/Arcanist don't count as DoTs (even though they probably should) and are therefore not buffed by Rapid Rot. Despite this, they were stealth nerfed by 50% along with the blanket DoT nerfs ~U35 (don't remember the exact update).

phaneub17_ESO

LunaFlora wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

They even skipped the Necromancer companion, it's that terrible!

they'll probably do a necromancer companion next year. it makes lots of sense to have an arcanist companion for the new class

The way I see it is they can't decide how to make the necromancer companion. Pets shouldn't summon other pets so their version of Blastbones, Mage, and Spirit is out. They shouldn't benefit or impede any one class more than others, so no generating or consuming of corpses. This leaves them with very few possible abilities, at most 6 of their core class abilities so they would be down 1 per skill line. Death Scythe, Bone Armor, Flame Skull, Boneyard, Render Flesh, and Life Amid Death would be their definitive skill set.

I assume they would combine necromancer companion with something like vampire so they could fill in the missing 3 abilities with Eviscerate, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize; may also end up using the vampire ultimate Blood Scion.

EramTheLiar

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

They even skipped the Necromancer companion, it's that terrible!

they'll probably do a necromancer companion next year. it makes lots of sense to have an arcanist companion for the new class

The way I see it is they can't decide how to make the necromancer companion. Pets shouldn't summon other pets so their version of Blastbones, Mage, and Spirit is out. They shouldn't benefit or impede any one class more than others, so no generating or consuming of corpses. This leaves them with very few possible abilities, at most 6 of their core class abilities so they would be down 1 per skill line. Death Scythe, Bone Armor, Flame Skull, Boneyard, Render Flesh, and Life Amid Death would be their definitive skill set.

I assume they would combine necromancer companion with something like vampire so they could fill in the missing 3 abilities with Eviscerate, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize; may also end up using the vampire ultimate Blood Scion.

Vampire has exactly the same issues Necromancer does - most abilities are criminal acts. I think the only ones that aren't are Eviscerate and Mesmerize.

The problem is that the NPC is _guaranteed_ to set off the law in certain parts of certain zones where combat takes place. I.e., in Bangkorai at that palisade with Covenant on one side and Reachmen on the other. I've been careless with my necro and used blastbones too close to that spot and *boom*, I've got a bounty. An NPC wouldn't even have the excuse "I got careless."

El_Borracho

Heartrage wrote: »

It probably could get tuned up a little. However, I think grave grasp is a pretty fast CC considering how big the area is.

Love Grave Grasp. The size and ability to aim it is unparalleled.

The primary issue with Necro has always been Blastbones. The cast time is annoying, but then to double down with the wonky targeting makes the skill very frustrating, especially as everything is centered on Blastbones. 2.5 seconds is a long time. Even if they made it one second it would improve it immensely.

My main complaint with Necro is the tether. I wish that thing would be automatic upon creating a corpse or at least like Repentance, where you hit the skill and it automatically pulls from the corpses. The targeting of the tether is beyond annoying.

YandereGirlfriend

Can we also talk about the underwhelming synergy on Bone Totem, Pure Agony?

A weak DOT and Minor Vulnerability? Really? That's the best that we can do? A DOT synergy is and will continue to be completely useless in PvP where burst damage is basically the only damage that matters. And Minor Vulnerability is a dime a dozen these days, plus it isn't very strong to begin with. It would be slightly better if Pure Agony were another self-synergy, but unfortunately it isn't.

Also, Stalking Blastbones continues to be broken with no fix seemingly on the radar at ZOS. Like actually. Can we please get this fixed???

El_Borracho

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Also, Stalking Blastbones continues to be broken with no fix seemingly on the radar at ZOS. Like actually. Can we please get this fixed???

It is a pointless skill at this point unless you are aiming Blastbones at a group. Stalking Blastbones + the 2.5 second delay + targeting in PVP = LOL.

techprince

Blastbones AI is horrendous now.

phaneub17_ESO

EramTheLiar wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

They even skipped the Necromancer companion, it's that terrible!

they'll probably do a necromancer companion next year. it makes lots of sense to have an arcanist companion for the new class

The way I see it is they can't decide how to make the necromancer companion. Pets shouldn't summon other pets so their version of Blastbones, Mage, and Spirit is out. They shouldn't benefit or impede any one class more than others, so no generating or consuming of corpses. This leaves them with very few possible abilities, at most 6 of their core class abilities so they would be down 1 per skill line. Death Scythe, Bone Armor, Flame Skull, Boneyard, Render Flesh, and Life Amid Death would be their definitive skill set.

I assume they would combine necromancer companion with something like vampire so they could fill in the missing 3 abilities with Eviscerate, Vampiric Drain, and Mesmerize; may also end up using the vampire ultimate Blood Scion.

Vampire has exactly the same issues Necromancer does - most abilities are criminal acts. I think the only ones that aren't are Eviscerate and Mesmerize.

The problem is that the NPC is _guaranteed_ to set off the law in certain parts of certain zones where combat takes place. I.e., in Bangkorai at that palisade with Covenant on one side and Reachmen on the other. I've been careless with my necro and used blastbones too close to that spot and *boom*, I've got a bounty. An NPC wouldn't even have the excuse "I got careless."

For a necromancer companion, that's an easy fix. They turn the flags off.

GrimStyx

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The list goes on. Various bugs plague the class. Mechanics that should be standardized across the game have exceptions for the necro.

1) Pet damage and healing doesn't count for BG Scoreboards. Blastbones and Intensive Mender do a lot of damage and healing respectively, and both are completely invisible on BG scoreboards.

2) Pets cannot be commanded with the command pet keybind. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to tell my Skeletal Arcanist/Archer whom they should be attacking. Despite the skill description saying "the closest opponent", the skeletons will often attack a target you aren't trying to focus, or worse still, won't attack anyone at all. The Blastbones summoned from the Animate Blastbones ultimate are the worst offenders. Without hyperbole, these dummies will expire without leaping anyone ~40% of the time. Either allow the Command Pet keybind to work with Necro pets or have necro pets attack people that you Heavy Attack.

3) Corpse Consumption abilities are incredibly buggy (especially in PvP). One would assume that killing an enemy player would give you a nice juicy corpse, but if that player immediately respawns or releases, their corpse disappears. Corpses generated by Necro abilities should last longer to ease up on micro-managey gameplay. The Animate Blastbones ultimate doesn't even count as a corpse consumption ability like it should, which means unless you have a second Corpse Consumption ability slotted, you won't even be able to see the corpses you need to cast the ult on. This is easier said than done when considering that Necro needs to waste skill slots on buffs that aren't included in their class kit.

4) Despite having an extra DoT damage passive, the class has exactly 2 DoTs, both of which are AOE Ground DoTs and are therefore limited in use for PvP environments or more mobile PvE fights. The Skeletal Archer/Arcanist don't count as DoTs (even though they probably should) and are therefore not buffed by Rapid Rot. Despite this, they were stealth nerfed by 50% along with the blanket DoT nerfs ~U35 (don't remember the exact update).

in pvp, skeletons are practically useless, if they could hang a major breach, when attacking, this could improve the situation a little, but still, his abilities remain the weakest with disgusting synergy, against the background of weapon branches, even a spam ability, in Shocking Siphon it’s generally impossible to hold onto the target, especially in pvp, where everything is too dynamic, maybe even somewhere in pve he’s useless, plus, the necro lacks class buffs. As a result, we have the weakest class, with a disgusting synergy of skills and passive bonuses, the weakest pseudo pets (ult colossus is my "respect", it's not even a pseudo pet, but just a visual of the ult xD) moreover, since players have to compensate for the weakness of class abilities with other branches, then in fact, not even the best class passives become unrealizable, which really makes this class complete garbage

NordSwordnBoard

Voriak Solkyn throws skulls that do a knockback, we throw ours so slow I'm surprised they don't drop out of the air from depression. Blastbones randomly just give up on life a second time. The scythe should have a damage and a healing morph, and excel at one or the other instead of being ok at both.

GrimStyx

about Shocking Siphon, there is one good idea, instead of a 20 second duration, make a 3 second duration, which with each tick would deal about approximately and relative to the average damage of the player 3-4 thousand damage, in 0.5 seconds, towards the end, the beam would become brighter, accumulating energy, and would discharge with damage of 6 thousand , this would allow for complex burst combinations along with blastbones, siphon and spam, and also, would improve the mechanics of interaction with corpses, and would allow at least somehow to implement a normal class passive on the dot

techprince

They have nerfed blastbones over time. They have reduced its movement speed and LOS.

YandereGirlfriend

techprince wrote: »

They have nerfed blastbones over time. They have reduced its movement speed and LOS.

Indeed.

Another annoying feature is simply that the Blastbones can be CC'd at all. Like, why is this a thing? You can't Stun a Warden Shalk or a Sorcerer Crystal Frag.

But if you're in a BG or Cyrodiil and your Blastbones gets caught in a random Bombard or something... it's just a wasted cast because it will decompose before ever hitting anything.

Necro has to deal with TONS of these sort of micro-nerfs but they all sum back up to weight down the class.

boi_anachronism_

Talking to a friend about this last night. For trials necros are pretty much relegated to off tank or support like wc. It could really use help to make it viable as a dps class. Just my opinion

LukosCreyden

Necromancer requires a rework to get it to a functional state. It just has so much wrong with it.
I hated abandoning my necro, as it was my main and I was one of the people begging for a necromancer class. I just cannot justify playing a class that barely functions and is lacking in so many areas. Outside of pretty colours for the visuals (and they ARE genuinely beautiful colours), what does necromancer have? Clunkiness and semi-functional skills. How long has it been since it released?
How is it still in such a poor state?

danno8

Four days into this thread and no one mentions that "neglated" isn't a word?

LukosCreyden

@danno8 I think everyone just kinda assumes the obvious and thinks that it is a weird typo.

Mesite

I was quite enjoying playing my necro until I read these comments. One thing I don't like about ESO staff is you can't hit anyone with it when you are close up. With the scythe I feel I can contribute with a bit of melee. Again, that's a visual thing rather than a solution to the problems.

techprince

danno8 wrote: »

Four days into this thread and no one mentions that "neglated" isn't a word?

THAT got your attention and not the post?

phaneub17_ESO

danno8 wrote: »

Four days into this thread and no one mentions that "neglated" isn't a word?

Very astoodled.

danno8

techprince wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Four days into this thread and no one mentions that "neglated" isn't a word?

THAT got your attention and not the post?

Well Necro and Templar neglect threads are pretty common these days.:)

NordSwordnBoard

I assumed "neglated" meant neglected, and a sorc negated you as well so you were silenced to dev ears. Or was that deaf ears?