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Tri Focus Lightning Staff over nerf
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UsualSurrender✭✭✭[/quote]
So “oh no” this build was overperforming. This mid tier build that people actually liked doing, that did not conform to the standard eso combat that is wildly unpopular (even among people who are current players), was doing far too much damage. Yes, enjoyment must be squashed, so that players that cling to the old ways of combat can feel extra better about themselves in their already superior two bar builds. [/quote]
Yes HA builds were overperforming as their AoE damage was even greater than 2-bars builds that specialize in AoE and have to sacrifice ST and/or sustain for it.
No enjoyment is being squashed, you guys are absolutely losing it for a nerf to splash damage.
You have been given a tool that allows you to complete the hardest content in the whole game by simply holding 1 click button, with absolutely 0 resource management, thus avoiding the whole core of ESO combat that you despise so much.
A tiny nerf to a tiny aspect of combat (splash damage) that you can still counter or even choose to ignore, as nobody will kick you out a group for being a mostly Single-Target damage dealer in a vet Trial.
You can still clear the whole game with 0 effort, there is absolutely no reason for so many tears.
That's just insanity.Edited by UsualSurrender on August 16, 2023 9:14AM11 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭I've read a lot of other threads, in spite of the pleading its not pvp, in my mind there are 2 big reasons:
1/ someone died in pvp from splash damage and went back crying to mommy
2/ Necrom/Arcanist is massively underselling
I will never buy necrom + will unsub eso+ once u39 goes live.
Zenny - you are giving a big 'scroo you' to a large group of players because a few ppl cried they died in pvp + $$$
8 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »This is a very cynical move by moneymax.. I will *never* buy necrom, and soon cancel eso+ I will continue to play for free since i have invested thousands of dollars and hours into eso.
Even a reduced value of splash damage may have been palatable, but not a complete hammer.
It is just a reduced cleave though - it's not like they're removing the cleave outright. The final tick still does cleave and the final tick is the most damaging by far.
It’s only a nerf to cleave…
It’s only a nerf to Storm Master…
It’s only a nerf to empower…
Cool, and every single one of those things was overperforming.
What's more is none of those nerfs have changed what is achievable with a heavy attack build.
We can say the same exact thing for U35 and and that did not stop the forum freak out over it. Maybe we should have should just have added a rather flippant “cool” and everyone would have just accepted it and moved on.
And “overperforming”? That is a meaningless term. It’s so subjective and is just the go to phrase used by people justifying nerfs for other players.
Daggers are overperforming…
Necros are overperforming…
Everyone doing over 100k dps are overperforming…
A meaningless subjective argument.
Players using “classic” HA builds have no fall back. They have no real alternative build they can turn to. And you are telling them their already 2nd tier build is overperforming? All you are doing is just pushing them away.
I guess we can have less people doing endgame, less reason to improve its budget, or even have less reason to sustain the current budget for it. Is that “cool”?
•••
And since the post is pretty long already I might as well go on a bit of a rant.
Why the HA build is important is because it fixes a fundamental flaw in eso. And that is the combat system in ESO is terrible. It is the biggest complaint about eso.
If people outside of these forums ever talk about the game, the number one complaint is its combat system.
Look at the thread on mmo-champ:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1743103-Megathread-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Tamriel-Unlimited/page213
“I've been playing all this time and will continue to play for a while yet,for a variety of reasons, but its in spite of the combat this game has…”
“is worth pointing out that it's more than animation cancelling, it's kind of the whole package. it just feels bad.”
“Combat still sucks, but I'm back and playing and still haven't the foggiest clue how to weave.”
Three different players, all complaining about the combat system. And best defense someone can come up with is that they don’t have to do it for overland questing.
The hA build broke away from that, the whole bar swapping, weaving #%€! Is not fun. Nor does it feel appropriate for a fantasy game much less an Elder Scrolls game.
All of the heroes in “Lord of the Rings” basically have one bar builds. Grimli uses an axe, Legolas uses a bow. They don’t switch to a staff or something stupid and immediately go back to their main weapon. They live out the player fantasy on screen and btw how it played out in the single player elder scrolls games as well.
And one bar HA builds play like how elder scrolls games should play like, where the weapon feels more than a stat stitck.
Now I am not personally a staff person, I like bows, I wish there was a HA build with a bow that could keep up with staffs. But I don’t want to see HA staff builds nerfed, I want bows buffed so players can have a choice.
Because even though I have done vMoL on a two bar build, I hate playing it. I hate it so, so much. Keeping track of timers switching, bars, weaving, it all sucks.
And I think that is why so many players flocked to single bar HA builds. Even though it was not the highest dps build, it did not have to deal with the awfulness that is the eso combat system. It played to the power fantasy of players, while avoiding the pitfalls of unrealistic (even in a fantasy reality) twitchy combat.
So “oh no” this build was overperforming. This mid tier build that people actually liked doing, that did not conform to the standard eso combat that is wildly unpopular (even among people who are current players), was doing far too much damage. Yes, enjoyment must be squashed, so that players that cling to the old ways of combat can feel extra better about themselves in their already superior two bar builds.
Calling the Oakensoul HA build "mid-tier" is flat out wrong. It was reaching 100k damage with infinite sustain, at range, and more defensive power than any other DPS build in the game. It was top tier. Just because it didn't deal the most damage out of any other build doesn't mean that it wasn't top tier. People using the oakensoul HA build (me, btw) don't need to "fall back" on anything - the build is going to work just as well in 90% of content. For the pulls/encounters where the AoE nerf matters - slot Unstable Wall or an AoE spammable.
Also, Necros overperforming? Lol.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on August 16, 2023 11:24AM12 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »
Zenny - you are giving a big 'scroo you' to a large group of players because a few ppl cried they died in pvp + $$$
I can say from personal experience it wasn't as simple as just dying. Just dying in a PvP zone is just whenever, no big deal.
The problem with dying to this scenario is that you die in about 2 seconds with no real time to respond or see where it's coming from depending on what's already going on. It really interrupts the fun of game in a way that shouldn't happen and is easily repeatable.
Yes you can stay away from ads/bosses but that contradicts what the pvp experience should normally be in that gaming scenario.
Also anyone can blame PvP if they want but the bigger issue is that problems like this will continue to happen because PvP end PvE aren't balanced separately like they should be.
If you want to pull your support from ZOS maybe do it for that reason and not because they tried to listen to feedback and solve the issue.
The problem isn't the fix but that you can't have good balance for PvE and PvP while the two use the same base game3 -
CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TLDR: Tri-Focus was an issue in PvP, and ZOS's solution wasn't to fix the broken component in PvP, but to completely gut the passive instead. Seems legit."Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."9 -
CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
If people weren't cheesing tri-focus in IC, then this wouldn't be an issue.
"Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."5 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
If people weren't cheesing tri-focus in IC, then this wouldn't be an issue.
The bigger problem is that tri focus is so powerful in PvE that nothing other than lightning staff heavy attack builds are worth the additional effort for any content easier than score pushing in vet trials.3 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
Actually this was more of a bug than an exploit.
You are giving misleading information. Tri focus isn't strong. In this case it only served to mirror and redirect the original damage which was actually amplified by other effects not related to tri focus.
Also it only hit so hard in PVP because battle spirit didn't mitigate it when the source before the mirror/redirect was an ad, boss, etc. Tri focus on a group of only players didn't have nearly the same effect.
Tri focus is generally no stronger than if I took most tooltips from PvE and said let them hit a player in PVP without being halved or removing bonuses just for monsters and such.5 -
KlauthWarthog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They once decided to nerf every single stat-boosting drink in the game instead of tweaking two sets. I stopped expecting their decisions to make sense or have a meaning a long time ago.Edited by KlauthWarthog on August 16, 2023 8:43PM10 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
If people weren't cheesing tri-focus in IC, then this wouldn't be an issue.
The bigger problem is that tri focus is so powerful in PvE that nothing other than lightning staff heavy attack builds are worth the additional effort for any content easier than score pushing in vet trials.
So you dont have an issue with it in PVP? - and merely want a nerf in PVE so you can grind different sets?
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 19, 2023 4:18PM1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StackonClown wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
If people weren't cheesing tri-focus in IC, then this wouldn't be an issue.
The bigger problem is that tri focus is so powerful in PvE that nothing other than lightning staff heavy attack builds are worth the additional effort for any content easier than score pushing in vet trials.
So you dont have an issue with it in PVP? - and merely want a nerf in PVE so you can grind different sets?
[snip]
I pretty much only PvP in BGs, but I rarely see lightning staff heavy attack builds there.
On the other hand, when I queue to vet dungeons as a healer, I regularly get groups with 3 lightning staff heavy attack builds (including a fake tank). Tri Focus is overperforming in PvE to the point where the devs know they have to nerf it for the (long term) health of the game, regardless of whether players are (currently) asking for changes or not.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 19, 2023 4:18PM4 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
Actually this was more of a bug than an exploit.
You are giving misleading information. Tri focus isn't strong. In this case it only served to mirror and redirect the original damage which was actually amplified by other effects not related to tri focus.
Also it only hit so hard in PVP because battle spirit didn't mitigate it when the source before the mirror/redirect was an ad, boss, etc. Tri focus on a group of only players didn't have nearly the same effect.
Tri focus is generally no stronger than if I took most tooltips from PvE and said let them hit a player in PVP without being halved or removing bonuses just for monsters and such.
I'm not giving any misleading information.
People in IC are exploiting the bug that Tri-Focus bypasses Battle Spirit. That is a fact.
Tri-Focus provides an insanely high power ceiling to Lightning Staves and only Lightning Staves. That is a fact.
Heavy attack sets were more powerful on Lightning Staves by up to an order of magnitude more than other staves because Tri-Focus applies any HA modifier to all targets without any sort of cap or falloff. That is a fact.
Please explain where my misinformation is.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on August 17, 2023 12:49PM2 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
I'm not giving any misleading information.
People in IC are exploiting the bug that Tri-Focus bypasses Battle Spirit. That is a fact.
Fair enough, this just comes down to different language that we're using but ultimately it comes to the same effect. I simply said it's more bug than exploit and you are saying they are exploiting a bug as you have now clarified. This just wasn't clear to me in your initial statement so that's why I said is misleading to someone who also might not see the difference.CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
It is also a fact that Tri-Focus provides an insanely high power ceiling to Lightning Staves and only Lightning Staves. That is a fact.
Again you are now adding more detail then your first original statement. First you said it was powerful with no clarification of what that meant. Now you are adding qualifiers that power which adds a difference to the discussion. By leaving out details you can make your information become misleading.
The power of tri focus as a bonus to lightning staves is a whole other balance problem. Even if you balanced it out the bug that caused the issue in pvp would still need to be fixed. So changing the power of trifocus would have only made the issue in pvp less noticeable but would not have fixed it.
So no your statement seems even more incorrect. The pvp exploit as you call it was not a symptom of trifocus being too powerful but rather caused by bad code in the way battle spirit was handling the damage. Tri focus being again powerful as you call it just enabled us to see the effect of the bad code with more prominent effect.
So while your intention may not have been to mislead it's certainly possible if you leave out clarifications or detail.2 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
If people weren't cheesing tri-focus in IC, then this wouldn't be an issue.
The bigger problem is that tri focus is so powerful in PvE that nothing other than lightning staff heavy attack builds are worth the additional effort for any content easier than score pushing in vet trials.
So you dont have an issue with it in PVP? - and merely want a nerf in PVE so you can grind different sets?
[snip]
goodbye eso+, goodbye crowns and goodbye any further DLC etc purchases.
[snip]
"We're sorry to see you've chosen to end your membership. If there is anything we can do to help make your ESO experience better, please feel free to contact us at esocsvip@mail.bethesda.net and let us know."
just calculated from my billing history I spent so far on ESO: $AUD 1974.38 = approx usd $1200
Well here it ends
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 19, 2023 4:20PM7 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
If people weren't cheesing tri-focus in IC, then this wouldn't be an issue.
The bigger problem is that tri focus is so powerful in PvE that nothing other than lightning staff heavy attack builds are worth the additional effort for any content easier than score pushing in vet trials.
So you dont have an issue with it in PVP? - and merely want a nerf in PVE so you can grind different sets?
[snip]
I pretty much only PvP in BGs, but I rarely see lightning staff heavy attack builds there.
On the other hand, when I queue to vet dungeons as a healer, I regularly get groups with 3 lightning staff heavy attack builds (including a fake tank). Tri Focus is overperforming in PvE to the point where the devs know they have to nerf it for the (long term) health of the game, regardless of whether players are (currently) asking for changes or not.
So now we have players who are actively asking devs for nerfs for the 'health of the game' - i have a hard time buying it.. the people asking for nerfs are those who "but i died in pvp"
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 19, 2023 4:24PM7 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭AOE dmg was the peculiarity of lightning HA builds and it's gone.
I'm not a fanboy of this or that content creator but nefas did a smart test, the Xy one only showed the single target dmg. Meaningless.
I agree. The one from Xy seemed to be aimed at shilling for ZOS by showing what it does in groups and not for solo players. I went on the PTS many times testing this out and if you're a solo player you're getting a HUGE nerf. Personally, I sense the connection between Lightning staff playstyle and the Arcanist playstyle is the issue. I can't prove it of course so don't take my word for it since it's just my opinion.
The problem for me now, is this nerf came out of nowhere which makes me wonder what nerf is next for no reason at all. Maybe kill the AOE damage for Blastbones? Sound far fetched? Before Tri-Focus nerf I would have thought so but now? With all due respect, I'm losing faith in these dev's on a daily basis and every PTS patch I look to see if maybe this time, they listened and reversed the Tri-Focus nerf. At this point I doubt it will happen. The real question for me is ... where is my breaking point? There are a lot of games out there and when the dev's start killing the fun stuff, what do you have left?
Update 35 was the biggest fiasco ever in this game. My opinion is hundreds of thousands of original players left the game due to it. Did ZOS learn from that fiasco? Nope. They just don't listen and it seems they just don't care. I left the game for almost a year after U35 and only came back before Arcanist dropped because a friend asked me to try the game again. I have been playing since day one and am close to 19,000 hours in this game. I'm sick of these nerfs out of nowhere that no one asks for and once again at the point of leaving ESO again with U39. I've been playing other games like BG3 and looking forward to Starfield. This lightning staff AOE elimination is going to hurt everyone that uses a Lightning staff. I agree with your statements.5 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
Thank you for your understanding.1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭JanTanhide wrote: »
Update 35 was the biggest fiasco ever in this game. My opinion is hundreds of thousands of original players left the game due to it. Did ZOS learn from that fiasco? Nope. They just don't listen and it seems they just don't care.
In their defense if people kept giving me money no matter what I did I probably wouldn't listen either. That's a half kidding joke. I think we'll never know the real story behind the scenes but it's obvious they have a cash cow that they are unable to or don't care to tend to properly.
I mean it's clear that players would come back/throw stacks of cash at this game if they would just put out the money to fix up the underperforming areas. I suspect there are just other agendas and directives for the revenue that is currently coming in.
I feel you on being tired of the wild swings like this one so often. You get a rotation/gear/skills all ready to go and then yeah for whatever reason you're going to now have to change some or all of that out to get even somewhat near where you used to be.
I get that we can't just have continued power creep or stale metas but this way of dealing with things doesn't seem to be making players happy either.2 -
CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »I get that we can't just have continued power creep or stale metas but this way of dealing with things doesn't seem to be making players happy either.JanTanhide wrote: »
Update 35 was the biggest fiasco ever in this game. My opinion is hundreds of thousands of original players left the game due to it. Did ZOS learn from that fiasco? Nope. They just don't listen and it seems they just don't care.
In their defense if people kept giving me money no matter what I did I probably wouldn't listen either. That's a half kidding joke. I think we'll never know the real story behind the scenes but it's obvious they have a cash cow that they are unable to or don't care to tend to properly.
I mean it's clear that players would come back/throw stacks of cash at this game if they would just put out the money to fix up the underperforming areas. I suspect there are just other agendas and directives for the revenue that is currently coming in.
I feel you on being tired of the wild swings like this one so often. You get a rotation/gear/skills all ready to go and then yeah for whatever reason you're going to now have to change some or all of that out to get even somewhat near where you used to be.
I can't think of a single reason from a PvE aspect as to why I would be thrilled about the prospect of having to spend more time killing trash packs because of a change that is almost assuredly a direct result of people whining about something that happened in PvP. It's been said plenty of times before, but trying to balance PvE and PvP TOGETHER is a lost cause.
"Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."3 -
i11ionward✭✭✭✭StackonClown wrote: »I've read a lot of other threads, in spite of the pleading its not pvp, in my mind there are 2 big reasons:
1/ someone died in pvp from splash damage and went back crying to mommy
2/ Necrom/Arcanist is massively underselling
I will never buy necrom + will unsub eso+ once u39 goes live.
Zenny - you are giving a big 'scroo you' to a large group of players because a few ppl cried they died in pvp + $$$
It took ZOS a whole year to balance mara's, in pvp for a long time some classes dominate over others, all players complain that they are tired of the heal tank meta. Clearly, ZOS does not prioritize the PVP audience in its business. Tri focus PvE to PvP damage is only possible in IC, believe me IC is usually dead (pc EU), there aren't enough players playing there to make a lot of complaints. The fact that the tri focus nerf was due to PVP is unbelievable.Edited by i11ionward on August 20, 2023 5:46PM1 -
CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i11ionward wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »I've read a lot of other threads, in spite of the pleading its not pvp, in my mind there are 2 big reasons:
1/ someone died in pvp from splash damage and went back crying to mommy
2/ Necrom/Arcanist is massively underselling
I will never buy necrom + will unsub eso+ once u39 goes live.
Zenny - you are giving a big 'scroo you' to a large group of players because a few ppl cried they died in pvp + $$$
It took ZOS a whole year to balance mara's, in pvp for a long time some classes dominate over others, all players complain that they are tired of the heal tank meta. Clearly, ZOS does not prioritize the PVP audience in its business. Tri focus PvE to PvP damage is only possible in IC, believe me IC is usually dead (pc EU), there aren't enough players playing there to make a lot of complaints. The fact that the tri focus nerf was due to PVP is unbelievable.
There are plenty of threads complaining about people "exploiting" heavy attack splash damage in IC, but I don't see a lot of threads from people complaining about splash damage in PvE.
"Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."2 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭i11ionward wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »I've read a lot of other threads, in spite of the pleading its not pvp, in my mind there are 2 big reasons:
1/ someone died in pvp from splash damage and went back crying to mommy
2/ Necrom/Arcanist is massively underselling
I will never buy necrom + will unsub eso+ once u39 goes live.
Zenny - you are giving a big 'scroo you' to a large group of players because a few ppl cried they died in pvp + $$$
It took ZOS a whole year to balance mara's, in pvp for a long time some classes dominate over others, all players complain that they are tired of the heal tank meta. Clearly, ZOS does not prioritize the PVP audience in its business. Tri focus PvE to PvP damage is only possible in IC, believe me IC is usually dead (pc EU), there aren't enough players playing there to make a lot of complaints. The fact that the tri focus nerf was due to PVP is unbelievable.
There are plenty of threads complaining about people "exploiting" heavy attack splash damage in IC, but I don't see a lot of threads from people complaining about splash damage in PvE.
Because PvE mobs don't have forum accounts and it's PvE mobs that are on reciving end when it comes to PvE. Fact You don't see something being complained about doesn't mean it's not an issue especially when it comes to PvE.
Also Your narration is a bit far-fetched. Fact that You don't see threads complaining directly about AoE dmg of lightning staff doesn't mean there wasn't lots of complaints about it. In few massive threads about HA setups, lots of comments saying that nerf to one bar HA setups is justified was mentioning AoE as one of the reasons.Edited by Galeriano on August 20, 2023 8:23PM4 -
CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
Actually this was more of a bug than an exploit.
You are giving misleading information. Tri focus isn't strong. In this case it only served to mirror and redirect the original damage which was actually amplified by other effects not related to tri focus.
Also it only hit so hard in PVP because battle spirit didn't mitigate it when the source before the mirror/redirect was an ad, boss, etc. Tri focus on a group of only players didn't have nearly the same effect.
Tri focus is generally no stronger than if I took most tooltips from PvE and said let them hit a player in PVP without being halved or removing bonuses just for monsters and such.
I'm not giving any misleading information.
People in IC are exploiting the bug that Tri-Focus bypasses Battle Spirit. That is a fact.
Tri-Focus provides an insanely high power ceiling to Lightning Staves and only Lightning Staves. That is a fact.
Heavy attack sets were more powerful on Lightning Staves by up to an order of magnitude more than other staves because Tri-Focus applies any HA modifier to all targets without any sort of cap or falloff. That is a fact.
Please explain where my misinformation is.
This guy claiming "facts" without providing facts does not in fact make them facts.2 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭i11ionward wrote: »StackonClown wrote: »I've read a lot of other threads, in spite of the pleading its not pvp, in my mind there are 2 big reasons:
1/ someone died in pvp from splash damage and went back crying to mommy
2/ Necrom/Arcanist is massively underselling
I will never buy necrom + will unsub eso+ once u39 goes live.
Zenny - you are giving a big 'scroo you' to a large group of players because a few ppl cried they died in pvp + $$$
It took ZOS a whole year to balance mara's, in pvp for a long time some classes dominate over others, all players complain that they are tired of the heal tank meta. Clearly, ZOS does not prioritize the PVP audience in its business. Tri focus PvE to PvP damage is only possible in IC, believe me IC is usually dead (pc EU), there aren't enough players playing there to make a lot of complaints. The fact that the tri focus nerf was due to PVP is unbelievable.
There are plenty of threads complaining about people "exploiting" heavy attack splash damage in IC, but I don't see a lot of threads from people complaining about splash damage in PvE.
Because PvE mobs don't have forum accounts and it's PvE mobs that are on reciving end when it comes to PvE. Fact You don't see something being complained about doesn't mean it's not an issue especially when it comes to PvE.
Also Your narration is a bit far-fetched. Fact that You don't see threads complaining directly about AoE dmg of lightning staff doesn't mean there wasn't lots of complaints about it. In few massive threads about HA setups, lots of comments saying that nerf to one bar HA setups is justified was mentioning AoE as one of the reasons.
Was going to say yeah this is correct. The threads just fall under the banner of nerf heavy attack builds which draw a decent amount of damage from tri focus.1 -
FoJul✭✭✭✭Meanwhile in the real world (a sample of comments from Nefas’s YT):
U can tell this change is not made because of players feedbacks, it's clearly interreference from the finance department because the Necrom sales revenue prob failed to meet certain financial goals
It’s because they want you to pay up and play an archanist. All these changes bud the one barchanist builds. The tentacles and beam are both channels. Add the aoe dot and a wall and you’re set
Oh god I hate that trash of an update, I took a 7 month break because of it. Might take another one when once Starfield releases and Baldurs Gate 3.
Zos been going down the path bungie took with it's decisions/updates. I'm closing my wallet to this game as I'm losing hope in it's future.
Little by little I've never been more bored with the game.
Yet month to month I keep giving them my money hoping for better results.
They are screwing some few things that actually were good in the game. The combat system is weird and clunky even with the HA builds helping to feel more fluid and simple - so they decided to create an overpowered new class (who will be nerfed soon) and destroy the HA mechanics slowly at each new update. Why? I personally play this game because I love TES lore and characters and have friends playing but...this is so messy.
they are selling Arcanist as the new "begginer best friend" - but they will nerf Arcanist soon enough
I’ve never seen a company nerf their game into the ground this hard holy ***. Every little bit of fun I’ve had in this game has either been nerfed away or broken due to server instability.
So nerf class that many enjoy and get people to want to play archanist. Once players get addicted to archanist and start destroying content be prepared for a nerf even on paid content . It’s endless . Meanwhile let’s ignore the pvp aspect balance that matter where in pve is shouldn’t matter .
This was a stupid change in 2016 and its a stupid change in 2023.
I have to agree with others here. This just reeks of trying to make people play arcanist to regain the feeling of playing a heavy attack build. As usual, zos disappoints me.
"Buy our expansion and shoot laser beam! Don't play the other dumb classes!" -Crown Store Studios
That's... interesting. I was under the impression that they(and followers) were some of the main youtubers saying HA lightening attack was too strong to begin with(perhaps Im mistaken? I do know of two for sure, but Nefas is new to me)
If anything this is only a small part of what's being said there. Word of mouth kept me from this game for the first couple of years, and word of mouth brought me to it(that they'd gotten better and it was solo friendly)
Heavy attack builds were broken. Im not to educated on this issue, as I am a pvp main. However, I will say HA builds with the tri focus one shot Groups in IC who weren't careful that someone was heavy attacking. Same thing applies in keeps and big fights where im taking 15k hits from A HEAVY ATTACK.
The heavy attack build was a brainless build, which I understand at the end. It makes the game easier, but I'm pretty positive that's not how it was intended to be played. For PvP it was definitely an exploit. In PvE, I'm not so sure.
They could have at least, did a battle spirit thing and reduced the splash damage of course.0 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭The real problem I have with this change is that, once again, it was not something asked for or needed.
The devs then try and put a positive spin on it, implying that the final changes were what people actually wanted.
What we wanted was for you to not touch this in the first place. You don't listen to the player base. It seems like you are doing everything possible to make a game less fun, and this is a recurrent issue, patch to patch.
It wasn't enough you decimated the end game community in U35. Now you are trying to make stuff harder for those just getting in to content, and those that struggle with physical disabilities.
I've never come across a company before whose goal was to make the game less accessible.Edited by pklemming on August 21, 2023 11:17AM12 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭The real problem I have with this change is that, once again, it was not something asked for or needed.
The devs then try and put a positive spin on it, implying that the final changes were what people actually wanted.
I appreciate the spirit of your post but did want to clarify that while this specific implementation wasn't asked for, there were definitely those that wanted this.
Several people complained about the power of heavy attack build in both PVP and PVE. Now to be fair it seemed to still be less than the number of people that liked what this did for heavy attacks but still.
It would be incorrect and unfair to say that nobody wanted this and that there aren't people that will be happy to see it.
The most confusing thing about these changes is really that ZOS never gives any kind of roadmap to where this is all going so good or bad, the changes just seem random.
But I think one thing people also have to notice that one trend with ZOS is to just constantly shift power. Sucks when you're the one to take the nerf but eventually they will just come out with a change or item that gives the power back in another way. Helps keep the game "fresh" for some I suppose.3 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Beefstickbandit wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
Actually this was more of a bug than an exploit.
You are giving misleading information. Tri focus isn't strong. In this case it only served to mirror and redirect the original damage which was actually amplified by other effects not related to tri focus.
Also it only hit so hard in PVP because battle spirit didn't mitigate it when the source before the mirror/redirect was an ad, boss, etc. Tri focus on a group of only players didn't have nearly the same effect.
Tri focus is generally no stronger than if I took most tooltips from PvE and said let them hit a player in PVP without being halved or removing bonuses just for monsters and such.
I'm not giving any misleading information.
People in IC are exploiting the bug that Tri-Focus bypasses Battle Spirit. That is a fact.
Tri-Focus provides an insanely high power ceiling to Lightning Staves and only Lightning Staves. That is a fact.
Heavy attack sets were more powerful on Lightning Staves by up to an order of magnitude more than other staves because Tri-Focus applies any HA modifier to all targets without any sort of cap or falloff. That is a fact.
Please explain where my misinformation is.
This guy claiming "facts" without providing facts does not in fact make them facts.
Please tell me which one of those isn't a fact.0