Lol NB buff again

StaticWave

Sikon wrote: »

Camo hunter is exactly like Water... that makes no sense.

Especially on a "Brawler Blade" you rather play "Path" than "Cloak"... so I really have to think about it if I want to swap my Camohunter,
which gives me "Major Savagery/Prophecy" and "Minor Berserk" with a flanking attack + a Stealth detection on activation + a 100 Weapon Damage from Fighter Guild passives...

or do I want to use the new "Cloak" which gives me "Major Savagery/Prophecy" and a bugged Spamable Stealth ^^

You can decide

Here's a breakdown comparison between Camo Hunter and Shadowy Disguise.

Camo Hunter:
1) "5%" Damage Done, which isn't exactly 5% because it's multiplicative with other damage done modifiers. It's realistically around 3%.
2) ~80-100 WD
3) Major Savagery on 1 bar
4) Stealth Detect (which isn't that good because of location desync)

Shadowy Disguise:
1) 300 WD from Vamp Passive
2) Can force a crit Spectral Bow or Incap from stealth
3) 3% max HP
4) Longer Major Resolve duration
5) Is one of the best defensive ability in the game, forcing your opponent to waste Tri pots or Crit pots just to detect you
6) Major Savagery on 2 bars
7) Frees up a slot for other defensive abilities like Shade, or offensive abilities..

It's a no brainer choice to pick Shadowy Disguise over Camo Hunter next patch, regardless of what spec you choose to play as a NB.

Sikon

I know what you want to point out @StaticWave but believe me, this change has not as much impact as you want it to see here.
Rather focus on Sorc Gameplay improvement than breaking it down to this change and calling the nerf hammer for the whole class again^^

StaticWave

Sikon wrote: »

Basing a class's strength on procs is a meaningless argument. What happens when those procs get nerfed lol? I know. They just disappear into oblivion again and hop on a better class. That's what all the fotm stamsorcs did when their procs got nerfed lol.

Oh man, then Nightblade is a complete meaningless class, because the whole class is build on a crit/proc playstyle with relentless focus+Ultimate... so sad

You don't seem to understand the point. A stat build stamblade in Rallying Cry/NMG is FAR stronger than a stat build stamsorc. A proc build stamblade in mDW/Vate Ice is FAR stronger than a proc build stamsorc.

If you're going to discuss actual class balance, then you need to make the comparison fair and objective, and also strip every outside sources of power from the class and compare the class abilities and their tooltips. Saying "stamsorc is strong and can beat NBs this patch" is meaningless when everyone knows that a proctard stamsorc can beat a stat build stamblade lol. Put a proc NB and a proc stamsorc together and the NB wins the majority of the fight.

Turtle_Bot

Sikon wrote: »

I know what you want to point out @StaticWave but believe me, this change has not as much impact as you want it to see here.
Rather focus on Sorc Gameplay improvement than breaking it down to this change and calling the nerf hammer for the whole class again^^

Myself and many others tried this approach back in U36 (when sorcs really were legitimately the bottom of the barrel), we even tried to propose actual balanced changes that came with adjustments, nerfs and downsides to go along with the improved functionality and playability for the class, and all it was met with was crying from many NB mains that screamed about a return of 2018 sorc like it was still 2018 and resulted in a few random misguided buffs that tbh, haven't really fixed the issues with the class at all.

Server upgrades and massively overperforming proc sets (maras/masters DW/vate destro/maarselok/WoF/relequen) have done more to help sorcerer stay somewhat relevant than any of the buffs ZOS has given the class over the past year. Take the proc sets away and you're left with a class that makes current necro look decent.

StaticWave

Sikon wrote: »

I know what you want to point out @StaticWave but believe me, this change has not as much impact as you want it to see here.
Rather focus on Sorc Gameplay improvement than breaking it down to this change and calling the nerf hammer for the whole class again^^

I've mained Sorc for 5 years and have done every single PvP content up to date at the highest level, with plenty of people who can vouch for my experience level, and I am still continuing to find out ways to beat the stronger classes through daily dueling instead of hopping on those stronger classes. I don't need you or anyone to tell me to improve my gameplay.

Telling me to focus on my Sorc gameplay (or l2p) instead of wanting a balanced PvP is pretty distasteful and an attempted jab at my experience of my class. I suggest you make an actual attempt at being objective and explain why you think it's ok to keep this change.

Zabagad

StaticWave wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise:
4) Longer Major Resolve duration

Sorry - Don't lol again about me, but I'm no expert like you and I play no NB.
My only source is UESP and there is written: "This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped".
So I have to ask and learn: "Where is this longer duration coming from?"

StaticWave

Zabagad wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise:
4) Longer Major Resolve duration

Sorry - Don't lol again about me, but I'm no expert like you and I play no NB.
My only source is UESP and there is written: "This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped".
So I have to ask and learn: "Where is this longer duration coming from?"

It's most likely NBs opting for more heavy armor pieces to make full use of the 3% max HP passive by stacking with heavy armor health passive, which in turn increase the duration of Major Resolve.

If you don't wear more heavy armor then you won't get more duration, but that's one of the paths a NB could make in the future, assuming they aren't already doing so.

Sikon

StaticWave wrote: »

Sikon wrote: »

I know what you want to point out @StaticWave but believe me, this change has not as much impact as you want it to see here.
Rather focus on Sorc Gameplay improvement than breaking it down to this change and calling the nerf hammer for the whole class again^^

I've mained Sorc for 5 years and have done every single PvP content up to date at the highest level, with plenty of people who can vouch for my experience level, and I am still continuing to find out ways to beat the stronger classes through daily dueling instead of hopping on those stronger classes. I don't need you or anyone to tell me to improve my gameplay.

Telling me to focus on my Sorc gameplay (or l2p) instead of wanting a balanced PvP is pretty distasteful and an attempted jab at my experience of my class. I suggest you make an actual attempt at being objective and explain why you think it's ok to keep this change.

I am not telling you to get better directly, I want to tell you to put all this work and ambition and hate against nightblades into another direction. Give ZOS advice what they need to improve on your "Sorcerer Gameplay" to make it compete with the "Nightblades". Focus more on "Sorc buff advice Threads" than blaming other classes^^

StaticWave

Sikon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sikon wrote: »

I know what you want to point out @StaticWave but believe me, this change has not as much impact as you want it to see here.
Rather focus on Sorc Gameplay improvement than breaking it down to this change and calling the nerf hammer for the whole class again^^

I've mained Sorc for 5 years and have done every single PvP content up to date at the highest level, with plenty of people who can vouch for my experience level, and I am still continuing to find out ways to beat the stronger classes through daily dueling instead of hopping on those stronger classes. I don't need you or anyone to tell me to improve my gameplay.

Telling me to focus on my Sorc gameplay (or l2p) instead of wanting a balanced PvP is pretty distasteful and an attempted jab at my experience of my class. I suggest you make an actual attempt at being objective and explain why you think it's ok to keep this change.

I am not telling you to get better directly, I want to tell you to put all this work and ambition and hate against nightblades into another direction. Give ZOS advice what they need to improve on your "Sorcerer Gameplay" to make it compete with the "Nightblades". Focus more on "Sorc buff advice Threads" than blaming other classes^^

Do you realize how many Sorc buff threads have been made for the past several months, pin pointing the things that need change, only for ZoS to spin it their ways and never fixing the actual issues lol?

StaticWave

Sorc has severe bar space and healing issue. Instead of buffing Sorc class heals and giving important buffs to their class skills, ZoS went ahead and gave the class Minor Force on a stam morph, which doesn’t even fix Magsorc’s bar space issue or stamsorc’s healing issue lol. Stamsorc continues to crutch on procsets and healing mythics and magsorc is almost as dead as Necro.

Meanwhile NB, a class with one of the most efficient bar space in the game, gets even more efficient with Shadowy Disguise buff. Instead of giving that to Sorc who direly needs it, they decided to give it to a class that doesn’t need it 🤣🤣🤣

Making another sorc buff thread at this point is asinine. It’s clear the class will never get the buffs they need.

Sikon

Well, feel free to try OP Nightblade yourself then if it is that easy ^^

Major_Soulless

90% of NBS (always the ones who use cloak) are easily killed with ice comet and jesus beam combo on my templar so im happy for them if they get a bit of help.

Playing NB actually requires ability unlike DK which is the ultimate carry class

StaticWave

Sikon wrote: »

Well, feel free to try OP Nightblade yourself then if it is that easy ^^

My NB is Alliance Rank 32

Major_Soulless

Sikon wrote: »

Well, feel free to try OP Nightblade yourself then if it is that easy ^^

its actually very easy as a sniper.

playing in open areas was very tricky and it made me respect nbs more than i used to.

Turtle_Bot

BTW, something to take note of (this will affect the already mediocre magsorcs more than it will stamsorcs), the changes to flame staff (the removal of the +10% single target damage) is a straight up 10% damage nerf to all magsorcs in PvP.

Frags, -10% damage
Force pulse -10% damage
Curse -10% to the main damage part
Bound armaments (if magsorcs decide to try this ability) -10% damage
Overload -10% damage
Pets -10% damage

What's left for magsorc now?

If these changes to staves go through Magsorc is once again, back down to bottom of the barrel, 10% damage nerf across the board, still no proper reliable healing, no crit chance access to help crit surge and no real buff to speak of, [snip]

[edited for bashing]

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

BTW, something to take note of (this will affect the already mediocre magsorcs more than it will stamsorcs), the changes to flame staff (the removal of the +10% single target damage) is a straight up 10% damage nerf to all magsorcs in PvP.

Frags, -10% damage
Force pulse -10% damage
Curse -10% to the main damage part
Bound armaments (if magsorcs decide to try this ability) -10% damage
Overload -10% damage
Pets -10% damage

What's left for magsorc now?

If these changes to staves go through Magsorc is once again, back down to bottom of the barrel, 10% damage nerf across the board, still no proper reliable healing, no crit chance access to help crit surge and no real buff to speak of, [snip]

Pretty much every good magsorc main I know is either playing Nb next patch or switching to stamsorc. Looks like ZoS pulled the plug and the class might truly be dead this time lol.

[edited to remove quote]

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

BTW, something to take note of (this will affect the already mediocre magsorcs more than it will stamsorcs), the changes to flame staff (the removal of the +10% single target damage) is a straight up 10% damage nerf to all magsorcs in PvP.

Frags, -10% damage
Force pulse -10% damage
Curse -10% to the main damage part
Bound armaments (if magsorcs decide to try this ability) -10% damage
Overload -10% damage
Pets -10% damage

What's left for magsorc now?

If these changes to staves go through Magsorc is once again, back down to bottom of the barrel, 10% damage nerf across the board, still no proper reliable healing, no crit chance access to help crit surge and no real buff to speak of, [snip]

Pretty much every good magsorc main I know is either playing Nb next patch or switching to stamsorc. Looks like ZoS pulled the plug and the class might truly be dead this time lol.

Yeah, hopefully this shuts up NBs about elswyr, magsorc is going to be a truly dead class (more dead than NBs claim elswyr was for them) if these changes go through, even PvE isn't looking good with lightning staff losing its AoE splash on all but the final tick of the HA so oakensoul HA sorcs are taking a 50% nerf to their cleave damage for a net 1% increase to their single target damage.

[edited to remove quote]

Mayrael

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

So NB’s gonna have even more efficient bar space next patch as they can drop Camo Hunter and run another offensive/defensive ability, as if NB isn’t already one of the strongest specs for PvP.

Wanting to make NB more useful outside of PvP yet accidentally buffing NB even more in PvP has got to be meme worthy at this point lol.

I am quitting templar and becoming NB. The bias is real lol. It's like someone saw the "It's time to hold NB cloak to the same standards" and wanted to personally put up a middle finger.

Well, they've done it, I am lvling up and making an nb that is not a redguard. I'm abandoning Redguard Stamplar and going full NB. I can use the cheap base gears and still bring down the big boys. The stamplar, I never had that OOMPH to do it. Power of the light was always cleansed or something. Now I do the same rotation with spectral bow. I was always wondering how I would get that major buff. Now cloak and spectral bow is auto...meaning I don't have to be on the bar to get the benefits like camo hunter or whatever.

This is going to be FUN! I get to cloak? That's just too tasty. There was NOTHING templar had for it. I could NEVER get the burst heal to crit. NB I can cloak crit heal. With my crit naturally being over 60, I will be able to do a whole lot more.

NB is god. NB is god. NB is god. NB is god.

Good luck Post some vids of your gameplay

Mayrael

StaticWave wrote: »

Sikon wrote: »

Well, feel free to try OP Nightblade yourself then if it is that easy ^^

My NB is Alliance Rank 32

Awesome! Your OP Nightblade vs my weakling sorc. We have a deal? When? Show us how ez mode is NB

StaticWave

Mayrael wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sikon wrote: »

Well, feel free to try OP Nightblade yourself then if it is that easy ^^

My NB is Alliance Rank 32

Awesome! Your OP Nightblade vs my weakling sorc. We have a deal? When? Show us how ez mode is NB

Want to set the Nb up for me? I havent played it in 5 months

Mayrael

StaticWave wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sikon wrote: »

Well, feel free to try OP Nightblade yourself then if it is that easy ^^

My NB is Alliance Rank 32

Awesome! Your OP Nightblade vs my weakling sorc. We have a deal? When? Show us how ez mode is NB

Want to set the Nb up for me? I havent played it in 5 months

And I haven't played my sorc for about 7 years

Edit:
No actually it is 6 years. But I will setup my sorc on my own, I hope you'll handle your NB on your own to.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings, as we've removed a few non-constructive comments, please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Panderbander

StaticWave wrote: »

Sikon wrote: »

Camo hunter is exactly like Water... that makes no sense.

Especially on a "Brawler Blade" you rather play "Path" than "Cloak"... so I really have to think about it if I want to swap my Camohunter,
which gives me "Major Savagery/Prophecy" and "Minor Berserk" with a flanking attack + a Stealth detection on activation + a 100 Weapon Damage from Fighter Guild passives...

or do I want to use the new "Cloak" which gives me "Major Savagery/Prophecy" and a bugged Spamable Stealth ^^

You can decide

Here's a breakdown comparison between Camo Hunter and Shadowy Disguise.

Camo Hunter:
1) "5%" Damage Done, which isn't exactly 5% because it's multiplicative with other damage done modifiers. It's realistically around 3%.
2) ~80-100 WD
3) Major Savagery on 1 bar
4) Stealth Detect (which isn't that good because of location desync)

Shadowy Disguise:
1) 300 WD from Vamp Passive
2) Can force a crit Spectral Bow or Incap from stealth
3) 3% max HP
4) Longer Major Resolve duration
5) Is one of the best defensive ability in the game, forcing your opponent to waste Tri pots or Crit pots just to detect you
6) Major Savagery on 2 bars
7) Frees up a slot for other defensive abilities like Shade, or offensive abilities..

It's a no brainer choice to pick Shadowy Disguise over Camo Hunter next patch, regardless of what spec you choose to play as a NB.

Just to clarify something: Percent modifiers that increase something are ADDITIVE not MULTIPLICATIVE. Percent reduction modifiers are the inverse. This results in situations where percentage increases don't become adversely strong the more modifiers you add and percentage reductions are incapable of reducing something to zero.

Minor + Major Berserk will result in a +15% damage increase whereas multiplicatively they would have resulted in +15.5%.

Conversely, Minor + Major protection will result in a 14.5% reduction rather than the 15% they would have resulted in additively.

SaffronCitrusflower

They buffing a class that was already OP. While at the same time leaving the weakest classes untouched.

Twig_Garlicshine

Zos: We are finally letting some skill bonuses carry over between bars on --multiple classes-- to simplify some build choices.
[snip]



[edited for baiting]

katorga

Frankly I'm amazed ZOS did not add major brutality/sorcery for having something slotted on one bar. Must be in 9.1.1.

Rename the class Oakenblade - with my standard skill layout I get access to:

Unnamed AND named Major Berserk buffs (20%)
Unnamed AND named minor regen buffs (30%)
Unnamed 10% crit damage
Major/Minor expedition
Major/Minor Resolve
Major/Minor Savagery (plus 100% crit on demand)
Major Prophecy
Minor Berserk
Minor Mending
Empower

Almost the full Oakensoul buff line. No buff management, just use my normal rotations.

The only thing I am stuck with is wasting a skill slot for Major Brutality/Sorcery.

StaticWave

Fkey wrote: »

[snip]

Asking for this change to not be implemented is a valid request. NB does not need any more PvP buffs.

The simplification of skill bonuses carrying over between bars is honestly not a bad change if the ability itself or the class isn’t broken. Idk why you wouldn’t want quality of life improved in classes that need it.

[edited quote]

Twig_Garlicshine

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

Zos: We are finally letting some skill bonuses carry over between bars on --multiple classes-- to simplify some build choices.
[snip]

Asking for this change to not be implemented is a valid request. NB does not need any more PvP buffs.

The simplification of skill bonuses carrying over between bars is honestly not a bad change if the ability itself or the class isn’t broken. Idk why you wouldn’t want quality of life improved in classes that need it.

I do want the changes --even though-- I won't be using the skills in either class.
As someone else has stated, instead of always asking to nerf NBs in everything, maybe ask for similar buffs to other classes including sorcs. [snip]

[edited for baiting and quote]

StaticWave

Fkey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

Zos: We are finally letting some skill bonuses carry over between bars on --multiple classes-- to simplify some build choices.
[snip]

Asking for this change to not be implemented is a valid request. NB does not need any more PvP buffs.

The simplification of skill bonuses carrying over between bars is honestly not a bad change if the ability itself or the class isn’t broken. Idk why you wouldn’t want quality of life improved in classes that need it.

I do want the changes --even though-- I won't be using the skills in either class.
As someone else has stated, instead of always asking to nerf NBs in everything, maybe ask for similar buffs to other classes including sorcs. [snip]

Have you not seen the countless sorc buff threads on the forums over the past few months, some of which I and sorc mains like @Turtle_Bot actively participated in? Guess what ZoS did? They buffed things we didn’t ask for and ultimately didn’t solve the issue for the class.

I am a 5 star Grand Overlord stamsorc with a high BG MMR. I don’t just strictly duel lol. I have a youtube channel with videos doing 1vX and smallscale content. Sorc is a class that excels at single target damage and solo PvP, and has never been as popular in group fights. The exceptions are a Negate bot or a bombard bot, but you only need one of each for any group comp. It’s much better to bring other classes that are not only tankier but have more AoE damage and group utility that isn’t tied to an ultimate or a Bow. Wardens, DKs, and Plar are much better in this regard.

So what is wrong with wanting to buff Sorc in the area it excels the most at? If you followed any of the Sorc threads, you would know that ZoS has diminished the strength of Sorc’s mobility over the years by making movement speed sources easier to get. A Warden and a NB can be just as fast as a Sorc now, and can also slot Mist Form. There is no advantage playing a Sorc when other classes can do what a Sorc does.

So if ZoS isn’t going to remove the things that took away Sorc’s advantage, then why not give it the healing it needs to compete?

[edited quote]

Twig_Garlicshine

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Fkey wrote: »

Zos: We are finally letting some skill bonuses carry over between bars on --multiple classes-- to simplify some build choices.
[snip]

Asking for this change to not be implemented is a valid request. NB does not need any more PvP buffs.

The simplification of skill bonuses carrying over between bars is honestly not a bad change if the ability itself or the class isn’t broken. Idk why you wouldn’t want quality of life improved in classes that need it.

I do want the changes --even though-- I won't be using the skills in either class.
As someone else has stated, instead of always asking to nerf NBs in everything, maybe ask for similar buffs to other classes including sorcs.[snip]

Have you not seen the countless sorc buff threads on the forums over the past few months, some of which I and sorc mains like @Turtle_Bot actively participated in? Guess what ZoS did? They buffed things we didn’t ask for and ultimately didn’t solve the issue for the class.

I am a 5 star Grand Overlord stamsorc with a high BG MMR. I don’t just strictly duel lol. I have a youtube channel with videos doing 1vX and smallscale content. Sorc is a class that excels at single target damage and solo PvP, and has never been as popular in group fights. The exceptions are a Negate bot or a bombard bot, but you only need one of each for any group comp. It’s much better to bring other classes that are not only tankier but have more AoE damage and group utility that isn’t tied to an ultimate or a Bow. Wardens, DKs, and Plar are much better in this regard.

So what is wrong with wanting to buff Sorc in the area it excels the most at? If you followed any of the Sorc threads, you would know that ZoS has diminished the strength of Sorc’s mobility over the years by making movement speed sources easier to get. A Warden and a NB can be just as fast as a Sorc now, and can also slot Mist Form. There is no advantage playing a Sorc when other classes can do what a Sorc does.

So if ZoS isn’t going to remove the things that took away Sorc’s advantage, then why not give it the healing it needs to compete?

"I AM..." - nice argument from authority.

[snip]

[edited quote and for baiting]