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Beam+javelin is just broken. One of them should be nerfed.
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mmtaniac✭✭✭✭✭Templar weakness is his 0 defense, we have only healing as a defense wchich is bad against 1vx.
Templar are bad in 1vx situations compared to other classes, even necro have better 1vx with his defense. Necro is bad current state and still have better 1vx.
Templar damage is just too slow and too weak, we lack effective burst damage.
Templar have bad sustain, our sustain is only 1 ability that give us little regen in 20seconds and it's only 1 resource wchich you choose. Now look at DK 2 passives for sustain 1 can regen whole bars. Every class have at least 3-4 passives too sustain when templar have passive that return him soulgem after ressurecting PERFECT PASSIVE. Ok execute is maybe too strong but people see only 1 thing that is super op and not see other problems. If we lost that one thing we become bad at everything.Edited by mmtaniac on August 9, 2023 10:49AM1 -
Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templar weakness is his 0 defense, we have only healing as a defense wchich is bad against 1vx.
Templar are bad in 1vx situations compared to other classes, even necro have better 1vx with his defense. Necro is bad current state and still have better 1vx.
Templar damage is just too slow and too weak, we lack effective burst damage.
Templar have bad sustain, our sustain is only 1 ability that give us little regen in 20seconds and it's only 1 resource wchich you choose. Now look at DK 2 passives for sustain 1 can regen whole bars. Every class have at least 3-4 passives too sustain when templar have passive that return him soulgem after ressurecting PERFECT PASSIVE. Ok execute is maybe too strong but people see only 1 thing that is super op and not see other problems. If we lost that one thing we become bad at everything.
First sentence sounds contradictory. Having decent healing means there isn't zero defense. And I would disagree that templar only defense is healing or that it means templar have zero defense. Strong reliable burst heal is number one priority for good defense in PvP and templar have that. Class also have the best cleanse ability in the game which right now is a usefull tool considering that after mara's nerf heavy debuffing became more noticable. Cleanse alone wouldn't be that strong but templar continues to create one of the best synergies with a mist. Previously with old mist it was because numeric magicka restoring now it's because of cleanse. Although mist is not templar exclusive ability, fact that templar can mist away cleanse negeative effects and heal to full before enemies catch up makes this class one of the best to use mist which emps up class's defense significantly.
Not every class needs to be 1vX god. People seems to be too fixated on that one aspect. Templar is one of the best choices for group play for example. If You have a small group with no DK and no templar would You rather pick DK or a templar to fill the spot? And in all honesty 1vX on templar is not that bad unless You start comparing it to classes like DK but at that point You can also start comparing DK healer to templar healer. It's obvious certain classes will have an adventage over other classes in particular playstyles.
I do agree that templar's offense can be wonky but it's hard not to notice that one of the reasons for that may be javelin+beam being too much pushed into being templar's main tools. Making that combo less potent could open doors to for example buff backlash final explosion dmg and provide templar with better burst options.
Templar sustain isn't that tragic. Before mist was changed templar was the class abusing the most, numeric magicka gains from chanelled focus and HotD to the point You could sit in mist and just leave it to pop HotD and than just go back to mist. That being said yes it's not the class with the best sustain but to be honest it doesn't have to be. Templar is really not as lackluster as You're trying to paint it. Many people put magplar between 3rd and 5th best PvP setup atm out of 14 core setups. Fact it's not a top dog doesn't mean it's trash and it definietly doesn't mean it should be free from balance changes even if they mean some nerfs.
I also think You are too focused on 1vX. You mentioned it 3 times in Your first 3 sentences like it would be the most dominant playstyle in the game that all PvP resolves around. In reality it's the least seen type of gameplay and it's kinda wierd to focus mainly on that when talking about overall class effectiveness.Edited by Galeriano on August 11, 2023 11:21AM2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭Templar's can't be both ,you must choose , you are glassy destroyer or tanky tank from tank town. Templar is probably most balanced class on pvp right now, but still people want to nerf because we are not punch bags.
I can deal massive damage but every item sets will be focused on this and 1 my bad and im dead.
Now take DK or Stamden they just click shalks or dots and ta dah milions damage.
If you make universal templar build , you will be just averege. Our tools not give us possibility to be eveything. Passives and some abilities are problem. We still have too many bad passives. My most hated one are Illuminate and Prism why this is two passives not one like DK have Mountain Blessing it's 100% similiar and still we have it in 4 skill points not 2. I hate how easy fix is not fixed already. Give us something usefull. Again soul gem passive it's useless!
On the other side templar Sacred ground passive
is block mitigation of IronSkin and 8% healing increased, 66% of Burning heat. When blocking you are slowed fown and are usually standing inside your healing aoes anyway. But players still suggested to make Iron Skins 10% block mitigation conditional like only above 50% hp with a condition much worse than Sacred Ground.
Javelin+Radiating opression are often used in combination with an undodgeable stunning ulti like meteor or dawnbreaker,metc. You cant block the combo because you get stunned threw block by beam and you cant dodge the combo because even if you dodge the javelin you still get hit and stunned by meteor or dawnbreaker. Radiant Optession than often kills you before you can break free. Radiating Opression cant be bashed if the target is not in meele range and beamplars usually beam you from range.
Only because „Everything is Op when you are outnumbered“ doesnt mean some skills stronger for zerging than others and really to strong.
Radiating opression is already very efficient 2v1.
If I am duelling a player and the moment my health gets slightly down a magplar comes and finishes me with a (meteor+javelin)+radiant opression did I deserve that because I should expect to win outnumbered and shouldnt try fighting them or was it maybe not my choice to fight outnumbered and get backstabbed by the magplar?
Numbers shouldnt always win when one side intentionally outnumbers the other side that cant even get same numbers. Many players rely on winning by Numbers and run away or doesnt even show up when it is equal numbers or their numerically superiority is not big enaugh. They shouldnt get rewarded for playing unfair.
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JerBearESO✭✭✭✭I'm tired of dying to beam peck, where the first tick executes for 10k+ damage but the beam doesn't even visually bother to show up. The beam damage should scale over its lifetime so that it offers counterplay, and let it tick faster to feel more consistent and compensate the damage loss.
If it is currently doing 3 ticks of damage over its duration (I may be wrong), then make it do 5 over the same duration, and make the first tick deal 20% of the damage a tick currently does. Then each subsequent tick will deal another 20%. So 20/40/60/80/100. That's the same overall damage but with it building up to it so it cannot immediately explode a low health target the way it does, which does not seem to be thematically/logically/mechanically correct.1 -
UsualSurrender✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »I'm tired of dying to beam peck, where the first tick executes for 10k+ damage but the beam doesn't even visually bother to show up.
To be honest, if you get hit by a 10k+ beam tick, that means your health was so low that you would have died from a 2k Force Pulse.
The beam is barely stronger than it was pre-update 35, and people weren't complaining then because it wasn't a good spell at all, so nobody was dying from it.
Now people notice it because it's one of the only things that templars have going for them, so they finally started using it.3 -
Amerises✭✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »… but with it building up to it so it cannot immediately explode a low health target the way it does, which does not seem to be thematically/logically/mechanically correct.
It may not seem thematically, logically, or mechanically correct to you, however … I think definitionally what an “execute” is 🤔
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FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »I'm tired of dying to beam peck, where the first tick executes for 10k+ damage but the beam doesn't even visually bother to show up. The beam damage should scale over its lifetime so that it offers counterplay, and let it tick faster to feel more consistent and compensate the damage loss.
If it is currently doing 3 ticks of damage over its duration (I may be wrong), then make it do 5 over the same duration, and make the first tick deal 20% of the damage a tick currently does. Then each subsequent tick will deal another 20%. So 20/40/60/80/100. That's the same overall damage but with it building up to it so it cannot immediately explode a low health target the way it does, which does not seem to be thematically/logically/mechanically correct.
Your suggestion does not make any sense at all. The purpose of a finisher is to finish off a low health target, where the enemies reaction is crucial to its survival. Your iteration totally fails that whole concept, giving the enemy too much time to react, heal, block, recover before the beam deals the needed damage to finish off.2 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »I'm tired of dying to beam peck, where the first tick executes for 10k+ damage but the beam doesn't even visually bother to show up. The beam damage should scale over its lifetime so that it offers counterplay, and let it tick faster to feel more consistent and compensate the damage loss.
If it is currently doing 3 ticks of damage over its duration (I may be wrong), then make it do 5 over the same duration, and make the first tick deal 20% of the damage a tick currently does. Then each subsequent tick will deal another 20%. So 20/40/60/80/100. That's the same overall damage but with it building up to it so it cannot immediately explode a low health target the way it does, which does not seem to be thematically/logically/mechanically correct.
that would make the skill significantly worse than it already is
"scaling" dmg like that has crits disabled, so your basically saying the skill should never crit with that suggestion
the dmg technically already ramps up over time, as the target loses health, the execute starts kicking in harder, so in most cases the 2nd and 3rd tick will do significantly more dmg than the first tick
(it is currently 3 ticks of dmg, in 1.8 sec of the channel, or dmg being applied every 0.6 sec)plays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Balance PVE and PVP separately. If beam is nerfed, templar just becomes useless in PVE since that's 50% of our damage after the other nerfs to the class.0 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭If we talk about balance and PvP...how can we complain about templars when we have Proc Stam sorcs doing million of damage just through using the same 3 sets: WoF, Master DW, Vate. It's a no skill set up with the same actions on repeat.
Sort this out and then let's talk about plars and their deadly combo0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭If we talk about balance and PvP...how can we complain about templars when we have Proc Stam sorcs doing million of damage just through using the same 3 sets: WoF, Master DW, Vate. It's a no skill set up with the same actions on repeat.
Sort this out and then let's talk about plars and their deadly combo
Just because OP gear exists doesn't mean abilities and classes need to be forgotten. The forums are big enough for all of it. To each their own-- thread that is.0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If we talk about balance and PvP...how can we complain about templars when we have Proc Stam sorcs doing million of damage just through using the same 3 sets: WoF, Master DW, Vate. It's a no skill set up with the same actions on repeat.
Sort this out and then let's talk about plars and their deadly combo
Just because OP gear exists doesn't mean abilities and classes need to be forgotten. The forums are big enough for all of it. To each their own-- thread that is.
Forums are big enough. It's the dev team size or ability for scope that concerns me.0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »If we talk about balance and PvP...how can we complain about templars when we have Proc Stam sorcs doing million of damage just through using the same 3 sets: WoF, Master DW, Vate. It's a no skill set up with the same actions on repeat.
Sort this out and then let's talk about plars and their deadly combo
Just because OP gear exists doesn't mean abilities and classes need to be forgotten. The forums are big enough for all of it. To each their own-- thread that is.
Forums are big enough. It's the dev team size or ability for scope that concerns me.
I agree. But so does that mean we owe it to eachother to come to a nerf-DK thread and mention how strong NB is? Or would that just be off topic and rude?
Let's not steal eachother's scopes while trying to get ZOS to look through our own, ya know?2 -
xHotguy6pack✭✭✭People really out here crying about ranged Templar. ESO players have really gotten so bad/casual that they cry about something that's literally one of the easiest things to counter.... It's called roll dodge or use an immovable. Can't believe that needs to be explained or even said.4
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OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you roll dodge you're gonna get fried. But yes use an immovable potion... What about the other 75% of the fight?1 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
My bad I forgot we were only talking about 1v1s.
Just stay topped off on health and don't use potions until someone throws a spear at you. Wow I feel so silly.0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
My bad I forgot we were only talking about 1v1s.
Just stay topped off on health and don't use potions until someone throws a spear at you. Wow I feel so silly.
Are you expecting a recovery for being zerged or at least focused by superior numbers? I mean what expectations are we discussing here?Edited by TechMaybeHic on August 17, 2023 4:43PM0 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »
My bad I forgot we were only talking about 1v1s.
Just stay topped off on health and don't use potions until someone throws a spear at you. Wow I feel so silly.
The best you can balance PvP around are 1v1s though, since any root, any snare, any cc that ignores core combat abilities gets OP (at that point both fossilize and streak are far more detrimental and penalizing). Getting caught by any of the above mentioned mechinacs puts you at a huge disadvantage while outnumbered while not as much in a 1v1.
1v1 templar is not the best class right now and lacks as others mentioned burst potential. Even combining backlash, meteor and a javelin is not comparable what other classes can do. Additionally, it is very easy staying high health against templars, since you pretty much only have to outheal a spammable due to lack of burst. So if you get caught with javelin plus beam in a 1v1, its most likely a skill issue, since you either dropped your buffs or healing over time to get to this point. And if you get caught by beam and javelin in an outnumbered situation, pretty much any other cc or root with an execute would have caught you too.
Hate to break it, but skill issues should not be the reason for nerfs.
Untill templar gets a strong spammable again or burst potential via backlash, beam will remain a very crucial part for any templar to make it perform at all.3 -
Amerises✭✭✭✭FirmamentOfStars wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »
My bad I forgot we were only talking about 1v1s.
Just stay topped off on health and don't use potions until someone throws a spear at you. Wow I feel so silly.
The best you can balance PvP around are 1v1s though, since any root, any snare, any cc that ignores core combat abilities gets OP (at that point both fossilize and streak are far more detrimental and penalizing). Getting caught by any of the above mentioned mechinacs puts you at a huge disadvantage while outnumbered while not as much in a 1v1.
1v1 templar is not the best class right now and lacks as others mentioned burst potential. Even combining backlash, meteor and a javelin is not comparable what other classes can do. Additionally, it is very easy staying high health against templars, since you pretty much only have to outheal a spammable due to lack of burst. So if you get caught with javelin plus beam in a 1v1, its most likely a skill issue, since you either dropped your buffs or healing over time to get to this point. And if you get caught by beam and javelin in an outnumbered situation, pretty much any other cc or root with an execute would have caught you too.
Hate to break it, but skill issues should not be the reason for nerfs.
Untill templar gets a strong spammable again or burst potential via backlash, beam will remain a very crucial part for any templar to make it perform at all.
Agree with all of that. Also, would like to add I hate using the combo and would rather have better spammable and backlash damage as before… Jabs, to sweep ult, to backlash boom at least took good targeting; even keep the smaller cone of jabs, that’s fine how it is now. This counter was also easily counterable with LoS and staying defensive for 4 sec. But at least it felt like we had a nice burst potential…0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »
My bad I forgot we were only talking about 1v1s.
Just stay topped off on health and don't use potions until someone throws a spear at you. Wow I feel so silly.
Are you expecting a recovery for being zerged or at least focused by superior numbers? I mean what expectations are we discussing here?
Currently? I'm just making snide remarks in response to snide remarks, lol. Just fielding and discarding all the cliche stuff people say when they disagree.
My expectations are simply that every combo, especially involving an execute, should either be dodgeable or blockable. It's important to counter-play and therefore important to maintaining a skill gap. And in this scenario I think it's made worse by the fact that it's ranged.
I do understand that templars aren't the best right now. But if you've never met a templar with enough damage to put you into execute -shrug- then we just know different people.
Anyway, this isn't honestly an important issue to me. I just like browsing the forums and I put my two cents in. Easy for me to back down from this.
Oh and, one last thing, I do agree that 1v1s are the most important metric to balance classes by. But you can't just ignore everything else because the everything else happens more often.
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FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭
Then you did not interrupt them. Any interrupted ability is set on a cooldown and cant be recast again right away.1 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FirmamentOfStars wrote: »
Then you did not interrupt them. Any interrupted ability is set on a cooldown and cant be recast again right away.
Ok so this feature is still in the game. How long is the CD? I do interrupt them as I am playing a bash build and they are stunned when this happens. But then the next skill they cast is again the beam, I am talking about situations 1vsX so maybe 3 seconds already passed...Because I can!0 -
UsualSurrender✭✭✭As a general rule: Whoever you are, regardless of how good you are, the enemy always casts faster than you.2
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Galeriano✭✭✭✭✭
✭FirmamentOfStars wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »
My bad I forgot we were only talking about 1v1s.
Just stay topped off on health and don't use potions until someone throws a spear at you. Wow I feel so silly.
The best you can balance PvP around are 1v1s though, since any root, any snare, any cc that ignores core combat abilities gets OP (at that point both fossilize and streak are far more detrimental and penalizing). Getting caught by any of the above mentioned mechinacs puts you at a huge disadvantage while outnumbered while not as much in a 1v1.
1v1 templar is not the best class right now and lacks as others mentioned burst potential. Even combining backlash, meteor and a javelin is not comparable what other classes can do. Additionally, it is very easy staying high health against templars, since you pretty much only have to outheal a spammable due to lack of burst. So if you get caught with javelin plus beam in a 1v1, its most likely a skill issue, since you either dropped your buffs or healing over time to get to this point. And if you get caught by beam and javelin in an outnumbered situation, pretty much any other cc or root with an execute would have caught you too.
Hate to break it, but skill issues should not be the reason for nerfs.
Untill templar gets a strong spammable again or burst potential via backlash, beam will remain a very crucial part for any templar to make it perform at all.
1v1 is actually the worst way to balance the game around. Duels themselves are being usually performed in setups that heavily differ from actual PvP setups. There are builds that are completly useless in duels but can be extremly effective in 1vX or XvX. On the other hand many 1v1 setups can be completly useless in open PvP. Creating balance around 1v1 results also completly diminishes existance of supportive features like crossheals. !v1 templar in alik'r may not be the best class but that doesn't make it trash in real PvP. It's far from that. 1v1 give close to none information about class effectiveness in all aspects of PvP. It just tells You how strong that class is in staged 1v1.
If You have a team that have all the other classes different than DK and templar You are telling me You would take DK over a templar because DK performs better in duels?Edited by Galeriano on August 26, 2023 10:09AM0
