Beam+javelin is just broken. One of them should be nerfed.

gariondavey

Baconlad wrote: »

Run deadly, warmaiden, oakensoul.

Full damage towards DoT. Slot soul assault for meme damage or meteor for kills. Dark flare for damage when ultimates down.

Open with one or two flares, javelin, beam spam till healing debuff falls off. If targets not dead...run. turn and retry.

For ultimate cast flare, ultimate javelin, beam.

You'll find soul assault critting for over 10k or higher, seen 15k. RO hits for 12k for all crits in one cast AT FULL HEALTH and scaling more as it goes. Mind you this doesn't include burning light or light attacks...the build freaking slaps.

I commonly die...but man getting three times the kills is so gud. Only defense you need is honor the dead and mist.

This is not a good idea. Please everyone do not try this against experienced players or in high mmr bgs. You will get obliterated. This is not how you build a character capable of surviving.

Alharion

Zama666 wrote: »

We should nerf everything that causes damage or healing or speed or fun or <insert your own>

So many things kill me in Cyrodiil. I keep playing, try to get better, and slowly, it is working.

There are also some incredible player who have dedicated time and effort into becoming amazing.
Getting my ass kicked by them, learning experience!

Don't change a thing. ZOS keeps changing things up, and I am ok with it.

Z

Sure, players using spells that can do 480% more damage are incredible players, even a NB doesn't have that. Magic does damage effortlessly in PVP while STAM players won't even have penetration, not to mention an Arcanist with 0 gameplay who smokes everyone with an imo and a ray yeah really incredible player, ZOS is completely outdated by their game and they aren't even able to fix it anymore and it's getting ready to make another MMO, just lol.

They wanted to make the game free to play, but here again, they're still managing to make it very selective between what can and can't be played, not to mention the worst part where magic is predominant because there are more magic spells than srt stam, a really messed-up game...

El_Borracho

Alharion wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

We should nerf everything that causes damage or healing or speed or fun or <insert your own>

So many things kill me in Cyrodiil. I keep playing, try to get better, and slowly, it is working.

There are also some incredible player who have dedicated time and effort into becoming amazing.
Getting my ass kicked by them, learning experience!

Don't change a thing. ZOS keeps changing things up, and I am ok with it.

Z

Sure, players using spells that can do 480% more damage are incredible players, even a NB doesn't have that. Magic does damage effortlessly in PVP while STAM players won't even have penetration, not to mention an Arcanist with 0 gameplay who smokes everyone with an imo and a ray yeah really incredible player, ZOS is completely outdated by their game and they aren't even able to fix it anymore and it's getting ready to make another MMO, just lol.

They wanted to make the game free to play, but here again, they're still managing to make it very selective between what can and can't be played, not to mention the worst part where magic is predominant because there are more magic spells than srt stam, a really messed-up game...

Dude, what? I have a stamsorc that has absolutely no problems in PVP. You know you can interrupt both beams, right? Templar and Arcanist. To the point the beams just point you in the direction of who to kill

SandandStars

Yesterday whenever I got hit with Toppling Charge or Javelin I was flat on my back unnable to do anything for a solid 6 seconds or more.

Anybody else having this happen? Is it a new bug?

It sonetimes happens with Incap, but never with toppling or javelin before?

TechMaybeHic

SandandStars wrote: »

Yesterday whenever I got hit with Toppling Charge or Javelin I was flat on my back unnable to do anything for a solid 6 seconds or more.

Anybody else having this happen? Is it a new bug?

It sonetimes happens with Incap, but never with toppling or javelin before?

Not with that, but I believe it. A lot of stuff in this game where you just take it and move on. Really prevents people from going full damage more often

Udrath

Current Templar patch buff rotation:
Nerf jabs, buff power of the light
Nerf power of the light, buff beam
Next on the list… nerf beam, buff blazing shield lol

I just want minor brutality. Why do templars only get minor sorcery? Why not both.

FirmamentOfStars

I see where OP is coming from, the combo of javelin, beam and meteor can be a little bit annoying. But to be honest, it is not very dangerous unless you are outnumbered. But for the sake of balance, looking at skills and classes in a scenario with multiple enemies, is not a good way to justify nerfs or buffs. If you are outnumbered, pretty much everything becomes annoying:
Talons and fossilize while you try moving and you are very open and vulnerable, ranged executes like beam and mages wrath always feel unfair outnumbered, being defiled while outnumbered is annoying, having snake in the stars on you recovering from multiple enemies is the same.
But facing a templar 1v1 is not an issue at all even with above mentioned combo. If a javelin plus beam catches you, it means you didnt defend properly before being hit with it. Obviously beam hurts as execute, but templars struggle to get their enemies below 50%. So as said, if you get killed by that, you didnt play properly before being hit by it. Even with meteor (i hopped on pts a few days ago and tested against sweatlords) only adds like a whopping 5k damage to the whole thing.
Totally being honest now: beam and javelin are fine, but feel unfair being ranged and when outnumbered. But the skills are totally fine looking ar it in a fair fight 1v1, while outnumbered pretty much everything becomes annoying.

birdik

beam deserves nerf 100%
these god damn piece of shiets plars now play full bunker waiting press to kill button, make it start work only from 25% of health and nerf percentage

FirmamentOfStars

birdik wrote: »

beam deserves nerf 100%
these god damn piece of shiets plars now play full bunker waiting press to kill button, make it start work only from 25% of health and nerf percentage

This sounds like zerg mentality, because your described situation only happens in zergs and bgs. A turtling templar will not bring you into execute range at all, so waiting to press that one button, only works when its and XvX fight, where pretty much everything is annoying and OP in some way.

mmtaniac

Just as i say before ,people want templar weak. Our class must not exist we must be bad and be punch bag. Templar damage is joke right now ,beam is only thing that work. Jabs is good ability but countered by too many easy to get tools.
Javelin alone deal almost no damage. This combo is good ,too good but Elemental Sus + Master Dual wield is too good too and still people cry about templar not this op combination.

TechMaybeHic

Just had a templar trying to javelin and beam me. Was kind of funny honestly as Im a charge into jabs, classic templar still and I closed in and killed them without having to use an ult. FWIWl I did finish them with beam of my own, but not the mentioned "combo." I guess if someone is hitting you with real damage to get you there, it might actually hurt

Oblivion_Protocol

There’s an odd thing I noticed with Templars. I’ve seen Templars that could kill you in three seconds easily. I’ve also seen Templars that could survive absolute mailings from half a dozen people at once. You know what I’ve never seen?

A Templar that could do both.

Don’t get me wrong. There are strong Templars with survivability. But it’s not the all-consuming force of a DK, the oppressive healing and CC of a Warden, the insane burst of a NB, or the raw pressure and speed of a Master’s dual wield/Vateshran hybrid Sorc (Necros get to cheer from the sidelines).

No, instead damage comes in at a trickle while they fort up inside their rune and desperately refresh Living Dark. Or the damage bursts you down, but only while they’re not busy running for their lives.

Meteor-Javelin-Beam can feel overwhelming…unless you do like me and pop an immovability pot once you see the very clear and obvious indicator around your feet that Meteor is coming. Outside of that one specific combo, Templar is not in a good place in comparison to almost every other class. Nerfs will only make things worse.

mmtaniac

Templar's can't be both ,you must choose , you are glassy destroyer or tanky tank from tank town. Templar is probably most balanced class on pvp right now, but still people want to nerf because we are not punch bags.

I can deal massive damage but every item sets will be focused on this and 1 my bad and im dead.

Now take DK or Stamden they just click shalks or dots and ta dah milions damage.

If you make universal templar build , you will be just averege. Our tools not give us possibility to be eveything. Passives and some abilities are problem. We still have too many bad passives. My most hated one are Illuminate and Prism why this is two passives not one like DK have Mountain Blessing it's 100% similiar and still we have it in 4 skill points not 2. I hate how easy fix is not fixed already. Give us something usefull. Again soul gem passive it's useless!

JerBearESO

maxjapank wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Templar needs power shifted out of beam and into jabs perhaps. Beam is broken ATM the beamplars decide the winning team in most BGs....

Absolutely not. Before Radiants base dmg was buffed, you rarely saw a Templar use it in pvp because of how poor it was. Enemy players would just laugh off its dmg. Now when it’s been viable again, players are complaining because it’s something they can’t ignore. I’m with you on buffing jabs more. But let’s not nerf something that is performing exactly how it’s supposed to be performing.

Shifting power out could be by reducing execute scaling, not base damage

birdik

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

TechMaybeHic

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

mmtaniac

Try play templar first after playing DK and try to see templar position how our damage feel take it serious. Our damage is good against noob players only and mostly with good players it's not enough we have not enough pressure solo. That's why most players are focus on executes only in their builds ,because doing damage not work good enough. I personally play classic Stamplar with jabs + crits can do some damage but against current tank meta is still joke damage.

birdik

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

TechMaybeHic

birdik wrote: »

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

Block canceling for 1 tick does not mean instant. There is a delay that makes the beam almost take a second before it even goes off for the first tick. If you are low enough for a single tic to get you; you really lost already anyway

Galeriano

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

Block canceling for 1 tick does not mean instant. There is a delay that makes the beam almost take a second before it even goes off for the first tick. If you are low enough for a single tic to get you; you really lost already anyway

Let's not spread misinformation. First tick does not happen after a second. It happens after 0,4 sec of ability being registered. Next two ticks happen after ~0,7 sec intervals.

TechMaybeHic

Galeriano wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

Block canceling for 1 tick does not mean instant. There is a delay that makes the beam almost take a second before it even goes off for the first tick. If you are low enough for a single tic to get you; you really lost already anyway

Let's not spread misinformation. First tick does not happen after a second. It happens after 0,4 sec of ability being registered. Next two ticks happen after ~0,7 sec intervals.

Sorry I didn't attempt to time it in perfect conditions. If you're in Cyrodiil; it certainly feels like a second and players you target usually break free into a block cast heal. Some do react like they do a petrify and break-free into roll dodge and cloak; which obviously does not help, but that's not an ability problem

Anyway, I digress. Even perfect conditions; half a second is not truly instant

Galeriano

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

Block canceling for 1 tick does not mean instant. There is a delay that makes the beam almost take a second before it even goes off for the first tick. If you are low enough for a single tic to get you; you really lost already anyway

Let's not spread misinformation. First tick does not happen after a second. It happens after 0,4 sec of ability being registered. Next two ticks happen after ~0,7 sec intervals.

Sorry I didn't attempt to time it in perfect conditions. If you're in Cyrodiil; it certainly feels like a second and players you target usually break free into a block cast heal. Some do react like they do a petrify and break-free into roll dodge and cloak; which obviously does not help, but that's not an ability problem

Anyway, I digress. Even perfect conditions; half a second is not truly instant

If You are in Cyrodill every ability will experience a delay so even isnant cast abilities will register their damage tick slower by the same amount that beam will so beam is not some excaption here. It's just how lag affects every ability in the game.

What is truly instant than? Because if You mean no delay at all than no ability in the game is truly instant. Let's look at ranged executes for example since this is a category beam belongs to. Sorc's mage's wrath/endless fury, despite being an instant cast ability, hits after 0,8 sec from being registered. Nightblade's impale hits after around 0,45 sec. This actually makes templars execute one of the fastest if not the fastest ranged execute in the game. Knowing this do You consider mages wrath or impale "truly instant"? Most damage dealing instant cast abilities in the game are coded to have 0,2-0,8 sec delay between ability registration and actuall damage event.

TechMaybeHic

Galeriano wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

Block canceling for 1 tick does not mean instant. There is a delay that makes the beam almost take a second before it even goes off for the first tick. If you are low enough for a single tic to get you; you really lost already anyway

Let's not spread misinformation. First tick does not happen after a second. It happens after 0,4 sec of ability being registered. Next two ticks happen after ~0,7 sec intervals.

Sorry I didn't attempt to time it in perfect conditions. If you're in Cyrodiil; it certainly feels like a second and players you target usually break free into a block cast heal. Some do react like they do a petrify and break-free into roll dodge and cloak; which obviously does not help, but that's not an ability problem

Anyway, I digress. Even perfect conditions; half a second is not truly instant

If You are in Cyrodill every ability will experience a delay so even isnant cast abilities will register their damage tick slower by the same amount that beam will so beam is not some excaption here. It's just how lag affects every ability in the game.

What is truly instant than? Because if You mean no delay at all than no ability in the game is truly instant. Let's look at ranged executes for example since this is a category beam belongs to. Sorc's mage's wrath/endless fury, despite being an instant cast ability, hits after 0,8 sec from being registered. Nightblade's impale hits after around 0,45 sec. This actually makes templars execute one of the fastest if not the fastest ranged execute in the game. Knowing this do You consider mages wrath or impale "truly instant"? Most damage dealing instant cast abilities in the game are coded to have 0,2-0,8 sec delay between ability registration and actuall damage event.

Maybe we should start with what you mean by ability registration as I can assure you from time I push the button on either of those skills, I see them fire faster than Radiant Oppression. Sorcs damage obviously is slower by design as it can preload on the target to burst automatically when the targets in execute range. But I am taking from button press; not a projectile speed.

Galeriano

Dekrypted wrote: »

Short Answer: No.

Slightly Longer Answer: Both abilities have counters and you yourself have already stated that the class is not in the best spot. So why nerf the class more?

Instead of arguing for nerfs, argue for buffs. A dodge roll or an interrupt ability/bash stops these abilities from being effective. I'd even suggest finding a templar friend to practice fighting against. But a nerf? Please. We do not need more of those. They're heavy handed and never solve the issue.

Something Something Dont bring a hammer to solve a problem a scalpel would solve Something Someting

As for counters we can argue that every ability in the game have a counter so by Your logic there shouldn't be a single overperorming ability or combo in the game. We both know that's not true and existance of counters does not completly diminish strenght of certain ability or combo. Saying that dodge or bash is effective counterplay is very disingenuine. All that templar needs to counter this is just keeping 7+ meters distance. I really don't remember when was the last time my beam was strategically interrupted. If it was it was usually just by someone spamming ability with interrupt built in it. Having beam occasionally interrupted is really not that heavy price to pay considering how powerfull tool beam is. Ask Yourself honestly is Your beam being interrupted that often to even make this an argument? Mine isn't. When it comes to javelin You will eventually get the knockback anyway since enemy can't dodge it endlesly and knockback is the most desyncing and poorly coded type of CC in the game and idea of making ranged knockback ability unblockable is just ridicolous.

Fact that I've said that class is not in the best spot doesn't mean class is in a weak spot. Truth is if not for a DK, templar would be sitting at the top among one or two other setups. Right now this class all things and PvP modes considered is just slightly behind the top.

Problem with templar is that currently it became a prisoner of beam and to the lesser extent javelin. ZoS is nerfing other abilities that class have just to keep these two untouched which is hurting the classs in longer run by making it repetitive, boring and crutch based. I would be more than happy to see beam or/and javeling getting nerfs just to get buff to damage scaling on backlash. Sometimes to recive a buff You need to recive a nerf first.

Galeriano

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Make it 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Beam's problems are:
Its first tick hit immediately
You cant dodge it completely
Too high % of hp for good damage

I think if you'd use it, you wouldn't call anything about the first tick as "immediate"

I have plar and i used it you can cast and block weave for 1 tick ez

Block canceling for 1 tick does not mean instant. There is a delay that makes the beam almost take a second before it even goes off for the first tick. If you are low enough for a single tic to get you; you really lost already anyway

Let's not spread misinformation. First tick does not happen after a second. It happens after 0,4 sec of ability being registered. Next two ticks happen after ~0,7 sec intervals.

Sorry I didn't attempt to time it in perfect conditions. If you're in Cyrodiil; it certainly feels like a second and players you target usually break free into a block cast heal. Some do react like they do a petrify and break-free into roll dodge and cloak; which obviously does not help, but that's not an ability problem

Anyway, I digress. Even perfect conditions; half a second is not truly instant

If You are in Cyrodill every ability will experience a delay so even isnant cast abilities will register their damage tick slower by the same amount that beam will so beam is not some excaption here. It's just how lag affects every ability in the game.

What is truly instant than? Because if You mean no delay at all than no ability in the game is truly instant. Let's look at ranged executes for example since this is a category beam belongs to. Sorc's mage's wrath/endless fury, despite being an instant cast ability, hits after 0,8 sec from being registered. Nightblade's impale hits after around 0,45 sec. This actually makes templars execute one of the fastest if not the fastest ranged execute in the game. Knowing this do You consider mages wrath or impale "truly instant"? Most damage dealing instant cast abilities in the game are coded to have 0,2-0,8 sec delay between ability registration and actuall damage event.

Maybe we should start with what you mean by ability registration as I can assure you from time I push the button on either of those skills, I see them fire faster than Radiant Oppression. Sorcs damage obviously is slower by design as it can preload on the target to burst automatically when the targets in execute range. But I am taking from button press; not a projectile speed.

What do You mean by skills firing? You mean animations occuring on Your screen? That is the most unreliable way of judging ability speed due to animation desyncs. Beam for example in laggy enviroment can deal damage with first tick before animation even occurs on Your screen. What I mean by saying about skills firing after X amount of time from ability registering is the time it takes damage event to occur after server registered that You clicked something. Every ability have that value coded in itself and beam value is one of the fastest among ranged executes. Mage's fury will always hit the target with damage event after 0,8 sec of server registering that You clicked it beam will do the same after 0,4 sec. You need to also add desync(lag) value to this numbers so if You are for example lagging like crazy time between You clicking mages fury and enemy being actively hit by it may be even higher than 1 second. First tick of the beam within the same lag conditions will always hit faster than mages wrath no matter what You see on the screen.

Galeriano

Dekrypted wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

As for counters we can argue that every ability in the game have a counter so by Your logic there shouldn't be a single overperorming ability or combo in the game. We both know that's not true and existance of counters does not completly diminish strenght of certain ability or combo. Saying that dodge or bash is effective counterplay is very disingenuine. All that templar needs to counter this is just keeping 7+ meters distance. I really don't remember when was the last time my beam was strategically interrupted. If it was it was usually just by someone spamming ability with interrupt built in it. Having beam occasionally interrupted is really not that heavy price to pay considering how powerfull tool beam is. Ask Yourself honestly is Your beam being interrupted that often to even make this an argument? Mine isn't. When it comes to javelin You will eventually get the knockback anyway since enemy can't dodge it endlesly and knockback is the most desyncing and poorly coded type of CC in the game and idea of making ranged knockback ability unblockable is just ridicolous.

Fact that I've said that class is not in the best spot doesn't mean class is in a weak spot. Truth is if not for a DK, templar would be sitting at the top among one or two other setups. Right now this class all things and PvP modes considered is just slightly behind the top.

Problem with templar is that currently it became a prisoner of beam and to the lesser extent javelin. ZoS is nerfing other abilities that class have just to keep these two untouched which is hurting the classs in longer run by making it repetitive, boring and crutch based. I would be more than happy to see beam or/and javeling getting nerfs just to get buff to damage scaling on backlash. Sometimes to recive a buff You need to recive a nerf first.

I'm not sure who you're fighting but a large portion of the population doesn't even know that it can be interrupted. I literally got paid 100k for telling someone just 2 weeks ago and after I told them, they had alot of success interrupting the skill in our fights. A players lack of knowledge in mechanics shouldnt be a justification for a nerf to a class that has already been nerfed to a large degree.

Your second statement is laughably incorrect regarding "If not for DK, Templar would be sitting at the top..." for the simple fact Nightblades, Wardens, and Arcanists exist. I dont want to be the guy to sit here and say "Skill Issue" when it comes to handling the javelin but with enough practice, it is possible to dodge it. Enemies can dodge alot more than you give credit to. Look at... Nightblades. Your view of the class does not match the reality of the class.

Well if large portion of population doesn't even know it can be interrupted than it's just one more adventage of the beam side. And let's be honest preventing it from being interrupted by those who know it's interruptable also isn't that hard. How many people know it's interruptable have nothing to do with raw ability strenght when combined with things like javelin. Your argument about people being uneducated in countering something can be used literally against every overperforming ability or combo in the game so by Your logic nothing deserves a nerf and everything is balanced. As I said before we both know that's not truth and same goes for Your argumentation. As I've already mentioned templar has been nerfed and hold back from getting buffs also because of the fact how broken beam and javelin can be.

Fact that you find my second statement laughable doesn't mean it's laughable it may also mean You are biased towards different agenda. Reality is if we consider all PvP game modes and solo plus group play templar right now is pretty high and one of the main things that keeps templar from being higher is the need to build around the fact DK exist. I don't want to be the guy to sit here and say "learn to read issue" but I never said dodging javeling is impossible. Thing is eventually You will hit someone with javelin anyway. it's funny that as a example of people avoiding something with dodge You mention nightblade which is a class with way way more tools supporting dodge rolling than any other class have and even nightblade can be eventually hit with a javelin. Let's agree to disagree because in my opinion Your view not only on templar but also on some other classes doesn't match reality.

rabidmyers

geonsocal wrote: »

roll dodging is your friend...

javelin is simply for trolling - it works well, one of my favorite skills ever...I'm sad I can't use it anymore to knock people through the grating on second floor outposts and keeps

it was funny, for years people didn't figure that that was a thing that could happen to them - it was great...

very helpful in dealing with 2 Handed weapon spammers and wardens trying to hit you with their bugs...

a get off me skill...

the jesus beam is easy to break line of sight...really easy...

...

Galeriano

Dekrypted wrote: »

Um... okay.

Galeriano wrote: »

Well if large portion of population doesn't even know it can be interrupted than it's just one more adventage of the beam side.

This is in the tutorial.. that's where I learned that it could be interrupted back in 2014

Galeriano wrote: »

so by Your logic nothing deserves a nerf and everything is balanced.

Your words, not mine. Feel free to check out my comment and thread history. I'm not seeing any accuracy in your words.

Galeriano wrote: »

Reality is if we consider all PvP game modes and solo plus group play templar right now is pretty high and one of the main things that keeps templar from being higher is the need to build around the fact DK exist.

We can agree to disagree if you want, but at the end of the day I'm going to say you're wrong, because you are. All points I make come from the 20,000 hours+ of experience I have primarily rooted in PvP across all forms of it.

Galeriano wrote: »

You mention nightblade which is a class with way way more tools supporting dodge rolling than any other class have and even nightblade can be eventually hit with a javelin.

I'm quite sure I mentioned more than just nigbtblades... nightblades are a prime example, but not the only one.

Dekrypted wrote: »

Your second statement is laughably incorrect regarding "If not for DK, Templar would be sitting at the top..." for the simple fact Nightblades, Wardens, and Arcanists exist.

Galeriano wrote: »

You are biased towards different agenda.

Please elaborate on what agenda I'm biased towards...

This being in the tutorial doesn't change a fact large portion of playerbase according to Your words have no idea how to deal with it. Your argument really have no weight to it. It's like saying that light attack weaving is mentioned in the game so everyone should know how to do it thus devs shouldn't touch it.

Your logic not mine. If You are saying that something is balanced only because some counters exist than by Your logic everything is balanced because everything have some counters.

20k hours of gameplay still won't fix personal biases. I also have around 20k hours with majority of it spent in PvP so i really don't buy argumentation based on that factor because I know how meaningless it is in reality. I've seen people with thousands of hours of gameplay claiming lots of wierd things throughout the years. You can always find someone with similar time spend that will have opposite opinion to Yours so time spend really isn't a valid argument. If anything mentioning it first in a debate usually sounds like desperate attempt to validate Yourself.

You have wierd tendency to quote certain fragments of my comment and respond to a different parts of it right after. In that particular fragment which was talking about avoiding things with dodge You mentioned nightblade specifically by the name and no other class. You mentioned other classes in the part saying about overall tier list. It looks like You have issues with following Your own argumentation.

Please read and quote full sentences instead of taking parts out of context and making comments based on these parts. it will help You to better understand what I've said.

Zodiarkslayer

This discussion, or at the least a part of it, highlights again how connecting PvE and PvP only works on paper and is a really big mess in reality. 😕

Everybody suffers.☝️

ZOS needs to change that, if they want to save PvP. Its as simple as that. 🤷‍♂️

OBJnoob

I've been away from this discussion for a while and I was too lazy to catch up... But I'm curious how we got to the point where now it's all just a L2P issue.

There are counters and ways to deal with everything. That doesn't mean something isn't OP.

You can kite a corrosive DK. Still needs looking at. You can dodge assassins will. Still needs looking at. You can use a potion to detect invisible enemies. Still gets complained about. You can purge siege... Still gets complained about. You can stand far away from all of your allies... But bombers still get complained about.

Some of these things need fixing and some of them don't.

In this case we have a hard CCing ability that can't be blocked combined with a very powerful ranged execute that can't be dodged. It's a pretty potent combo. More potent still if you pair it with Comet in the hands of a player that knows what they're doing.

And that's what gets left out of some of these "learn to play," comments. Suppose the templar also knows how to play, y'know? If I can't dodge it, can't block it, and the assailant is too far away to interrupt then what exactly am I supposed to learn? To never have my potion on cooldown? To always have a ranged interrupt slotted?

The weakness of templars, overall, is drastically exaggerated. The main problem they have is that their combo is repetitive and boring. But that's exactly what their problem was before too... Just for whatever reason jabbing was seen as cooler than beaming.

I see no reason to buff them while this combo functions as it does. The last thing we need is for it to be easier for them to put you into execute range. From the only class that has a real way (purge,) to fight against all these dang procs and status effects to boot.

I say either adjust this combo... Or leave it as is, and never get another dang thing. Triggering, I know, but that's how I see it.