Current DPS Warden Class Pain Points (Pre Update 39 PTS)

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

My main is a stam bleed warden. It has basically no problem with sustain, in fact when compared to my old long time templar main, the sustain is godly. Of course it does have problems, it's just that my build is at a perfect spot; it doesn't run out of magicka or stamina, but adding one more stam skill to either bar would make it cost too much stam, same with magicka. There are problems there, when the class is already underperforming.

The major and minor breach of deep fissure will outclass sub assault every day of the week, even if sub assault gets bleed damage. I can't see any buffs or changes that would buff stam warden in terms of changing physical/poison damage abilities to bleed, since that's only one skill. Magic damage to Cold damage would be a big boon to the magicka warden, which is in an infinitely better position than stam warden.

If anything, the class just needs better sustain, some buffs across its skill structure, a rework of cliff racer since it looks and feels terrible to use, and honestly some more stamina skills. For example, Impaling Shards and its morphs being cold damage makes sense. But it's also thematically using ice spikes to deal damage, so making one morph a bleed damage ability that uses stam, or even better, costs magicka, or even weirder, costs your lowest resource like with some Arcanist skills, would really give Stam (bleed) Warden some more stuff to work with.

Yes we all want the magicka abilities to be cold damage. But stam bleed builds are lost in the nosebleeds here as quite possibly the lowest performing class choice in the game.

The problem with changing sub assault to a bleed is that there are currently no passives that buff bleeds in any way, but they definitely should include bleed support on bond with nature or savage beast.

Yeah they need to change some passives to buff bleed damage but even if they don't change nothing it could be good with dro'zakar's claws, i think sub assault is the last skill that need to be change to bleed so i hope they change that

Yeah, it won't take too much to make bleed stamden have more support, but frost warden would take more effort regarding animal companions skills.

Tyrant_Tim

My honest opinion, the best change that ZOS could do for this class would be to untether it from Vvardenfell.

How it makes sense to the developers that Warden calls a Cliffracer to help while traveling in Summerset is beyond me.

Wardens are Mystics… Cliffracers, Shalks, and Fetcherflies don’t come from a daedric realm, they come from Morrowind.

ESO_Nightingale

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

My honest opinion, the best change that ZOS could do for this class would be to untether it from Vvardenfell.

How it makes sense to the developers that Warden calls a Cliffracer to help while traveling in Summerset is beyond me.

Wardens are Mystics… Cliffracers, Shalks, and Fetcherflies don’t come from a daedric realm, they come from Morrowind.

That change would be great, but it only helps thematically. The class has additional problems in dps design and sustain.

Tyrant_Tim

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

My honest opinion, the best change that ZOS could do for this class would be to untether it from Vvardenfell.

How it makes sense to the developers that Warden calls a Cliffracer to help while traveling in Summerset is beyond me.

Wardens are Mystics… Cliffracers, Shalks, and Fetcherflies don’t come from a daedric realm, they come from Morrowind.

That change would be great, but it only helps thematically. The class has additional problems in dps design and sustain.

You’re right, it definitely does. Although one has to admit that the class has hit a pretty decent spot for every role outside of DPS in PvE, it’s a mandatory Healer in all trials groups and is the best tank for 4-man Arenas. If they could get it’s DPS in line, or at least competitive with Necromancer, the class would be in a generally great spot.

ESO_Nightingale

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

My honest opinion, the best change that ZOS could do for this class would be to untether it from Vvardenfell.

How it makes sense to the developers that Warden calls a Cliffracer to help while traveling in Summerset is beyond me.

Wardens are Mystics… Cliffracers, Shalks, and Fetcherflies don’t come from a daedric realm, they come from Morrowind.

That change would be great, but it only helps thematically. The class has additional problems in dps design and sustain.

You’re right, it definitely does. Although one has to admit that the class has hit a pretty decent spot for every role outside of DPS in PvE, it’s a mandatory Healer in all trials groups and is the best tank for 4-man Arenas. If they could get it’s DPS in line, or at least competitive with Necromancer, the class would be in a generally great spot.

a good start would be to help our sustain and to open up maturation to be able to be procced on the group by dps as easy as other classes can do theirs.

ESO_Nightingale

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

The biggest pain point for me is that warden dps are not welcome in endgame trials. So many people say they "cry" when they see a warden dps. We do not bring anything special to a trial that isn't already covered (brittle is covered by any competent tank), while also under-performing compared to other classes in dps.

Every class should have something they can bring to a trial that isn't already covered by another class, or by weapon/guild skills. For warden, that is tied to the healing skills, making dps feel almost useless in trials.

we usually have a lot of people bring wardens as dps to trials, however they are HA specs (mostly because they can do about the same dmg as sorcs HA spec but without the flappy bird) and this still seems to do pretty well

its enough to clear vet trials, and maybe some HMs, but i dont think most HA specs are used for scorepushing/trifecta type stuff anyway

balance mostly matters for score running but there's problems with utility on warden that needs major help since we literally can't even apply toughness to our group without sacking damage.

ESO_Nightingale

alright everyone, i wouldn't expect any changes in the next few hours as week 2 posts are usually ZOS doing bugfixes and other types of content fixes. i'd expect the real changes next week, and i'd not even expect any warden changes either if i'm being fully honest.

ramdrop

Such a shame.. the class has been gutted and it’s just not fun anymore.

Having to work 3x harder than anyone else to get decent damage whilst other classes can just tap 1 button.

Sustain needs to be buffed and the shalks damage needs to be returned

Milanesa_Napolitana

As someone that loves playing Magden, it's really hard to maintain sustain and the lack of good AoE damage it's really noticeable when compared with other dps classes.

ESO_Nightingale

ramdrop wrote: »

Such a shame.. the class has been gutted and it’s just not fun anymore.

Having to work 3x harder than anyone else to get decent damage whilst other classes can just tap 1 button.

Sustain needs to be buffed and the shalks damage needs to be returned

agreed. Because of the shalk changes, we now lack a reactionary minigame playstyle within our rotation something that all other classes have.

Tyrant_Tim

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ramdrop wrote: »

Such a shame.. the class has been gutted and it’s just not fun anymore.

Having to work 3x harder than anyone else to get decent damage whilst other classes can just tap 1 button.

Sustain needs to be buffed and the shalks damage needs to be returned

agreed. Because of the shalk changes, we now lack a reactionary minigame playstyle within our rotation something that all other classes have.

All classes except Warden and Templar, because to consider Power of the Light a reactionary mini game, is to ignore the fact that when parsing you’re going to be easily reaching the maximum for it’s damage each time it goes off, and in PvP the difference between a max and medium PoTL is unnoticeable.

I would love to see both classes receive a mechanic they could play into, one ability they could look at for Warden would be Lotus Flower, as it already has a Light Attack mechanic to it.

ESO_Nightingale

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ramdrop wrote: »

Such a shame.. the class has been gutted and it’s just not fun anymore.

Having to work 3x harder than anyone else to get decent damage whilst other classes can just tap 1 button.

Sustain needs to be buffed and the shalks damage needs to be returned

agreed. Because of the shalk changes, we now lack a reactionary minigame playstyle within our rotation something that all other classes have.

All classes except Warden and Templar, because to consider Power of the Light a reactionary mini game, is to ignore the fact that when parsing you’re going to be easily reaching the maximum for it’s damage each time it goes off, and in PvP the difference between a max and medium PoTL is unnoticeable.

I would love to see both classes receive a mechanic they could play into, one ability they could look at for Warden would be Lotus Flower, as it already has a Light Attack mechanic to it.

If it was for healing, sure but the light attack proc idea is already used by sorc and nightblade. We'd need something else entirely to not just have a copy.

ramdrop

Before all the changes, I enjoyed the 2 skill rotation around Deep Fissure and prioritising the DOTs. After hybridisation, I swapped to Sub Assault which I wasn’t too keen on but it helped with my sustain massively. My rotation is still centred around this skill.

I tried the “new” Deep Fissure and it’s just so bad. You wait so long for the most predictable skill to go off it’s not even funny.

Coupled with the fact that it doesn’t hit hard as what I would call the Wardens main DPS skill, it definitely needs a damage increase. I can live with the 6s rotation and it firing twice but the damage is currently so low.

Fetcher is another skill that bugs me (no pun intended), it used to do a fair bit of damage, now what’s the point in using it. You’re better off using something else especially in an organised group. Another skill which is part of the wardens kit removed for a universal fighters/mages dot

drummagfox

I don't think minor toughness should be given by dps since it's pretty good with healer/tank role.
However, I do agree with the fact that warden dps lacks unique group buff/target debuff and has severe sustain issue. I'm wondering whether it'll make it better if warden can give major brittle at chilled enemy. Yes critical dmg is not that useful now with the 125% cap, but at least it can get warden some unique identity in terms of dmg dealing (and maybe able to replace elemental catalyst in some cases)

ESO_Nightingale

drummagfox wrote: »

I don't think minor toughness should be given by dps since it's pretty good with healer/tank role.
However, I do agree with the fact that warden dps lacks unique group buff/target debuff and has severe sustain issue. I'm wondering whether it'll make it better if warden can give major brittle at chilled enemy. Yes critical dmg is not that useful now with the 125% cap, but at least it can get warden some unique identity in terms of dmg dealing (and maybe able to replace elemental catalyst in some cases)

i think that's too strong of a bonus to give a high uptime too, but too weak of a bonus to be good outside of unique situations like trash or pvp if not.

xWALK1NGxTNT420

So are they gonna do anything at all or are bug fixes balancing the only thing Warden got to balance him out??

The warden is so outdated compared to DK NB and ARC

ESO_Nightingale

xWALK1NGxTNT420 wrote: »

So are they gonna do anything at all or are bug fixes balancing the only thing Warden got to balance him out??

The warden is so outdated compared to DK NB and ARC

no idea. it's common for us to get nothing but bug fixes for long periods of time.

ESO_Nightingale

ramdrop wrote: »

Before all the changes, I enjoyed the 2 skill rotation around Deep Fissure and prioritising the DOTs. After hybridisation, I swapped to Sub Assault which I wasn’t too keen on but it helped with my sustain massively. My rotation is still centred around this skill.

I tried the “new” Deep Fissure and it’s just so bad. You wait so long for the most predictable skill to go off it’s not even funny.

Coupled with the fact that it doesn’t hit hard as what I would call the Wardens main DPS skill, it definitely needs a damage increase. I can live with the 6s rotation and it firing twice but the damage is currently so low.

Fetcher is another skill that bugs me (no pun intended), it used to do a fair bit of damage, now what’s the point in using it. You’re better off using something else especially in an organised group. Another skill which is part of the wardens kit removed for a universal fighters/mages dot

dude i tried using deep fissure again and i literally hated it. it's so slow and it costs a fortune.

ramdrop

Yep it’s terrible. Before hybrid it was difficult to sustain so at least that has helped but even so, it’s not great.

If you use DF in cyrodil you need to prep your burst for 9s after someone starts beating on you….

MindOfTheSwarm

I don’t mind the bonus to damage done while wielding an ice staff as it makes up for the damage done passives that exist on the Inferno and Lightning Staves.
In fact those staves still outperform when using the respective skills the buff.
Ice Staff however is a more general buff across the board and only really excels when going Charged for the Chilled status.

I also like the Winter’s Revenge bonus, but I feel it would be better if it got its base damage boosted and the bonus be reduced to like “8% when wielding an Ice Staff”.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I don’t mind the bonus to damage done while wielding an ice staff as it makes up for the damage done passives that exist on the Inferno and Lightning Staves.
In fact those staves still outperform when using the respective skills the buff.
Ice Staff however is a more general buff across the board and only really excels when going Charged for the Chilled status.

I also like the Winter’s Revenge bonus, but I feel it would be better if it got its base damage boosted and the bonus be reduced to like “8% when wielding an Ice Staff”.

i really don't like the winter's revenge effect, stamina warden uses it too, but it punishes them specifically for not using a destruction staff. where as the piercing cold passive is kinda supposed to be making up for the lack of one if that makes sense.

SandandStars

I was a PvP Magden main for a couple of years…

no class spammable
no class execute
poor sustain

deep fissure does 250 more damage than concealed weapon, which is instant cast

People build these 45k hp polar wind unkillable tanks and spam dizzy/executioner, which effectively annoys people, but the class skills and identity are very lacking in PvP.

Dragonredux

Since Arcanist is a thing now and they give Minor Evasion for basically existing, maybe Deceptive Predator morph could a unique 10% aoe damage reduction (even though it looks like they want to move away from that) or just an Expedition or just about anything really.


Also perhaps Maturation can be changed to "When you heal yourself, you release life giving energy, giving allies 30 meters of you Minor Toughness increasing their Max Health by 10%" which can also synergize off of Bond with Nature so now your DPS wardens can also give another buff.

ramdrop

Well guess that’s it. No more changes to Warden so bottom of the list again…guess the new p2w class takes priority

ESO_Nightingale

ramdrop wrote: »

Well guess that’s it. No more changes to Warden so bottom of the list again…guess the new p2w class takes priority

Yeah i don't know when they'll make more changes. But making minor toughness easier to spread to group and making nature's gift far less restrictive for dps would be a nice start.

Gambit001

I was so excited to make a frost warden for solo after the previous update so I made it, leveled it to 50, and then the change to the stun and now these new changes coming, haven’t even touched it, makes me extremely sad as Ice is my favorite element and it seemed I was actually gonna have a chance to use it…

ESO_Nightingale

Gambit001 wrote: »

I was so excited to make a frost warden for solo after the previous update so I made it, leveled it to 50, and then the change to the stun and now these new changes coming, haven’t even touched it, makes me extremely sad as Ice is my favorite element and it seemed I was actually gonna have a chance to use it…

Double ice is still your best option on magicka warden in most cases. It's just that magicka warden struggles to sustain and in the very highest of pve content, doesn't do as much damage as the other classes to warrant being picked.

xWALK1NGxTNT420

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_Kevin idk who to tagg but do something with the warden please

SandandStars

If u ask them to do something, they’ll take away brittle.

Be very careful.

ramdrop

Nothing for us again.

Which quarter is the one that they were focusing on classes? Just another painful 3 months