Very bad behavior in general these days

Jusey1

BlueRaven wrote: »

Casual players who enter IC or Cyrodiil to do pve things like quest or go skyshard hunting will have a harder time trying to avoid pvp using stealth.

Tbf, most PvP players tend to focus on the PvP objectives. I don't even bother sneaking anymore in IC or Cyrodiil when I am doing PvE tasks because I usually get ignored as long as I ain't near a PvP objective or in their direct line of path.

ESO_player123

BlueRaven wrote: »

-snip
Also the high end wanted additional “difficult” content, so zos converted a communal activity (world events) that were aimed at all players, into something just for more veteran players. Taking that content away from casual players and not replacing it with anything (while also placing ToT elements in it, further depriving casual players of content).

-snip

From the patch notes #2
"The Tribute Deck fragment "Academ's Almalexia Deck Fragment" no longer drops from bosses inside of Bastion Nymic. It can instead be found on the Herald's Seekers roaming Telvanni Peninsula and Apocrypha."

So, it looks like they listened to the community in this case.

Tradewind

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

Everything that's happening, is only happening because Zenimax is not taking concrete measures to end such attitudes. Regarding the Elites, I completely agree with your words and share the same opinion. Unfortunately, I don't see how things can get better without Zenimax's intervention. Things are not good at all, they don't seem to be getting better and everything points to them getting worse. As for what you mentioned about players asking to be paid...

These new players don't have an easy time when they enter a dungeon or trial because the older players, not all of them but enough, just run towards the boss to finish the dungeon/trial as quickly as possible. These new players don't even have a chance to figure out where to position themselves to kill the trash.
As for the chests in trials, it's completely shameful. Opening chests in trials is something that simply doesn't happen anymore. If they want to open the chests, they have to wait until the trial is finished and then go back to the beginning to open them... Unfortunately, they won't be able to do that because they skipped the trash.

Soluction for this:

• The boss should not appear until all trash have been defeated.

it's simply shameful. That's all there is to it. Shameful!

[edited to remove quote]

Kusto

Tradewind wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

Everything that's happening, is only happening because Zenimax is not taking concrete measures to end such attitudes. Regarding the Elites, I completely agree with your words and share the same opinion. Unfortunately, I don't see how things can get better without Zenimax's intervention. Things are not good at all, they don't seem to be getting better and everything points to them getting worse. As for what you mentioned about players asking to be paid... it's simply shameful. That's all there is to it. Shameful!

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

[edited to remove quote]

Tradewind

Kusto wrote: »

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

• On Friday, I completed vAS+2 with some skilled players who are often referred to as "elite" in about 20 minutes.
• Yesterday, I ran vSS with a group of random players (pugs) and three new players, which took nearly two hours. I stayed to assist them.
• Today, I ran a nRND and left because it was Moongrave Fane.

However, none of what you say relates to the topic of "Very bad behavior in general these days". I'm referring to what I observe happening within the game.

Kusto

Tradewind wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

• Today, I ran a nRND and left because it was Moongrave Fane.

You talking about bad behavior lmao

Tradewind

Kusto wrote: »

You talking about bad behavior lmao

Should every player be penalized for leaving the dungeon for 24 hours? Yes.

Biscuit_290

There was no need to mess with oakensoul. It was the sole hope for those with unstable connection to get good dps because swapping bars takes ages for us (talking about fluctuating ping, not just high). Just had to make it so it doesn't break leaderboards. Now idk how much this nerf will affect it in practice but it doesn't look good.

Gnesnig

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Any nerf to lower end players makes players who could barely get by in vet dungeons dropped to the ranks of normal mode only at best. With a cascading effect of now that many more players will be unable to collect monster gear.

I collect monster sets on my (real) tank and (real) healers and give it to my DPS. If more people would do that, we'd also have better queue distribution.

Shagreth

BlueRaven wrote: »

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

Biggest hyperbole I've read on these forums in years.

ixthUA

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

There was no need to mess with oakensoul. It was the sole hope for those with unstable connection to get good dps because swapping bars takes ages for us (talking about fluctuating ping, not just high). Just had to make it so it doesn't break leaderboards. Now idk how much this nerf will affect it in practice but it doesn't look good.

Empower nerf is only 5.6%, but if you use skills between heavy attacks - nerf will be weaker.

Biscuit_290

ixthUA wrote: »

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

There was no need to mess with oakensoul. It was the sole hope for those with unstable connection to get good dps because swapping bars takes ages for us (talking about fluctuating ping, not just high). Just had to make it so it doesn't break leaderboards. Now idk how much this nerf will affect it in practice but it doesn't look good.

Empower nerf is only 5.6%, but if you use skills between heavy attacks - nerf will be weaker.

oh just 5.6? Someone told me 10% and I got worried.

ixthUA

170/180*100 is 94.4% for heavy attacks.

sarahthes

Tradewind wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

• On Friday, I completed vAS+2 with some skilled players who are often referred to as "elite" in about 20 minutes.
• Yesterday, I ran vSS with a group of random players (pugs) and three new players, which took nearly two hours. I stayed to assist them.
• Today, I ran a nRND and left because it was Moongrave Fane.

However, none of what you say relates to the topic of "Very bad behavior in general these days". I'm referring to what I observe happening within the game.

A 20 minute long vAS+2 is not "elite".

RodneyRegis

People who were on the “bubble” for tolerable dps can (probably will) be affected by this nerf. Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players? No. In fact the ranks of those “fake dps” players will only grow.

Any nerf to lower end players makes players who could barely get by in vet dungeons dropped to the ranks of normal mode only at best. With a cascading effect of now that many more players will be unable to collect monster gear.

So yes, a 5-10% nerf does increase the amount of players who will be kicked from groups.

Edit: And as for the midrange players, do you think pug trial groups will drop their dps requirements after this change? Again no, leaving those players who were on the bubble for trials with fewer options.

I know this is probably an absolutely crazy idea, but maybe it's not a dreadful thing that people have different skill levels and are able to complete different content? Your argument seems somewhat reductive. Why shouldn't I have godslayer just because i keep dying to trash?

RodneyRegis

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players?

I think these players are a minority, who will complain and be intolerant no matter what ZOS does in the next patch. I think OP had the misfortune to encounter several such players in a row, which is not representative of the ESO community as a whole. I also think that "normal" people, who don't randomly kick or insult inexperienced players, won't suddenly become toxic jerks because a DD drops from 22k to 21k DPS in a dungeon. Finally, I think the bottom line remains that finding a guild or community is the best way to avoid these issues.

BlueRaven wrote: »

And as for the midrange players, do you think pug trial groups will drop their dps requirements after this change?

Why should they? Groups set their requirements based on their objectives (e.g., vet or HM clear, speed run, etc.) and may adjust when there are significant combat changes across the board. They don't drop them just because a class skill, a set bonus, or a status effect was slightly nerfed.

It sounds like the people in his dungeons encountered intolerant people. I've never been kicked form a dungeon for telling somebody they "have the wrong gear". I wonder why

RodneyRegis

Tradewind wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

Everything that's happening, is only happening because Zenimax is not taking concrete measures to end such attitudes. Regarding the Elites, I completely agree with your words and share the same opinion. Unfortunately, I don't see how things can get better without Zenimax's intervention. Things are not good at all, they don't seem to be getting better and everything points to them getting worse. As for what you mentioned about players asking to be paid...

These new players don't have an easy time when they enter a dungeon or trial because the older players, not all of them but enough, just run towards the boss to finish the dungeon/trial as quickly as possible. These new players don't even have a chance to figure out where to position themselves to kill the trash.
As for the chests in trials, it's completely shameful. Opening chests in trials is something that simply doesn't happen anymore. If they want to open the chests, they have to wait until the trial is finished and then go back to the beginning to open them... Unfortunately, they won't be able to do that because they skipped the trash.

Soluction for this:

• The boss should not appear until all trash have been defeated.

it's simply shameful. That's all there is to it. Shameful!

[edited to remove quote]

This is an odd post.

In vet vKA and SS people are expected not to loot, because the vast majority of people in vet trials are not after normal gear.

If you want the chests, and trash has been skipped (much more likely in vKA) then go back and skip the trash in the same manner. None of them are out of reach to a solo player.

The age-old argument about high-end (or even mid-tier) players rushing dungeons - what do you expect them to do, stand and watch the 500k health boss so that the new player can experience mechanics? If you have players who want to finish a random or get their weapon quickly plugging with players who want to experience the story and learn mechanics in normal, then obviously somebody is going to be disappointed. The onus is not on the better player to slow down for the newbie.

All I remember is being very grateful to vet players when i started as it meant the dungeon was done quicker. I've run most dungeons, especially non DLC, hundreds of times, just because one run is lightning quick doesn't mean the next one will be,

It always seems to be people angry about toxicity and entitlement are the ones who are...well, you know the rest

RodneyRegis

Tradewind wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

• On Friday, I completed vAS+2 with some skilled players who are often referred to as "elite" in about 20 minutes.
• Yesterday, I ran vSS with a group of random players (pugs) and three new players, which took nearly two hours. I stayed to assist them.
• Today, I ran a nRND and left because it was Moongrave Fane.

However, none of what you say relates to the topic of "Very bad behavior in general these days". I'm referring to what I observe happening within the game.

Wait - you are angry with people who rush dungeons, but you're happy to waste half an hour of some guy's queuing time and then leave because you didn't get the right random?!

Soarora

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

Everything that's happening, is only happening because Zenimax is not taking concrete measures to end such attitudes. Regarding the Elites, I completely agree with your words and share the same opinion. Unfortunately, I don't see how things can get better without Zenimax's intervention. Things are not good at all, they don't seem to be getting better and everything points to them getting worse. As for what you mentioned about players asking to be paid...

These new players don't have an easy time when they enter a dungeon or trial because the older players, not all of them but enough, just run towards the boss to finish the dungeon/trial as quickly as possible. These new players don't even have a chance to figure out where to position themselves to kill the trash.
As for the chests in trials, it's completely shameful. Opening chests in trials is something that simply doesn't happen anymore. If they want to open the chests, they have to wait until the trial is finished and then go back to the beginning to open them... Unfortunately, they won't be able to do that because they skipped the trash.

Soluction for this:

• The boss should not appear until all trash have been defeated.

it's simply shameful. That's all there is to it. Shameful!

[edited to remove quote]

This is an odd post.

In vet vKA and SS people are expected not to loot, because the vast majority of people in vet trials are not after normal gear.

If you want the chests, and trash has been skipped (much more likely in vKA) then go back and skip the trash in the same manner. None of them are out of reach to a solo player.

The age-old argument about high-end (or even mid-tier) players rushing dungeons - what do you expect them to do, stand and watch the 500k health boss so that the new player can experience mechanics? If you have players who want to finish a random or get their weapon quickly plugging with players who want to experience the story and learn mechanics in normal, then obviously somebody is going to be disappointed. The onus is not on the better player to slow down for the newbie.

All I remember is being very grateful to vet players when i started as it meant the dungeon was done quicker. I've run most dungeons, especially non DLC, hundreds of times, just because one run is lightning quick doesn't mean the next one will be,

It always seems to be people angry about toxicity and entitlement are the ones who are...well, you know the rest

I can confirm when it comes to going back and getting chests and heavy sacks... you CAN get them. As long as the group isn't disbanded... you can get them. I have done this in Sunspire and KA. Expecting people to wait and loot everything is a waste of their time, they may not need the gear and be on a time crunch. Doing it at the end ensures that it is optional.

And not letting us skip trash would make farming a pain and thus motif and style page prices would go up even higher.

peacenote

Soarora wrote: »

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

My chats haven’t gotten any worse… maybe it’s just you. Why are you telling people their gear is “wrong”? I do not comment on other peoples gear choices. And by “dps is too low” what are your standards? If DPS or healing really is too low I wait until a DPS/healcheck so they can see for themselves, otherwise they’ll just feel attacked and won’t get it. Even then, I try my best to help people through, even slotting matriarch myself as a tank. People just wanna have fun. Finally, was the fake tank really a fake tank or just a bad one?

I only say their gear is wrong when the support sets end up not really giving any support. It's nothing big, I just say it so that if they have other sets, they can swap to it and make things smoother. Instead every last one of them is too eager to feel attacked, just as you said.
As for the tank, yes, he was very much fake. Had no taunts at all. None slotted, admitted it himself when I asked why he was leading the shield boss (in MoS) right into the rest of the group. So after two wipes, a proven fake tank and refusing to listen when I tried to teach those people the mechs, I was the one who got kicked. That's some gratitude.

People with “wrong” gear do not likely have other gear to swap to. When I was a new healer and when I was a new tank, I only had one setup. I also have met a healer who was told that they should wear spc or olorime and they didn’t have it on them so they couldn’t swap. Besides, while there are BiS gear choices, that doesn’t mean other ones are wrong. If you do want to still give people advice they didn’t ask for you need to be very careful with your wording because yeah, “your gear is wrong” is not gonna go over well. Something like “hey healer wanted to let you know most DPS expect major courage from you, spell power cure set is the best for that” is a lot nicer because it’s not so targetted and feels more like an option. I do give supports advice very rarely but I have not been attacked for doing so.
As for the tank, might’ve just been a pre-made group and thus they kicked you instead of their friend. Dunno how they expect a fake tank in MoS to go… they are absolutely doomed… but their problem. You getting kicked in that situation if anything is great because no queue cooldown and don’t need to deal with the fake tank.

These are really solid guesses to the other sides of the stories.

To the Op, partially what you are describing isn't new, at least the ignoring part. I try to say hello at the beginning of every dungeon and even THAT is ignored in at least half the pugs I run. Since the beginning of ESO. A good portion of them have no chat responses whatsoever and inly sometimes say tyfg at the end. I do think some of that is not toxicity but folks playing in different languages.

As to the other part, this is not just an ESO problem. It is a post-COVID, the-world-is-in-a-weird-place problem. Everyone seems sensitive. Many folks are truly struggling to cope. A lot of people were isolated and lost basic interaction skills. I have encountered a surprising amount of abrupt and rude folks in the hospitality industry. The working from home culture seems to have triggered a landslide of people to whom "fair" is the most important value and, to them, "fair" means "I get absolutely anything anyone else gets regardless of if it makes sense" and they literally are on the lookout specifically to call out folks if they feel slighted. Literally we live in a world where the same exact people who will be upset if a supervisor doesn't send a sick person home from work (nevermind if the person is testing negative, it is putting them at risk) will also then be simultaneously upset if slightly sick person is allowed to work from home, because they had to come in that day.

In a world like this, unsolicited advice is especially unwelcome. Wording is important, if you want to try, but I personally take my cues from the individuals rather than taking the initiative, especially in things like a pug in an MMO, because it's not worth the drama. People who start out dungeons by saying things like "this is my first time here" or "can we do the quest" or "please be patient, I have never tanked this place before"... then to those types of folks I'll provide nicely worded advice if they seem to be struggling. But for groups that don't say "hi" back when we start, or say "wow this is a tough boss" if we wipe... I give it the old college try, and use the "I only have one pull left, then I have to go" method instead of trying to give suggestions on build or playstyle. Most folks aren't looking for that from strangers right now, in ESO or IRL.

Soarora

peacenote wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

My chats haven’t gotten any worse… maybe it’s just you. Why are you telling people their gear is “wrong”? I do not comment on other peoples gear choices. And by “dps is too low” what are your standards? If DPS or healing really is too low I wait until a DPS/healcheck so they can see for themselves, otherwise they’ll just feel attacked and won’t get it. Even then, I try my best to help people through, even slotting matriarch myself as a tank. People just wanna have fun. Finally, was the fake tank really a fake tank or just a bad one?

I only say their gear is wrong when the support sets end up not really giving any support. It's nothing big, I just say it so that if they have other sets, they can swap to it and make things smoother. Instead every last one of them is too eager to feel attacked, just as you said.
As for the tank, yes, he was very much fake. Had no taunts at all. None slotted, admitted it himself when I asked why he was leading the shield boss (in MoS) right into the rest of the group. So after two wipes, a proven fake tank and refusing to listen when I tried to teach those people the mechs, I was the one who got kicked. That's some gratitude.

People with “wrong” gear do not likely have other gear to swap to. When I was a new healer and when I was a new tank, I only had one setup. I also have met a healer who was told that they should wear spc or olorime and they didn’t have it on them so they couldn’t swap. Besides, while there are BiS gear choices, that doesn’t mean other ones are wrong. If you do want to still give people advice they didn’t ask for you need to be very careful with your wording because yeah, “your gear is wrong” is not gonna go over well. Something like “hey healer wanted to let you know most DPS expect major courage from you, spell power cure set is the best for that” is a lot nicer because it’s not so targetted and feels more like an option. I do give supports advice very rarely but I have not been attacked for doing so.
As for the tank, might’ve just been a pre-made group and thus they kicked you instead of their friend. Dunno how they expect a fake tank in MoS to go… they are absolutely doomed… but their problem. You getting kicked in that situation if anything is great because no queue cooldown and don’t need to deal with the fake tank.

These are really solid guesses to the other sides of the stories.

To the Op, partially what you are describing isn't new, at least the ignoring part. I try to say hello at the beginning of every dungeon and even THAT is ignored in at least half the pugs I run. Since the beginning of ESO. A good portion of them have no chat responses whatsoever and inly sometimes say tyfg at the end. I do think some of that is not toxicity but folks playing in different languages.

As to the other part, this is not just an ESO problem. It is a post-COVID, the-world-is-in-a-weird-place problem. Everyone seems sensitive. Many folks are truly struggling to cope. A lot of people were isolated and lost basic interaction skills. I have encountered a surprising amount of abrupt and rude folks in the hospitality industry. The working from home culture seems to have triggered a landslide of people to whom "fair" is the most important value and, to them, "fair" means "I get absolutely anything anyone else gets regardless of if it makes sense" and they literally are on the lookout specifically to call out folks if they feel slighted. Literally we live in a world where the same exact people who will be upset if a supervisor doesn't send a sick person home from work (nevermind if the person is testing negative, it is putting them at risk) will also then be simultaneously upset if slightly sick person is allowed to work from home, because they had to come in that day.

In a world like this, unsolicited advice is especially unwelcome. Wording is important, if you want to try, but I personally take my cues from the individuals rather than taking the initiative, especially in things like a pug in an MMO, because it's not worth the drama. People who start out dungeons by saying things like "this is my first time here" or "can we do the quest" or "please be patient, I have never tanked this place before"... then to those types of folks I'll provide nicely worded advice if they seem to be struggling. But for groups that don't say "hi" back when we start, or say "wow this is a tough boss" if we wipe... I give it the old college try, and use the "I only have one pull left, then I have to go" method instead of trying to give suggestions on build or playstyle. Most folks aren't looking for that from strangers right now, in ESO or IRL.

Thank you. And I experience the same thing. Not all groups say hi back, but I get excited and much more willing to give it my all to make the group work if they talk. I’ll be in a dungeon for an hour for a talkative group… but absolutely not for people who won’t even say hi. They have to take that initiative or else I won’t even explain mechanics anymore. Waste of my time for someone who’s unlikely to listen.

Tradewind

sarahthes wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

• On Friday, I completed vAS+2 with some skilled players who are often referred to as "elite" in about 20 minutes.
• Yesterday, I ran vSS with a group of random players (pugs) and three new players, which took nearly two hours. I stayed to assist them.
• Today, I ran a nRND and left because it was Moongrave Fane.

However, none of what you say relates to the topic of "Very bad behavior in general these days". I'm referring to what I observe happening within the game.

A 20 minute long vAS+2 is not "elite".

"some skilled players" Having a few elite players on your team does not necessarily make the entire group perfect

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

But why play with elitists if they treat you bad? They don't control the group content like the other post mentioned. No one stops you from making your own groups or guildys and set your own rules. Zos doesn't have to do anything, it's all up to you.

• On Friday, I completed vAS+2 with some skilled players who are often referred to as "elite" in about 20 minutes.
• Yesterday, I ran vSS with a group of random players (pugs) and three new players, which took nearly two hours. I stayed to assist them.
• Today, I ran a nRND and left because it was Moongrave Fane.

However, none of what you say relates to the topic of "Very bad behavior in general these days". I'm referring to what I observe happening within the game.

Wait - you are angry with people who rush dungeons, but you're happy to waste half an hour of some guy's queuing time and then leave because you didn't get the right random?!

On that day, I didn't mind staying for two hours in vSS to help new players finish the trial and guide them on what they needed to do. However, I left Moongrave Fane because I wasn't in the mood to complete it. So, that's how it is.
Despite all this, there is no denying that there is very bad behavior in general these days.

Elsonso

Tradewind wrote: »

These new players don't have an easy time when they enter a dungeon or trial because the older players, not all of them but enough, just run towards the boss to finish the dungeon/trial as quickly as possible. These new players don't even have a chance to figure out where to position themselves to kill the trash.

This is a problem, especially in normal low tier base game dungeons, and it is made worse in cases where there are shortcuts that ZOS has not closed that allow players who are in a hurry to bypass bosses and content. I am actually surprised that ZOS is OK with this, as someone put effort into these dungeons, only for groups to skip things.

Another problem is that when players get in a hurry, they rush through doors and get into combat, making it hard for people to follow. Doors are unreliable in dungeons.

I once considered "boss doesn't appear until trash is dead" types of solutions. That might work, but mobs can get stuck somewhere and that could block the boss. I now prefer dogpiles where those "forgotten" trash mobs meet up with the party at the boss and add to the boss fight. If a mob is stuck somewhere and does not meet up with his friends, no biggie.

Personally, I think ZOS has a couple of things they need to consider...
1) Unleash trash mobs so they will follow the group until they are dead.
2) Eliminate all doors, make it so that they are automatically opened after the boss dies, or make it so that the first player through the door removes the need to open the door for everyone else. Depends on the reason for the door, but no players should be queued up at the door waiting for the server to decide to allow it to be opened.
3) Eliminate some of the shortcuts in dungeons that bypass bosses, especially in base game dungeons likely frequented by <50 players. It's not that I want the dungeon to be longer and more annoying, but that it bypasses mechanics that people should learn, and new players may not understand that this is happening.
4) Extend the dungeon "exit" timer by 2x to allow cleaning up chests, missed loot, etc due to speed runs.

The day they put extra aggressive slaughterfish in the water in Fungal Grotto... Sigh. As fun as that sounds, not actually something I want to see.

peacenote wrote: »

To the Op, partially what you are describing isn't new, at least the ignoring part. I try to say hello at the beginning of every dungeon and even THAT is ignored in at least half the pugs I run. Since the beginning of ESO. A good portion of them have no chat responses whatsoever and inly sometimes say tyfg at the end. I do think some of that is not toxicity but folks playing in different languages.

Please do not use "hello" responses as a gauge of the party. I am friendly, and will reply to such comments, but only if I see them, and chances are pretty good that I won't. I am not usually watching chat, so your character needs to be in front of me, and I need to see the chat bubble. Nothing personal, just usually busy.

I do say "tyfg". Usually it is the only thing I say while in the dungeon. It is not uncommon for people to say that, but it is usually said after the impatient/speedy players have already departed.

Tradewind

@Elsonso
"I once considered "boss doesn't appear until trash is dead" types of solutions. That might work, but mobs can get stuck somewhere and that could block the boss."
If mobs get stuck ZoS have to solve the bug.

"1) Unleash trash mobs so they will follow the group until they are dead."
This will not help new players at all. It will only benefit speedrunners. What happens to trash mobs when the whole group wipes? Do they stay or respawn?

But after all, I believe we're in some kind of harmony. Something needs to be done because, in general, this is not good for the game.

Soarora

Elsonso wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

These new players don't have an easy time when they enter a dungeon or trial because the older players, not all of them but enough, just run towards the boss to finish the dungeon/trial as quickly as possible. These new players don't even have a chance to figure out where to position themselves to kill the trash.

This is a problem, especially in normal low tier base game dungeons, and it is made worse in cases where there are shortcuts that ZOS has not closed that allow players who are in a hurry to bypass bosses and content. I am actually surprised that ZOS is OK with this, as someone put effort into these dungeons, only for groups to skip things.

Another problem is that when players get in a hurry, they rush through doors and get into combat, making it hard for people to follow. Doors are unreliable in dungeons.

I once considered "boss doesn't appear until trash is dead" types of solutions. That might work, but mobs can get stuck somewhere and that could block the boss. I now prefer dogpiles where those "forgotten" trash mobs meet up with the party at the boss and add to the boss fight. If a mob is stuck somewhere and does not meet up with his friends, no biggie.

Personally, I think ZOS has a couple of things they need to consider...
1) Unleash trash mobs so they will follow the group until they are dead.
2) Eliminate all doors, make it so that they are automatically opened after the boss dies, or make it so that the first player through the door removes the need to open the door for everyone else. Depends on the reason for the door, but no players should be queued up at the door waiting for the server to decide to allow it to be opened.
3) Eliminate some of the shortcuts in dungeons that bypass bosses, especially in base game dungeons likely frequented by <50 players. It's not that I want the dungeon to be longer and more annoying, but that it bypasses mechanics that people should learn, and new players may not understand that this is happening.
4) Extend the dungeon "exit" timer by 2x to allow cleaning up chests, missed loot, etc due to speed runs.

The day they put extra aggressive slaughterfish in the water in Fungal Grotto... Sigh. As fun as that sounds, not actually something I want to see.

peacenote wrote: »

To the Op, partially what you are describing isn't new, at least the ignoring part. I try to say hello at the beginning of every dungeon and even THAT is ignored in at least half the pugs I run. Since the beginning of ESO. A good portion of them have no chat responses whatsoever and inly sometimes say tyfg at the end. I do think some of that is not toxicity but folks playing in different languages.

Please do not use "hello" responses as a gauge of the party. I am friendly, and will reply to such comments, but only if I see them, and chances are pretty good that I won't. I am not usually watching chat, so your character needs to be in front of me, and I need to see the chat bubble. Nothing personal, just usually busy.

I do say "tyfg". Usually it is the only thing I say while in the dungeon. It is not uncommon for people to say that, but it is usually said after the impatient/speedy players have already departed.

Unleashing trash would be great, honestly. I do big pulls in nonDLC because it’s just faster. The enemies don’t hit hard but cleave does. But it becomes a problem in cases like wayrest sewers where some trash inexplicably doesn’t want to move.

Doors automatically opening would be great since I don’t think people are going to “get good” at not getting themselves stuck in combat. Like… the famous wayrest sewers door isn’t bugged, it’s the gators at the beginning. I guess could also just remove the gators.

I know of 0 cases of skipped bosses in nonDLC that’d teach mechanics not taught elsewhere. There’s the one in fungal grotto where you need to kill the boss but not her pets but then regardless of what you say people kill the pets anyway… and that same idea is taught in Arx with the lamia and her snake. But people get that one.

I would like the timer extended.

While I do not judge the character of individuals for if they say hi, you have proven the point. If people don’t even say hi then they’re very likely just not going to talk or even see messages. So there’s no point in trying.

TKo_ROUSE

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

So the mid and low end players who were buffed by 50-100% a few patches ago are now getting nerfed by 5-10%, and that will ruin the game? I am not even an advocate for such a nerf and I find this way exaggerated... Anyway, please let's not turn this thread into another HA/Oakensoul discussion

How will the new Bastion Nymic concept be limited to elite gatekeepers, where you need to kill monsters "similar to world bosses in difficulty" followed by a group instance that "is a little more forgiving than a typical dungeon"? How will adding this new gameplay element to the multitude of existing content turn world events in general into something exclusive to higher end players and break the community?

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand.

Unfortunately, this is just the risk you take with random people and groups. Actually, my personal experience differs a lot from yours, but with a string of bad luck one can of course encounter a lot of jerks in a row. At the same time, there are many great guilds and communities out there that will provide a more relaxed and friendly environment. It might take a few tries to find the right one for you, but I'd say it's worth the invested time.

People who were on the “bubble” for tolerable dps can (probably will) be affected by this nerf. Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players? No. In fact the ranks of those “fake dps” players will only grow.

Any nerf to lower end players makes players who could barely get by in vet dungeons dropped to the ranks of normal mode only at best. With a cascading effect of now that many more players will be unable to collect monster gear.

So yes, a 5-10% nerf does increase the amount of players who will be kicked from groups.

Edit: And as for the midrange players, do you think pug trial groups will drop their dps requirements after this change? Again no, leaving those players who were on the bubble for trials with fewer options.

You know that's the exact same argument end game players made with U35. It affects the players on the cusp of content more than top tier players. Except in U35 those players were taking much more than a 5% hit. Yet people still cheered on the nerfs because it affected those "endgamers". So I think that is probably why you don't garner much sympathy from the end game community because you didn't provide any empathy when it was not affecting you.

TaSheen

@TKo_ROUSE - I could of course be wrong, but I don't think @Tradewind was on the forum at the time of all the U35 fuss, so saying he didn't provide empathy isn't something we know.

TKo_ROUSE

TaSheen wrote: »

@TKo_ROUSE - I could of course be wrong, but I don't think @Tradewind was on the forum at the time of all the U35 fuss, so saying he didn't provide empathy isn't something we know.

My reply was too BlueRaven not tradewind. But the point remains the same. I am not saying that fault falls on one person, it was a huge section of the casual player base cheering on the nerfs. Since then players from both sides have come and gone. But enough people are around that remember and that is likely why there is such a huge community divide on this subject. For a lot of players they probably just see it as karma.

Keep in mind this is just my thoughts and observation. I am not saying it is right or wrong. I really don't care what happens with oakensoul.

Amottica

Tradewind wrote: »

@Elsonso
"I once considered "boss doesn't appear until trash is dead" types of solutions. That might work, but mobs can get stuck somewhere and that could block the boss."
If mobs get stuck ZoS have to solve the bug.

"1) Unleash trash mobs so they will follow the group until they are dead."
This will not help new players at all. It will only benefit speedrunners. What happens to trash mobs when the whole group wipes? Do they stay or respawn?

But after all, I believe we're in some kind of harmony. Something needs to be done because, in general, this is not good for the game.

The simple answer is to make trash mobs stronger so if a group tries to pass them the first set of trash will have done enough damage so that the next set of trash will likely finish them off. Sure, there are ways around this such as a more organized group but we are talking about a random group, not a premade guild group that will be more efficient and effective let along more hospitable.

TaSheen

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

@TKo_ROUSE - I could of course be wrong, but I don't think @Tradewind was on the forum at the time of all the U35 fuss, so saying he didn't provide empathy isn't something we know.

My reply was too BlueRaven not tradewind. But the point remains the same. I am not saying that fault falls on one person, it was a huge section of the casual player base cheering on the nerfs. Since then players from both sides have come and gone. But enough people are around that remember and that is likely why there is such a huge community divide on this subject. For a lot of players they probably just see it as karma.

Keep in mind this is just my thoughts and observation. I am not saying it is right or wrong. I really don't care what happens with oakensoul.

Ah, sorry. I got wires crossed there for sure!