Very bad behavior in general these days

Biscuit_290

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand. Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits. I am not exaggerating one bit. Never had as bad an experience in any game to date as I have in eso for the past couple of months, and this is coming from someone who's been playing dead by daylight for years...Think about that

BlueRaven

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand. Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits. I am not exaggerating one bit. Never had as bad an experience in any game to date as I have in eso for the past couple of months, and this is coming from someone who's been playing dead by daylight for years...Think about that

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

Biscuit_290

jesus christ... what am I even paying money for in this game anymore

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

jesus christ... what am I even paying money for in this game anymore

ptw.

BlueRaven

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

jesus christ... what am I even paying money for in this game anymore

I did not mention the unpublished change (if it’s a bug, zos seems to be unusually quiet about it) to detect potions so they cover a much, much, much wider area.
Casual players who enter IC or Cyrodiil to do pve things like quest or go skyshard hunting will have a harder time trying to avoid pvp using stealth.

TybaltKaine

Sorry that happened to you OP. Maybe try joining a guild instead of running with random people? Most guilds will run events to do specific content, and every guild I've ever been in will help you if you ask in the guild chat. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never had a bad experience playing with guild mates.

There are even guilds out there for players who prefer to solo stuff, but also want to be able to get help when they need it. I was in one for a while, I can't recall the name (curse of being old I guess) but this one is similar

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531230/guild-for-solo-players/p1

If you are interested in joining guilds that are more sociable, Blackfeather Academy is one I've been part of for years and always does training trials, organized content, PVP runs, story mode dungeons, whatever you need. Seriously, Guilds make this game enjoyable, don't be afraid to put yourself out there and make some friends.

Ph1p

BlueRaven wrote: »

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

So the mid and low end players who were buffed by 50-100% a few patches ago are now getting nerfed by 5-10%, and that will ruin the game? I am not even an advocate for such a nerf and I find this way exaggerated... Anyway, please let's not turn this thread into another HA/Oakensoul discussion

How will the new Bastion Nymic concept be limited to elite gatekeepers, where you need to kill monsters "similar to world bosses in difficulty" followed by a group instance that "is a little more forgiving than a typical dungeon"? How will adding this new gameplay element to the multitude of existing content turn world events in general into something exclusive to higher end players and break the community?

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand.

Unfortunately, this is just the risk you take with random people and groups. Actually, my personal experience differs a lot from yours, but with a string of bad luck one can of course encounter a lot of jerks in a row. At the same time, there are many great guilds and communities out there that will provide a more relaxed and friendly environment. It might take a few tries to find the right one for you, but I'd say it's worth the invested time.

BlueRaven

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

So the mid and low end players who were buffed by 50-100% a few patches ago are now getting nerfed by 5-10%, and that will ruin the game? I am not even an advocate for such a nerf and I find this way exaggerated... Anyway, please let's not turn this thread into another HA/Oakensoul discussion

How will the new Bastion Nymic concept be limited to elite gatekeepers, where you need to kill monsters "similar to world bosses in difficulty" followed by a group instance that "is a little more forgiving than a typical dungeon"? How will adding this new gameplay element to the multitude of existing content turn world events in general into something exclusive to higher end players and break the community?

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand.

Unfortunately, this is just the risk you take with random people and groups. Actually, my personal experience differs a lot from yours, but with a string of bad luck one can of course encounter a lot of jerks in a row. At the same time, there are many great guilds and communities out there that will provide a more relaxed and friendly environment. It might take a few tries to find the right one for you, but I'd say it's worth the invested time.

People who were on the “bubble” for tolerable dps can (probably will) be affected by this nerf. Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players? No. In fact the ranks of those “fake dps” players will only grow.

Any nerf to lower end players makes players who could barely get by in vet dungeons dropped to the ranks of normal mode only at best. With a cascading effect of now that many more players will be unable to collect monster gear.

So yes, a 5-10% nerf does increase the amount of players who will be kicked from groups.

Edit: And as for the midrange players, do you think pug trial groups will drop their dps requirements after this change? Again no, leaving those players who were on the bubble for trials with fewer options.

Biscuit_290

The part about guilds is true, though the really good ones are rare and the lack of a search bar makes it very tough to find one.

haelgaan

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits.

the pits is not being able to gripe at your group mates without them kicking you? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Biscuit_290

haelgaan wrote: »

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits.

the pits is not being able to gripe at your group mates without them kicking you? [snip]

If you think telling someone not to fake tank in a DLC dungeon of all places is 'whining', you are no better than those self centred kids I spoke about, out to risk ruining a pledge for 3 others because you couldn't bother to wait 5 minutes for the correct role.

[edited to remove quote]

Soarora

My chats haven’t gotten any worse… maybe it’s just you. Why are you telling people their gear is “wrong”? I do not comment on other peoples gear choices. And by “dps is too low” what are your standards? If DPS or healing really is too low I wait until a DPS/healcheck so they can see for themselves, otherwise they’ll just feel attacked and won’t get it. Even then, I try my best to help people through, even slotting matriarch myself as a tank. People just wanna have fun. Finally, was the fake tank really a fake tank or just a bad one?

Ph1p

BlueRaven wrote: »

Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players?

I think these players are a minority, who will complain and be intolerant no matter what ZOS does in the next patch. I think OP had the misfortune to encounter several such players in a row, which is not representative of the ESO community as a whole. I also think that "normal" people, who don't randomly kick or insult inexperienced players, won't suddenly become toxic jerks because a DD drops from 22k to 21k DPS in a dungeon. Finally, I think the bottom line remains that finding a guild or community is the best way to avoid these issues.

BlueRaven wrote: »

And as for the midrange players, do you think pug trial groups will drop their dps requirements after this change?

Why should they? Groups set their requirements based on their objectives (e.g., vet or HM clear, speed run, etc.) and may adjust when there are significant combat changes across the board. They don't drop them just because a class skill, a set bonus, or a status effect was slightly nerfed.

Soarora

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players?

I think these players are a minority, who will complain and be intolerant no matter what ZOS does in the next patch. I think OP had the misfortune to encounter several such players in a row, which is not representative of the ESO community as a whole. I also think that "normal" people, who don't randomly kick or insult inexperienced players, won't suddenly become toxic jerks because a DD drops from 22k to 21k DPS in a dungeon. Finally, I think the bottom line remains that finding a guild or community is the best way to avoid these issues.

OP had no such misfortune. Read the post again, OP is the one being intolerant to others and complaining because people don’t like their comments.

Biscuit_290

Soarora wrote: »

My chats haven’t gotten any worse… maybe it’s just you. Why are you telling people their gear is “wrong”? I do not comment on other peoples gear choices. And by “dps is too low” what are your standards? If DPS or healing really is too low I wait until a DPS/healcheck so they can see for themselves, otherwise they’ll just feel attacked and won’t get it. Even then, I try my best to help people through, even slotting matriarch myself as a tank. People just wanna have fun. Finally, was the fake tank really a fake tank or just a bad one?

I only say their gear is wrong when the support sets end up not really giving any support. It's nothing big, I just say it so that if they have other sets, they can swap to it and make things smoother. Instead every last one of them is too eager to feel attacked, just as you said.
As for the tank, yes, he was very much fake. Had no taunts at all. None slotted, admitted it himself when I asked why he was leading the shield boss (in MoS) right into the rest of the group. So after two wipes, a proven fake tank and refusing to listen when I tried to teach those people the mechs, I was the one who got kicked. That's some gratitude.

Biscuit_290

Soarora wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players?

I think these players are a minority, who will complain and be intolerant no matter what ZOS does in the next patch. I think OP had the misfortune to encounter several such players in a row, which is not representative of the ESO community as a whole. I also think that "normal" people, who don't randomly kick or insult inexperienced players, won't suddenly become toxic jerks because a DD drops from 22k to 21k DPS in a dungeon. Finally, I think the bottom line remains that finding a guild or community is the best way to avoid these issues.

OP had no such misfortune. Read the post again, OP is the one being intolerant to others and complaining because people don’t like their comments.

I have been called fake dd and kicked too, several times. Only didn't talk about that part because this thing is a much worse case than my being kicked for being a bad DD. And while I have called out others who don't meet the standards, I never told them to leave or try to kick. Somehow it's me on the receiving end in both situations.

Soarora

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

My chats haven’t gotten any worse… maybe it’s just you. Why are you telling people their gear is “wrong”? I do not comment on other peoples gear choices. And by “dps is too low” what are your standards? If DPS or healing really is too low I wait until a DPS/healcheck so they can see for themselves, otherwise they’ll just feel attacked and won’t get it. Even then, I try my best to help people through, even slotting matriarch myself as a tank. People just wanna have fun. Finally, was the fake tank really a fake tank or just a bad one?

I only say their gear is wrong when the support sets end up not really giving any support. It's nothing big, I just say it so that if they have other sets, they can swap to it and make things smoother. Instead every last one of them is too eager to feel attacked, just as you said.
As for the tank, yes, he was very much fake. Had no taunts at all. None slotted, admitted it himself when I asked why he was leading the shield boss (in MoS) right into the rest of the group. So after two wipes, a proven fake tank and refusing to listen when I tried to teach those people the mechs, I was the one who got kicked. That's some gratitude.

People with “wrong” gear do not likely have other gear to swap to. When I was a new healer and when I was a new tank, I only had one setup. I also have met a healer who was told that they should wear spc or olorime and they didn’t have it on them so they couldn’t swap. Besides, while there are BiS gear choices, that doesn’t mean other ones are wrong. If you do want to still give people advice they didn’t ask for you need to be very careful with your wording because yeah, “your gear is wrong” is not gonna go over well. Something like “hey healer wanted to let you know most DPS expect major courage from you, spell power cure set is the best for that” is a lot nicer because it’s not so targetted and feels more like an option. I do give supports advice very rarely but I have not been attacked for doing so.
As for the tank, might’ve just been a pre-made group and thus they kicked you instead of their friend. Dunno how they expect a fake tank in MoS to go… they are absolutely doomed… but their problem. You getting kicked in that situation if anything is great because no queue cooldown and don’t need to deal with the fake tank.

Ph1p

Soarora wrote: »

OP had no such misfortune. Read the post again, OP is the one being intolerant to others and complaining because people don’t like their comments.

Let's just call it "benefit of the doubt" After all, we miss a lot of information - e.g., was it vet or normal, what were the actual chats and replies, were the other players random or already grouped and queuing for a 4th... And if you're right, it just reinforces my point that truly toxic people are the exception and that most people won't kick you without a reason.

Soarora

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Do you think players who come on these forums complaining about “fake dps” will become more tolerant of those lower end players?

I think these players are a minority, who will complain and be intolerant no matter what ZOS does in the next patch. I think OP had the misfortune to encounter several such players in a row, which is not representative of the ESO community as a whole. I also think that "normal" people, who don't randomly kick or insult inexperienced players, won't suddenly become toxic jerks because a DD drops from 22k to 21k DPS in a dungeon. Finally, I think the bottom line remains that finding a guild or community is the best way to avoid these issues.

OP had no such misfortune. Read the post again, OP is the one being intolerant to others and complaining because people don’t like their comments.

I have been called fake dd and kicked too, several times. Only didn't talk about that part because this thing is a much worse case than my being kicked for being a bad DD. And while I have called out others who don't meet the standards, I never told them to leave or try to kick. Somehow it's me on the receiving end in both situations.

“DPS is too low” is going to make people feel defeated regardless on if you tell people to leave or not. And if your DPS is lower or looks like it would be lower than the other DPS then logically, you’d be the one replaced, if they aren’t simply unhappy from the original comment itself. Even when I’m doing like 30% of the damage as a tank I do not comment on peoples DPS. Yes that run was extremely painful but it’s just not worth commenting on unless it becomes a genuine roadblock. People will learn when they come to DPS checks that the game itself does in fact need them to do more damage, and it gives a specific goal for them to work on clearing.

Biscuit_290

Damn who would have thought people in this game were so sensitive. On the other hand we got the regular fps and mobas where cursing is laughed off and meanings understood without blowing up over it. I'll just keep off the group chat from here on out; maybe find some way to hide that channel.

Biscuit_290

Thanks for all the replies.

FantasticFreddie

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand. Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits. I am not exaggerating one bit. Never had as bad an experience in any game to date as I have in eso for the past couple of months, and this is coming from someone who's been playing dead by daylight for years...Think about that

Last week I asked in zone chat of someone would share dragonguard dailies with me so I could unlock the achievement vendor and not only did 3 people reply, but they were patient enough to hold off on dropping their quests until I could do them all one after another.

I was also in a random normal and when the new player (who it seems did not know how to use chat) got lost our super speedy 2000 CP player went back and fetched him, and brought him to the correct location.

Groups are what you make of them. I don't *** at fake tanks, if I can see they aren't doing their job I just slap a taunt on and tell them to go full DD.
I also don't whine about people being low dps. If we are in a vet and I don't have time to finish, I say that, politely, then wish them luck and head out. If I DO have time to finish and I just feel mildly inconvenienced, I shut my mouth and play. If someone seems new, with low CP I might ask if they need a guild or some gear to help get them sorted, but otherwise I just mind my own business and play.

Tl;DR:
This sounds like a you problem, people in general are helpful and cooperative, if you are finding them otherwise it might be time to reflect on how YOU are engaging with the world around you.

Amottica

I can only imagine OP is running with pugs or worse, GF groups.

I always recommend finding a good active guild to run with.

It took a trying a few guilds but I did find own that works for me. I was and am able to get a dungeon group together fairly quickly.

I used to raid seriously but when I came to ESO I wanted to keep my game life simpler yet still do some raiding. This guild did mostly normal raids. I was able to get together a group interested in doing vet trials. It took some work and tole but we were able ti start clearing some of the DLC vet trials. One of the ladies told me that she noticed other aspects of the game had become easier. That she noticed she had become a better player.

The point is, run with a group that builds you up instead of people who tear you down.

ixthUA

It takes years to learn a role, a lot of players who are not utilizing their role to the fullest. It cannot be fixed by giving advises to strangers.

Soarora

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

What? Okay, first of all, the people following youtuber builds are mid-gamers who don’t know how to build for themselves. If that’s who the “elites” are then honestly, let them think that because they have no ground to stand on. I have never seen anyone genuinely ask for payment for killing a worldboss either. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but again, few bad apples doesn’t ruin the bunch.

[edited to remove quote]

Dr_Con

BlueRaven wrote: »

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand. Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits. I am not exaggerating one bit. Never had as bad an experience in any game to date as I have in eso for the past couple of months, and this is coming from someone who's been playing dead by daylight for years...Think about that

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

It's not a nerf to mid-low end players it's a nerf to the options of all players since it was a buff that is being adjusted. They are also increasing build options with some of the new mythics, where light attacking will have minimal impact and abilities will count for more.

This post bleeds of hyperbole and outright wrong statements.

BlueRaven

Dr_Con wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Biscuit_290 wrote: »

These days it's impossible to use the chat in this game. You either get ignored or a toxic response, even when it's a harmless question. The number of people who have replied with a straight answer, and not some deliberately insulting way, I could count on one hand. Said someone is using wrong gear? Leave or kick. Said dps numbers are low? Leave or kick. Hell even calling out someone for fake tanking in a dlc dungeon and wiping the group got me kicked instead of them.
This is the pits. I am not exaggerating one bit. Never had as bad an experience in any game to date as I have in eso for the past couple of months, and this is coming from someone who's been playing dead by daylight for years...Think about that

It will be getting worse.

Necrom has a targeted damage nerf to mid and low end players, so more players are going to be kicked from groups due to poor performance.

Also zos has turned world events into something more exclusive to higher end players, with closed (non queue-able) groups. And then placed part of the new ToT deck behind it.
So expect gate keeping facing off against very casual (now even lower dps) players who normally don’t want to group with anyone in the first place.

Necrom potentially is the chapter that will devastatingly break the community.

It's not a nerf to mid-low end players it's a nerf to the options of all players since it was a buff that is being adjusted. They are also increasing build options with some of the new mythics, where light attacking will have minimal impact and abilities will count for more.

This post bleeds of hyperbole and outright wrong statements.

“It’s not a nerf, their dps is just being adjusted to be lower.”

And as a build “option” are you talking about the amulet which has been shown to have no affect on overall dps?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633451/velothi-ur-mage-s-amulet-no-difference-in-parse-dummy-3m-solo-noob-player

So their “build option” is to not improve their dps. Great. Well, problem solved, I guess.

ArchMikem

Some of your examples aren't really helping your case. I'd get peeved too if someone told me my gear is wrong or my dps isn't good enough for them. If your intent is to help, don't bother if they don't ask. You can't make a Horse drink.

kringled_1

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

Wut
I have no idea what you mean by controlled by elites, ZOS is the only entity who controls group content.
No other player, no matter how much of a snobby elitist, can prevent you and 3 friends from going into dungeons or arenas, and they can't prevent you from clearing.
I'm sure there are people who run builds identical to YouTube builds who are lazy/don't care and don't understand them. There's also people who do run those or similar builds who have a decent understanding of the game but pick the same sets for any of a number of reasons. Your distaste for "content creators" isn't a good reason for anyone to try to shut down people from talking about their builds, let alone ban them for it.
Oh, and I dont think I've ever seen the "pay me to help with a WB" thing either. Sometimes people get help quickly, sometimes its crickets because everyone else is busy. But not much outside of that.

[edited to remove quote]

FantasticFreddie

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

I've never once seen someone asking to be paid for helping at a world boss. I've seen people ask you to share the daily quest if you have it, but I've never seen someone ask to get paid for a world boss. Literally never. Picts or it didn't happen.

There are HUNDREDS of sets in this game. More power to the people that take the time to go through them and number crunch. I do not, in fact, have time for that, nor do I find math the slightest bit fun, but I absolutely appreciate the people who DO have time for that and find the math fun.
There are also people who share themed builds that are just for fun, and again, more power to them. Not everyone knows about every set in the game, so if someone finds a build video helpful, doesn't bother me one bit.
Group content is not controlled by elites. I literally have no idea what that is even supposed to mean.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

BlueRaven

Castagere wrote: »

[snip]

The community has turned south, but it’s not exactly zos that did it alone

Zos tried to raise the floor dps in a way that the higher end dps players would not want to take advantage of (the oak ring), which was admirable.

Then the higher end community went into a rage because lower end dps was reaching numbers and doing content that they did not “deserve” to do or have.

And Zos capitulated, nerfing oak, souring the low end, while also not appeasing the upper end.

And that is where we are now. Zos continually nerfing low end dps via the oak ring, and high end players still not happy because any nerf is still not enough. Already there are videos saying that oak could use another nerf, “too tanky” is their current gripe.

With Necrom zos tried to add a new mythic to help people who were not great at weaving, and the high end community brow beat them into making it a dps neutral enhancement.

Also the high end wanted additional “difficult” content, so zos converted a communal activity (world events) that were aimed at all players, into something just for more veteran players. Taking that content away from casual players and not replacing it with anything (while also placing ToT elements in it, further depriving casual players of content).

So yes the community is getting worse and it is partially zos’s doing. But that is not the whole picture.

[edited to remove quote]