Velothi Ur-Mage’s Amulet Change

Lucifer9th

at least change minor force in major force, the set lose a lot of pen but still win 5% crit damage in compensation
they exist already many things to have access to minor force but not for major force

acastanza_ESO

Lucifer9th wrote: »

at least change minor force in major force, the set lose a lot of pen but still win 5% crit damage in compensation
they exist already many things to have access to minor force but not for major force

This would actually be a really good change. The amulet would be slightly less useless than it is now for unoptimized groups, but wouldn't give much if anything to the highly optimized groups that already rotate warhorns.

SkaraMinoc

Dragonredux wrote: »

Right now this mythic is following the Oakensoul pattern again

Stage 1) Mythic comes with unnamed buffs

Stage 2) Nerf the mythic with named buffs to make it unappealing (we are here)

Stage 3) Overbuff it before live

Stage 4) Wait a patch or two

Stage 5) Nerf Mythic

We mistakenly forgot a zero. Offensive penetration has been increased from 1650 to 10650

Tanis-Stormbinder

Their have been a few good suggestions lets hope a little something can be added to make it a little more spicy.

Soarora

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

It's useless. There are about 2000 ways to get minor force. The 15% isn't really gonna do much. And let's just be real here. The pen was fine. It'll go over cap in pve. But pvp.... The mass population for cyrodiil seems to have a max HP creep seems like everyone is at 35k HP. Plus cross healing and maras balm. Takes any fun out of pvp the first iteration was just fine

No there isn’t? In terms of skill choice (not sacrificing armor spots), I only know of two. Channeled acceleration and trap beast. The pen was not fine if people were going to be building support set choice around the pen. If you insist it’s useless, that suits me fine. I hope everyone continues to think it’s useless. It should not ever be BiS. It should not be buffed.

You're still giving up and armor slot....

Yes. One. Rather than 2 or 5. And the crit isn’t even important whatsoever, the 15% damage done is. It’s not supposed to be better than 2 5pc, monster set, arena set or 2 5pc, 1pc monster, kilt/moras/etc, arena set. It’s supposed to support a playstyle that feels unrecognized. Like how Oakensoul was supposed to support 1-bar builds and Belharza was supposed to support LA builds. It SHOULD look dead on arrival for most people. It’s not for them. It’s not even really for me either, I like weaving. I’m only so interested in it so I can have a backup (worse but still viable) build I can swap to when my wrist/hand hurts so I don’t have to quit mid content and because there’s SO many talks about hating weaving.

Why not as good as the Kilt or Moras for those in need, it serves the same purpose.

Key words: “for those in need”. If the mythic is too good, it’ll be oakenHA 2. Though this isn’t nearly as bad I would much rather velothi meta than oakensoul meta. But I don’t think it’s strong enough to overtake oakensoul where it’s currently in use so it’d just make the whole problem worse AND… important thing here… would you rather it be nerfed now or have it come out super strong, everyone uses it, oops too much use, nerf?

Soarora

Greystag wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

the change to minor force is actually a blessing for me as now the mythic deals with two of my problems: trap uptimes and in-content weaving.

Even if you weren't using trap with it, it's still 5% less crit damage with the change... And we already have item sets that provide that buff if you need the extra skill slot or don't want to use it.

On a side note, with the main issue this mythic has being AoE damage, why not make its buffs apply only when attacking a single target? Make it a debuff tied to your LAs, similar to how Frostbite increases your damage done to an enemy you've chilled.

Crit is easy to come by, though. When I first set up the arcanist I was testing it on I went way over crit cap and I think that was even while medium armor passives were broken. That said, I would have no problem with changes to the mythic I’m just extremely concerned about it ever becoming BiS.

ketsparrowhawk

Completely dumpstered for PvP use. 1pc valkyn gives almost the same pen and there are lots of easy sources of min force. Would be a waste of a mythic slot. Perhaps still usable in solo PVE idk.

alternatelder

I stopped reading the notes at this point, I won't bother reading week 5. From here on out, balancing is completely out of the question and there is no use even hoping. From decent looking alternative mythic all the way down to useless. It's not even this, it's just everything completely out of whack.

I will just stick to playing the new storylines and then I'm out, back to whatever else there is to do outside of ESO. This combat team is something else these days...

Tanis-Stormbinder

Soarora wrote: »

Greystag wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

the change to minor force is actually a blessing for me as now the mythic deals with two of my problems: trap uptimes and in-content weaving.

Even if you weren't using trap with it, it's still 5% less crit damage with the change... And we already have item sets that provide that buff if you need the extra skill slot or don't want to use it.

On a side note, with the main issue this mythic has being AoE damage, why not make its buffs apply only when attacking a single target? Make it a debuff tied to your LAs, similar to how Frostbite increases your damage done to an enemy you've chilled.

Crit is easy to come by, though. When I first set up the arcanist I was testing it on I went way over crit cap and I think that was even while medium armor passives were broken. That said, I would have no problem with changes to the mythic I’m just extremely concerned about it ever becoming BiS.

Your concerns are noted and vaild but this Mythic still needs something more to make it worth while.

Raammzzaa

I also think this change is great. Now there’s nothing coming out with this chapter that I really need to farm.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Raammzzaa wrote: »

I also think this change is great. Now there’s nothing coming out with this chapter that I really need to farm.

LOL

Soarora

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Greystag wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

the change to minor force is actually a blessing for me as now the mythic deals with two of my problems: trap uptimes and in-content weaving.

Even if you weren't using trap with it, it's still 5% less crit damage with the change... And we already have item sets that provide that buff if you need the extra skill slot or don't want to use it.

On a side note, with the main issue this mythic has being AoE damage, why not make its buffs apply only when attacking a single target? Make it a debuff tied to your LAs, similar to how Frostbite increases your damage done to an enemy you've chilled.

Crit is easy to come by, though. When I first set up the arcanist I was testing it on I went way over crit cap and I think that was even while medium armor passives were broken. That said, I would have no problem with changes to the mythic I’m just extremely concerned about it ever becoming BiS.

Your concerns are noted and vaild but this Mythic still needs something more to make it worth while.

Fair enough, thank you for understanding my concerns. Means a lot.

Danse_Mayhem

This was for sure overtuned for PVP, but now useless in both sides. Nerfed way too hard.

StarOfElyon

Soarora wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

It's useless. There are about 2000 ways to get minor force. The 15% isn't really gonna do much. And let's just be real here. The pen was fine. It'll go over cap in pve. But pvp.... The mass population for cyrodiil seems to have a max HP creep seems like everyone is at 35k HP. Plus cross healing and maras balm. Takes any fun out of pvp the first iteration was just fine

No there isn’t? In terms of skill choice (not sacrificing armor spots), I only know of two. Channeled acceleration and trap beast. The pen was not fine if people were going to be building support set choice around the pen. If you insist it’s useless, that suits me fine. I hope everyone continues to think it’s useless. It should not ever be BiS. It should not be buffed.

You're still giving up and armor slot....

Yes. One. Rather than 2 or 5. And the crit isn’t even important whatsoever, the 15% damage done is. It’s not supposed to be better than 2 5pc, monster set, arena set or 2 5pc, 1pc monster, kilt/moras/etc, arena set. It’s supposed to support a playstyle that feels unrecognized. Like how Oakensoul was supposed to support 1-bar builds and Belharza was supposed to support LA builds. It SHOULD look dead on arrival for most people. It’s not for them. It’s not even really for me either, I like weaving. I’m only so interested in it so I can have a backup (worse but still viable) build I can swap to when my wrist/hand hurts so I don’t have to quit mid content and because there’s SO many talks about hating weaving.

Why not as good as the Kilt or Moras for those in need, it serves the same purpose.

Key words: “for those in need”. If the mythic is too good, it’ll be oakenHA 2. Though this isn’t nearly as bad I would much rather velothi meta than oakensoul meta. But I don’t think it’s strong enough to overtake oakensoul where it’s currently in use so it’d just make the whole problem worse AND… important thing here… would you rather it be nerfed now or have it come out super strong, everyone uses it, oops too much use, nerf?

As a person who light attack weaves very imperfectly, I don't see it as a necessity to completing any content. I can see not being able to bar swap as a problem, definitely.

I don't even see a need for this mythic. That gap between light attack weaving and non-weaving doesn't need to be closed.

YandereGirlfriend

Mega-RIP to this Mythic.

It saves everyone the headache of farming it, I suppose.

Soarora

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

It's useless. There are about 2000 ways to get minor force. The 15% isn't really gonna do much. And let's just be real here. The pen was fine. It'll go over cap in pve. But pvp.... The mass population for cyrodiil seems to have a max HP creep seems like everyone is at 35k HP. Plus cross healing and maras balm. Takes any fun out of pvp the first iteration was just fine

No there isn’t? In terms of skill choice (not sacrificing armor spots), I only know of two. Channeled acceleration and trap beast. The pen was not fine if people were going to be building support set choice around the pen. If you insist it’s useless, that suits me fine. I hope everyone continues to think it’s useless. It should not ever be BiS. It should not be buffed.

You're still giving up and armor slot....

Yes. One. Rather than 2 or 5. And the crit isn’t even important whatsoever, the 15% damage done is. It’s not supposed to be better than 2 5pc, monster set, arena set or 2 5pc, 1pc monster, kilt/moras/etc, arena set. It’s supposed to support a playstyle that feels unrecognized. Like how Oakensoul was supposed to support 1-bar builds and Belharza was supposed to support LA builds. It SHOULD look dead on arrival for most people. It’s not for them. It’s not even really for me either, I like weaving. I’m only so interested in it so I can have a backup (worse but still viable) build I can swap to when my wrist/hand hurts so I don’t have to quit mid content and because there’s SO many talks about hating weaving.

Why not as good as the Kilt or Moras for those in need, it serves the same purpose.

Key words: “for those in need”. If the mythic is too good, it’ll be oakenHA 2. Though this isn’t nearly as bad I would much rather velothi meta than oakensoul meta. But I don’t think it’s strong enough to overtake oakensoul where it’s currently in use so it’d just make the whole problem worse AND… important thing here… would you rather it be nerfed now or have it come out super strong, everyone uses it, oops too much use, nerf?

As a person who light attack weaves very imperfectly, I don't see it as a necessity to completing any content. I can see not being able to bar swap as a problem, definitely.

I don't even see a need for this mythic. That gap between light attack weaving and non-weaving doesn't need to be closed.

I do agree that weaving isn't actually a necessity but lots of people seem to be under the impression that it is. I was hoping that this mythic would highlight not weaving as a viable playstyle.

James-Wayne

I've been testing the changes and you might as well stay with Oakensoul it's just a all round better mythic even if you can't weave.

This mythic has nothing exciting for it. Devs need to understand your giving up a set piece to run a mythic so your options for sets that apply damage or buffs are already reduced.

Zezin

Syiccal wrote: »

Ppl that weave perfectly wouldn't use this any way as even before the hammer those that weave perfect would take a dps hit wearing it. All they have done is penalise those that don't want to light att weave or can't quiet manage it. It was fine as it was

Not really, I weave dang near perfectly and I was looking forward to this.

XSTRONG

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Reduced the amount of Offensive Penetration this set grants to 1650, down from 4968.
This set now grants Minor Force while worn, rather than increasing your Critical Damage done by a unique 15%.
Should have left it alone, it was fine as it was.

Wow that sucks! When did they start nerfing mythics to death before they go live in a new chapter?

ricklaverd

Who's going to farm that. I get removing the pen but this isnt interesting anymore

bachpain

It isn't worth an armor slot. The damage you would lose by slotting it it wouldn't be regained by what it brings unless you literally have one hand and cannot LA weave. It would be better to use another mythic or no mythic and a full monster set.

magikyr

so after the nerf I can also like to put on a monster set than the amulet

as an example
Archdruid Devyric
Valkyn Skoria
...

Catagami

So I don't fully understand why everyone is saying this is dead, at least from a PvE perspective.
If you lose up to 10% damage from LA, but gain 15% damage, you'de be at 103.5% damage, and get minor force and a pen line on top of that. That should make it decently competitive with other mythics wouldn't it?
On avarage, how much dps increase do mora's or kilt add?

Medicate

i also wish they would not give it minor force, but a unique buff. Named buffs have the problem of being already present in most group/player setups.
why not 8-10% Cirtdamage?
there are so many good sources for minor force, i don't need another.

BahometZ

Someone needs to tell zos you don't usually switch the bait this early.

Ecgberht_confused

In fairness, I think it's good that they did the nerf now not after it hit live and people bought the chapter. I don't think the nerf is called for or proportionate, the ring was already not very useful in pvp and optimised pve. Now I can only see it (maybe) useful for an arcanist build that heavily utilises the beam. And even then Oakensoul might be better (need to test). But it's good that they nerfed it now not 3 months after it reaches live.

ZhuJiuyin

Medicate wrote: »

i also wish they would not give it minor force, but a unique buff. Named buffs have the problem of being already present in most group/player setups.
why not 8-10% Cirtdamage?
there are so many good sources for minor force, i don't need another.

Agreed, given that ZOS shoves minor force to Sorcerer (repeat, Sorcerer needs major prophecy/savagery!!), it makes minor force very ubiquitous, after we have Tzogvin, Trap Beast, Accelerate, Grave Inevitability, we really have to No need for more minor force sources

magikyr

Medicate wrote: »

i also wish they would not give it minor force, but a unique buff. Named buffs have the problem of being already present in most group/player setups.
why not 8-10% Cirtdamage?
there are so many good sources for minor force, i don't need another.

maybe 10% critchance little bit better

jaws343

Catagami wrote: »

So I don't fully understand why everyone is saying this is dead, at least from a PvE perspective.
If you lose up to 10% damage from LA, but gain 15% damage, you'de be at 103.5% damage, and get minor force and a pen line on top of that. That should make it decently competitive with other mythics wouldn't it?
On avarage, how much dps increase do mora's or kilt add?

Yeah, I am finding the sky is falling rhetoric around the mythic odd.

It's a mythic that provides an avenue to raise the floor for players who aren't great at weaving. It has potential to take some midtier builds over the oakensoul dps floor, which is a great thing. And, for AOE fights, or even solo fights where you are kiting and unable to get off a ton of light attacks, it drastically improves damage.

The only place this isn't going to be good at is people who are experts at parsing on a dummy. In actual content, it is going to be a really solid option.

ElderSmitter

ESO can still fix this next Patch update. They could just be tinkering with it. They can Increase Pen to 3,000 Decrease Crit Damage to 8-10% and leave the 15% Damage to monsters alone. Problem solved. No need to change it to Minor Force. Also, players who Hate on LA Weaving are mostly folks who just do not understand how easy it really is or what weaving even is. It's an Enigma that End Game Players have some magical Weaving ability which is just not the case. It is a simple as clicking your mouse to light attack in between the 1 second cool down of casting your abilities that is it. Using this Mythic you will still Light attack to build your Ultimate and proc your Enchantments.