Thoughts of a Random Guy on Necrom Changes to HA / Heavy-Attack builds & on Arcanist

BaalMelqartu

AScarlato wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 6% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

You don't seem to understand. There is no justification for the nerfs at all as far as I'm concerned. The percentages you list are irrelevant to me.

I get that you do not want or like the change but claiming "no justification" to the changes when SO many players demanded changes does not make sense. I don't agree with the people wanting it all nerfed but I can't just pretend they don't exist. Refusing to compromise at all has never been a helpful strategy.

Why were they demanding changes? An ego thing? This is already worse than those playing harder 2 bar builds. I guess disabled players, players with repetitive hand injuries, or others who don’t like or can’t keep up with constant clicking shouldn’t get to feel like meaningful contributors and stick to their face roll content?

For PvE cooperative content what was the harm exactly?

They were demanding changes for reasons that are their own, you can look at the other threads about heavy attacks and get those answers for yourself. As I said, I don't agree with them so I don't really want to take the time to defend their point of view.

In no way was I stating that "I guess disabled players, players with repetitive hand injuries, or others who don’t like or can’t keep up with constant clicking shouldn’t get to feel like meaningful contributors and stick to their face roll content?" It is unfair to exaggerate and apply this to me. I have defended these individuals in other threads about the validity of heavy attack builds. I also have poor internet and CANNOT make high dps numbers on light attack builds so I am extra sensitive to issues of some kind or other keeping you uncompetitive.

There is a HUGE difference between a SMALL nerf and "the build is now unplayable"

I understand now that this nerf is bigger to those who were using it in PVP. For PVE however, you can still do VERY well so acting as though they destroyed heavy attack builds seems extreme. They could have done SO many worse things based on all the people wanting worse things done.

AScarlato

I didn’t apply it to you, but you did bring up those people. Never once did I say specifically these were your opinions but you did use such posters to further your point of view.

BaalMelqartu

I see, I apologize for misunderstanding.

AScarlato

No worries. I do understand this was a big call for nerfs. Im just trying to really understand the point of view. If we are all on the same team don’t we all benefit from more happy and productive players in PvE? Just my thought.

Soarora

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Nerfing empower = lowering the floor.

Genuine question, how much is the learning curve on HA oakensorc? If it’s not very steep then I’d consider it more of lowering the ceiling of the floor. It’s not okay for an objectively easy build to do the same that a traditional build does. By definition, I am gatekeeping but by doing so ensuring delayed gratification and fighting entitlement. A newbie SHOULDNT be in a trial HM or doing dungeon trifectas, there’s a progression to the game. And not everything can be accessible for all people. I consider myself lucky and I’m greatful I enjoy PvP and PvE and thus am not truly locked out of anything. But, as I may want emperor, I’m okay never getting it and I probably won’t. Same thing for trial trifectas. I want Swashbuckler, I haven’t even done HM. I’m okay with never getting it. I admit that these are accessible to me in time and I feel for those who are disabled but how do you support those who are disabled without enabling newbies to skip progression? I hope more can be done in the form of a more complex HA build that is closer in difficulty to a traditional build and no-weave support (which would work with a traditional build).

At the end of the day, I don’t think ZOS nerfed HA because of the forum posts, I think ZOS nerfed HA because people were getting trifectas with it. And I can be okay with HA in HMs but HA in a tri I just can’t. There’s 0 reason for trifecta accessibility. There’s no new mechanics to see, it’s not any different than a no-death run (just hm at the same time), it’s the endgame. And it barely even gives anything anyways, maybe a title or a mount… MAYBE.

Lumenn

Auldwulfe wrote: »

What I am finding to be hilarious is that the same exact names that had almost total meltdowns, and threatened to quit, with the U35 nerf to light attacks, are now crowing about other people being nerfed......

There are other ways to do this.... and get right back to about the same damage....and there are ways to do it with an equally slow rotation.... it can be done. But, what this does do is create a negative net promoter score for the game... a business term that ZOS might want to research. It's already out in the dozen or so discord channels I am part of, that don't relate to this game... people are already talking about how the game has been nerfed to get rid of players with disability..... and trust me, it's loud......

The numbers of people who are saying "glad I don't waste money on that "*** matter" show of a game" is on the rise.... but I am sure that the people happy for any nerf will also be equally excited to buy crates to keep the game going......

And, no, I am not saying this nerf is going to destroy the game..... but it is creating a LOT of negative comments in places where people are allowed to talk about how they really feel without snips, or edits.

Every person that has not, yet, played the game, but decides not to bother, due to those comments is a loss that can't be regained...
When you add the other problems... lack of a good tutorial, lack of any real progress..... terrible reward structure... over monetization... it's just one more negative on a pile of negatives with the game.

A lot of people play for fun... and if they feel that the fun was taken away... they WILL take their wallets away......
Any nerf should have a clear reason... not be the result of a small group of people whining, which this appears to be. And, NO ONE should be happy about any nerf.... I'd be unhappy if they put light attacks on the GCD... and it is a possibility.... ZOS could, at any time, decide that the animation cancelling exploit is an issue, and nerf that....... U35 already showed that nothing is sacred.

I'd keep that in mind, because I can easily see a Dev note stating "Relequen has been used in too many builds, and to promote build diversity, we removed it from the game, or nerfed it to need a proc, to give it 1 second of ability, with a 30 second cooldown, etc.

I am sure if Pillars of Nirn got a huge nerf, people would not be happy.....
It would be best to commiserate with those that are now getting a nerf slap to the head, and work with them to come up with another build.... gloating is just one more reason for them to leave the financial overhead of this game on your shoulders. And unless you want to pay more and more just to keep what you have..... I'd avoid giving people a reason to walk away.

Auldwulfe

While I don't always agree on every point Auldwulfe makes, this was VERY well said. I've often wondered what would happen if zos dropped overall dps so that we HAD to follow mechanics. 2bar capped at 70k dps if you're perfect (that's enough to clear isn't it? Thought I saw something like that here) No more skipping portals etc. I'm almost positive that it would impact the profits immensely, and I'm fairly certain the developers know this as well. On these forums there is a poll on weaving, and it's split roughly half and half(slightly in the lead for hating it. HALF ARE AGAINST IT) and that's on the forums, where we have people invested enough to come to the website, much less the casuals that don't bother. Having been given a viable path besides what I call the finger waltz, zos should be careful with 5o% despising having to weave.

As Auldwulfe mentioned, in places where there are less snips and cuts the game isn't being covered in glory. On THESE home forums we've had an unfortunate incident with art and bots taking over and kicking paying customers from the game. Zos is going to do what zos wants, they always have, but here on the home forums let's have some class and not gloat please.

zaria

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Another thing to keep in mind is that DPS "acceptability" is not really continuous. Right now, if a guild or group is looking for a DPS and you have a HA build, it is usually a case of, "Not gonna be as high numbers as a 'real DPS', but close enough, so I'll invite." But once the numbers drop low enough, even if they are plenty good enough for a clear, you will start to hear a lot of, "They have enough to clear but are gonna slow us down - don't invite them."

50k DPS in Maw of Lorkhaj used to be one-in-a-million Top 0.0001% elite. No one, and I mean no one, wants a 50k DPS in their vMOL run nowadays. So this idea that, "You still have enough to clear," is absolutely true but not all that relevant. HA builds don't need to do the same DPS as LA weaving builds. But they have to be close enough where guild leaders and trial organizers don't feel they are a hindrance. Depending on how the dust settles, it is possible, and even probable, that HA builds will do enough DPS to clear, but not enough DPS to be welcome in most groups.

Saying 75k+ dps isn't enough to be welcome in most groups is disingenuous. Group leaders requiring more dps than that are either score pushing, going for HM progs, or just bad raid leaders that don't understand how much dps is actually necessary. All of these are issues with the group itself and not issues with Oaken HA builds. If you're getting turned away from groups, join a guild that's more welcoming; there's plenty of Vet Trial guilds that would be more than comfortable welcoming Oaken HA builds as long as you're willing to learn mechanics.

Edit: also important to note the 50k of those days is the same as the 100k from present day due to the trial dummies. Requirements haven't changed, the inclusion of the Trial dummy just multiplied everyone's numbers. Shoutout to parsing on Bloodspawn

If you are an serious trial guild or an serious trial group inside an guild you want to keep your average dps as high as possible.
You only lower requirements if you are short of players. Now I tried the HA build but not able to get it to work.
Yes it was an buff for my Altmer sorcerer but 25K on the 6K dummy is not impressive, my magplar does that while getting thanked for great healing without using an resto staff 😺 after templar got nerfed hard.
Had I got 35k dps I would be interested as I know my rotation was far from perfect but it was not an setup who required perfect rotation.

Shihp00

loveeso wrote: »

(from 80% to 70%)

wait, That's a "Nerf"? lol.. Sheesh

CGPsaint

Shihp00 wrote: »

loveeso wrote: »

(from 80% to 70%)

wait, That's a "Nerf"? lol.. Sheesh

I guarantee that the average HA build user is not hitting the damage ceiling of the build, so yes, this is in fact a nerf for those players. ZOS talks a good talk about making more content accessible to more players, and then turns around and caters to the content creators and the people who speak the loudest about how it's not fair that other people can do decent DPS without all of the effort of a standard 2-bar build. It's simple, if people don't want to play with people using HA builds, then they don't have to. Not sure why people need to keep crying for nerfs for things that have zero impact on them.

Shihp00

CGPsaint wrote: »

Shihp00 wrote: »

loveeso wrote: »

(from 80% to 70%)

wait, That's a "Nerf"? lol.. Sheesh

I guarantee that the average HA build user is not hitting the damage ceiling of the build, so yes, this is in fact a nerf for those players.

Aah, makes sense. You're right.

jaws343

CGPsaint wrote: »

Shihp00 wrote: »

loveeso wrote: »

(from 80% to 70%)

wait, That's a "Nerf"? lol.. Sheesh

I guarantee that the average HA build user is not hitting the damage ceiling of the build, so yes, this is in fact a nerf for those players. ZOS talks a good talk about making more content accessible to more players, and then turns around and caters to the content creators and the people who speak the loudest about how it's not fair that other people can do decent DPS without all of the effort of a standard 2-bar build. It's simple, if people don't want to play with people using HA builds, then they don't have to. Not sure why people need to keep crying for nerfs for things that have zero impact on them.

Since it is a % and at the top end DPS, that % off empower is only like a 4% overall nerf to dps output, then no actually. Lower end DPS players will see less than a 4% difference to their parse as a result of the empower nerf. This is based on numbers from another thread.

CameraBeardThePirate

Here's a parse of the exact same Meta Oakensoul HA build on PTS (Sergeants and Storm Master's). Note: Parses on PTS are missing 10% crit damage because of bugged medium armor passives, meaning actual numbers will be even higher. This was also a Warden; Sorc should be even higher.



87k dps. Sorry but if you're telling me a build pulling 87k dps isn't going to be let into a trial group, find a different trial group.

Hapexamendios

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Here's a parse of the exact same Meta Oakensoul HA build on PTS (Sergeants and Storm Master's). Note: Parses on PTS are missing 10% crit damage because of bugged medium armor passives, meaning actual numbers will be even higher. This was also a Warden; Sorc should be even higher.



87k dps. Sorry but if you're telling me a build pulling 87k dps isn't going to be let into a trial group, find a different trial group.

I can't say anything about the trial group, but I do believe the majority of people using HA build can't hit 87k. I know I can't.

CameraBeardThePirate

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Here's a parse of the exact same Meta Oakensoul HA build on PTS (Sergeants and Storm Master's). Note: Parses on PTS are missing 10% crit damage because of bugged medium armor passives, meaning actual numbers will be even higher. This was also a Warden; Sorc should be even higher.



87k dps. Sorry but if you're telling me a build pulling 87k dps isn't going to be let into a trial group, find a different trial group.

I can't say anything about the trial group, but I do believe the majority of people using HA build can't hit 87k. I know I can't.

But at that point it has nothing to do with build. If it's possible to hit that high, even after the nerfs, no one should be saying that these nerfs are going to keep people out of trials because they won't.

Hapexamendios

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Here's a parse of the exact same Meta Oakensoul HA build on PTS (Sergeants and Storm Master's). Note: Parses on PTS are missing 10% crit damage because of bugged medium armor passives, meaning actual numbers will be even higher. This was also a Warden; Sorc should be even higher.



87k dps. Sorry but if you're telling me a build pulling 87k dps isn't going to be let into a trial group, find a different trial group.

I can't say anything about the trial group, but I do believe the majority of people using HA build can't hit 87k. I know I can't.

But at that point it has nothing to do with build. If it's possible to hit that high, even after the nerfs, no one should be saying that these nerfs are going to keep people out of trials because they won't.

Possibilities and reality are very different. As I stated, the majority of is can't reach that and I didn't say anything about trials.

rpa

OP you bettec check if your recurring 12 month sub actually renewed as 12 month and not as 30 day sub. It was changed and for some reason it is only detailed on checkout when paying for sub first time.

Tradewind

All i can say.

HA players not only face humiliation but also do less damage now.

Ghaleb

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

But at that point it has nothing to do with build. If it's possible to hit that high, even after the nerfs, no one should be saying that these nerfs are going to keep people out of trials because they won't.

Possibilities and reality are very different. As I stated, the majority of is can't reach that and I didn't say anything about trials.

I agree to your summary, that theory and real life are often different. But I have to highlight, that during most discussions prior to this thread and seemingly small nerf to e.g. Empower, a decent amount of HA-Build enthusiasts were stating, that 2-bar builds easily do 130k DPS.

This was also always more referring to the top ~1-5% of the DPS players than the average Joe / Jane. Turning the argument now around doesn't make it more true.

No offense meant. Just an observation.

Stanelis

Ghaleb wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

But at that point it has nothing to do with build. If it's possible to hit that high, even after the nerfs, no one should be saying that these nerfs are going to keep people out of trials because they won't.

Possibilities and reality are very different. As I stated, the majority of is can't reach that and I didn't say anything about trials.

I agree to your summary, that theory and real life are often different. But I have to highlight, that during most discussions prior to this thread and seemingly small nerf to e.g. Empower, a decent amount of HA-Build enthusiasts were stating, that 2-bar builds easily do 130k DPS.

This was also always more referring to the top ~1-5% of the DPS players than the average Joe / Jane. Turning the argument now around doesn't make it more true.

No offense meant. Just an observation.

I mean everybody know that reaching 100 % theoretical DPS as light attack 2 bar setup is tedious, that's the whole point of the argument.

Anifaas

Very disappointed in ZOS. This situation reminds me of a quote by Civilisation game-designer, Soren Johnson:

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

This is what's happening here. If LA weaving on a two-bar spec is the best by a large enough margin then those who do not conform will find themselves increasingly excluded.

I've never seen people in other games complaining about other's DPS rotations. As long as you can hit the DPS threshold of the content, you're good to go. The more people who can hit the threshold the better. It is beyond absurd that ESO, a game which is regularly criticized for its combat system, would double down on the component of their combat system which many find frustrating. "Play how you want" will never happen in ESO as long as gatekeeping of DPS rotations remains a thing.

Right now ESO needs more build diversity, not less. These proposed changes are a step backwards.

BlueRaven

z

Anifaas wrote: »

…

Right now ESO needs more build diversity, not less. These proposed changes are a step backwards.

Yup, I agree.

I have nothing against the lightning staff HA one bar builds, nothing at all. I just wish there were similar type builds for other weapons and classes.

That (if you want to call it a complaint) is my only complaint.

CameraBeardThePirate

Anifaas wrote: »

Right now ESO needs more build diversity, not less. These proposed changes are a step backwards.

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

CGPsaint

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

If the difference is that small, then why does ZOS need to make the change?

CameraBeardThePirate

CGPsaint wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

If the difference is that small, then why does ZOS need to make the change?

Because it was overperforming. Not necessarily DPS wise, but just on the fact that you could hit above average dps while simultaneously not having to worry about sustain, being safe (as you're at range) and having some of the best cleave damage in the game (since the entire build is aoe).

Nerfing the damage down to be in line with the average build, while still maintaining its ease of use, safety, sustain, and cleave, is more than fair imo. I know I'll still be using it in all PvE content.

isadoraisacat

Anifaas wrote: »

Very disappointed in ZOS. This situation reminds me of a quote by Civilisation game-designer, Soren Johnson:

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

This is what's happening here. If LA weaving on a two-bar spec is the best by a large enough margin then those who do not conform will find themselves increasingly excluded.

I've never seen people in other games complaining about other's DPS rotations. As long as you can hit the DPS threshold of the content, you're good to go. The more people who can hit the threshold the better. It is beyond absurd that ESO, a game which is regularly criticized for its combat system, would double down on the component of their combat system which many find frustrating. "Play how you want" will never happen in ESO as long as gatekeeping of DPS rotations remains a thing.

Right now ESO needs more build diversity, not less. These proposed changes are a step backwards.

“Play how you want” is far from the truth in this game. [Snip]. Not everyone has the physical ability due to disability for pew pew combat and frankly it’s not a fun play style. It’s like guitar hero instead of a elder scrolls rpg.

Zos have to know at least 50 % of us maybe even more we’re not happy with weaving for various reasons. They gave us a a new way to play and brought back a lot of players and new players came in because of this. Now because [Snip] had to complain about the rare for minority of people doing 100k dps they ruined it for the rest of us causal players who are playing with friends only or solo who do not affect PvP or even hardcore end game stuff as we don’t even play it. My dps isn’t
Even close to 50k let alone 100. The usual player using this set up is not hitting 100k dps
And that is not the purpose the purpose is to be viable enough to solo world bosses and do normal
Dungeons and slowly progress gear into higher levels.

The only people hitting those high numbers are already experienced 2 bar players.

[Edited for bait]

CameraBeardThePirate

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

Very disappointed in ZOS. This situation reminds me of a quote by Civilisation game-designer, Soren Johnson:

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

This is what's happening here. If LA weaving on a two-bar spec is the best by a large enough margin then those who do not conform will find themselves increasingly excluded.

I've never seen people in other games complaining about other's DPS rotations. As long as you can hit the DPS threshold of the content, you're good to go. The more people who can hit the threshold the better. It is beyond absurd that ESO, a game which is regularly criticized for its combat system, would double down on the component of their combat system which many find frustrating. "Play how you want" will never happen in ESO as long as gatekeeping of DPS rotations remains a thing.

Right now ESO needs more build diversity, not less. These proposed changes are a step backwards.

“Play how you want” is far from the truth in this game. [Snip]. Not everyone has the physical ability due to disability for pew pew combat and frankly it’s not a fun play style. It’s like guitar hero instead of a elder scrolls rpg.

Zos have to know at least 50 % of us maybe even more we’re not happy with weaving for various reasons. They gave us a a new way to play and brought back a lot of players and new players came in because of this. Now because [Snip] had to complain about the rare for minority of people doing 100k dps they ruined it for the rest of us causal players who are playing with friends only or solo who do not affect PvP or even hardcore end game stuff as we don’t even play it. My dps isn’t
Even close to 50k let alone 100. The usual player using this set up is not hitting 100k dps
And that is not the purpose the purpose is to be viable enough to solo world bosses and do normal
Dungeons and slowly progress gear into higher levels.

The only people hitting those high numbers are already experienced 2 bar players.

If you're not hitting the potential "max" of the build (i.e., 100k dps), then this nerf will hardly affect you at all. It's only affecting the top parses by about 6% - if you're not hitting that "parse cap" of Oaken HA builds, then you'll see even less change then that.

It also means you'll still be able to get higher dps with practice.

[Edited quote]

isadoraisacat

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

If the difference is that small, then why does ZOS need to make the change?

Because it was overperforming. Not necessarily DPS wise, but just on the fact that you could hit above average dps while simultaneously not having to worry about sustain, being safe (as you're at range) and having some of the best cleave damage in the game (since the entire build is aoe).

Nerfing the damage down to be in line with the average build, while still maintaining its ease of use, safety, sustain, and cleave, is more than fair imo. I know I'll still be using it in all PvE content.

But the whole point is those with disabilities can not get a good dps out of the “average” build. They are bringing to line up with the prior you get the same damage with an ease of use but it’s usefulness is null when before you could actually hold your own In a dungeon and now you can’t.

You take the extreme minority of extreme 2 bar players with experience who abused this and ruin it for the disabled and less experienced.

[Snip]

[Edited for baiting]

isadoraisacat

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

Right now ESO needs more build diversity, not less. These proposed changes are a step backwards.

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

I bet if it was light attack 4 % drop you wouldn’t be happy

Auldwulfe

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

If the difference is that small, then why does ZOS need to make the change?

Because it was overperforming. Not necessarily DPS wise, but just on the fact that you could hit above average dps while simultaneously not having to worry about sustain, being safe (as you're at range) and having some of the best cleave damage in the game (since the entire build is aoe).

Nerfing the damage down to be in line with the average build, while still maintaining its ease of use, safety, sustain, and cleave, is more than fair imo. I know I'll still be using it in all PvE content.

Best part is that it is equally as easy to do without Oakensoul, because of the synergy between lightning staves, to a lesser extent restoration staves, and Sergeant's Mail

Auldwulfe

CameraBeardThePirate

isadoraisacat wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The proposed changes don't harm build diversity in the slightest. Oakensoul HA builds will only drop by about 4% DPS - still plenty strong enough to do all content.

If the difference is that small, then why does ZOS need to make the change?

Because it was overperforming. Not necessarily DPS wise, but just on the fact that you could hit above average dps while simultaneously not having to worry about sustain, being safe (as you're at range) and having some of the best cleave damage in the game (since the entire build is aoe).

Nerfing the damage down to be in line with the average build, while still maintaining its ease of use, safety, sustain, and cleave, is more than fair imo. I know I'll still be using it in all PvE content.

But the whole point is those with disabilities can not get a good dps out of the “average” build. They are bringing to line up with the prior you get the same damage with an ease of use but it’s usefulness is null when before you could actually hold your own In a dungeon and now you can’t.

You take the extreme minority of extreme 2 bar players with experience who abused this and ruin it for the disabled and less experienced.

[Snip]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. You're right in that those with disabilities will not be able to hit "average" dps with "normal" builds, but they will absolutely still be able to hit average dps (even above average dps in an organized group) with an Oaken HA build, even post nerf. I've demonstrated that with the math.

As for my previous post - the average player (without disabilities) is absolutely able to hit above average dps with an Oaken HA build on live - that's the issue. It has too much going for it for those average players.

"But I'm not hitting those numbers, and I'm an average player without disability!" This means you probably just need practice (not you specifically, just anyone using this statement). It's absolutely possible (even easy) to hit the max amount of dps on this build with practice. The skill ceiling of an Oaken HA build is low enough to reach for anyone, disability or not. Take me - I'm a PvP player through and through, and Oaken HA builds have given me an easy way to do any PvE content in the game. They will still do that just as effectively next patch, for me, for the "average" player, and for any players with disability.

[Edited quote]