Thoughts of a Random Guy on Necrom Changes to HA / Heavy-Attack builds & on Arcanist

mocap

Players argue that someone in PvE does more damage than he deserves. The world has gone crazy.

MasterSpatula

HA builds being precisely where they were in comparison to 2-bar builds was an unambiguous good thing, so of course they were going to nerf it.

Nerfing one of the best ways to actually build a viable Lightning DPS also feels just downright petty, though admittedly not as petty as looking at disabled and weaving-averse players finally enjoying endgame and going, "You know what? Naw."

CameraBeardThePirate

loveeso wrote: »

I agree with most of what has been written in the above comments apart from the following (these suggest replying without reading what the OP wrote ) 👇

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Or.... you could save money and spend that time farming skill points. I never have to use the armorer because i have enough skill points for a PvP build + a PvE build without having to respec.

And spending the time to farm skill points is an investment, saving you countless hours and gold in the future.

It doesn’t have much to do with skill points. Also, what if your LA & HA builds require different morphs of the same skill?
And what about Champion Points? It is okay for me to switch because I am high CP, but people with lower CP will have to pay for a respec every time they switch between LA and HA.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Saying 75k+ dps isn't enough to be welcome in most groups is disingenuous

It isn’t disingenuous though, is it? That’s how it is and everyone who leads trials or just does many trials a week knows it’s the truth so why deny it? Theorising is all fine but it doesn’t make sense when it contradicts reality.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

People are overreacting to the HA changes.
… its already been demonstrated that you can still hit 90k+ dps on PTS with an Oakensoul HA setup.

Show the 90k DPS build on PTS and the CMX log. I havent found any.

Even 70k dps is plenty though.

also

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

… still keeps Oakensoul HA builds at 77k - more than enough

also

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Saying 75k+ dps isn't enough to be welcome in most groups is disingenuous

So far, you have managed to move from 90k+ to 77k to 75k to 70k each time saying such a nerf is not much. Please stop moving the goal posts to suit your narrative . In another comment you also stated that HA builds can do 110k+ on a trial dummy on the live server - come on 😆

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

… and a slight nerf to Storm Master's (which isn't even the best set in an optimized group)

But Storm Master IS the best set in optimised groups. The current meta for HA is 1pc Slime, Storm Master, Sergeant, Oakensoul. There is absolutely no doubt about it. Here you go, an example: https://www.esologs.com/reports/c6pRrqwC1VAWYnDK#fight=17&type=damage-done
I played with many people using different HA builds, I tested many builds myself (duelist, undaunted, infallible, you name it, all of them) both on a trial dummy and in real content, including DLC trial HMs - SM is BIS & everyone knows it.

TL;DR
There is no need to guess by how much these two nerfs will decrease the meta HA DPS (e.g. depending on when the Empower buff and the SM buff are in the damage calculation chain) because instead of guessing I went to the PTS server to test it and get the actual numbers. After doing that, I provided these REAL numbers (not guesses about “how they should be”) in my original post. Combined, 12.5% nerf to Empower and 60% nerf to the SM duration result in 15% to 20% DPS nerf. If you think 15-20% nerf is negligible, then we might just as well claim that having 5-pc bonuses of Depths, Pillar, Coral, and Rele sets nerfed to 0 and that would be okay too. But we all know that it is not true because no one would wear them anymore. 15-20% DPS nerf is huge.

It is okay to dislike HA builds for whatever reason but please do not reply if you do not read what others wrote first and please do not spread disinformation. Please

https://eso-u.com/articles/most_powerful_oakensorc_heavy_attack_build

This Live build has a HA build at over 101k dps. Deltia has one above that. So wow, I was off by about 8k dps. That's still an egregious amount of DPS, and way more than you need.

The nerf isn't a lot, and i can guarantee you will still see 90k HA build parses once the meta settles in.

As for the varying numbers, I was trying to portray best case scenario vs worst case scenario. With a 10% nerf to Empower, and a nerf to Storm Master (a set that will likely be replaced in meta HA builds next patch) you arent going to drop anymore than 30% dps. Even that 30% dps is a generous estimate - I'd be shocked if HA builds fall much more than 15% when the meta settles.

If you're only finding people turning you away for being at 70k DPS, you're either not looking for a group/guild hard enough or you need to consider making your own group/guild.

I was not ignoring any part of the post; the point is that people are acting like the sky is falling when all that happened was HA builds got a slight tweak.

Kirawolfe

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So, it's disappointing to see ZOS deliver such a massive nerf to HA builds and HA sorcs in particular.

"We want to make the game more accessible and make light attack weaving less of a thing!"
*tons of folks use HA builds, creators make fun videos of swarming end game content with HA builds, folks who can't light attack weave find a way to enjoy the game and get into end game content while not feeling like a carry*

"... but not that accessible!" *nerf bat*

Honestly, how do you all handle the constant changes? This is dizzying.

What was wrong with HA sorc builds? Some folks seemed to be angry about other people holding down the mouse button through a fight? There was so much hate about the build, when it made the game awesome and more accessible for so many.

I don't get this. It feels like any time a creator pushes the boundaries of what can be done with a class/build/gear set/whatever, this company slams down the nerf bat, causing the rest of us to scramble to hold on to a fraction of the ground we gained after the last change.

loveeso

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

https://eso-u.com/articles/most_powerful_oakensorc_heavy_attack_build

This Live build has a HA build at over 101k dps. Deltia has one above that. So wow, I was off by about 8k dps. That's still an egregious amount of DPS, and way more than you need.

Everyone who knows what they are talking about, knows about 101k+ parses. You wrote 110k+. And everyone knows about 130k+ parses on two-bar builds. Instead of deflecting, just admit you were wrong and let’s move on.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

With a 10% nerf to Empower,

It is a 12.5% nerf to Empower. If you make a lot of numerical mistakes like this (and the 101+ vs 110 above), these errors
stack and the conclusions you draw from them are of very dubious value.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If you're only finding people turning you away for being at 70k DPS, you're either not looking for a group/guild hard enough or you need to consider making your own group/guild.

This again proves that, as I wrote earlier, you haven’t read what I wrote (or chose to ignore it because it doesn’t suit your narrative). I do 120k+, I don’t have any problems with anyone turning me away. I also lead DLC HM raids. I tank. One of my guilds does HM trials for everyone, without any requirements. All this is irrelevant though because the reality is that the majority of people who can only do 70k will be turned away by most groups - they will be accepted only some of the time. Everyone who raids a lot has seen that and knows that.

Auldwulfe

What I am finding to be hilarious is that the same exact names that had almost total meltdowns, and threatened to quit, with the U35 nerf to light attacks, are now crowing about other people being nerfed......

There are other ways to do this.... and get right back to about the same damage....and there are ways to do it with an equally slow rotation.... it can be done. But, what this does do is create a negative net promoter score for the game... a business term that ZOS might want to research. It's already out in the dozen or so discord channels I am part of, that don't relate to this game... people are already talking about how the game has been nerfed to get rid of players with disability..... and trust me, it's loud......

The numbers of people who are saying "glad I don't waste money on that "*** matter" show of a game" is on the rise.... but I am sure that the people happy for any nerf will also be equally excited to buy crates to keep the game going......

And, no, I am not saying this nerf is going to destroy the game..... but it is creating a LOT of negative comments in places where people are allowed to talk about how they really feel without snips, or edits.

Every person that has not, yet, played the game, but decides not to bother, due to those comments is a loss that can't be regained...
When you add the other problems... lack of a good tutorial, lack of any real progress..... terrible reward structure... over monetization... it's just one more negative on a pile of negatives with the game.

A lot of people play for fun... and if they feel that the fun was taken away... they WILL take their wallets away......
Any nerf should have a clear reason... not be the result of a small group of people whining, which this appears to be. And, NO ONE should be happy about any nerf.... I'd be unhappy if they put light attacks on the GCD... and it is a possibility.... ZOS could, at any time, decide that the animation cancelling exploit is an issue, and nerf that....... U35 already showed that nothing is sacred.

I'd keep that in mind, because I can easily see a Dev note stating "Relequen has been used in too many builds, and to promote build diversity, we removed it from the game, or nerfed it to need a proc, to give it 1 second of ability, with a 30 second cooldown, etc.

I am sure if Pillars of Nirn got a huge nerf, people would not be happy.....
It would be best to commiserate with those that are now getting a nerf slap to the head, and work with them to come up with another build.... gloating is just one more reason for them to leave the financial overhead of this game on your shoulders. And unless you want to pay more and more just to keep what you have..... I'd avoid giving people a reason to walk away.

Auldwulfe

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

And yeah, let's say they reduced those sets you mentioned to zero. Depths, Pillar, Coral, and Rele. You know what would happen? I do. Players would hop onto PTS and put on a different set and guage their new DPS numbers with that new set in comparison to their old setup. They wouldn't get on PTS and put on the same thing and complain the DPS is too low. Other sets still work and other sets were already fairly close in live to the SM/Serg setup. Just like other setups are close enough to those proc sets you called out.

There are already much fewer sets for heavy attack builds than others. In addition, people do, in fact, complain when a build is over nerfed all the time. How many complaints do we still hear about old mythic items that have been nerfed to similar levels and must be abandoned? The overbuffing and then overnerfing of builds is one of the most complained about aspects of this games' balance period.

It has sent droves of people out of content and in some cases out of game.

CameraBeardThePirate

loveeso wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

https://eso-u.com/articles/most_powerful_oakensorc_heavy_attack_build

This Live build has a HA build at over 101k dps. Deltia has one above that. So wow, I was off by about 8k dps. That's still an egregious amount of DPS, and way more than you need.

Everyone who knows what they are talking about, knows about 101k+ parses. You wrote 110k+. And everyone knows about 130k+ parses on two-bar builds. Instead of deflecting, just admit you were wrong and let’s move on.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

With a 10% nerf to Empower,

It is a 12.5% nerf to Empower. If you make a lot of numerical mistakes like this (and the 101+ vs 110 above), these errors
stack and the conclusions you draw from them are of very dubious value.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If you're only finding people turning you away for being at 70k DPS, you're either not looking for a group/guild hard enough or you need to consider making your own group/guild.

This again proves that, as I wrote earlier, you haven’t read what I wrote (or chose to ignore it because it doesn’t suit your narrative). I do 120k+, I don’t have any problems with anyone turning me away. I also lead DLC HM raids. I tank. One of my guilds does HM trials for everyone, without any requirements. All this is irrelevant though because the reality is that the majority of people who can only do 70k will be turned away by most groups - they will be accepted only some of the time. Everyone who raids a lot has seen that and knows that.

Not really sure how I was "deflecting". You asked for proof of a 110k dps build, i found one with a bit less damage than that. I did say i was wrong in the very quote you added to your comment.

They nerfed the bonus HA damage Empower gives by 10%. It is a 12.5% nerf to the Empower modifier damage overall. Those are two different ways of saying the same thing. You're trying to bait by being overly granular.

My use of the pronoun "You" in your quoted text was in the general sense. As in, "If players are getting turned away for having 70k dps..." Don't take things so personally. I have no sort of "narrative" or agenda I'm trying to push, I'm simply trying to point out the fallacies in saying that Oakensoul HA builds have been gutted when all evidence points to the contrary.

BlueRaven

Remember a year or two ago when it was all about “raising the floor and lowering the ceiling”.

Well that “philosophy” sure did not last long.

AcadianPaladin

Nerfing empower = lowering the floor.

BaalMelqartu

I use Oakensoul heavy attack builds on 4 of my characters and although I'm not a fan of the Storm Master nerf, I don't quite get what all the fuss is about. Yes empower got a small nerf, not big enough to ruin heavy attack builds. Yes, Storm Master got a big nerf, just switch to Noble Duelist and make sure you dip in close enough to the big bads once every 15 seconds to keep the proc up. Alternatively, test out other sets to see if you can find any nice DPS surprises when paired with Sergeants.
-Do I love the changes? No. It won't stop me from being able to adequately contribute to my group though if I keep my heavy attack builds.
It surprises me that people aren't GRATEFUL they didn't touch lightning staves or Sergeants. Everything seems to get nerfed somewhat eventually, including our builds. As long as they don't KEEP hacking away at the build, we're fine.

ZOS_Kraken

Hello!

Please remember to keep the conversation constructive. It is ok to have a difference of opinion, but please be remain respectful of other people's opinions even if you disagree.

Zos_Kraken

Trejgon

[quote="CameraBeardThePirate;c-7852410"

They nerfed the bonus HA damage Empower gives by 10%. It is a 12.5% nerf to the Empower modifier damage overall. Those are two different ways of saying the same thing. You're trying to bait by being overly granular.
[/quote]

The nitpick they were going for in there is that it is not 10% drop in bonus, but 10 percent points. Which for 80->70 drop translates into 12.5% nerf of a bonus. Which I do not care to math out how much total % of a dps drop will end up being.

[snip] In my understanding for ZOS general standard of nerfing things, this PTS patch is extremely tame nerf. History of last couple years of balancing shows much biger sledgehammer approach on things. And yet some people go out as if the builds were flat out deleted from viability.

[edited for minor baiting]

Cadbury

Remember, this is the first week of PTS. Things can change or be reverted.

Galeriano

loveeso wrote: »

In another comment you also stated that HA builds can do 110k+ on a trial dummy on the live server - come on 😆

@loveeso quite frankly they can. Just not as one bar setups. BRP dual wield on back bar allows to push DPS in the 110k area on a lightning staff heavy attack setup.

TL;DR
There is no need to guess by how much these two nerfs will decrease the meta HA DPS (e.g. depending on when the Empower buff and the SM buff are in the damage calculation chain) because instead of guessing I went to the PTS server to test it and get the actual numbers. After doing that, I provided these REAL numbers (not guesses about “how they should be”) in my original post. Combined, 12.5% nerf to Empower and 60% nerf to the SM duration result in 15% to 20% DPS nerf. If you think 15-20% nerf is negligible, then we might just as well claim that having 5-pc bonuses of Depths, Pillar, Coral, and Rele sets nerfed to 0 and that would be okay too. But we all know that it is not true because no one would wear them anymore. 15-20% DPS nerf is huge.

Have You made sure Your had no bugged passives? Some of the passives on PTS are bugged right now and they may cause DPS loss.

Hapexamendios

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

CameraBeardThePirate

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 6% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

AScarlato

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

CameraBeardThePirate

AScarlato wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

Here's a secret: MMO's are designed to get you to grind so that you continue playing the game.

AScarlato

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

Here's a secret: MMO's are designed to get you to grind so that you continue playing the game.

Yes and at some point people are going to hop off that pointless hamster wheel and bring their wallets with them. Why are you supporting what you are calling a change of no consequence but one that requires people to farm and improve sets for according to you, no change from the status quo. Explain why you support this and how it makes any sense whatsoever for again, no change according to you but lots of sunk time and resources to others.

isadoraisacat

Unfortunately the nerfs I see are really going to effect my enjoyment of this game going forward. I have severe hand issues and I am going to eventually get surgery (I also need a hip replacement due to other injury). It’s very sad they will nerf something that has allowed me to reach a decent dps I’m near 30k dps now as opposed to the 15 k I was getting before.

It is physically painful for me to do repetitive motions and I can not enjoy the game weaving it’s very painful for me to do and on top of it I don’t find it fun even after surgery if I can get some stamina back into my hands

It feels like zos is alienating the disabled and solo players who use a heavy attack set up to enjoy the game and get through some areas with friends without issues and actually hold their own.

It feels like they want to force us to weave a mechanic that was a bug that should have been patched from the get go.

I don’t want to see them change anything now for those who like it but they shouldn’t have done this it affects so many players with various issues this helped make the experience more enjoyable.

I hope zos will reconsider and think of the other end of their paying customers, and find another way to balance it where it makes more sense.

BaalMelqartu

AScarlato wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

Nerfs requiring me to abandon a set and get something better has been the absolute norm for me since I started this game in 2021. Or rather, I guess they don't REQUIRE me to abandon sets. I choose to do so because staying with the set would net me worse results than changing. I may not LIKE skills and sets changing frequently but my understanding is that this is how MMOs work in their ongoing quest for "balance".
Fortunately in this instance, one can just get the base dungeon set Noble Duelist, swap out the Storm Master and then profit. This Heavy Attack nerf is the smallest nerf I have ever seen in ESO.

isadoraisacat

loveeso wrote: »

Although my annual subscription has just been automatically renewed, after reviewing the recent patch notes and testing things on the PTS, I have come to the conclusion that it's time for me to move on and explore new options. While I appreciate the time I've spent with this game, I've decided that this will be my last payment and that I will not be purchasing the new expansion. I wanted to share these thoughts in case they're of interest to anyone.


Arcanist

I was initially excited about the Arcanist class after seeing it in official videos, but after trying it out myself, I can't help but feel disappointed. While I understand that aesthetics are subjective, in my personal opinion, the Arcanist looks kitschy compared to the other classes. The animations also feel clunky and lack inspiration, which makes it hard for me to fully enjoy playing it. Of course, everyone's experience may vary, so if you've tried it and found it enjoyable, I'm happy for you.


Heavy-Attack / HA builds

Even though I could do 120k (I know that there are people who do more, not bragging, there is nothing to brag about, just providing context), I loved the positive changes that ZOS introduced when they made HA viable again.
The improvements rekindled interest in the game among many players, and it felt like there were more ESO enthusiasts ready to take on HM trials and dungeons. Our guild became more active and grew, which was fantastic to see. The changes also allowed for more variety in playstyle, providing two viable setups instead of everyone using the same one. This was a refreshing change that fit sorcerers well and looked impressive visually and in terms of RPG elements. I felt that ZOS had finally materialized their 'Play The Way You Want' philosophy, which is something so many of us were excited about.

I embraced the new HA playstyle and went ahead to get the gear and set up my HA builds (incl. some two-bar HA builds that offer more DPS while maintaining all the main benefits to Oakensoul builds). Now, when I want to push myself, I can bring my two-bar meta and do 30% to 50% more damage (depending on my setup). But when I want to relax and enjoy the game, I can switch to my HA toon and still be of help to my team.
In addition, I've had the pleasure of meeting many players with disabilities who were grateful that ZOS has made the game more inclusive. These players are not inferior to those of us who can achieve 130k+ DPS. In fact, many of them excel in areas such as situational awareness, reflexes, strategic and tactical thinking, and mechanics. However, some of them are held back by the enforced LA-weaving paradigm, which can be challenging for players with disabilities. The LA meta is also considered by some to be an exploit rather than a feature, producing unRPG-like jerky movements that can break a player's immersion in the game.
Personally, I don't have any disabilities (yet), but I do believe that treating disabled players as second-class citizens is inappropriate. Here is a comment that I just saw which says it quite well:

“… as a disabled veteran who can finally do endgame content i have to say this sets a bad precedent. their statement to me sounds like them saying they don't want me to be able to do as well as the nondisabled players. I already have to work around my disability, having to work around a system designed by people who don't want me to succeed just doesn't sound very fun to me, and nerfs like this are often followed by further nerfs“

I've noticed that many skilled players in the game have also welcomed the positive changes to HA builds. The decision to make these builds viable while still maintaining a 30-50% DPS difference (depending on the build) was a brilliant move by ZOS. It brought new life into the game and increased the number of ESO players interested in running HM trials and dungeons. Our guilds became more active, and we finally had some build diversity instead of everyone using the same setup. HA builds looked visually stunning and fit sorcerers well, allowing them to perform well in HM trials and dungeons (even without pets ).
However, I'm disappointed to see that ZOS is trying to undo all the good they've done in the last few months. It's unclear why they are doing this.

Is it because some influencers who sell carry runs pretended to like HA builds (which threatened to obliterate their in-game business) and baited mid-tier two-bar players into raging about it and demanding the nerf?

Is it because of PvP? Same as in PvE, where the best HA build has no chance to beat the best LA build which will do at least 30% more damage, the best PvP players just obliterate the best HA players. Only the low- to mid-tier players will complain (and only those of them who like complaining or have an unhealthy relationship with the game and forget that it is just a game).

Instead of constantly causing problems for the PvE community by attempting to "balance" PvP, ZOS could take a simple approach. They could download GW2 and replicate how structured PvP (sPvP) is handled in that game. In sPvP, every level-1 character receives maximum level, all skills, and a broad range of standardized gear - all for free. No other gear can be used, but players can still customize their setups and easily switch builds with just one click between fights. This would solve the problem once and for all.

Based on my tests on the PTS, I found that the recent nerfs to Storm Master and Empower have a significant impact on DPS in real content. The duration of Storm Master has been reduced from 20 seconds to 8 seconds, and Empower has been nerfed by 12.5% (from 80% to 70%). As a result, there is a 15-20% decrease in DPS on average. Even on a trial dummy, the DPS loss is around 10-15%.
Furthermore, both Storm Master and Infallible Mage no longer work in PvP. On the dummy, you can only achieve around 86% uptime of Storm Master, and in real content, it's much worse.

I had hope, but I am truly disappointed by the recent reversal of positive changes in the game over the last few months. A couple of base-game dungeon sets, such as Storm Master, finally had some use, but now they have been nerfed. We had finally found an alternative playstyle that, while weaker, was still viable, and it encouraged more players to become active and participate in trials and hard modes using HA builds. This made the game more inclusive towards people with disabilities. But now, these changes are being reversed, and it's a really sad situation.

I completely agree I’m extremely disappointed in Zos

AScarlato

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

Nerfs requiring me to abandon a set and get something better has been the absolute norm for me since I started this game in 2021. Or rather, I guess they don't REQUIRE me to abandon sets. I choose to do so because staying with the set would net me worse results than changing. I may not LIKE skills and sets changing frequently but my understanding is that this is how MMOs work in their ongoing quest for "balance".
Fortunately in this instance, one can just get the base dungeon set Noble Duelist, swap out the Storm Master and then profit. This Heavy Attack nerf is the smallest nerf I have ever seen in ESO.

This set doesn’t work at all in BGs. That’s just turning off the 5 piece bonus entirely. You have to change the set.

BaalMelqartu

AScarlato wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

Nerfs requiring me to abandon a set and get something better has been the absolute norm for me since I started this game in 2021. Or rather, I guess they don't REQUIRE me to abandon sets. I choose to do so because staying with the set would net me worse results than changing. I may not LIKE skills and sets changing frequently but my understanding is that this is how MMOs work in their ongoing quest for "balance".
Fortunately in this instance, one can just get the base dungeon set Noble Duelist, swap out the Storm Master and then profit. This Heavy Attack nerf is the smallest nerf I have ever seen in ESO.

This set doesn’t work at all in BGs. That’s just turning off the 5 piece bonus entirely. You have to change the set.

Fair enough. I have nothing to do with PVP but I see your point. Noble Duelist cannot proc against players just like Storm Master won't be able to. I guess this is a bigger nerf than I thought it was if you're using the build in PVP.

Hapexamendios

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 6% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

You don't seem to understand. There is no justification for the nerfs at all as far as I'm concerned. The percentages you list are irrelevant to me.

BaalMelqartu

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 6% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

You don't seem to understand. There is no justification for the nerfs at all as far as I'm concerned. The percentages you list are irrelevant to me.

I get that you do not want or like the change but claiming "no justification" to the changes when SO many players demanded changes does not make sense. I don't agree with the people wanting it all nerfed but I can't just pretend they don't exist. Refusing to compromise at all has never been a helpful strategy.

AScarlato

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 6% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

You don't seem to understand. There is no justification for the nerfs at all as far as I'm concerned. The percentages you list are irrelevant to me.

I get that you do not want or like the change but claiming "no justification" to the changes when SO many players demanded changes does not make sense. I don't agree with the people wanting it all nerfed but I can't just pretend they don't exist. Refusing to compromise at all has never been a helpful strategy.

Why were they demanding changes? An ego thing? This is already worse than those playing harder 2 bar builds. I guess disabled players, players with repetitive hand injuries, or others who don’t like or can’t keep up with constant clicking shouldn’t get to feel like meaningful contributors and stick to their face roll content?

For PvE cooperative content what was the harm exactly?

Stanelis

Just a post to state that I fully support the OP in his post. I've been playing TESO several ago and stopped the game due to the need to weave light attacks, it simply wasn't an enjoyable gameplay to me. It's not immersive at all.

When I got back like one month ago I was pleasently surprised by the existence of the 1 bar HA build that made me pick the game again. Seeing that the most enjoyable build to me will be nerfed isn't a good message at all.

isadoraisacat

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

As a middling level player, I don't feel there is any justification for the nerfs whatsoever ever. I am just to the point where I feel I'm making a good enough contribution to my groups to clear vet DLC dungeons. I'm not hitting anything spectacular that anyone should be concerned with. Leave it alone.

You'll still be doing almost the same damage. Empower going from 80% to 70% only nerfs Heavy Attacks by about 4% (you can look at the math in my post in the PTS section). Storm Master's nerf is inconsequential as you can swap to Noble Duelists and get comparable dps.

A nerf requiring you abandon the set and farm a new one is not inconsequential.

Here's a secret: MMO's are designed to get you to grind so that you continue playing the game.

Yes and at some point people are going to hop off that pointless hamster wheel and bring their wallets with them. Why are you supporting what you are calling a change of no consequence but one that requires people to farm and improve sets for according to you, no change from the status quo. Explain why you support this and how it makes any sense whatsoever for again, no change according to you but lots of sunk time and resources to others.

Stanelis wrote: »

Just a post to state that I fully support the OP in his post. I've been playing TESO several ago and stopped the game due to the need to weave light attacks, it simply wasn't an enjoyable gameplay to me. It's not immersive at all.

When I got back like one month ago I was pleasently surprised by the existence of the 1 bar HA build that made me pick the game again. Seeing that the most enjoyable build to me will be nerfed isn't a good message at all.

I hope zos is reading all this and hopefully will reconsider they are making a massive mistake and will drive many players away.

It just feels like they only care about the “elite” players and screw those of us with disabilities