Please remove either invisbility or change nightblades

Turtle_Bot

AndreNoir wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

its a nightblade. stealth is its sorta its thematic archtype. No. Learn how to detect stealth better. there are potions, champion points and skills to counter stealth. Go slot in magelight

Sorc's archetype is mobility but streak still have a drawback.

Drawback of unblockable AoE stun with a damage on top of that ? Poor....

draw back of heavy ramping cost + for a skill that is relied on for defense (due to no other good options) that 50% of the time just doesn't work (especially after the server upgrades that brought back a lot of old bugs with the skill). [Snip]

Definitely way stronger than a skill that grants on demand LoS in the open in the middle of a massive group of enemies, has no ramping cost, grants 100% mitigation against any projectile and single target direct damage attacks on cast and guarantees a critical attack on your next hit that also requires dedicated counters that don't do anything against other classes..... [Snip]

[Edited for minor bait]

katanagirl1

You guys still don’t get it. NBs aren’t the problem, I rarely die to them unless it’s that auto-target bow ultimate . Invisibility potions are the problem, and any class can use them.

NBs cloak lasts less than 3 seconds. You aren’t dying to that I guarantee. It’s a means of escape.

Amethyst_Unearthed

UMM... you know anyone can go invisible? if you put gold alchemy enchantments on your jewelry you can get up to ALMOST 40 seconds of invisibility and only about 15 or so seconds needed for cool down.... JS

Turtle_Bot

katanagirl1 wrote: »

You guys still don’t get it. NBs aren’t the problem, I rarely die to them unless it’s that auto-target bow ultimate . Invisibility potions are the problem, and any class can use them.

NBs cloak lasts less than 3 seconds. You aren’t dying to that I guarantee. It’s a means of escape.

The difference between potions and cloak, if potions get broken, they cannot be used again for a decent duration (up to 45 seconds), cloak can be used again instantly in most cases since it has no cooldown.

finehair

Spam aoe towards their general direction and see how they panic and try to cloak away eating their resources until they die

Shagreth

Revamping old classes is long overdue, Arcanist plays and feels a lot different (in a good way) and it puts everything else in shame. Still, I don't see them ever removing invisibility, there are ways to counter that anyway.

Ilumia

Fine to disagree, even strongly, but personally I like the people trying to teach how to deal with the posters problem and improve so it's no longer such an issue

sharquez

We need a sticky post at the top that says, No we are not removing Invis, No we are not makign PVE IC or Cyrodill. Stop asking.

Vulkunne

Heals_With_Orbs wrote: »

As stated, either remove invisibility from ESO or change nightblades so they don't just wipe people in PVP

This is PVP isn't it? or is it PVI? - Player vs Invisible? We aren't playing aliens vs predator are we?

I just don't understand why we have to constantly look over our shoulders, use spells like magelight that have a poor range or constantly guzzle expensive potions just because there's one player who's going to wipe 4 people at once inside a keep, or suddenly appear at a resource, etc etc etc.

This isnt what PVP should be about, it should be about P L A Y E R vs P L A Y E R - not fighting Arnies predator who has an unfair advantage

Sorry nightblade fans, but I think this class, although cool, is too overpowered

No doubt there will be a bunch of guys who say "leave ma' nightblade alone bro' - but I'm not interested in listening to that, don't even bother replying

Unless anyone has any better suggestions, something needs to be changed at least

Its bad enough trying to tackle these irritating wardens with stuns on heal, mara's balm cheese builds, tower huggers and players who seem to read a magazine while 20 people cant kill them

First of all I remember playing AvP 2 (the original) and it was awesome so I'm not sure whats wrong with that kind of gameplay. There is certainly room in ESO lore for this as well.

Secondly, I think its great to have that extra layer of tension in PvP where you have to look over your shoulder. Its good because it helps bring people into the game, into the situation and keeps players interested. I remember playing CoD and Half Life multiplayer which is just nailing people to walls and such, it gets old because generally speaking there's no time to react to anything. Its too predictable and gets stale.

Your example about wiping 4 people at once inside a keep, doesn't mean anything at all to most NBs. To be honest, generally you can expect something like that from a Sorc or DK. Not a NB. Then you talk about what PvP is about, this is what its about. Sometimes again, its better to have challenges out there that are unique and force you to think about the situation. Its bad in a game or even in writing where everything is too obvious.

Another thing, the NB class has already been nerfed substantially over time. Other passives that once belonged to NBs are either in certain races or certain sets, never to be used or seen again lol unless you play accordingly. Invisibility is like one of the last great things left about the class, which has been nerfed in at least two ways. One, the duration was reduced by changing one of the passives and two, the other morph no longer grants invisibility making the NB more like a DK kind of.

I see other things towards the end of your post that frustrate you and I get that as there are a couple things that irritate me as well. However, I would offer the fact that there are things about PvP that challenge us, things we cannot accomplish even, is really a good thing about the game because that challenge exists.

Vulkunne

ProudMary wrote: »

NB invisibility should have duration of 50% or less than what it is now, or have steeply increasing cost for every use after first within a minute. Also, NB's shouldn't be able to cloak within 3 seconds of initiating a fight.

NB invisibility has always been unfair in PvP, especially when combined with such a strong toolbox of other skills, like soul tether.

No it should not. The duration has already been nerfed.

NB cloak is very expensive to use and would not be worth it at 50%. Either have the cloak or don't have it. Nerfing it further makes it no longer relevant because due to lag as well as how far the player can travel, the cloak needs time to be effective.

And its barely effective at 3 seconds.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Vulkunne

axi wrote: »

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Remove invis is a bit much, however I think detect pot should be buffed

I really don't think that the best way to deal with a fact that certain ability have a tendency to overperform is to throw some semi counters into the game.

Strong abilities should have drawbacks built into them same as streak or dodge has or old mist had. People claim there is plenty of counters to cloak but the thing is each of these counters can be countered by nb without any additional investments just by using things naturally present in their kit. On the other hand to use cloak counters player needs to sacrifice something. Detect pot means player wont use more desired potion for 45 seconds meaning loss of alteast one usefull buff which may be crucial to the fight. Detection abilities means loss of skill slot for some other abilities more usefull in other scenarios plus cost vs duration ratio is not the best.

Some time ago there was atleast natural drawback for nb that was being more squishy in more open fights due to lack of strong burst healing but right now that only drawback is gone. Nb base survival without cloak is as strong or even stronger than on other classes, his dmg is one of the best currently so there is really no excuse to keep cloak the way it is.

NBs are not strong lol. You may have seen a NB in a group doing things but I solo a NB frequently and we that use invisibility do NOT have a burst heal similar to a DK or Templar.

Yes ball groups run a NB for their AOE abilities but a NB on its own with invis is very vulnerable. I PvP frequently and many times my NB gets pulled out of cloak or they can see thru the cloak and its a constant struggle to survive. See AD on Blackreach for further details. They know.

Vulkunne

Zyva wrote: »

Nightblades, and stealth, are very core concepts to pvping in cyro or IC. And countering them is simple experience and learning the game.

First you go in prepared for pvp. Have a good health resource pool. Stealth attackers will always go for the lower health target when possible. Wear Impen. And dont stack with other players, as there are many sets that bombers take advantage of where the person with low health next to you dies and you get some of that damage... times it by as many people who die and it can be a huge explosion.

Block on resources while waiting for them to flip. Dont sprint to the wayshrine right after a take. There is something hilarious about watching your own faction explode for making these simple mistakes.

There are even more ways to prevent nightblade assassinations. These are just a few. And its easy and costs very little. Just experience. Which is a very nice thing, because you get a feeling of being an actual 'veteran' to the war in cyro when you stop getting ganked and successfully avoid common mistakes that new pvp players make.

Absolutely. I also think NBs are poorly understood.

My suggestion is for anyone who gets frustrated with NBs, try playing one and you will start to see that it takes alot of work to make a good NB and even considerably more skill to be successful with it, especially against groups. Thats why I didn't understand the example the other guy gave about NBs wiping 4 ppl in a keep lol. With guards shooting at you and DK and Sorc looking for you its usually all you can do just to stay hidden.

PhoenixGrey

NB’s are the best class in the game and always will be.

DK’s are just a flickering OP class in the ZOS timeline soon to fade away.

Few understand this….

Soraka

Some NB skills seem very strong right now, but having gone through several bomber metas, I don't see them near as much any more. There was a time when every spot had a couple bombers. So I kinda just assume there's always one around even when there isn't. Also if you're looking around you can often see them "arm" the bomb (a danger aoe zone will briefly show with no one in it) and scoot away and block and watch everyone you were standing with die (or heal them). If you assume there's one around and don't stand in a tempting spot, you're less likely to get hit.

As for gankers, I don't think invisibility is the problem as maintaining it is harder than it looks. At least it was for me when I played around on a NB alt. Getting assassinated does hurt, but I don't think it's impossible to survive it.
Sometimes I play with magelight and enjoy messing up someone's surprise moment, but usually I don't bother with it.

boi_anachronism_

I hate gankblades, I do but to say let's just remove an intrinsic part of a class is pretty off the wall. They are an assassin class. They can't take out most tanky builds that know how to counter anyway. I won't sit here for one second an say gut blades because they gave me a booboo. It's pvp- yah gonna die. I'm not gonna say "git gud" but what I will say is that experience will teach you how to counter all classes. An inexperienced blade gets crushed by a marginally decent dk.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Zastrix

When I played PvP a few months ago I played as a brawlblade (no invisibility whatsoever) and I easily killed invisible nightblades...

Just slot in a reveal skill and fix the... well.. skill issue by learning how to PvP.

PhoenixGrey

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

NB’s are the best class in the game and always will be.

Like the pts says.

I anticipate a few more buffs. Arcanist is stronger than nb and that breaks the game right now. The solution definitely lies in more nb buffs which will be towards end of pts cycle

Elrender

ESO is the only MMO where rogue can restealth as much times as he wants. Good mmos has thing called CD on such skills. Eso dont.

Four_Fingers

Everyone can stealth as much as they want, just crouch.
I don't even slot shadowy disguise on my brawler blade.

Baconlad

The best NBs I have played against would top my list as the most OP class in the game...here's the secret though. Stealth isn't what makes them strong.

90% of nightblades run stealth because they envision a predator. Wrecking from shadows in a short burst. But they die to a fart in the wind. learn to bring em out of stealth and they die.

The other 10%? They are unicorns. Bravely playing like stamsorc but twice as tanky with the same damage. They are CANCEROUS. They dont use stealth. They are better than any DK ive ever come across. The NB toolkit is capable of the strongest toon you can build in dueling or 1vX...you just never see them, cause most people that play NB do it for stealth.

PhoenixGrey

Baconlad wrote: »

The best NBs I have played against would top my list as the most OP class in the game...here's the secret though. Stealth isn't what makes them strong.

90% of nightblades run stealth because they envision a predator. Wrecking from shadows in a short burst. But they die to a fart in the wind. learn to bring em out of stealth and they die.

The other 10%? They are unicorns. Bravely playing like stamsorc but twice as tanky with the same damage. They are CANCEROUS. They dont use stealth. They are better than any DK ive ever come across. The NB toolkit is capable of the strongest toon you can build in dueling or 1vX...you just never see them, cause most people that play NB do it for stealth.

I would go as far as saying most nb mains don’t know the ceiling of their class. The best nb mains I knew of were and are basically unkillable in open world pvp.

Nb in its current state is much stronger than dk’s. It is the only class in the game which does not have any outright weakness

PhoenixGrey

Vulkunne wrote: »

Zyva wrote: »

Nightblades, and stealth, are very core concepts to pvping in cyro or IC. And countering them is simple experience and learning the game.

First you go in prepared for pvp. Have a good health resource pool. Stealth attackers will always go for the lower health target when possible. Wear Impen. And dont stack with other players, as there are many sets that bombers take advantage of where the person with low health next to you dies and you get some of that damage... times it by as many people who die and it can be a huge explosion.

Block on resources while waiting for them to flip. Dont sprint to the wayshrine right after a take. There is something hilarious about watching your own faction explode for making these simple mistakes.

There are even more ways to prevent nightblade assassinations. These are just a few. And its easy and costs very little. Just experience. Which is a very nice thing, because you get a feeling of being an actual 'veteran' to the war in cyro when you stop getting ganked and successfully avoid common mistakes that new pvp players make.

Absolutely. I also think NBs are poorly understood.

My suggestion is for anyone who gets frustrated with NBs, try playing one and you will start to see that it takes alot of work to make a good NB and even considerably more skill to be successful with it, especially against groups. Thats why I didn't understand the example the other guy gave about NBs wiping 4 ppl in a keep lol. With guards shooting at you and DK and Sorc looking for you its usually all you can do just to stay hidden.

I have played one and it is the best class in the game.

I kill players accidently and I don’t die. You can 1v10 and it’s not really that hard. Just takes a little common sense and not even skill

Turtle_Bot

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

The best NBs I have played against would top my list as the most OP class in the game...here's the secret though. Stealth isn't what makes them strong.

90% of nightblades run stealth because they envision a predator. Wrecking from shadows in a short burst. But they die to a fart in the wind. learn to bring em out of stealth and they die.

The other 10%? They are unicorns. Bravely playing like stamsorc but twice as tanky with the same damage. They are CANCEROUS. They dont use stealth. They are better than any DK ive ever come across. The NB toolkit is capable of the strongest toon you can build in dueling or 1vX...you just never see them, cause most people that play NB do it for stealth.

I would go as far as saying most nb mains don’t know the ceiling of their class. The best nb mains I knew of were and are basically unkillable in open world pvp.

Nb in its current state is much stronger than dk’s. It is the only class in the game which does not have any outright weakness

There's a lot more truth to this than many want to admit. Such players that can perform at this level will make most DK look like a second rate class with what they can pull off with NB, it's crazy how high the ceiling is for it.

The main reason NB hasn't completely taken over the meta is because unlike DK that pushes 1 button to activate godmode NB takes some actual skill to play at that super high level.

I've seen a top blade main in action a lot, 30k health, plenty of damage (15k spec bow against tanks) and healing, good mitigation and practically unlimited invis/stealth (yes they were using invis not dark cloak heals). The only thing that would bring them down was if there were multiple good players joining the zerg chasing them. (They're actually a really chill player, I had some fun messing around with them with my magsorc where we just trolled each other trying to knock each other off the keep wall for a while, bow vs flamestaff ).

Four_Fingers

Love the OP DKs throwing shade at NBs.

sharquez

I love how we have all these facts and logic explaining all the reasoning and counters behind nightblades and their mechanics. when y'all could have just let this months iteration of the thread fade away.
The Elder Scrolls loves stealth so much its in their (first) card game as a core game mechanic its not going anywhere.

Neoauspex

You should be slotting flare in PvP anyway just for the passive. Problem solved.

PhoenixGrey

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

The best NBs I have played against would top my list as the most OP class in the game...here's the secret though. Stealth isn't what makes them strong.

90% of nightblades run stealth because they envision a predator. Wrecking from shadows in a short burst. But they die to a fart in the wind. learn to bring em out of stealth and they die.

The other 10%? They are unicorns. Bravely playing like stamsorc but twice as tanky with the same damage. They are CANCEROUS. They dont use stealth. They are better than any DK ive ever come across. The NB toolkit is capable of the strongest toon you can build in dueling or 1vX...you just never see them, cause most people that play NB do it for stealth.

I would go as far as saying most nb mains don’t know the ceiling of their class. The best nb mains I knew of were and are basically unkillable in open world pvp.

Nb in its current state is much stronger than dk’s. It is the only class in the game which does not have any outright weakness

There's a lot more truth to this than many want to admit. Such players that can perform at this level will make most DK look like a second rate class with what they can pull off with NB, it's crazy how high the ceiling is for it.

The main reason NB hasn't completely taken over the meta is because unlike DK that pushes 1 button to activate godmode NB takes some actual skill to play at that super high level.

I've seen a top blade main in action a lot, 30k health, plenty of damage (15k spec bow against tanks) and healing, good mitigation and practically unlimited invis/stealth (yes they were using invis not dark cloak heals). The only thing that would bring them down was if there were multiple good players joining the zerg chasing them. (They're actually a really chill player, I had some fun messing around with them with my magsorc where we just trolled each other trying to knock each other off the keep wall for a while, bow vs flamestaff ).

There used to be plenty of top blades on NA PC a few years back.

The overall gameplay standards of NB’s is lower than any other class in the game.

Most nb mains still feel their class is weak.

Zama666

I hate NB and stealth!

Most of my deaths come from it.

But I would not change a thing. There are counters! Find them, use them.

Once they are exposed they go down quickly.

I am still learning from them... and lately and rarely, killing them.

Good Luck out there!