Destruction staves are outdated.

Rkindaleft

I “get” the argument that they should do less damage because they have the ability to be played at range, however:

1) They have less base weapon/spell damage than that of melee weapons.

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

3) Their base LA damage is based on a modifier of 0.9x of that of a melee LA, so in simple terms they do 0.9 times the damage of a melee LA.

Melee weapons even on Mag users became the meta as soon as they were hybridised. Destruction Staves need a buff, at minimum they should modernise their passives to work for multiple things at once instead of just its own skill line. For Ranged builds, Bow builds are surpassing them and even currently hold the WR in vAS (Bow Stamplar.)

Mr_Jord_Joe

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I “get” the argument that they should do less damage because they have the ability to be played at range, however:

1) They have less base weapon/spell damage than that of melee weapons.

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

3) Their base LA damage is based on a modifier of 0.9x of that of a melee LA, so in simple terms they do 0.9 times the damage of a melee LA.

Melee weapons even on Mag users became the meta as soon as they were hybridised. Destruction Staves need a buff, at minimum they should modernise their passives to work for multiple things at once instead of just its own skill line. For Ranged builds, Bow builds are surpassing them and even currently hold the WR in vAS (Bow Stamplar.)

And, i not understand, why ice is for tank, and flame is for direct damage? Lightning is OK, but ice makes sense to direct damage pierce because of spikes of ice (skyrim vibes), and fire for dots... for me this makes more sense, and why first spamable is compost of 3 elements damage? I play sorc, and the passive bonus on lightning on sorc, benefit only 1/3 of the damage of the skill spamable of destro staff, make the damage same as the type of staff equipped, and make some special for every staff, why ZoS no make tree different staffs skill lines too... And make a execute skill for staff like others plz...

Elsonso wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Me personally, I just want to have an unarmed magicka skill tree. I don't like having to use a staff to cast magic.

I wonder how they would solve the problem of not having a weapon in that slot that counts for sets.

[snip]
[edited for off-topic post]

HappyTheCamper

This is also a silly request, but I think it’d be cool if the fire on the end of your flame destruction staff changed depending on your class:

DK: Orange (current)
Templar: Gold
Nightblade: Red
Sorc: Dark Blue/indigo
Warden: mint green
Necromancer: light blue
Archanist: lime green

endgamesmug

Im not into this spam aoe execute on the destro line, never gonna use it something single target would be lovely 😁

LunaFlora

destruction staff passives not giving critical chance makes sense as you likely use light armour with a staff and medium armour with stamina weapons

light armour gives critical chance and medium armour doesn't

aaisoaho

I honestly kinda like the way the inferno staves currently are. Bows gives you 6% more crit and a damage bonus that goes from 0 to 12% depending on the range you're at. Inferno staves give you 10% more damage on single target and double the chance of applying status effects, which means comparing weapons isn't as straight forward as one would think.

Of course, at melee, dual wield passives are the strongest. But if you need to be at range sometimes, like in vAS? Melee doesn't cut it. Which ranged weapon should you get? Would you choose 6% crit and 0-12% more damage depending on the range, or 10% damage boost to single target and double the chance of status effects?

Bows becomes better than inferno staves, if you can consistently be at range. If you need to dip in and out of ranged, or if you are often at melee, inferno staves becomes a better option.

Aektann

Please stop this. Topic is not about "unarmed magic".
On topic. I agree that destruction staves needs to be changed.

Rkindaleft

Aektann wrote: »

Please stop this. Topic is not about "unarmed magic".
On topic. I agree that destruction staves needs to be changed.

Thank you so much haha.
I agree that unarmed or one-armed magic needs to be a skill line, but it’s not what the thread is about.

Faulgor

SilverBride wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Your imagination is lacking, then.

On the topic of Destruction Staves in particular, my only suggestion is to change the element of the Force Pulse secondary effect from Magic to the type of staff you are using. With the bonus to magic damage for Wardens gone, I see no use for this whatsoever, and we really need more sources of elemental damage for frost and shock mages.

Otherwise I can just reiterate the desire for a dedicated Alteration Staff or the like as a new tanking weapon, freeing up Frost Staves to be proper Destruction Staves.

[edited to remove quote]

axi

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I “get” the argument that they should do less damage because they have the ability to be played at range, however:

1) They have less base weapon/spell damage than that of melee weapons.

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

3) Their base LA damage is based on a modifier of 0.9x of that of a melee LA, so in simple terms they do 0.9 times the damage of a melee LA.

Melee weapons even on Mag users became the meta as soon as they were hybridised. Destruction Staves need a buff, at minimum they should modernise their passives to work for multiple things at once instead of just its own skill line. For Ranged builds, Bow builds are surpassing them and even currently hold the WR in vAS (Bow Stamplar.)

1. Yes they have lower stats so abilities used while wearing them would deal less dmg than with meele counterparts.
2. There are universal passives in destruction skill line such as increased chance to proc status effects. Every weapon tree have few universal and few weapon specific passives.
3. That's continuation of the point to do less dmg than meele counterparts.

Faulgor

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I “get” the argument that they should do less damage because they have the ability to be played at range, however:

1) They have less base weapon/spell damage than that of melee weapons.

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

3) Their base LA damage is based on a modifier of 0.9x of that of a melee LA, so in simple terms they do 0.9 times the damage of a melee LA.

Melee weapons even on Mag users became the meta as soon as they were hybridised. Destruction Staves need a buff, at minimum they should modernise their passives to work for multiple things at once instead of just its own skill line. For Ranged builds, Bow builds are surpassing them and even currently hold the WR in vAS (Bow Stamplar.)

I also want to agree that it doesn't really make sense that, say, my Crystal Fragments does more damage with Dual Wield than with a Bow, or a Staff. The damage penalty for ranged weapons should only apply to weapon abilities themselves and light/heavy attacks, IMO.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings all,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, as well as keeping things civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding.

ADarklore

I'm fine with Destro skills as they are... but if the topic is how something is outdated... then clearly this thread should also be able to offer ideas for NEW skill lines not just improving an 'outdated' skill line.

I'm still hoping ZOS adds another 'magicka' weapon, such as wands. I'm over basically being forced into using a 'staff' if I want to run a full magicka build since DW doesn't offer any resource return and you have to be in melee range to even USE them against enemies (which negates the main reason people go magicka in the first place, to play at range).

the1andonlyskwex

Faulgor wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I “get” the argument that they should do less damage because they have the ability to be played at range, however:

1) They have less base weapon/spell damage than that of melee weapons.

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

3) Their base LA damage is based on a modifier of 0.9x of that of a melee LA, so in simple terms they do 0.9 times the damage of a melee LA.

Melee weapons even on Mag users became the meta as soon as they were hybridised. Destruction Staves need a buff, at minimum they should modernise their passives to work for multiple things at once instead of just its own skill line. For Ranged builds, Bow builds are surpassing them and even currently hold the WR in vAS (Bow Stamplar.)

I also want to agree that it doesn't really make sense that, say, my Crystal Fragments does more damage with Dual Wield than with a Bow, or a Staff. The damage penalty for ranged weapons should only apply to weapon abilities themselves and light/heavy attacks, IMO.

Definitely this. It's reasonable for LA/HA and weapon skills to be weaker on ranged weapons, but it doesn't make any sense for those weapons to also make melee class skills weaker or for melee weapons to make ranged class skills stronger.

Aside from that, the only destro passives I really take issue with are Penetrating Magic (which only affects destro skills and only gets calculated after all other penetration effects are applied), and the Lightning Staff part of Ancient Knowledge (which is clearly outclassed by the Inferno Staff part).

Billium813

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I “get” the argument that they should do less damage because they have the ability to be played at range, however:

1) They have less base weapon/spell damage than that of melee weapons.

What do you mean? It seems to me that destruction staff damage is pushed way more than melee range weapons and I am not seeing base damaged from staves as less than melee weapons. Lightning Staff has far more single target damage than Inferno staff, for some reason, and gets an AOE cleave. Bow is the king of single target damage, sure, but Two Handed and Dual Wield are a fraction of the damage.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629658/comparing-heavy-attacks

Rkindaleft wrote: »

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

Destruction Staff

Two Handed

Dual Wield

I think Ancient Knowledge, Heavy Weapons, and Twin Blade & Blunt are comparable. I guess Elemental Force is a bit less obviously good compared to Ruffian, but Battle Rush is pretty garbage if you are just looking at damage dealing passives... Seems like Dual Wield does come out ahead though in flat comparisons. It has Dual Wield Expert as well that is spec'd into damage too. I would say from this comparison though, it's Two Handed that is way worse in its passives compared to the others. Worse by a wide margin.

FeedbackOnly

You know what would improve it?

Give us broom staves!

😈

Amottica

Rkindaleft wrote: »

2) Their passives only work for Destruction Staff skills, where as 2H/DW affect multiple skills or give modifiers such as extra critical chance.

OP gets why range weapons do less damage and the first and second point made in the OP explain very well how Zenimax has made that happen. That makes this second point the only one that is relevant to "updating" the only ranged weapon we have.

There is another point left out of here that is a benefit for stamina build, which heavily leans towards melee. Of course this will be a divider of stam and magicka. That is they have a selection of weapon lines which leads to a greater selection of skills. The staff is the only choice for a ranged magicka build whereas a stamina builds have access to three damaging weapon lines.

The original reason for this was likely that there were no stamina-based class skills. There had to be something to give stamina build skills to work with. Those days are long since passed as all class skills with a focus on damage now have a stamina morph. That means it is time for another Magicka-based weapon.

After that is done we can better look at the differences between ranged and melee builds.