Harrowstorms need to Scale to the Number of Players

Androrix

How about this?

No resetting of the pikes if everyone dies. That might meet both our concerns. Thinking out the box.

I turn up to geysers and find the final boss sitting there sometimes. No reason someting similar could not happen with a Harowstorm. If the pikes don't reset you don't get swarm spawns.

SilverBride

That may help but I really don't want to change the mechanics of how these work. I just want them as doable for small groups as for the full groups that just don't happen any more. Just having the number of minibosses scale to the number of players in the group would be great.

spartaxoxo

They honestly should just revert the buff to ghost speed. They used to spawn less frequently, they had actually slowed them down because they had noticed issues with it. And then, they fixed what was apparently a bug that allowed them to be stunned and stop moving for a long time. Sometime around then or maybe after that, the speed got buffed back up.

whitecrow

Androrix wrote: »

Am I really the only one who enjoys Harrowstorms? I am beginning to get a complex reading this thread, so I think instead I will think of it as more of a Robert Frost road less traveled sort of thing

I like them and still do them frequently. I can believe that Blackreach is deserted - I never go there myself any more - but overground it's usually not hard to pull in a couple more people and their companions.

Harrowstorms are great for a number of endeavours, too:

- kill ghosts
- kill vampires
- kill powerful foes (the pikes count too)
- kill foes with weapons skills, poison, etc.

DMuehlhausen

No they don't.

Liguar

Maybe I've also been lucky with the times, but I've been trying to test out the duo strategy in skyrim on PCEU and there have been more people showing up.

Did manage to spawn the final boss before someone else turned up today. Based on our limited sample size, I think we're going to stick together on one pike because that way the adds converge there also.

I fully expected it to be more chaotic, but it seemed more controlled.

I still vote for some kind of scaling to make them more attractive to random passersby, who might just decide not to join in if they see a massive mess of adds.

Marcus684

I used to think they needed adjustment until I finally got serious about improving my build. Now that I have a decent balance of damage, self-heals, resource regeneration and resistance I’ve changed my mind. Yes, they are a definite challenge and a big time commitment to solo or do with few players, but this is as it should be. There are very few really challenging foes left in overland and nerfing this one would be a shame.

If you’re having trouble completing the 30 quest achievement just wait until the next promotional event that ZOS periodically runs there. There’ll be plenty of helpers then.

fleetingyouth_ESO

I went there last night around 9 pm eastern and there was a decent amount of people doing them. Managed to get the no miniboss spawn achievement with about six people there pretty easily. I suspect it could be done with 3 minimum.

I understand the Ops complaint and wish there was a better solution but even if there are 2 other players of any level at a storm they seem to go down pretty quickly.

SilverBride

fleetingyouth_ESO wrote: »

I went there last night around 9 pm eastern and there was a decent amount of people doing them. Managed to get the no miniboss spawn achievement with about six people there pretty easily. I suspect it could be done with 3 minimum.

I understand the Ops complaint and wish there was a better solution but even if there are 2 other players of any level at a storm they seem to go down pretty quickly.

I've tried to do several of these recently and that is not the reality. These are difficult for many players and they are not going down quickly with 3 players.

Even if SOME players are geared and skilled and find them easy, that is not how it is for most players.

Androrix

fleetingyouth_ESO wrote: »

I went there last night around 9 pm eastern and there was a decent amount of people doing them. Managed to get the no miniboss spawn achievement with about six people there pretty easily. I suspect it could be done with 3 minimum.

I understand the Ops complaint and wish there was a better solution but even if there are 2 other players of any level at a storm they seem to go down pretty quickly.

My experience is the same as yours. But "quickly" is always relative. OP's quickly may be different from ours.

If there really had to be a solution @spartaxoxo suggestion of reverting the speed of ghosts is elegant. I also suggested possibly not allowing the pikes to reset if players die.

I do not agree with OP that most players experience is the same as their's. Or that only some player groups can do Harrowstorm's quickly (again a relative term). But then, nor can I speak for most players. I just don't want to lose one of the only challenging, fun things left in overland (again from my perspective only).

jle30303

Honestly, I think Witch-Pikes could simply be reduced from tier-3 to tier-2 boss level. They just take TOO long to knock down unless you have a horde of players with you.

Gnesnig

SilverBride wrote: »

It doesn't matter if some players solo these, most players can't. And there are not many players doing them anymore to find a decent sized group.

We were all focusing on the same pikes and killing the ghosts, but the amount of mini bosses was ridiculous. It shouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was for just 5 players.

Winter's Respite and Venomous Smite are still sets that are widely used to scale up a character, so just call out in zone chat and you'll usually get more people. Doing outside of peak hours has diminished greatly though.

In our guild we do "Baby toon sunday" and sometimes do harrowstorms and western skyrim wb quests. That's also an option to get a 12 people low level toons group with 1 or 2 baby sitters for transport to do older but still fun content.

drakhan2002_ESO

I think this could easily be exploited...kick off the Harrowstorm with 1 person...then gang rush it with a bunch of people...OP - 4 players should be able to do a Harrowstorm without a problem unless you're under-geared or under CP.

Kite42

Definitely scale them. Crazy not to.

SilverBride

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

I think this could easily be exploited...kick off the Harrowstorm with 1 person...then gang rush it with a bunch of people...OP - 4 players should be able to do a Harrowstorm without a problem unless you're under-geared or under CP.

That wouldn't happen because the more players that show up the more difficult it would become. Scaling doesn't just reduce the difficulty, it increases it too, all based on how many players are engaging it at that moment.

For example, let's say there are 3 players doing a Harrowstorm so it's limited to 1 miniboss, then 2 more players arrive so now a second miniboss can appear, etc.. It would not be locked in to how many were around when it was first engaged but rather how many are there at that moment.

Also, as I've stressed before, it doesn't matter what players should be able to do, which always has a stipulation, i.e. "unless you're under geared or under CP". What matters is what players are actually doing and I've seen way more small groups struggle than easily succeed.

Mansquito

These should be the equivalent of what a trial is to a dungeon. I.e. more difficult than world bosses. The plus side is that it's overland, so you don't have to apply to a group to have a chance of completing it. It's the sweet spot if difficult PVE group content that you can do if you're not a sociable guild member.

If you want easy content, go and do easy content. There needs to remain some content that is difficult to do.

Lixiviant

The issue here is simply that there aren't many players in Western Skyrim. So the Harrowstorms start up and you are standing there, by yourself, hoping someone will show up from your Guild or a shout out. It just doesn't happen.

I can't solo these by myself. So I understand the need to scale these so they aren't "locked out" for small groups, or even a group of new players.

SilverBride

Mansquito wrote: »

If you want easy content, go and do easy content. There needs to remain some content that is difficult to do.

I never suggested that these be made easy. I suggested that they scale to the number of players engaging them because there are a lot less players in this zone now which makes it hard to find good sized groups to combat them.

Scaling the number of Harrowstorm minibosses to the number of players engaging them wouldn't make these mobs any less difficult but it would give smaller groups a chance to still enjoy them.

Iriidius

If content requires a group than players also should have the option to join a group. Telling players that harrowstorms are group content and they should get a group when they obviously dont have the option to get a group is bad behaviour. If there are not enaugh players available to do content than the content doesnt get done what is not the sense of content. Threat creator also doesnt suggests to make harrowstorms easier, but tomake harrowstorms scale with number of players, so if you do harrowstorms with a good sized group you still have the same difficulty. Somehow it is ok if players in offhours cant do harrowstorms/dragons but discrimination if players in offhours cant take every keep/scroll/outpost/village/ressoursse on every campaign when other alliances are offline and get the same reward not only for themselves but also for their alliance as if they took it when there is balanced pvp, althought the first one hurts nobody and the second one destroys pvp

Alastrine

Basically, I agree with pretty much all the reasons given to NOT scale the Harrowstorms. Leave them as is. They are a group event, same as a trial, same as a group dungeon.

I've been playing since the beginning and there are a lot of new DLC dungeons that I haven't done because while some can do them solo or only 2 a lot have mechanics that 'need' 4. Trials need a large group.. I've only done 1 of those so far, with one of my guilds.
I don't go saying make these group events scale for a smaller group so I can run them with a friend that I tend to play with a lot. It's game content, and no, I can't do it under most circumstances, but I completely support them staying just as they are.

Seems to me there's an event in Western Skyrim once a year pretty much. Grab all the storms then, when the place is hopping with players. That's what I did for most of them. Same as lots of zones that go quiet between events.
Gosh, stop always wanting to scale everything. Some things need to stay a challenge and no matter how much you say you aren't asking to make it easier, that's exactly what you are asking for.

They gave people companions (which btw I can't stand, but thats another discussion) and so many newer people I know now don't even bother to really think out a build to do harder content. They rely on their companion to heal them etc. They are like "hey now I can solo dolmens thanks to my companion!" I'm not talking trying to make a meta build but just actually paying attention to having 2 5-pce sets for the buffs and maybe a monster set. I remember in the beginning when you couldn't solo dolmens much but it was part of the fun and the challenge to tweak this or that to get there.

If they don't want to do the tweaking or 'just want to play' there is lots of content in this game made for that. If you want to do all the content then put in the consideration and thought to help you get there.
That's my feelings on it anyway.

SilverBride

Alastrine wrote: »

Basically, I agree with pretty much all the reasons given to NOT scale the Harrowstorms. Leave them as is. They are a group event, same as a trial, same as a group dungeon.

Actually, they aren't. Players can use the Dungeon Finder to find groups for those. And there are guilds that organize Trial groups.

There is nothing like that for Harrowstorms... only relying on finding enough other players in a less populated zone, which is not likely to happen.

And why should players that are questing in Western Skyrim have to wait for an event to complete their zone map? That is not a solution.

Androrix

SilverBride wrote: »

Actually, they aren't. Players can use the Dungeon Finder to find groups for those. And there are guilds that organize Trial groups.

There is nothing like that for Harrowstorms... only relying on finding enough other players in a less populated zone, which is not likely to happen.

And why should players that are questing in Western Skyrim have to wait for an event to complete their zone map? That is not a solution.

Actually I have seen a bunch of guild events for Harrowstorms. I don't like it when they happen because the storms go down lickety split and you have to race to get there in time. It's dolmens all over again.

Skyrim is not sparsely populated during the evening and at night. Help is always available.

I don't want to have to group up to do DLC dungeons. Harrowstorms are a group event where players don't have to worry about toxic group chatter. Why shouldn't DLC dungeons be scaled so I can solo them? It really is no different at all from what you are asking. It is actually worse because if you want to play solo you can't do those dungeons. But I have accepted that. With Harrowstorms you just have to wait until someone turns up. You don't even have to do that, you can go about your business in skyrim until someone posts in zone chat.

Androrix

Lixiviant wrote: »

I can't solo these by myself. So I understand the need to scale these so they aren't "locked out" for small groups, or even a group of new players.

Why not scale trials so new players aren't locked out? Also scale them for small groups.

Seems fair.

Shagreth

Agreed. Also, put some amazing new vampiric furniture lead or something to attract more people. Or better yet, a new look for vampire scion.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

SilverBride

Androrix wrote: »

Skyrim is not sparsely populated during the evening and at night. Help is always available.

On what server and in what time zone? And what about those who don't play in the evening or at night?

When Greymoor was new content this wasn't an issue but it's not nearly as populated as before and the interest in running Harrowstorms is much less. This is a problem that needs to be addressed in an effort to keep older content from becoming completely obsolete.

Alastrine

SilverBride wrote: »

Androrix wrote: »

Skyrim is not sparsely populated during the evening and at night. Help is always available.

On what server and in what time zone? And what about those who don't play in the evening or at night?

When Greymoor was new content this wasn't an issue but it's not nearly as populated as before and the interest in running Harrowstorms is much less. This is a problem that needs to be addressed in an effort to keep older content from becoming completely obsolete.

It's a problem for you and some others that you (and some others) want addressed.
It's not a problem for a lot of others.
This is not a 'bug' in the game that 'needs to be addressed', its simply something you and some want changed.
You posted your suggestion on a forum, people will chime in and not everyone will agree. There seems to be a vibe in your replies that you feel everyone who doesn't agree is wrong and no suggestions are of any merit.
Others aren't 'wrong' for disagreeing with you.
Neither are you wrong for feeling it should be changed.
Not everything in the game is going to make everyone happy, nor is the game completely adjustable to suit every player in every timezone for exactly the time they play, but people still seem to think it should be. That's just how it is.

Never know what ZoS will do, but if I was a betting person I would say this will never happen. They are too busy with other stuff. But then.... I'm not much of a betting person
You've made your case, put forth a suggestion and others have made theirs. I guess we'll see if anything changes down the road.

MreeBiPolar

Alastrine wrote: »

Basically, I agree with pretty much all the reasons given to NOT scale the Harrowstorms. Leave them as is. They are a group event, same as a trial, same as a group dungeon.

No, they aren't, period. They are the "world events", same as dolmens, geysers, dragons and volcanic vents.

Whereas ALL the others do have built-in scaling for small number of people engaging them (I am not sure if scaling triggers at 3 or 4 people), harrowstorms don't.

SilverBride

Alastrine wrote: »

You posted your suggestion on a forum, people will chime in and not everyone will agree. There seems to be a vibe in your replies that you feel everyone who doesn't agree is wrong and no suggestions are of any merit.
Others aren't 'wrong' for disagreeing with you.

I accept that others may disagree but I will clarify and defend my opinion when I see it being misinterpreted.

The only posts that I consider "wrong" are the ones stating that I am asking to make Harrowstorms easier which is not the case. I don't want the mobs made any easier. I just want the number of minibosses to scale to the number of players engaging them. The scaling would also work both ways making it so that the more players that arrive the more minibosses would spawn.

It's a fact that there are a lot less players in the zone now and a lot less interest in Harrowstorms. Scaling would help all players be able to continue enjoying these.

Iriidius

Dragons scale with number of people? If I am solo they still have 18 million hp and oneshot with incineration point. Maybe only the adds scale.

Trials are made for premades of 12 experienced PvE players, new dlc dungeons are also made for premades or PuGs of 4 experienced PvE players, world events are for randoms.
Trials and DLC dungeons are for endgame pve community and dont have to be doable all the time, world events are for everyone and should attract the players they need themselve, you shouldnt have to search and wait long for people to do them.
Dolmens are soloable, if they would be as difficult as harrowstorms many would never be done. The dolmens in Alikr are more popular because they are near wayshrine and can be farmed. Maybe if harrowstorms were nearer to wayshrines they would be more popular. Maybe there have to be wayshrines near the harrowstorms.

thedocbwarren

Not sure why but I still find Dolmens far more fun than Arenas (which bore me and annoy me terribly,) Trials, group stuff.

I think ESO does handle multiplayer pretty well-ish but certainly inconsistent and somewhat annoying in some cases. Just my opinion.