Harrowstorms need to Scale to the Number of Players

SilverBride

I just finished doing a Harrowstorm with 4 other players and it took a ridiculous amount of time, and multiple deaths before we finally finished it.

Western Skyrim isn't a current zone and there aren't many players doing these any more. PLEASE make these scale to the number of players so we can succeed at them in smaller groups. Getting a full group is impossible unless there is an event going on in the zone that calls for them.

This would be great for the QOL patch this year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please consider this.

spartaxoxo

All it would take is slowing down or stopping the ghosts based off the number of players. If they were really slow with a small group, then as long as at least one person is slowing/killing them, the mini bosses wouldn't spawn. One player means no or very slow ghosts. They already have respawn checks when a pike goes down. So it can check number of players to determine new ghosts at that time.

Alternatively, they could go extremely fast when there's a large crowd so that the storms are chaos when there's tons of people.

I mean I know they are technically soloable as is because I have done that, but it's not possible for many people in overland.

SilverBride

It doesn't matter if some players solo these, most players can't. And there are not many players doing them anymore to find a decent sized group.

We were all focusing on the same pikes and killing the ghosts, but the amount of mini bosses was ridiculous. It shouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was for just 5 players.

KENDALLPOP

Agreed, Harrowstorms need an adjustment to align with how Western Skyrim/Reach areas have lost players doing dailies and general passersby who join in on these kinds of things. They are pretty dead zones generally when people do callouts for help.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

It doesn't matter if some players solo these, most players can't. And there are not many players doing them anymore to find a decent sized group.

We were all focusing on the same pikes and killing the ghosts, but the amount of mini bosses was ridiculous. It shouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was for just 5 players.

Yes I agree. That's why I suggested slowing down the ghosts. They actually buffed the ghost speed a while back, they use to go slower and when they were stunned, they'd stop moving to the pike at all. This allowed them to be able to stopped from reaching the pikes. 1 person could prevent any champions for spawning. There is even an achievement for not allowing any bosses to be spawned.

Then they decided that they shouldn't get disabled on stun or move so slowly anymore. And now it's basically impossible not to have the champion spawn unless there is a ridiculous amount of player power at the pikes. I would bet hardly anyone gets that achievement anymore outside of events. Though much of the player base probably has it anyway thanks to events and AWA.

If they slowed down the ghosts dramatically depending on the number of people at the pikes, you wouldn't get champions anymore at pikes where at least 1 person is paying attention to ghosts. If there are no champions, it makes the Harrowstorms reasonably able to be completed by an average small group of players.

Ghost speed depending on group size would also make them more challenging during events, which is the opposite problem caused by the same core issue. The Harrowstorms don't change based off number of players.

Ragnarok0130

Harrowstorms are meant to be group content so they shouldn't be soloable or scalable. If you want to run Harrowstorms either wait for players to join you or have guild members help. Not everything in ESO needs to be easy or solo friendly. I can't solo a Harrow Storm when in my DPS or questing spec but once 2-3 people show up we can take them down and more players normally join in as the Harrowstorm progresses.

SilverBride

I never said they should be soloable but they absolutely should be scalable. They did that with Summerset's Geysers so why should Harrowstorms be different?

spartaxoxo

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Harrowstorms are meant to be group content so they shouldn't be soloable or scalable. If you want to run Harrowstorms either wait for players to join you or have guild members help. Not everything in ESO needs to be easy or solo friendly. I can't solo a Harrow Storm when in my DPS or questing spec but once 2-3 people show up we can take them down and more players normally join in as the Harrowstorm progresses.

Other group events scale based on size and are soloable. I can solo Harrowstorms right now, actually.

SilverBride

Most players can't solo them. But my point is that this zone isn't as populated as it was when the zone was current and there just aren't enough players to form the size groups that most players need to defeat them.

AvalonRanger

[Harrowstorms need to Scale to the Number of Players]

Totally disagree.

Once I did it with only 1 decent DPS by my tanking. Only 2 of us finished it within 10min.

Well, most of DPS player ignore mechanism of it, and keep doing nonsense at there.
So they die many times, and can't deal effective damage. As a tank main player,
I always feel huge frustration for it.

SilverBride

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Once I did it with only 1 decent DPS by my tanking. Only 2 of us finished it within 10min.

That is not the way it is for most players. I have never seen one done that fast with less than a full group and I've done plenty of them on all my characters.

The fact is that these are very difficult for most players and there are few players participating in them any more. Geysers were scaled to the number of players for the same reasons these should be, too, and Geysers aren't nearly as difficult as Harrowstorms.

Rkindaleft

YES YES YES YES YES YES YS

I disagree with the poster a few comments above. Spending near 10 mins to complete a harrowstorm as a duo is not my idea
of fun. They shouldn’t be face roll easy, but there’s no reason why they should not be scalable, given that outside of events barely anyone runs them and it’s difficult to find groups for them, especially because they are too hard to solo for most players. Even with 3-4 players it takes a while, with random one shots from shrikes and bosses spawning everywhere because most people don’t know to kill the ghosts (this is coming from a player that can solo them, although it takes ages.) The drops are pathetic unless you hit the lottery with a purple furnishing. Usually I get just enough to repair my gear.

Please consider making them scalable or buff the drops slightly so more people are incentivised to participate in the content. They are completely non-futureproof the way they are now, when there are more zones and more lucrative rewards from other world events (such as dragons.)

Vulsahdaal

SilverBride wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Once I did it with only 1 decent DPS by my tanking. Only 2 of us finished it within 10min.

That is not the way it is for most players. I have never seen one done that fast with less than a full group and I've done plenty of them on all my characters.

Ive done it also, not just once but quite a few times. My tank, and my friend's DPS (who btw was no killer DPS, probably would just say average).

Or sometimes with DPS that would just show up, or when the popularity was down, I would call out in zone for 'Pike DPS' needed at xxx HS.

This was a little different than 'xxx HS up' or 'help needed at xxx HS' in that if you answer the latter 2 calls, you never really know what you may be going into.

But the first usually meant that it was tank controlled, so as a DPS you could take down the pikes much quicker than a tank could, and in return the tank would keep the ghosts in check and any big bads far from the pike being worked on.

It was a great partnership and it worked well regardless of if there were a crowd of players present, or only a couple. It also gave tanks a purpose, something lacking in other world events. And it was fun, even if rewards werent that great.

The reason you dont see this happening now is because this all came to a stop as soon as they made ghosts unstunnable and unstoppable (other than outright killing them, but thats pointless. As soon as you kill one set, the next springs up and meanwhile, the other 2 sets have already reached their pikes).

I dont really see how this could be scaled down, as HS uses different mechanics than other world events. I think all thats really necessary is just make the ghosts stunnable again.

It shouldnt be that difficult to do, it was like this for the longest time. I dont see why it had to change?

BlueRaven

Yeah, they are a problem.

The scaling issues were pointed out when the zones were current, and nothing was done. So I am not expecting anything to change.

Androrix

SilverBride wrote: »

I just finished doing a Harrowstorm with 4 other players and it took a ridiculous amount of time, and multiple deaths before we finally finished it.

Western Skyrim isn't a current zone and there aren't many players doing these any more. PLEASE make these scale to the number of players so we can succeed at them in smaller groups. Getting a full group is impossible unless there is an event going on in the zone that calls for them.

This would be great for the QOL patch this year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please consider this.

Have to disagree. I spend the bulk of my time in Western Skyrim. Harrowstorms are my favorite part of the game. Maybe it is a relative issue, but in my epxerience four players normally take down Harrowstorms very quickly if they understand the mechanics...regardless of their level. And that was even before oakensoul and companions. Quickly to me may be slow to you though, that I understand. Also if I need help I ask in zone and usually someone turns up. And I don't belong to a guild so I don't even have a guildee to ask. Nor am I an "endgamer".

It would be a complete tragedy from my perspective if Harrowstorms turn into the un-utterly boring dolmens where you have to sprint like crazy to an active one if you want to be there before it is gone. Geysers are only a little better. This would just be a further dumbing down of already dumbed down overland content. Oakensoul and companions have already dumbed down Harrowtorms. I would hate to see them trashed this way.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

SilverBride

What I am hearing from some is that they are not a problem IF you have a very well geared and experienced tank and IF others show up to help in a zone that is no longer heavily populated and IF you have DPS that understand the mechanics and know what they are doing. The reality is that many of these IFs never happen.

I'm not asking that they be made easy. Just that they scale to the number of players in a low populated zone that is difficult to find a decent sized group in now.

AvalonRanger

Harrowstorms need to Scale to the Number of Players Bookmark

SilverBride wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Once I did it with only 1 decent DPS by my tanking. Only 2 of us finished it within 10min.

That is not the way it is for most players. I have never seen one done that fast with less than a full group and I've done plenty of them on all my characters.

The fact is that these are very difficult for most players and there are few players participating in them any more. Geysers were scaled to the number of players for the same reasons these should be, too, and Geysers aren't nearly as difficult as Harrowstorms.

But, I tested it in today again. My DPS is Just CP 80 and 300 degree. But we finished it within 15 min.
Do you really think those players are too much strong?

The most of failure reason of Harrowstorms are...

1) Fake tank. Like the most of bad random normal run team.

2) Fake Healer.

3) Brain-dead DPS ignore to kill ghost, or deal damage against the totem.
And ignore situation control of tank player, and keep attacking wrong target.

4) Too much unbalanced glass build, or too much low damage DPS.

If you have decent 4 men dungeon combat technique, you can finish it in short time.

Androrix

SilverBride wrote: »

What I am hearing from some is that they are not a problem IF you have a very well geared and experienced tank and IF others show up to help in a zone that is no longer heavily populated and IF you have DPS that understand the mechanics and know what they are doing. The reality is that many of these IFs never happen.

I'm not asking that they be made easy. Just that they scale to the number of players in a low populated zone that is difficult to find a decent sized group in now.

Hmmm...honestly it makes no difference to me if there is a tank or a healer. You are correct, though, that it is necessary to know the mechanics. Just fighting monsters is no good at all. Concentrate on the pikes and the ghosts feeding them. Ghosts heal the pikes and generate monsters. All players should focus on the same pike...usually the one with the lowest health or the one targeted by the senior player. Mass and economy of force.

I died many times until I learned the mechanics. If you don't know the mechanics then scaling won't help as much as you think.

Androrix

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Other group events scale based on size and are soloable. I can solo Harrowstorms right now, actually.

I finally soloed one a couple of weeks back! My favorite achievement in the game. Usually I would get to the last pike and be in a standoff with a swarm of monsters. Not sure I want to solo it again LOL.

I think if there was to be a change at all, your suggestion of slowing the ghosts based on number of players is (as usual) the smart one.

Zodiarkslayer

I agree on the scaling.

The thing is that no player should be kept from playing content by difficulty or scale, i.e. that you need a group. Period.
The reality is that ESO is no classic MMO. At least not anymore. That MMO argument ("get a group";"ask in zone chat") is ridiculous in this context.

It's a while back that I was able to SOLO a Harrowstorm. The best build was the Magplar from U34. That one rocked all content.
And I am pretty sure that you have to ignore the ghosts and go for the pikes directly. Usually the ghosts get nuked when they get close to the pike.

Liguar

I just recently started doing a few of these, and luckily most times there have been a handful of other players around, but I was wondering what the approach should be when we're only two, focus on one pike at a time and hope to deal with the spawns, or should we split up and take one pike each?

SilverBride

AvalonRanger wrote: »

If you have decent 4 men dungeon combat technique, you can finish it in short time.

That is just another IF that is not the most encountered reality.

I kept yelling for the others to stay on the same pike but one player kept moving to a different one then yet another. This is what happens more often than not. They eventually did listen but it was still a long tedious struggle.

I know some players find them easy and some players solo them and etc., but that doesn't change the reality that most players struggle with these. And more importantly there just aren't enough players in the zone now, and players that are experienced with Harrowstorms, and it's a situation that could be made more reasonable by scaling to the number of players.

Vulsahdaal

Liguar wrote: »

I just recently started doing a few of these, and luckily most times there have been a handful of other players around, but I was wondering what the approach should be when we're only two, focus on one pike at a time and hope to deal with the spawns, or should we split up and take one pike each?

I think its probably better to stay together on one pike. This is the usual way its done, unless one of you is a tank.

Liguar

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

I think its probably better to stay together on one pike. This is the usual way its done, unless one of you is a tank.

Thank you. That is the approach we tried but we felt like we started to get overrun anyway. Wasn't sure if it was more important to dispatch more ghosts. But given the rest of this thread we're probably just not able to duo them at present.

Rkindaleft

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Harrowstorms need to Scale to the Number of Players Bookmark

SilverBride wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Once I did it with only 1 decent DPS by my tanking. Only 2 of us finished it within 10min.

That is not the way it is for most players. I have never seen one done that fast with less than a full group and I've done plenty of them on all my characters.

The fact is that these are very difficult for most players and there are few players participating in them any more. Geysers were scaled to the number of players for the same reasons these should be, too, and Geysers aren't nearly as difficult as Harrowstorms.

But, I tested it in today again. My DPS is Just CP 80 and 300 degree. But we finished it within 15 min.
Do you really think those players are too much strong?

The most of failure reason of Harrowstorms are...

1) Fake tank. Like the most of bad random normal run team.

2) Fake Healer.

3) Brain-dead DPS ignore to kill ghost, or deal damage against the totem.
And ignore situation control of tank player, and keep attacking wrong target.

4) Too much unbalanced glass build, or too much low damage DPS.

If you have decent 4 men dungeon combat technique, you can finish it in short time.

But again, taking 15 minutes to beat 1 storm is not fun, at least for most players. Why would I want to do something that takes 15 minutes for a reward that I can get in 90 seconds solo from a base game dolmen? This is the key problem with harrowstorms. Most players don’t want to do something hard/time consuming just for the sake of doing something hard/time consuming. There is no incentive to run the content unless you like the storms themselves, which the way they are now the amount of players who do is few and far between.

Alaztor91

There is no need to nerf them, just increase the rewards. People still do Dragons(in S.Elsweyr at least) because of the alchemy ingredients they drop, so just change one of the 4 properties of Vile Coagulant to Heroism(which I assume is what makes the Dragon stuff desirable) and give it a similar drop rate to the Dragon Rheum/Blood you get from kills and the extra loot sack.

SilverBride

Alaztor91 wrote: »

There is no need to nerf them, just increase the rewards. People still do Dragons(in S.Elsweyr at least) because of the alchemy ingredients they drop, so just change one of the 4 properties of Vile Coagulant to Heroism(which I assume is what makes the Dragon stuff desirable) and give it a similar drop rate to the Dragon Rheum/Blood you get from kills and the extra loot sack.

I doubt many people will return to Western Skyrim and spend the time finding groups and doing Harrowstorms for a better reward when there are so many other places they can go that already have better rewards. It would have to be something really exceptional to draw a lot of players back to an older zone.

I don't understand the pushback against just scaling Harrowstorms like they already do with Geysers. It has no downside and would help players that are still trying to complete this content.

spartaxoxo

Liguar wrote: »

I just recently started doing a few of these, and luckily most times there have been a handful of other players around, but I was wondering what the approach should be when we're only two, focus on one pike at a time and hope to deal with the spawns, or should we split up and take one pike each?

Split up. The pike goes down faster with two people. But if you're killing both the pike and the ghosts on a witch pike, you get way less champions. The champions are what make it difficult.

SilverBride

I have found that unless a player does a LOT of DPS, splitting up the Pikes isn't very effective. They usually go down a lot faster if players focus on one at a time.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I have found that unless a player does a LOT of DPS, splitting up the Pikes isn't very effective. They usually go down a lot faster if players focus on one at a time.

The pikes do go down faster. But, the less champions, the easier the fight is. I personally believe that it's better to spend a couple minutes more on the pikes than on the champions. The champions add a lot of extra health to the fight and they cause wipes sometimes because of their difficult to manage attacks. The champions are super tough, so the less of them you get, the better off your group is.

This only works though if both have the ability to actually cc and kill the ghost. If the ghosts aren't dying anyway than it's better to attack the pike together so the pike falls faster.

SilverBride

If the players do great DPS and can take down the Pikes fast. Otherwise the Champions keep spawning because the Pikes are staying up too long.