DLC and non-DLC dungeons need separate queues.

Soarora

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

Yes. And this is why are rewarded for doing random.

Player does the dungeons they want = unpaid

Player allows the dungeon finder to put the anywhere it needs them instead of the specific dungeon(s) they want = paid.

If players want the reward from a zone quest, they have to do that quest. They can't do a crafting writ instead. Most rewards exist in this game as a reward for doing a particular task. Some of them even make that task the only way to get that reward, which is not the case for random dungeon finder. All of its rewards can be obtained through alternative methods.

I think it makes sense for ZOS to offer a reward for being helpful. It allows for the biggest number of successful groups to be created.

If the player would prefer not to offer their assistance. That's okay. They just don't get the bonus reward for doing a random dungeon if they instead pick specific ones. They can still queue for all the dungeons they would like to do in specific, and the finder will do it's best to find them a group.

The random queue is not a public service that players join so they can be nice and help others. It's players looking for groups to run random dungeons with, not to fill in for players that choose long difficult dungeons so they can have shorter queues.

It is, though. That’s exactly what the random queue is. In fact, it’s why I queue is solo tank despite the risks— to help people because I know there’s not many tanks in the queue.

That said, I do support a dlc and non dlc separate queue because I hate doing non dlc dungeons. I hope every random vet that it is dlc. The people doing random vet are likely doing it already because they like DLC dungeons, or they would do random norm. The downside, though, is that it’d be the inverse of random norm queue troubles. Normal dlc and vet non dlc may have issues filling groups. But that’s a maybe, won’t know until it’s attempted. Each of the 4 queues having different rewards may increase risk-reward and result in a filling of all queues where people in it for the rewards go for minimum effort maximum reward…
Besides, though, a longer queue where you have to multitask I think is better than the pain of having a group that doesn’t want to be there or leave immediately.

SilverBride

Soarora wrote: »

...I do support a dlc and non dlc separate queue because I hate doing non dlc dungeons...

Separate queues would benefit those who prefer DLC dungeons as well as those who don't.

This may actually encourage more players to queue for randoms. Those who don't want DLC dungeons may be more likely to queue if they knew there was no risk of being put into one. And those who prefer DLC dungeons may be more likely to queue if they knew they would always get a DLC dungeon.

Iriidius

maybe dlc queue/vet queue should give double reward but also have double cooldown. Maybe let players stack daily rewards from dungeons, many players dont want change char after each dungeon/bg/card game.

spartaxoxo

My wait times on DPS can already be like 40 minutes, longer queue is worse. I have no intention of waiting any longer. I'd rather have a dungeon with inexperienced players I can help learn than nobody at all.

Soarora

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My wait times on DPS can already be like 40 minutes, longer queue is worse. I have no intention of waiting any longer. I'd rather have a dungeon with inexperienced players I can help learn than nobody at all.

I think wait times aren’t only because of people in the queue but because queue itself is broken. It’s been broken. At this point it feels like it will be broken forever. The argument is that there’s too many dps in the queue but… a tank + healer queue isn’t always instant. A tank + dps with tank queueing isn’t instant. In progress dungeons for 20 minutes don’t fill until the last boss, where someone in queue for 20 minutes pops in. If people don’t know how to jiggle the handle, they wait a long time. All this is to say that I think a dps solo queue can actually be faster if queue wasn’t so broken, so I don’t know how much of the wait is really because of number of people in the queue.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My wait times on DPS can already be like 40 minutes, longer queue is worse. I have no intention of waiting any longer. I'd rather have a dungeon with inexperienced players I can help learn than nobody at all.

That may not be what the inexperienced players want, and what they want matters, too.

tmbrinks

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My wait times on DPS can already be like 40 minutes, longer queue is worse. I have no intention of waiting any longer. I'd rather have a dungeon with inexperienced players I can help learn than nobody at all.

That may not be what the inexperienced players want, and what they want matters, too.

Then they can form their own group and get the experience that they want.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My wait times on DPS can already be like 40 minutes, longer queue is worse. I have no intention of waiting any longer. I'd rather have a dungeon with inexperienced players I can help learn than nobody at all.

That may not be what the inexperienced players want, and what they want matters, too.

If they want to do a specific dungeon, they can do a specific dungeon. If they want to do a random dungeon, they can do a random dungeon. Both are already an option. Random dungeon means random dungeon. There is not a problem with a dungeon queue where people don't get to pick the dungeon they want, as long as there is also a queue where people get to pick the dungeon they want. This game has the option to pick and choose, and the option to let the activity finder choose. In addition, there are no rewards that can only be earned by using the activity finder.

It's fine if people wish that they could queue for anything they want and still get rewards. But, I don't think it's something that ZOS should because splitting the playerbase would not be fair to the players that are using the finder to find groups. The finder being able to get people groups should always be the main priority, giving people transmutes is secondary IMO

SilverBride

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

My wait times on DPS can already be like 40 minutes, longer queue is worse. I have no intention of waiting any longer. I'd rather have a dungeon with inexperienced players I can help learn than nobody at all.

That may not be what the inexperienced players want, and what they want matters, too.

Then they can form their own group and get the experience that they want.

The players waiting for others to fill their groups can do that, too. Gather some friends and guildies and go.

SilverBride

It has absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. Those could be adjusted according to the content.

I want separate queues so everyone can play how they want, not just those who prefer DLC dungeons.

tmbrinks

SilverBride wrote: »

It has absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. Those could be adjusted according to the content.

I want separate queues so everyone can play how they want, not just those who prefer DLC dungeons.

You can already do that.

SilverBride

This is my opinion and it's not going to change, so let's just leave it at that.

Amottica

Iriidius wrote: »

maybe dlc queue/vet queue should give double reward but also have double cooldown. Maybe let players stack daily rewards from dungeons, many players dont want change char after each dungeon/bg/card game.

I have noted here on a couple posts that an option to include or opt out of the DLC dungeons would be good. A superior reward would be provided for including the DLC dungeons though Zenimax would need to to figure out how to scale it for how many DLCs we have access to.

And the reality is that if Zenimax did separate out the queue or provide an opt out that they would provide a greater reward for the DLCs vs not including them for the same reason he random exists in the first place.

So yes. Bring ok this option. I want more gold upgrade matts.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

It has absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. Those could be adjusted according to the content.

I want separate queues so everyone can play how they want, not just those who prefer DLC dungeons.

The only difference between specific and random queue is the rewards.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It has absolutely nothing to do with the rewards. Those could be adjusted according to the content.

I want separate queues so everyone can play how they want, not just those who prefer DLC dungeons.

The only difference between specific and random queue is the rewards.

Some players do want the rewards, but it's not a factor for me. But they could adjust the rewards to the content.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Some players do want the rewards, but it's not a factor for me. But they could adjust the rewards to the content.

If you don't care about the rewards, what would you get out of a random queue for non-dlc dungeons? You can already choose those in specific. Is there something else you're hoping to achieve with that queue e.g. a simpler UI? Genuine question, I'm curious what improvement you'd like to see.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Some players do want the rewards, but it's not a factor for me. But they could adjust the rewards to the content.

If you don't care about the rewards, what would you get out of a random queue for non-dlc dungeons? You can already choose those in specific. Is there something else you're hoping to achieve with that queue e.g. a simpler UI? Genuine question, I'm curious what improvement you'd like to see.

In my experience with dungeon finders in other games it's usually a lot quicker to get in a random group than a specific dungeon. Sometimes I'd like to just run a few dungeons for something different, and I don't want to be stuck in a difficult dungeon for an hour or two.

And I know I could take the time to spam my friends and guildies to form a group but that takes a lot of time, and they may not want to run a few dungeons back to back. Besides, why have a group finder except to use it to find a group?

To clarify, I have used the random dungeon finder in ESO a few times but it's been awhile. It just isn't worth it to me to take a chance on being stuck in content that I do not enjoy.

I'd still like to know why they made DLC dungeons longer and more difficult in the first place, especially since they already had veteran modes for the challenge.

Hotdog_23

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO. Personally, I don’t have a problem with the current system, or maybe I have just gotten used to it over the years. In my view if you want the reward you take the risk. Simple as that. If you don’t want the risk, then you don’t get the reward either.

Never randomly queue as a tank anymore, since it can be a painfully long experience. Generally only randomly queue as a DPS. Not that I am some great DPS player, but I am serviceable. Don’t fake my role, either. I’ll wait like a good little boy for my turn, but when the dungeon hits its balls to the wall unless someone indicated they are questing, or I see them pick up the quest at the start. Could careless if the dungeon is regular or DLC or even if you are a fake tank or healer or what level you are. Really just there for the exp. Don’t need the transmutes, lord knows I have enough taking up space now in my inventory.

Out of the hundreds to probably a thousand plus dungeons I have run, I have only ever been kicked once for going too fast and that was in FG on the first add pull of all places. Ask to slow down once, which I did. Sure, I have had a few tanks being upset that I pulled the boss and would either complain or they would just leave. Just because I start the fight does not mean they still can’t taunt the boss when they decide to show up to the fight. Had a few just stand around like an angry child and do nothing, but had a lot more ask to hold up, so they can change weapons and run as a DPS since a tank is not really needed for 95% of normal dungeons.

If there was a vote and I had the chance to vote to keep the current system.  Stay safe

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Some players do want the rewards, but it's not a factor for me. But they could adjust the rewards to the content.

If you don't care about the rewards, what would you get out of a random queue for non-dlc dungeons? You can already choose those in specific. Is there something else you're hoping to achieve with that queue e.g. a simpler UI? Genuine question, I'm curious what improvement you'd like to see.

In my experience with dungeon finders in other games it's usually a lot quicker to get in a random group than a specific dungeon. Sometimes I'd like to just run a few dungeons for something different, and I don't want to be stuck in a difficult dungeon for an hour or two.

And I know I could take the time to spam my friends and guildies to form a group but that takes a lot of time, and they may not want to run a few dungeons back to back. Besides, why have a group finder except to use it to find a group?

To clarify, I have used the random dungeon finder in ESO a few times but it's been awhile. It just isn't worth it to me to take a chance on being stuck in content that I do not enjoy.

I'd still like to know why they made DLC dungeons longer and more difficult in the first place, especially since they already had veteran modes for the challenge.

The specific dungeon finder isn't actually a separate queue in this game. So, it wouldn't actually find you a dungeon faster than just selecting which dungeons you want (other than it being one button press instead of multiple). The random finder just places a check on all the dungeons at once. It's not different than just hand selecting all the dungeons at once.

SilverBride

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

spartaxoxo

Sometimes I feel like seeing stuff in practice is important. As most people know, if I were to queue tank in random dungeon finder, I can often instantly find a group due to the low amount of tanks that use the finder at all.

However as is shown in this video, when I queued for specifically only the base game dungeons (which afaik are all at the top of the list) I still instantly filled into a group.

https://youtu.be/NcPlepP3ils

The reason for this is because random is not a separate pool in this game.

Soarora

SilverBride wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

DLC isn’t inherently longer. There’s short DLC dungeons. Actually, the newer ones have been shorter. They only have 3 bosses. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, there’s long non DLC too… like the dreaded COA. Normal dlc is also a step in progression. There’s already complaints that normal dlc doesn’t teach mechanics so people have to learn in vet. Additionally, the layout of dungeons don’t change between vet and norm, so if they were shortened even further then vet dlc would have issues. Don’t touch dlc dungeons.

Edit: Also, new =/= hard. The newest ones have followed that pattern but there’s also BDV/TC from Blackwood that are known to be easy.

tmbrinks

SilverBride wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

Players have, and always have, been able to queue for the dungeon content they want. There is a checkbox list where you can choose EXACTLY the dungeons you want to do.

What you are asking for/talking about, already exists in the game.

SilverBride

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

Players have, and always have, been able to queue for the dungeon content they want. There is a checkbox list where you can choose EXACTLY the dungeons you want to do.

What you are asking for/talking about, already exists in the game.

No, it doesn't. I know I can pick and choose specific dungeons, but there is no random dungeon queue that doesn't include DLC dungeons. Those who do the random daily for the rewards are just out of luck and have to take a gamble on getting content they don't enjoy and may not be prepared for.

Others may not agree or understand why this isn't acceptable to everyone, but it is a problem for many and needs to be addressed.

tmbrinks

SilverBride wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

Players have, and always have, been able to queue for the dungeon content they want. There is a checkbox list where you can choose EXACTLY the dungeons you want to do.

What you are asking for/talking about, already exists in the game.

No, it doesn't. I know I can pick and choose specific dungeons, but there is no random dungeon queue that doesn't include DLC dungeons. Those who do the random daily for the rewards are just out of luck and have to take a gamble on getting content they don't enjoy and may not be prepared for.

Others may not agree or understand why this isn't acceptable to everyone, but it is a problem for many and needs to be addressed.

You can pick all of the non-DLC dungeons and it will randomly pick from all of those. Thus, you have your random non-DLC queue.

SilverBride

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

Players have, and always have, been able to queue for the dungeon content they want. There is a checkbox list where you can choose EXACTLY the dungeons you want to do.

What you are asking for/talking about, already exists in the game.

No, it doesn't. I know I can pick and choose specific dungeons, but there is no random dungeon queue that doesn't include DLC dungeons. Those who do the random daily for the rewards are just out of luck and have to take a gamble on getting content they don't enjoy and may not be prepared for.

Others may not agree or understand why this isn't acceptable to everyone, but it is a problem for many and needs to be addressed.

You can pick all of the non-DLC dungeons and it will randomly pick from all of those. Thus, you have your random non-DLC queue.

At the cost of forfeiting the reward. That is not a solution for a lot of players.

Soarora

SilverBride wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

This is an old problem/complaint that has only grown worse over the years as more and more DLC dungeons have been introduced into ESO.

Exactly. Which is why they need to reevaluate this and stop making every single new dungeon longer and more difficult. They have veteran mode, so why make the normal modes more difficult than the original dungeons?

I expect that if players could queue for the content they prefer then more players would start queuing. I know I would.

Players have, and always have, been able to queue for the dungeon content they want. There is a checkbox list where you can choose EXACTLY the dungeons you want to do.

What you are asking for/talking about, already exists in the game.

No, it doesn't. I know I can pick and choose specific dungeons, but there is no random dungeon queue that doesn't include DLC dungeons. Those who do the random daily for the rewards are just out of luck and have to take a gamble on getting content they don't enjoy and may not be prepared for.

Others may not agree or understand why this isn't acceptable to everyone, but it is a problem for many and needs to be addressed.

You can pick all of the non-DLC dungeons and it will randomly pick from all of those. Thus, you have your random non-DLC queue.

At the cost of forfeiting the reward. That is not a solution for a lot of players.

Here’s a solution: low level randoms. People do them all the time. It not only discounts DLC but also discounts COA. Besides, the casuals I know actually have a ton of transmute somehow, they don’t need to do random norms and just do dungeons for fun.

SilverBride

Soarora wrote: »

Here’s a solution: low level randoms. People do them all the time. It not only discounts DLC but also discounts COA. Besides, the casuals I know actually have a ton of transmute somehow, they don’t need to do random norms and just do dungeons for fun.

Having to search for a low level to join the group isn't a solution. That could be very time consuming to do day after day.

Not all players have a ton of transmutes, but even if they do it is the player's decision to make. Players choose to run the random daily for a variety of reasons and they don't need to justify how they choose to play.

Soarora

SilverBride wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Here’s a solution: low level randoms. People do them all the time. It not only discounts DLC but also discounts COA. Besides, the casuals I know actually have a ton of transmute somehow, they don’t need to do random norms and just do dungeons for fun.

Having to search for a low level to join the group isn't a solution. That could be very time consuming to do day after day.

Not all players have a ton of transmutes, but even if they do it is the player's decision to make. Players choose to run the random daily for a variety of reasons and they don't need to justify how they choose to play.

Not search for a low level, be the low level. Faster queues, too. And your argument for doing random over select dungeons was because of the rewards. Which are transmute, exp, and research jewelry to my understanding. Covered transmute, exp can be obtained in many ways, and the jewelry can be bought.

Edit: I think a “select all non dlc” and “select all dlc” button in the select dungeon menu would be great though. Helps keep the randomness feel and saves all that clicking time.

SilverBride

Soarora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Having to search for a low level to join the group isn't a solution. That could be very time consuming to do day after day.

Not search for a low level, be the low level. Faster queues, too. And your argument for doing random over select dungeons was because of the rewards. Which are transmute, exp, and research jewelry to my understanding. Covered transmute, exp can be obtained in many ways, and the jewelry can be bought.

What if the player doesn't have a low level? And why should they be restricted to just using a low level character in the first place?

And what does being able to get transmutes or experience in other ways, or buy jewelry have to do with it? By that logic no one ever needs to run a random daily.

This thread isn't asking for work arounds. It is asking for separate DLC and non DLC random dungeon queues because some players would find this helpful for various reasons. This would greatly enhance their experience and potentially bring more players into the queues.

My opinion on this is very clear and this is all I'm going to say about it.