DLC and non-DLC dungeons need separate queues.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues?

This is a real problem that needs addressed. Either separate the queues into DLC and non DLC, or fix the current and subsequent DLC dungeons to be in line with the base game dungeons. A lot of players don't enjoy them and are not prepared for them and their enjoyment is just as important as anyone else's.

ETA And I'd still like to know why they made the DLC dungeons this way in the first place and why they group them up with other dungeons that they are not comparable with for length and difficulty.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

jaws343

Random Dungeon finder, better described as: being punished for subscribing to ESO+.

As long as the Random Dungeon finder works for players who have not purchased the DLC dungeons or do not subscribe, players who have and do should have the option to opt out of the DLC content for the Random.

If players opt out, it will at least show that ZOS needs to make better dungeon design decisions if they want players to do them more often.

Plus, it weeds out the players who don't want to be in those dungeons or just cannot do them. I'm sorry, but I don't want someone filling in my group for a DLC dungeon who can barely handle fungal 1. They are just a waste of space at that point. At least letting them opt out, even if it means a longer queue time, means that the player that actually ends up in the dungeon wants to be there.

jaws343

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Exactly.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Can you please add any insight on why these dungeons that are very different in length and difficulty are grouped together, and your thoughts on creating separate queues for DLC and non DLC dungeons?

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Exactly.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Can you please add any insight on why these dungeons that are very different in length and difficulty are grouped together, and your thoughts on creating separate queues for DLC and non DLC dungeons?

I'd even go with the opposite too.

If I want to only do the DLC dungeons randomly, I should be able to make that distinction. Maybe I don't want to waste my time, even 10 minutes, "soloing" fungal 1 with a bunch of level 10s.

Amottica

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Are you suggesting I am wrong and a player is actually being forced to queue for a random dungeon?

I have never felt I was forced to choose to queue for a random dungoen and I am fully aware of the variety we have. So I find it odd that it is suggested any aspect of this is forced upon any of us.

Amottica

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Exactly.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Can you please add any insight on why these dungeons that are very different in length and difficulty are grouped together, and your thoughts on creating separate queues for DLC and non DLC dungeons?

I'd even go with the opposite too.

If I want to only do the DLC dungeons randomly, I should be able to make that distinction. Maybe I don't want to waste my time, even 10 minutes, "soloing" fungal 1 with a bunch of level 10s.

@jaws343

Did you read my earlier post where I suggested the option of being able to opt in or opt out of the DLC dungeons when we queued for a random?

It is a great solution and the superior rewards for including the DLC dungeons would be highly desirable. It is also the logical way to go if we are going to offer a choice since it is clear Zenimax will incentivize doing DLC dungeons. Ofc course we do not know if they will demote the purple-quality rewards for opting out of the DLCs or offer a gold-quality reward ( the best choice) for including DLCs based on their access to the DLCs.

It is worth looking at since if Zenimax did offer the option, one way or another, it will happen in a manner similar to what I suggested without question. It would be greater and help people get gold-quality upgrade materials for those who choose to include the DLC dungeons. Brilliant if you ask me.

SilverBride

Amottica wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Are you suggesting I am wrong and a player is actually being forced to queue for a random dungeon?

I have never felt I was forced to choose to queue for a random dungoen and I am fully aware of the variety we have. So I find it odd that it is suggested any aspect of this is forced upon any of us.

We know that no one is forced to queue for a random dungeon. What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

I'd even go with the opposite too.

If I want to only do the DLC dungeons randomly, I should be able to make that distinction. Maybe I don't want to waste my time, even 10 minutes, "soloing" fungal 1 with a bunch of level 10s.

All the more reason why separate queues would be beneficial.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are veteran versions of all these dungeons and that wouldn't change, so those who want a challenge will still have it.

Vet is different and would also be separated most likely. They wouldn't get a challenge if there's nobody to play with because the queue is too long.

So players that want to do the random daily are forced to accept any dungeon they are thrown in no matter if it's too long or too difficult for them so the players that queue specifically for DLC dungeons can have shorter queues? .

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything they do not want to do. Nothing is forced here. If they queue for a random dungeon they are, in fact, asking for a random dungoen. They are literally asking for a chance to run such dungeons.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone. They are choosing to queue or not to queue of their own free will.

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The simple fact is queuing for a random dungeon and a random group of players is a choice. No one is forcing anyone. Nothing in what you cited from the game suggests otherwise.

I never said anyone is being forced to queue. I said those who are queuing are forced into DLC dungeons whether they like it or not.

They chose to queue for a random.

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Are you suggesting I am wrong and a player is actually being forced to queue for a random dungeon?

I have never felt I was forced to choose to queue for a random dungoen and I am fully aware of the variety we have. So I find it odd that it is suggested any aspect of this is forced upon any of us.

We know that no one is forced to queue for a random dungeon. What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

In the example, you provided they chose to queue for a random dungeon so they chose to roll the dice on getting that dungeon. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

If they did not want to do some of the dungeons they should rethink queueing for a random and select which ones they would prefer to run. They have that option.

SilverBride

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We know that no one is forced to queue for a random dungeon. What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

In the example, you provided they chose to queue for a random dungeon so they chose to roll the dice on getting that dungeon. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

If they did not want to do some of the dungeons they should rethink queueing for a random and select which ones they would prefer to run. They have that option.

They also have the option to request separate queues for these dungeons that are so greatly varied in length and difficulty. And I support it.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

Yes. And this is why are rewarded for doing random.

Player does the dungeons they want = unpaid

Player allows the dungeon finder to put the anywhere it needs them instead of the specific dungeon(s) they want = paid.

If players want the reward from a zone quest, they have to do that quest. They can't do a crafting writ instead. Most rewards exist in this game as a reward for doing a particular task. Some of them even make that task the only way to get that reward, which is not the case for random dungeon finder. All of its rewards can be obtained through alternative methods.

I think it makes sense for ZOS to offer a reward for being helpful. It allows for the biggest number of successful groups to be created.

If the player would prefer not to offer their assistance. That's okay. They just don't get the bonus reward for doing a random dungeon if they instead pick specific ones. They can still queue for all the dungeons they would like to do in specific, and the finder will do it's best to find them a group.

spartaxoxo

jaws343 wrote: »

But you can't really think that a dungeon that takes 10 minutes and a dungeon that can take nearly an hour are even remotely suitable to be in the same queue together. Because that is how it is right now. You can get Fungal 1 or you can get LoM. It's absurd.

Yes. Even in the base game the dungeons were various lengths. City of Ash II is also a lot longer than FG I.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

Yes. And this is why are rewarded for doing random.

Player does the dungeons they want = unpaid

Player allows the dungeon finder to put the anywhere it needs them instead of the specific dungeon(s) they want = paid.

If players want the reward from a zone quest, they have to do that quest. They can't do a crafting writ instead. Most rewards exist in this game as a reward for doing a particular task. Some of them even make that task the only way to get that reward, which is not the case for random dungeon finder. All of its rewards can be obtained through alternative methods.

I think it makes sense for ZOS to offer a reward for being helpful. It allows for the biggest number of successful groups to be created.

If the player would prefer not to offer their assistance. That's okay. They just don't get the bonus reward for doing a random dungeon if they instead pick specific ones. They can still queue for all the dungeons they would like to do in specific, and the finder will do it's best to find them a group.

The random queue is not a public service that players join so they can be nice and help others. It's players looking for groups to run random dungeons with, not to fill in for players that choose long difficult dungeons so they can have shorter queues.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We know that no one is forced to queue for a random dungeon. What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

In the example, you provided they chose to queue for a random dungeon so they chose to roll the dice on getting that dungeon. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

If they did not want to do some of the dungeons they should rethink queueing for a random and select which ones they would prefer to run. They have that option.

They also have the option to request separate queues for these dungeons that are so greatly varied in length and difficulty. And I support it.

That was pointed out earlier, that a player can select the specific dungeons they would like to be available for the queue. It works well and is part of why I say it is a choice.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

The random queue is not a public service that players join so they can be nice and help others. It's players looking for groups to run random dungeons with, not to fill in for players that choose long difficult dungeons so they can have shorter queues.

The player joins it for the rewards. The activity finder's purpose is to fill people groups. It is adding an incentive to help others so that ZOS can fill groups.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The random queue is not a public service that players join so they can be nice and help others. It's players looking for groups to run random dungeons with, not to fill in for players that choose long difficult dungeons so they can have shorter queues.

The player joins it for the rewards. The activity finder's purpose is to fill people groups. It is adding an incentive to help others so that ZOS can fill groups.

Players that choose to queue for DLC dungeons specifically have no more right to find a group than players that prefer non DLC dungeons. There is no good reason they can't create separate queues so that all players can choose content they enjoy and are prepared for.

This is my opinion and it's not going to change, so let's just leave it at that.

disintegr8

I'd be all for having 3 queues, Non-DLC, DLC, Any, as long as the random dungeon bonus only applies to the Any queue.

Experience shows that some players aren't ready for a lot of DLC dungeons, and this would allow them to queue for non-DLC without 'cheesing' the daily random reward and without selecting specific dungeons.

I do feel that some of the newer DLC dungeons are overly long and unnecessarily difficult, especially for newer players. You can avoid them by not buying the DLC's but as it stands, ESO+ members queuing for randoms can get any dungeon.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What we are saying is that players that WANT to queue for for a random, whether for the rewards or just for fun, are FORCED to accept DLC dungeons as part of the queue whether they like it or not. So if they want the rewards then yes they are forced to accept DLC dungeons in their queue.

Yes. And this is why are rewarded for doing random.

Player does the dungeons they want = unpaid

Player allows the dungeon finder to put the anywhere it needs them instead of the specific dungeon(s) they want = paid.

If players want the reward from a zone quest, they have to do that quest. They can't do a crafting writ instead. Most rewards exist in this game as a reward for doing a particular task. Some of them even make that task the only way to get that reward, which is not the case for random dungeon finder. All of its rewards can be obtained through alternative methods.

I think it makes sense for ZOS to offer a reward for being helpful. It allows for the biggest number of successful groups to be created.

If the player would prefer not to offer their assistance. That's okay. They just don't get the bonus reward for doing a random dungeon if they instead pick specific ones. They can still queue for all the dungeons they would like to do in specific, and the finder will do it's best to find them a group.

The random queue is not a public service that players join so they can be nice and help others. It's players looking for groups to run random dungeons with, not to fill in for players that choose long difficult dungeons so they can have shorter queues.

The purpose and intent of the rewards for queueing for a random is to encourage players to be available for all dungeons but they are doing so at their own choice since they can be helpful but select only the dungeons they are willing to do. They are obviously not going to get the reward but they will be helpful.

In the end, it is a choice we each make.

spartaxoxo

Just to be clear, the group finder does not prioritize dlc over non-dlc dungeons when someone queues for a specific dungeon.

People who queued for a specific dungeon will only be queued for the dungeon they selected.

People who queued for a random dungeon are queued for all the dungeons and then placed where they are needed. If they aren't needed anywhere or the group is already full when it queues, then the group finder selects a dungeon at random.

If someone only wants to run a non-dlc dungeon, they can queue for just those. They won't get the reward for doing a random dungeon if they are choosing dungeons, but they will get to run the dungeon group of their choice. If they queued for say fungal grotto 2, the activity finder will also pull people from the random dungeons to fill in the FG 2 group if there isn't enough people that specifically wanted FG2 to create a group.

The random dungeon finder ensures everyone can get a group for the content they need. That's its purpose.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The random queue is not a public service that players join so they can be nice and help others. It's players looking for groups to run random dungeons with, not to fill in for players that choose long difficult dungeons so they can have shorter queues.

The player joins it for the rewards. The activity finder's purpose is to fill people groups. It is adding an incentive to help others so that ZOS can fill groups.

Players that choose to queue for DLC dungeons specifically have no more right to find a group than players that prefer non DLC dungeons. There is no good reason they can't create separate queues so that all players can choose content they enjoy and are prepared for.

This is my opinion and it's not going to change, so let's just leave it at that.

But players who choose to queue for a random dungoen should expect that they will be sent to any of the dungeons. After all, that is what they chose. That is the design and intent for queueing for a random dungeon.

INM

SilverBride wrote: »

The player joins it for the rewards. The activity finder's purpose is to fill people groups. It is adding an incentive to help others so that ZOS can fill groups.

Players that choose to queue for DLC dungeons specifically have no more right to find a group than players that prefer non DLC dungeons. There is no good reason they can't create separate queues so that all players can choose content they enjoy and are prepared for.

This is my opinion and it's not going to change, so let's just leave it at that.

Once again, you have the option to not queue for DLC dungeons by choosing non-dlc variants manually, but you won't get a reward, because you restricted your duty of filling groups in need. You queue not only with people who signed for a random dungeon, but with people who want a specific dungeon. It works the same in any game that has a random queue.

By queuing for a random dungeon you're signing off that you don't care what you get into, if you do care then you shouldn't be queuing for a random dungeon in the first place, no rewards are exclusive for random queue anyway.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

colossalvoids

Apart of some players clearly don't understand purpose of random queues the other issue is that ESO doesn't have enough of an active playerbase (anymore?) to do any "splits" here. Both experienced and more casual alike, for literally any game mode.

washbern

For everyone who is saying that people have the option to not queue random, you are clearly missing the point that the reward from doing a random is the reason why people pick it.

I had 8 failed dungeon queues yesterday in a random because I kept getting inexperienced players who have no idea what is taunt or weaving going into places like Stone Garden, Shipwrights Regret, Red Petal Bastion and so on. I literally got paired up with a level 30 for the earthen Grove dungeon. How is that person going to meet the dps check?

A lot of players who can't complete content have a bad experience because they sit in a queue, wipe a bunch of times on the first boss only to see their group disband. Experienced players, people who have done these dungeons way too many times do not want to queue up anymore because of pretty much the same reason. Sure, tanks get instant queues, but if your dps is doing a collective of 5k on the boss, you end up staying in the dungeon way longer than necessary.

I played tank for a few days and I do not think I will ever do it again for a random normal. It is an agonizing experience that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. I am sure I'm not the only one who feels that way, which is why you have experienced players queuing up as fake tanks or people speed-running the dungeons if they queue up at all. Who is this benefiting? Maybe the occasional newbie who gets a free carry but that is all.

New players don't learn to play because groups either disband or things get obliterated. I have. Ot seen a random queue with such disparity in difficulty between its dungeons in any game.

tmbrinks

Easy solution if the "random" group doesn't meet your expectations.

Form your own.

You want the bonus rewards, either accept randomness, or get 3 friends together and queue as a group to get your rewards.

Or, if you don't want to run DLC dungeons, just queue for the base game dungeons, nothing is stopping you. I still read this entire thread as "I want my easy transmutes and be able to just run FG1 all day to get them"

We aren't 'missing the point' as a few here are wont to say, we are expressing our opinions on the idea. Most of us with the very logical explanation that further splitting the queue would greatly increase wait times. There is already precedent for doing the OPPOSITE of the suggestion here when they combined BG queues because people were getting hour+ wait times. DPS already has those for dungeons. I would sincerely hope that ZoS isn't going to do something that makes these longer....

SilverBride

Which is worse? Longer wait times or having the group filled with inexperienced players that have no idea what they are doing that end up dropping from frustration or causing your own group member to drop from frustration and causing less players to queue for random because of all this making queue times even longer?

People keep saying to choose specific dungeons rather than the random queue but this takes more players out of the queue and increases wait times which is what players say is one of the reasons they don't want separate queues.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

Which is worse? Longer wait times or having the group filled with inexperienced players that have no idea what they are doing that end up dropping from frustration or causing your own group member to drop from frustration and causing less players to queue for random because of all this making queue times even longer?

People keep saying to choose specific dungeons rather than the random queue but this takes more players out of the queue and increases wait times which is what players say is one of the reasons they don't want separate queues.

We cannot stop people from making [snip] decisions in an MMORPG and the game should not change because there are some people who are like that.

[edited for potential bait]

tmbrinks

SilverBride wrote: »

Which is worse? Longer wait times or having the group filled with inexperienced players that have no idea what they are doing that end up dropping from frustration or causing your own group member to drop from frustration and causing less players to queue for random because of all this making queue times even longer?

People keep saying to choose specific dungeons rather than the random queue but this takes more players out of the queue and increases wait times which is what players say is one of the reasons they don't want separate queues.

Longer wait times... for sure.

I'll admit, I rarely queue anymore, i have the gear i need, and if im running now its for motifs, so i. doing vet hard mode for the guaranteed drop. If I run dungeons I go in with a group of friends so I know what I'm getting.

On the cases I do queue, I've very rarely had any issues completing any DLC dungeon on normal. I'm positive the "8 times in a row" is an exaggeration, as I have probably had it happen 8 times total over the hundreds or thousands of dungeons I've queued for.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

Which is worse? Longer wait times or having the group filled with inexperienced players that have no idea what they are doing that end up dropping from frustration or causing your own group member to drop from frustration and causing less players to queue for random because of all this making queue times even longer?

People keep saying to choose specific dungeons rather than the random queue but this takes more players out of the queue and increases wait times which is what players say is one of the reasons they don't want separate queues.

Nothing will change having inexperienced players in any of the dungeons. I have seen players die repeatedly in base game dungeons. I have also seen players leave a dungeon at the start because another player in the group had low CP.

In the end, we choose to queue for a random dungeon and a random group. It is a choice. Unless Zenimax can figure out how to give a superior reward to those who include a DLC in their random dungeon then this will likely remain the same.

One option Zenimax should consider making the lockout for dropping a random dungoen group an account-wide lockout. This would help curb players dropping the group prematurely.