Ideas for New Racial Passives

Stx

The current racial passives are outdated when it comes to game balance, and also are not all lore friendly. I thought I would make a list of what I would give each race in ESO, trying my best to account for lore, game balance, uniqueness, and flavor, while also keeping every race useful for magicka and stamina builds. I took inspiration from the strengths of each race in Morrowind and Oblivion, as well as the Skyrim active abilities as well as current ESO passives. Each race should have a damage stat, a defensive passive or proc, and a sustain passive or proc, as well as some added utility or mobility as well. I know not all of these will be as useful for a healer or tank role, but I tried to include at least something for each race that would help those roles.

Let me know what you think!

Argonian

For Argonians, Resistance to disease has always been their thing in all TES games, as well as high speed stats. Hist regeneration is a flavorful ability from skyrim and makes for a nice defensive addition here. The resourceful passive is a unique way to sustain, and I feel that outweighs the annoyance of needing to drink potions.

1/1 Amphibian - 50% swim speed. 5% move speed.
3/3 Hist skin - Regenerate 10k health over 5 seconds when struck below 40% HP, this has a 30 second cooldown. 3500 Disease resistance, -30% duration on Diseased status effect.
3/3 Reptilian Claws - 6% Critical Chance
3/3 Resourceful - When drinking a potion, regenerate 3200 magicka and stamina.


Breton

For Bretons, they have always been the clear defensive magicka race. They have spell resist as their defensive passive, as well as sustain benefits from taking damage. This should provide more sustain than your average racial if damage intake is consistent. I'm not sure how powerful 10% buff duration would be, this number can obviously be tuned if thats too good for support roles.

1/1 Magicka Affinity - 15% extra experience gained for Light Armor and Restoration Staves. 10% duration increase on major and minor buffs you apply.
3/3 Resist Magicka - 3200 Spell resistance
3/3 Dragonskin - When taking damage, restore 600 magicka and stamina. 4 second cooldown.
3/3 Gift of Magnus - 230 Spell and Weapon Damage


Dunmer

Dunmer are all about their flame resistance, and also their history of being proficient in melee weapons and destruction magic. They also have very high speed stats. The Resource sustain from light and heavy attacks is designed to roughly equate to 250 recovery stats, but a little higher due to the need to be constantly attacking.

1/1 Well-Rounded - 15% extra experience gained for Destruction Stave and Dual Wield. 5% move speed.
3/3 Dynamic - 800 magicka and stamina. 98 spell and weapon damage. 3% critical chance.
3/3 Resist Fire - 3500 Flame Resistance. -30% duration on Burning status effect. -50% damage from environmental lava.
3/3 Balanced Attacks - 140 magicka and stamina restored on successful light attacks. This bonus is tripled on successful full charged heavy attacks.


Altmer

Highborn power from Skyrim gives Altmer a different way to sustain. The defensive trait here is all about damage shields and casting spells, but both can be utilized by stamina builds as well. Unique utility comes from being able to give others stronger shields.

1/1 Elemental Talent - 15% extra experience to Destruction Stave. 10% extra inspiration to Enchanting.
3/3 Highborn - When you fall below 50% of your dominant resource, gain 500 recovery to that resource for 10 seconds. 20 second cooldown.
3/3 Syrabane's Boon - 230 Spell and Weapon Damage.
3/3 Magicka Channeler - Take 6% less damage while channeling or casting a spell, or while you have a damage shield active on you. Damage shields you cast are 8% larger.


Imperial

Imperials have always been about personality, speechcraft, and also are known for fighting with sword and shield, as well as being trained in restoration magic. I tried to give them sustain, group sustain as their utility, and a balanced stat.

1/1 Diplomat - 1% extra alliance gains. 1% extra gold find.
3/3 Legion Training - 5% Damage reduction while blocking. 5% cost reduction to blocking, bashing, and dodging.
3/3 Versatile - 1100 Penetration. 98 Spell and Weapon Damage. 800 magicka and stamina.
3/3 Battle Healer - 4% Healing taken. Whenever you are healed, restore 300 magicka and stamina. Whenever you heal an ally, they restore 50 magicka and stamina. 3 second cooldown per target.


Khajiit

Jumping higher I'm not sure is even possible to implement, but I thought it was cool. Khajiits have always been the acrobatic burglar race, with high agility and skills in lockpicking. They also have catseye which makes sense for stealth detection.

1/1 Cutpurse - 10% extra experience to Legerdemain. 5% increased success chance at pickpocketing and forcing locks. Increases stealth detection slightly.
3/3 Lunar Blessings - 195 stamina and magicka regeneration.
3/3 Feline Claws - 12% critical damage and healing.
3/3 Natural Acrobat - Dodging reduces all damage taken by 6% for 6 seconds. You jump 20% higher.


Nord

Nords are high in strength and fortitude, so they get a pure damage stat as well as some health, the classic resistance to cold, and I couldn't take away their ultimate gen. For their sustain I gave them a straight cost reduction and a small increase to heavy attack restore because Nords take big swings!

1/1 Reveler - 15% extra experience to Two handed. Increased duration on Drinks and Food.
3/3 Heavy Strikes - 3200 Penetration
3/3 Resist Cold - 1500 Health. 3500 Frost Resist. -30% duration on Chilled Status effect.
3/3 Endurance - 6% cost reduction to stamina and magicka abilities. Heavy attacks restore 10% more resources. Generate 5 ultimate when taking damage. 10 second cooldown.


Orc

Orcs are also high strength and fortitude but they are also known for being proficient in heavy armor, and for being spiteful due to how their race was created. Also berserker rage is a fitting ability from skyrim, but I had to remove the damage taken portion. Some of these might be too strong but could be tuned.

1/1 Armorer - 15% extra experience for Heavy Armor. 10% extra inspiration to Blacksmithing.
3/3 Heavy Armor - 3200 Physical Resistance
3/3 Berserker Rage - 440 Weapon and Spell Damage for 5 seconds when taking damage or dealing a critical strike. 8 second cooldown.
3/3 Spiteful - 10% increased duration to major and minor debuffs you apply. Sustain passives from all Armor skills increased by 35%.


Redguard

Redguards are another Strength and fortitude Race. I wanted to keep their unique proficiency in weapon skills, but instead gave them a boost to weapon traits, making their damage racial a versatile one. Adrenalin Rush is a classic redguard ability, and in this case proccing from critical strikes just makes sense as far as triggering adrenalin.

1/1 Sword Singer - 15% extra experience to Two-Handed and Dual Wield.
3/3 Adrenalin Rush - After dealing or receiving a critical strike, restore 300 of your dominant resource every second for 10 seconds. 20 second cooldown. Sprinting costs 10% less.
3/3 Martial Training - Increases the effectiveness of Weapon traits by 40%. 1400 Penetration.
3/3 Desert Fortitude - 1500 Health. 320 Health recovery. 15% duration reduction to snares and root effects.


Bosmer

Ah Wood Elves. I wouldnt dare post a new racial idea without giving them their classic stealth skill increase. Also while they historically resist disease and poison, disease is already claimed, so poison it is. Their sustain passive is a % increase instead of a raw number to be different, hopefully with typical recovery numbers it comes out close to the same.

1/1 Natural Marksmen - 15% extra experience to Bows. 5% move speed.
3/3 Forest stalker - 3400 Poison Resistance. -30% duration on Poisoned Status effect. Fall damage reduced. Stealth skill increased slightly.
3/3 Agile Attacks - 3% critical chance. 6% critical damage and healing.
3/3 Blessing of Yffre - 12% increase to stamina and magicka recovery. You are healed for 4% of all damage you take from enemy attacks over 3 seconds.

BlueRaven

I like it all. Certainly better than the passives we have now.

My only thought is about Bosmers and disease resistance. They do eat meat most of the time and meat can go bad. It seems natural for them to have a disease resistant passive. But I get why you decided to not give them one as well.

Anyway, great job! .

Barto92

Race should be only just cosmetic. Period.

BixenteN7Akantor

I'd say switch Heavy Strikes from Nord with Heavy Armor from Orc. Nords look tankier and Orcs are known to be berzerking in combat :d

the1andonlyskwex

I'm not a fan.

To start, Argonian, Breton, Dunmer, and Bosmer all have combat bonuses in their 1/1 passives, while the other races don't.

Additionally, the sustain bonuses have serious balance issues. For example, the Imperial bonus would basically be P2W-level essential for healers, and the Dunmer bonus (140/sec, directly controlled by the player) is obviously more powerful than the Breton (125/sec, dependent on taking damage) bonus.

After noticing those issues I kind of stopped paying close attention to the rest.

In general, the biggest problem with current racial passives is the fact that sustain bonuses are basically useless in endgame activities. Fix that, and a whole bunch of balance problems go away. There's no need for a complete racial overhaul, especially considering how the community reacted to the last one (accusations that the changes were designed to sell race changes, demands for free race changes, constant and continuing whining about Bosmer stealth, etc.).

Shagreth

This is honestly great, current racials are boring. I wouldn't mind some active abilities mixed in, but it's difficult with the way eso handles things.

I would also like to see the ability to choose a deity, be it daedric or otherwise. Namira would allow you to consume corpses for resources or a buff etc. All that in a perfect world.

washbern

I would totally vote for a race passive overhaul but I have serious doubts that ZOS in its current state would make anything better.

They always chant their mantra of play the way you want but in serious content that is nothing but hot garbage. Yeah, racial passives are small buffs but why would I ever not be a dark elf if I enjoy both stam and mag builds? If I play Breton and decide to play a stam build its like "let me gimp myself on purpose, just because."

In the end I must go with just doing away with racial bonuses all together.

Stx

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm not a fan.

To start, Argonian, Breton, Dunmer, and Bosmer all have combat bonuses in their 1/1 passives, while the other races don't.

Additionally, the sustain bonuses have serious balance issues. For example, the Imperial bonus would basically be P2W-level essential for healers, and the Dunmer bonus (140/sec, directly controlled by the player) is obviously more powerful than the Breton (125/sec, dependent on taking damage) bonus.

After noticing those issues I kind of stopped paying close attention to the rest.

In general, the biggest problem with current racial passives is the fact that sustain bonuses are basically useless in endgame activities. Fix that, and a whole bunch of balance problems go away. There's no need for a complete racial overhaul, especially considering how the community reacted to the last one (accusations that the changes were designed to sell race changes, demands for free race changes, constant and continuing whining about Bosmer stealth, etc.).

Yeah I didn’t spend so much time doing maths for the specific numbers. They could obviously be tuned. That includes the utility numbers.

Agenericname

Stx wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm not a fan.

To start, Argonian, Breton, Dunmer, and Bosmer all have combat bonuses in their 1/1 passives, while the other races don't.

Additionally, the sustain bonuses have serious balance issues. For example, the Imperial bonus would basically be P2W-level essential for healers, and the Dunmer bonus (140/sec, directly controlled by the player) is obviously more powerful than the Breton (125/sec, dependent on taking damage) bonus.

After noticing those issues I kind of stopped paying close attention to the rest.

In general, the biggest problem with current racial passives is the fact that sustain bonuses are basically useless in endgame activities. Fix that, and a whole bunch of balance problems go away. There's no need for a complete racial overhaul, especially considering how the community reacted to the last one (accusations that the changes were designed to sell race changes, demands for free race changes, constant and continuing whining about Bosmer stealth, etc.).

Yeah I didn’t spend so much time doing maths for the specific numbers. They could obviously be tuned. That includes the utility numbers.

The passives seem fine, other than some balance issues. However, ZOS doesnt seem as interested in our solutions as they do our "pain points." You'll probably get more traction as far as seeing a change goes by addressing what it is about the current racial passives that you dont like.

Castagere

Nice too bad you aren't a dev. Love the Redguard change a lot. Change the name from sword dancer to sword singer as it's called in their lore.

MindOfTheSwarm

Some good ideas but the Magicka recovery when being healed on the Imperial is broken. One heal over time and I’m getting back tons of sustain. There would need to be a cool-down for such a passive.

rpa

Best prices everywhere including crown store, when the goblin race happens.

AnduinTryggva

I would not mind to have no specific race passivs at all, choice of race could be as well just optical or rpg. Though I guess there is a good reason not to go this way since some races would simply not be selected at all.

I however would prefer to be able to select a "job" or "trade". Only one possible of course but freely to select.

Could be "cleric", "legionary", "bard", "thieve", or whatever seems appropriate. It would give quite a few passives and two or three skills or so.

WuffyCerulei

I'd only change the crit damage on Khajiit to 8% critical rate. We once had it and were supposed to have both spell and weapon crit when Murkmire dropped. But people complained. The crit damage cap is fairly easy to hit too. Thanks people who complained about Khajiit being meta for 2 whole patches over the elves being meta for years.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

The existing race passives should be fixed first, e.g. the bosmer stealth.

Stx

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Some good ideas but the Magicka recovery when being healed on the Imperial is broken. One heal over time and I’m getting back tons of sustain. There would need to be a cool-down for such a passive.

I thought I did have a cooldown on it, but you’re right that one is probably Op compared to the others haha.

emilyhyoyeon

I agree that the way the current racials are done is very bad but honestly I'm not really liking most of these ideas.

I'm also really sick of argonian identity in ESO being like 50% based on one racial power from Skyrim. These are the bonuses argonians got in the previous games:
''intelligence, agility, and speed, any art involving the arcane, or involving thieving and sleight of hand, reduced Fatigue loss while swimming, +5 alchemy, +15 athletics, +5 illusion, +5 medium armor, +5 mysticism, +5 spear, +5 (light) armor, +5 alchemy, +10 athletics, +5 blade, +5 hand to hand, +5 illusion, +5 mysticism, +10 (lockpicking), +5 alteration, +5 (medium) armor, +5 pickpocketing, +5 restoration, +5 sneak, +10 lockpicking''

heavy emphasis on stealth, mobility, and on both physical and magical ability. Not weird regenerative stuff. They're rogue-based, not tank-based.

Holycannoli

These are much better than the bonuses we have now, especially Imperial and Redguard.

The guild XP thing though isn't necessary and might not even work. +10% XP for Mage's Guild whenever you find a book?

I think Imperials should have gotten the Breton alliance points bonus, seeing as how they're all about waging war and the current war is being fought in their homeland. Replace the guild bonus with +1% alliance points bonus and I'm in!

Stncold

Redguard changes actually look good. Which means ZOS will never do it because they'd rather buff DK's and khajiit racials instead of underperforming classes and races.

adyreonb14_ESO

Barto92 wrote: »

Race should be only just cosmetic. Period.

Exactly!

Araneae6537

I like some of your proposed changes, @Stx especially to Redguard, they need better passives. I agree with others who’ve pointed out that recovery on healing for Imperials would be OP.

I like the current reduced fall damage and increased movement speed for Bosmer. I don’t think resistance to either poison or disease is fitting or necessary, but definitely they need stealth back! So I’d be good with your proposed changes too.

100% agree with @emilyhyoyeon — the healing bonus/regeneration thing for Argonians is lame and not at all fitting. Resistances, yes, they should be resistant to disease and maybe poison too. The rest of the passives should be roguish in nature as you outlined.

Rasande_Robin

No, please don't.
Racials are fine as they are. Would rather have them stay semi-stable than ruined.

Billium813

I dislike most of the suggested changes.

I think there are only 2 realistic options for racial passives:

• Make them non-combat oriented
• Give players morphs so they can do what they want

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619345/racial-passives-and-hybridization

I am not in favor of altering the passives to be MORE necessary for combat. You're only forcing players to play a specific race depending on the build. Racial passives should be fun icing on the cake; players should never feel they are mandatory. You are just creating a FOMO and pigeonholing specific races into specific builds.

Stx

Billium813 wrote: »

I dislike most of the suggested changes.

I think there are only 2 realistic options for racial passives:

• Make them non-combat oriented
• Give players morphs so they can do what they want

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619345/racial-passives-and-hybridization

I am not in favor of altering the passives to be MORE necessary for combat. You're only forcing players to play a specific race depending on the build. Racial passives should be fun icing on the cake; players should never feel they are mandatory. You are just creating a FOMO and pigeonholing specific races into specific builds.

I don’t really understand anything here lol. Players are already forced to play certain races for certain builds. My ideas actually lowered the total number of dps stats for the top races and then made sure every race has some form of dps stat. And FOMO to me is like when they put an exclusive mount on the crown store that won’t be available for years, not sure how FOMO applies to racial passives.

I agree that removing combat racials in general would be healthy for the game. But that’s not really what this thread is about, just having some creative fun.

Anyways cheers

Billium813

Stx wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I dislike most of the suggested changes.

I think there are only 2 realistic options for racial passives:

• Make them non-combat oriented
• Give players morphs so they can do what they want

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619345/racial-passives-and-hybridization

I am not in favor of altering the passives to be MORE necessary for combat. You're only forcing players to play a specific race depending on the build. Racial passives should be fun icing on the cake; players should never feel they are mandatory. You are just creating a FOMO and pigeonholing specific races into specific builds.

I don’t really understand anything here lol. Players are already forced to play certain races for certain builds. My ideas actually lowered the total number of dps stats for the top races and then made sure every race has some form of dps stat. And FOMO to me is like when they put an exclusive mount on the crown store that won’t be available for years, not sure how FOMO applies to racial passives.

I agree that removing combat racials in general would be healthy for the game. But that’s not really what this thread is about, just having some creative fun.

Anyways cheers

Players shouldn't be forced to play a specific race for a certain build to begin with. You're advocating changes to the racial passives here, that's what this thread sounds like it's targeted for! So why not just get rid of them then?! You make it sound like it has to be that way for... reasons?

It doesn't matter how evenly you think you spread the DPS stats around between the racial passives, you are still making players have to consider what race they should be, for future combat reasons, at level 1. When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be thinking is "ok, this is gonna be a magic Sorc for PvP, I better make it a Nord for that sweet sweet 3200 penetration that will help later!". New players aren't gonna know ANYTHING about that stuff. By adding that layer of stats, via race, you are creating a fear in new players that they may pick the wrong race for what they end up playing. Your upping the barrier of entry into the game and designing a beginner player, level 1 system for end game players.

When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be doing is worrying that they are choosing "the right race". They are just starting their adventure! They should be able to see the basic buffs and and have a basic understanding of what they might mean (like fall damage, or food buffs, or gold gain, or pickpocketing, not 1200 Penetration or 240 Spell Damage, or "when you are healed, gain ..."). They should feel comfortable in the fact that those racial buffs won't REALLY matter much; iow, they are more for flavor and charm. And when they do end up mattering to the player, it should be fun and immersive.

For instance, the group jumps off a cliff and the Bosmer survives. Fun. When the Argonian swims laps around the rest of the group in Fungal Grotto or Blackheart Haven. Fun. None of these are that important, they are thematic and fun when they come up. Otherwise, they aren't that impactful and no one worries over if they picked the right one at level 1.

the1andonlyskwex

Billium813 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I dislike most of the suggested changes.

I think there are only 2 realistic options for racial passives:

• Make them non-combat oriented
• Give players morphs so they can do what they want

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619345/racial-passives-and-hybridization

I am not in favor of altering the passives to be MORE necessary for combat. You're only forcing players to play a specific race depending on the build. Racial passives should be fun icing on the cake; players should never feel they are mandatory. You are just creating a FOMO and pigeonholing specific races into specific builds.

I don’t really understand anything here lol. Players are already forced to play certain races for certain builds. My ideas actually lowered the total number of dps stats for the top races and then made sure every race has some form of dps stat. And FOMO to me is like when they put an exclusive mount on the crown store that won’t be available for years, not sure how FOMO applies to racial passives.

I agree that removing combat racials in general would be healthy for the game. But that’s not really what this thread is about, just having some creative fun.

Anyways cheers

Players shouldn't be forced to play a specific race for a certain build to begin with. You're advocating changes to the racial passives here, that's what this thread sounds like it's targeted for! So why not just get rid of them then?! You make it sound like it has to be that way for... reasons?

It doesn't matter how evenly you think you spread the DPS stats around between the racial passives, you are still making players have to consider what race they should be, for future combat reasons, at level 1. When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be thinking is "ok, this is gonna be a magic Sorc for PvP, I better make it a Nord for that sweet sweet 3200 penetration that will help later!". New players aren't gonna know ANYTHING about that stuff. By adding that layer of stats, via race, you are creating a fear in new players that they may pick the wrong race for what they end up playing. Your upping the barrier of entry into the game and designing a beginner player, level 1 system for end game players.

When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be doing is worrying that they are choosing "the right race". They are just starting their adventure! They should be able to see the basic buffs and and have a basic understanding of what they might mean (like fall damage, or food buffs, or gold gain, or pickpocketing, not 1200 Penetration or 240 Spell Damage, or "when you are healed, gain ..."). They should feel comfortable in the fact that those racial buffs won't REALLY matter much; iow, they are more for flavor and charm. And when they do end up mattering to the player, it should be fun and immersive.

For instance, the group jumps off a cliff and the Bosmer survives. Fun. When the Argonian swims laps around the rest of the group in Fungal Grotto or Blackheart Haven. Fun. None of these are that important, they are thematic and fun when they come up. Otherwise, they aren't that impactful and no one worries over if they picked the right one at level 1.

I'm generally in favor of races having at least some sort of combat bonuses, but this is easily the best argument I've seen to the contrary.

Kisakee

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

In general, the biggest problem with current racial passives is the fact that sustain bonuses are basically useless in endgame activities.

Spoken like a true DD who never even bothered playing Tank or Healer. Stop thinking you're the only role that matters while you're only 1/3 of it.

Billium813

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I dislike most of the suggested changes.

I think there are only 2 realistic options for racial passives:

• Make them non-combat oriented
• Give players morphs so they can do what they want

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619345/racial-passives-and-hybridization

I am not in favor of altering the passives to be MORE necessary for combat. You're only forcing players to play a specific race depending on the build. Racial passives should be fun icing on the cake; players should never feel they are mandatory. You are just creating a FOMO and pigeonholing specific races into specific builds.

I don’t really understand anything here lol. Players are already forced to play certain races for certain builds. My ideas actually lowered the total number of dps stats for the top races and then made sure every race has some form of dps stat. And FOMO to me is like when they put an exclusive mount on the crown store that won’t be available for years, not sure how FOMO applies to racial passives.

I agree that removing combat racials in general would be healthy for the game. But that’s not really what this thread is about, just having some creative fun.

Anyways cheers

Players shouldn't be forced to play a specific race for a certain build to begin with. You're advocating changes to the racial passives here, that's what this thread sounds like it's targeted for! So why not just get rid of them then?! You make it sound like it has to be that way for... reasons?

It doesn't matter how evenly you think you spread the DPS stats around between the racial passives, you are still making players have to consider what race they should be, for future combat reasons, at level 1. When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be thinking is "ok, this is gonna be a magic Sorc for PvP, I better make it a Nord for that sweet sweet 3200 penetration that will help later!". New players aren't gonna know ANYTHING about that stuff. By adding that layer of stats, via race, you are creating a fear in new players that they may pick the wrong race for what they end up playing. Your upping the barrier of entry into the game and designing a beginner player, level 1 system for end game players.

When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be doing is worrying that they are choosing "the right race". They are just starting their adventure! They should be able to see the basic buffs and and have a basic understanding of what they might mean (like fall damage, or food buffs, or gold gain, or pickpocketing, not 1200 Penetration or 240 Spell Damage, or "when you are healed, gain ..."). They should feel comfortable in the fact that those racial buffs won't REALLY matter much; iow, they are more for flavor and charm. And when they do end up mattering to the player, it should be fun and immersive.

For instance, the group jumps off a cliff and the Bosmer survives. Fun. When the Argonian swims laps around the rest of the group in Fungal Grotto or Blackheart Haven. Fun. None of these are that important, they are thematic and fun when they come up. Otherwise, they aren't that impactful and no one worries over if they picked the right one at level 1.

I'm generally in favor of races having at least some sort of combat bonuses, but this is easily the best argument I've seen to the contrary.

Sure, some players do need some kind of hook based on combat when choosing characters. I think the +15% experience gains from specific skill lines is perfect for that. It matters for new players at the beginning, and tapers off to not matter at all later. It can give a new player a possible direction they might want to go, while given a bit of race lore, but ultimately doesn't matter much. Orcs can have better experience gains with Heavy Armor, Bosmer with Bows, Dunmer with Destro Staves, ect ect.

AcadianPaladin

I want race selection to offer exactly as much combat help as my gender selection (zero). Cosmetic only please.

Failing that, the ideas in the first post seem better than the current situation. I will only play Bosmer and most of them are mages so I appreciate that the OP's suggestions are not based on pushing races into mag or stam boxes. As long as Bosmer remain BiS for cute, I'm good.

the1andonlyskwex

Kisakee wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

In general, the biggest problem with current racial passives is the fact that sustain bonuses are basically useless in endgame activities.

Spoken like a true DD who never even bothered playing Tank or Healer. Stop thinking you're the only role that matters while you're only 1/3 of it.

I play healer 99% of the time. It doesn't change the fact that sustain is way too easy for DDs, who make up something like 80% of players.
Also, it's not exactly like Argonians, Redguards, Bretons, or Bosmer are undisputedly top tier races for tanks or healers either. Even support roles often benefit more from something other than sustain.

Ideally, sustain would be nerfed to the point where DDs actually need to build for sustain and supports need to build more selfishly (for sustain or other reasons) instead of just being buff-bots for DDs.

Araneae6537

Billium813 wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I dislike most of the suggested changes.

I think there are only 2 realistic options for racial passives:

• Make them non-combat oriented
• Give players morphs so they can do what they want

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619345/racial-passives-and-hybridization

I am not in favor of altering the passives to be MORE necessary for combat. You're only forcing players to play a specific race depending on the build. Racial passives should be fun icing on the cake; players should never feel they are mandatory. You are just creating a FOMO and pigeonholing specific races into specific builds.

I don’t really understand anything here lol. Players are already forced to play certain races for certain builds. My ideas actually lowered the total number of dps stats for the top races and then made sure every race has some form of dps stat. And FOMO to me is like when they put an exclusive mount on the crown store that won’t be available for years, not sure how FOMO applies to racial passives.

I agree that removing combat racials in general would be healthy for the game. But that’s not really what this thread is about, just having some creative fun.

Anyways cheers

Players shouldn't be forced to play a specific race for a certain build to begin with. You're advocating changes to the racial passives here, that's what this thread sounds like it's targeted for! So why not just get rid of them then?! You make it sound like it has to be that way for... reasons?

It doesn't matter how evenly you think you spread the DPS stats around between the racial passives, you are still making players have to consider what race they should be, for future combat reasons, at level 1. When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be thinking is "ok, this is gonna be a magic Sorc for PvP, I better make it a Nord for that sweet sweet 3200 penetration that will help later!". New players aren't gonna know ANYTHING about that stuff. By adding that layer of stats, via race, you are creating a fear in new players that they may pick the wrong race for what they end up playing. Your upping the barrier of entry into the game and designing a beginner player, level 1 system for end game players.

When a player is creating a character and choosing a race, the last thing they should be doing is worrying that they are choosing "the right race". They are just starting their adventure! They should be able to see the basic buffs and and have a basic understanding of what they might mean (like fall damage, or food buffs, or gold gain, or pickpocketing, not 1200 Penetration or 240 Spell Damage, or "when you are healed, gain ..."). They should feel comfortable in the fact that those racial buffs won't REALLY matter much; iow, they are more for flavor and charm. And when they do end up mattering to the player, it should be fun and immersive.

For instance, the group jumps off a cliff and the Bosmer survives. Fun. When the Argonian swims laps around the rest of the group in Fungal Grotto or Blackheart Haven. Fun. None of these are that important, they are thematic and fun when they come up. Otherwise, they aren't that impactful and no one worries over if they picked the right one at level 1.

I'm generally in favor of races having at least some sort of combat bonuses, but this is easily the best argument I've seen to the contrary.

Sure, some players do need some kind of hook based on combat when choosing characters. I think the +15% experience gains from specific skill lines is perfect for that. It matters for new players at the beginning, and tapers off to not matter at all later. It can give a new player a possible direction they might want to go, while given a bit of race lore, but ultimately doesn't matter much. Orcs can have better experience gains with Heavy Armor, Bosmer with Bows, Dunmer with Destro Staves, ect ect.

You make very good points. I am used to TES games having racial bonuses, but of course it doesn’t matter in a single-player game. Better to have race be purely cosmetic or only give an XP bonus which won’t matter once the skill gets to 50. It would be fun to have more flavor bonuses that the player could then choose from and change, like how I had thought Champion Points were going to be…