How do you take a nerf?

Pinja

So I'm a pvp player. The course of this games development has turned away from my player base astronomically. But every play style has lost potency in some regard over the years. In addition to what I hear is going to be necro's big nerf coming sometime this year.

Pay to win classes am I right, can't love'em can't hate'em. Arcanist (FTW), R.I.P Necro

A harsh reality to the mathematics of any damage nerf is that it takes substantially more investment to compensate a baseline nerf. Where a 30% damage nerf requires a 43% damage buff to compensate. With buffs like major berserk going from 25% to 10%, its become an annoying realization to me, I can spend hours each patch adjusting builds and using gold mats just to end up weaker than I used to be. I think any old player can tell you we hit a harder more potent wreaking blow in 2016, not wearing a set in blue armor, than we do with today's mythics and and damage sets.

Around 15-22k hits

So my questions to you guys is how do you take nerfs?

I personally take long breaks from the game. Also roaming from other aspects of the game like PvE, housing, and trading not worrying about combat. But when I try to experiment, craft, and get back into pvp, even when I crunch out a way to hit good numbers a disappointing patch soon follows.

OBJnoob

I play a variety of characters and get bored easily, so I look at nerfs and buffs as a chance to play something else for a while.

I wouldn't call it meta chasing, but if something feels SO bad then I just don't play it. For example I've got a stamsorc I've always loved but in the last year I just haven't been able to make it work very well. I will probably try it when the next patch drops on console, to see about the health scaling shields.

And if I were a necro (which I'm not because I never bought it,) I'm quite sure I'd be preparing to shelf it for a while.

It never really upsets me that much. I have a fondness for several of my toons, not just one.

disintegr8

Initial questions sound like 'How do you take a number 2?'

Same answer applies to both, #@it happens, deal with it and move on.

SkaraMinoc

I think they're a healthy part of the game.

Some nerfs needs to happen. The Simmering Frenzy 500k parses. The Stam Sorc 1shot build. Those shouldn't have existed.

Power creep is also a thing and needs to be reined in.

Nerfing old sets is unfortunate but encourages players to use the new sets from the latest Chapter and DLCs. Same for skills and classes. They need to incentivize players to pay for new content. Otherwise there's no point in investing in the development and marketing of new content. Why would I play the new Arcanist class if other classes are stronger?

It's a necessary evil.

phaneub17_ESO

disintegr8 wrote: »

Initial questions sound like 'How do you take a number 2?'

Violently, its a disaster zone when I'm done. Oh that wasn't an actual question...

Soarora

not well

Some things are necessary, making it impossible for my vampire build to even work and destroying my warden's DPS were not necessary and I did not take either of those things well whatsoever.

rabidmyers

no "couldn't care less i just go with the flow" option?

Turtle_Bot

Some nerfs need to happen because unintended interactions are always being found, but it also depends on how things are nerfed, currently it is very heavy handed when all it needs is a slight adjustment or a fix instead of an actual nerf.

Short of it, nerfs are healthy to maintain balance, but they need to be done with care and consideration. I.e. use a scalpel, not a sledge hammer.

RaddlemanNumber7

I stopped doing PvP because my one PvP character was gradually nerfed into uselessness. Now, I couldn't [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

VaranisArano

I think they're a healthy part of the game.

They can be a healthy part of the game. Frequently they are, though expecting the nerfed players to admit it is usually a bridge too far.

In PVE, ZOS has to periodically nerf power creep in order to keep content from becoming obsolete. In PVP, ZOS has to periodically nerf players so gameplay stays dynamic and doesn't become boring.

On the flip side, there can be reasons for nerfs that fall flat.
1. ZOS keeps adding power creep in the form of Mythic Items and powerful new sets, then clawing back that power in nerfs. Feels bad, man.
2. ZOS historically nerfed the existing classes to make room for Wardens and Necromancers to shine. I won't know if that's what's happening now until we see the Arcanist, but I'll say that getting nerfed for Wardens felt bad, man.
3. Nerfs that hit people when they're already down. We can usually agree with "the tallest poppy gets cut," but it's a lot more inexplicable when an underperformed class gets nerfed or when players who aren't at the top tier see their progression runs hit harder by nerfs. Even when the nerfs accomplish ZOS' goals for shaking up gameplay and reducing power creep, it feels bad, man.

My two cents, anyways.

haelgaan

I hate them

a nerf means that the design and testing for the item was incompetent/incomplete. game designer should know their game well enough and test the new items well enough to predict/detect these issues. the fact that there are so damn many nerfs makes pretty clear the level of incompetent and lack of investment in that aspect of game design

AcadianPaladin

I hate them

My biggest frustration with ESO is the repetitive and usually circular nerf updates applied with an overly heavy hand and largely ignoring input from the PTS cycle. The frustration comes from the feeling of building my character on a foundation of shifting sands.

How old is this game? If it is not balanced by now, it is clear the process being used does not work. No balance changes would be no worse and, in some ways, better. Balancing PvP and PvE separately might be an appropriate starting point if seeking a more successful path.

chessalavakia_ESO

not well

Honestly, it varies a bit but, overall I would generally say not well.

In theory, nerfing in games helps ensure the game provides a good overall experience. Sometimes, the character/build you play will get hit and that might stink a bit but much of the time it will be something else that gets hit to be balanced out which will make the experience better for you.

In practice, it feels like many of the balance changes in games are either to spice things up or to address a concern for the top few % of the players in the game.

This presents a problem for people like myself that are a bit on the boring side and that aren't withing the top few % of the game. (The top few % in games in turn tend to run into the issue that the developers struggle to actually produce a balanced result for them as they can potentially be better than the developers, they have more time to invest than the developers, and the developers frequently don't get many shots at dealing with problems.)

In most of the games I play I generally produce the amount of variety I desire via running multiple characters/builds besides my main so that I don't end up getting bored. As a result, I'm not really a big fan of the artificial shake ups of significant balance swings just to make things change as the amount of changes frequently exceeds the amount I desire.

The concerns that are being addressed are frequently not things that concern me which in turn means that I am not gaining a benefit from the nerfs that don't hit me. This removes much of the positive from the nerf equation. The negative part of the nerf can still end up impacting me even though the problems the changes are intended to address aren't necessarily issues at my skill level. Sometimes, you'll hit situations where the developers hit the concerns specifically enough that the players they don't apply to don't even notice or they'll hit issues that are across the board but, in most of the games I've played that's been rare.

MidniteOwl1913

I don't PVP., but PVP complaints are a major source of game nerfs (balance thy name is PVE nerf) so I would prefer they are content.

Brrrofski

well

I play PvP 90% of the time.

I have all classes levelled and fleshed out.

I've played every class a fair amount in PvP.

So while it's annoying that some classes might end up terrible, I can always play something else for a bit.

It's not necessarily the meta that I'll play, just might avoid whichever class is bad that patch.

MindOfTheSwarm

You should have added “Depends” as an option. Because in reality it really does depend. Some nerfs were not needed and counter productive. Ground DoT’s being a good example. While others such as proc sets are understandable. The game evolves as time goes on. Some classes lose out while others gain. Magden’s and NB are in an excellent spot right now in terms of DPS. While DK, Temp and NB are great in PvP. Sorc… yeah they need some love back. Necro does need a bit of love too, but I don’t think the Necro question is one of nerfs or buffs, but rather a reworking of some redundant morphs and skills so the class feels a bit smoother and offers other ways to play other than “blow stuff up with skeletons.” I know Necro fans like BB but I find it very clunky. Don’t get me started on the Skull. The Necro question deserves its own Q and A.

But then again some things need nerfs. Knock up stuns in PvP are cancer which is why Dragon Leap usually means death 9 times out of ten. And why Volcanic Rune/Dark Convergence combos are dime a dozen these days.

MEBengalsFan2001

I think they're a healthy part of the game.

NERF is a term over used in every MMO game I have played. The thing is the developers are not NERFING a class on the sole purpose of making it inferior. They are adjusting the class because it is over performing when compared to other classes. Developers should be using data to drive adjustments to ensure that the changes made are truly improving the class.

For ESO I don't think they are doing that one bit. Templars are underperforming yet didn't get any good buff and DK which are overperforming got another buff.

In other game I have played the devs communicated when they over or under adjusted a class and provided a date of when a fix will be released. Adjustments that made a class not playable at all or so over tuned the class that it became the only class to use, those issues were resolved rather quickly to ensure fair and better game play.

As someone that is tired of being hit by 7K+ concealed weapons, 10K+ whips, and being constantly frozen I been spending more time in other games that I find are much more enjoyable. Only time I play now is on Sunday when it is PVP Sunday for my guild. And even that is starting to wear on my patience given that yesterday there was not one but three groups all NB attacking one keep.

Vevvev

Meh, I'll adapt.

Narvuntien

I think they're a healthy part of the game.

^ I'll adapt.

as a gank-blade I have been nerfed half a dozen times now. The first time sucked after that I got used to it.

AdamLAD

I think they're a healthy part of the game.

Love them. Because when people get nerfed and can't do jack anymore but you can it's satisfyingly excellent and people are in wonder at how your doing it. Prefer buffs tho 🤣.

Dr_Con

I certainly don't react like actor Meryl Streep does in Sophie's Choice when her baby gets taken away like some others have.

Necrotech_Master

well

i dont play meta, and in some cases way off meta, so every time in the past ive heard that oh theres gonna be a big nerf here big nerf there, my characters usually either function the same, or come out slightly better because of the change

my main character has been using leeching plate + brands of the imperium almost since IC released (probably 2016) (background on that i heavily farmed IC so got both sets of gear using entirely key frags so i didnt have to run the dungeons lol) (also note, this is not a pvp character, mainly set up as a pve tank/dps)

U35 was another one, my main dps toon is a stam templar, but with the way that i play the character my dmg actually went up after that update (im not entirely a fan of the spear change, but thats cosmetic)

Opalblade

Depends on the nerf. If something that is obviously overperforming gets nerfed, I usually handle it pretty well even if it was something I enjoyed using a lot. There are times though when things seem to get nerfed just for the sake of nerfing, things that no one ever even complained about before said nerfs. Or when, rather than just being nerfed, a fun ability has its mechanic changed into something considerably less fun. In either of those cases, I do not handle it as well and have even stopped playing certain characters for long periods of time because I just didn't find them enjoyable anymore.