Reduce the damage gap between purple and gold weapons

I_killed_Vivec

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

haelgaan wrote: »

gold mats are runaway crazy stupid expensive now, at least on PC. I'd rather see ZOS increase the supply of gold mats to reduce the market pricing, than to change the game mechanics

The problem is that they have increase the supply of gold mats and increase chances of getting them overtime, but the prices keep going up. That's a community problem that ZOS can't really do anything about, unless they really want to add a new feature that would destroy the community's economy (such as removing guild traders in favor of a central exchange place).

I could solve the problem in an instant, see my above post for context.

Remove gold currency rewards from crafting writs, and increase gold mat drop rate slightly to compensate.

What would happen?

Well, for people like myself that are swimming in both gold currency and gold mats, now my easy supply of gold currency is turned off. This does two things. One, it would be a much needed source of downward pressure on inflation, because there is less new currency entering the economy every day. That alone would reduce prices. But also, it would be an incentive for me to sell the thousands of gold mats in my crafting bag when I need gold that I no longer easily get every day, which increases supply and lowers price. Also the increase in gold mat drop rate as compensation is also an increase in supply and a downward pressure on prices.

The problem we have now is that the best source of gold mats is also the best source of printing new gold currency (crafting writs), so the people with the gold mats have no incentive to sell them. I have thousands of gold mats and millions and millions of gold currency, far more than I need, and pretty much all is from writs.

Selling my excess gold mats makes no sense whatsoever. Its the real life equivalent of keeping all your wealth in your 0% interest checking account. If I log off for 3 months, the amount of gold in my bank doesn't change, but the value of my gold mats will absolutely increase. If I didn't get gold currency from writs rewards, I would be required to sell my excess mats when I need an influx of currency. I have NEVER sold a gold mat in all my time in ESO because it is financially a foolish decision as long as my gold currency supply is meeting my needs, and thanks to gold currency from writs, it always does.

Would it be a popular move at first? No, people would rage, but it would go a long way to solving both the broader inflation issue and the more specific issue of gold mat prices being through the roof.

I am in a similar situation, but even if writs gave no gold I don't think it would affect me so much that I'd need to start selling off tempers in significant amounts (occasionally I sell some, but only if I see value in the market, and that isn't often).

But take away the gold from writs and there would be people complaining that you took their money from them, how are they supposed to make some gold?

TaSheen

For me, the "outlier" is Iridium, always has been. I've got the other three coming out my ears. And no, sorry, I never sell upgrade materials.

zaria

Tandor wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

If none of you even use purple weapons, why does it bother you if purple weapons are made better? And literally why are people claiming this is a nerf thread when I explicitly asked for buffs?

Because it's effectively nerfing gold gear.

No because ZoS using their standard operational procedure will not buff purple but nerf gold weapons down to 5% above purple.
This will drop the cost of gold weapon tempers with around 20% so everyone looses.

Do not ask ZoS for nerfs, its like asking for close air support from a death star.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kargen27 wrote: »

"Well, for people like myself that are swimming in both gold currency and gold mats, now my easy supply of gold currency is turned off. "

and those new to the game, how do they go about making gold? Early in the game that bit of gold revenue really helps.

You sell the gold mats you get from doing writs. You don't need a trader to sell gold mats. List them in zone chat at a reasonable price and they will sell instantly.

Let's be honest, most brand new players aren't doing crafting writs. Its usually something you pick up after you have been playing a bit. Plenty of ways to make a bit of gold early on. I had a few mil in the bank before I ever touched a crafting writ.

Where crafting writs get exploited is when people start doing them on 12-18 toons every day. I know that because I did it for years. Its an absurd amount of currency that gets dumped into the economy. Its why inflation is so much more prevalent on PC than console, its way easier to do writs on PC and print money out of thin air. Want to cause inflation? Start printing money.

Kappachi

As a trader who is hardcore into the economy of this game, this would be a ruination of the economy. It doesn't need to be closed, gold is supposed to be the highest level because it is so much more powerful than purple, and closing the purple gap to make it closer to gold would be a huge nerf to gold gear and kill one of the big trading markets in the game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

haelgaan wrote: »

gold mats are runaway crazy stupid expensive now, at least on PC. I'd rather see ZOS increase the supply of gold mats to reduce the market pricing, than to change the game mechanics

The problem is that they have increase the supply of gold mats and increase chances of getting them overtime, but the prices keep going up. That's a community problem that ZOS can't really do anything about, unless they really want to add a new feature that would destroy the community's economy (such as removing guild traders in favor of a central exchange place).

I could solve the problem in an instant, see my above post for context.

Remove gold currency rewards from crafting writs, and increase gold mat drop rate slightly to compensate.

What would happen?

Well, for people like myself that are swimming in both gold currency and gold mats, now my easy supply of gold currency is turned off. This does two things. One, it would be a much needed source of downward pressure on inflation, because there is less new currency entering the economy every day. That alone would reduce prices. But also, it would be an incentive for me to sell the thousands of gold mats in my crafting bag when I need gold that I no longer easily get every day, which increases supply and lowers price. Also the increase in gold mat drop rate as compensation is also an increase in supply and a downward pressure on prices.

The problem we have now is that the best source of gold mats is also the best source of printing new gold currency (crafting writs), so the people with the gold mats have no incentive to sell them. I have thousands of gold mats and millions and millions of gold currency, far more than I need, and pretty much all is from writs.

Selling my excess gold mats makes no sense whatsoever. Its the real life equivalent of keeping all your wealth in your 0% interest checking account. If I log off for 3 months, the amount of gold in my bank doesn't change, but the value of my gold mats will absolutely increase. If I didn't get gold currency from writs rewards, I would be required to sell my excess mats when I need an influx of currency. I have NEVER sold a gold mat in all my time in ESO because it is financially a foolish decision as long as my gold currency supply is meeting my needs, and thanks to gold currency from writs, it always does.

Would it be a popular move at first? No, people would rage, but it would go a long way to solving both the broader inflation issue and the more specific issue of gold mat prices being through the roof.

I am in a similar situation, but even if writs gave no gold I don't think it would affect me so much that I'd need to start selling off tempers in significant amounts (occasionally I sell some, but only if I see value in the market, and that isn't often).

But take away the gold from writs and there would be people complaining that you took their money from them, how are they supposed to make some gold?

It might not affect the old timers like us as much, but I still spend gold in this game. I have a minimum level I try not to go below, and when I do, I do more writs to build it back up. If writs didnt provide gold, then when my gold gets low, I would need to sell mats.

If you are new to writs, well, it just incentivizes you early on to be sure you are selling the mats you need to sell to have the gold to buy the stuff you need to buy.

There is also probably a very reasonable middle ground here. Cut the gold by half and see what happens. Remember, I also suggest increasing the gold mat drop rate to compensate for the loss of currency, so the total reward is still there, it just strongly incentivizes participation in the markets. Something the current system is lousy at doing.

TaSheen

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

katanagirl1

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

I do participate in the game markets and do crafting writs on several toons and I’m not a new player. My main source of gold is the daily crafting writs since furnishing plan drop rates in the current zone (whichever it happens to be) is so astronomically low that I can’t get enough duplicates to sell.

Don’t take that income away from me.

Northwold

I don't trade, but I don't understand why you would want to downgrade gold gear or upgrade purple gear.

I am an actually casual player (ie not "I only play six times a week", which some people here seem to think is "casual", but "sometimes I play once a month"). I don't run multiple characters, I really can't be bothered with crafting writs, and I'm not so obsessed with the game that I'm going to get a robot addon to run crafting writs every day just so I have money. And I have been highly critical of the grind elements of this game on the forum.

I'm very, very critical of, for instance, the vast gap between lower champion point levels, at which point you can cruise through almost all PvE overland content, and higher champion point levels that allow you, for example, to solo dungeons. In between, playing solo, there is a near endless wilderness of grind where the stuff you can do is so easy it's tiresome, but the stuff you can't is so hard you can't even attempt it.

But gold gear simply isn't one of those things. There is a path to get it and it takes a bit of time, but it is far from difficult to obtain by refining, crafting and the occasional purchase from a trader of material where you're running a bit short. I think the only times I have felt a need to hunt down gold gear itself at a trader have been when I've been one item short in a set and don't have the energy to run around the world trying to farm it. Even then, I wouldn't normally buy it gold but upgrade it myself.

And without the gap in values between gold and purple, you will just reach the game's doldrums even faster. It would make character progression *less fun* because you'd even more quickly reach the point where the only thing you have left to do is grind and grind and grind until your champion points allow you to do something more interesting.

What the OP seems to be asking for is a way to be able to access what would amount in practice to the best gear of any set at any time for no cost, rather than deciding which gear, specifically, they want to focus on and choosing to improve only that gear. That would just make the game flat and boring, with everyone maximum levelled in, effectively, anything they like whenever they like.

It's one of those things, like levitation in Morrowind or chameleon in Oblivion (or Skyrim -- can't remember), where it sounds fun but in reality would hurt the effort-reward loop that is essential to making games entertaining.

Jammy420

No. They are that powerful because it takes work to make them that powerful.

Non issue.

Haenk

Honestly, I would like to see a much larger gap - and larger costs.
Maybe even introduce one or two new higher levels beyond gold.

Having a long term goal that is not easy to reach makes the game much more fun, trust me.

Heartrage

I see a lot of people that don’t want gold to be nerfed and I agree. However, reducing the gap between the two quality of items could also be achieved by making purple stronger.

Personally, I don’t think it’s that important. Purple gear is strong enough to do 90% of all content and you can try your build in purple quality before choosing to gold it if you like it.

Lumenn

As I said earlier, the gap between purple and gold should be widened. The difference, with the exception of weapons, is minor to a ridiculous level. Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if zos "gave us what we asked for" and instead of boosting gold gear/jewelry we end up with nerfed purple. Let's be careful of how hard we're wishing on this monkeys paw that we call the forums.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

To be frank, I don't think we should be balancing the game around people that don't participate in the economy.

And lets also be clear. If you don't participate in the markets, you don't need gold, unless you literally only buy things from NPC merchants, which is doubtful. You do participate in the markets, you just do it in a one sided manner. This is why we have rampant inflation, especially on PC.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

I do participate in the game markets and do crafting writs on several toons and I’m not a new player. My main source of gold is the daily crafting writs since furnishing plan drop rates in the current zone (whichever it happens to be) is so astronomically low that I can’t get enough duplicates to sell.

Don’t take that income away from me.

Again, I said it would not be a popular decision, but it would be good for the economy. I am not suggesting taking away your income, I am suggesting that perhaps its not unreasonable for someone to list some of their gold mats in zone chat or a trader to capture said income, again, I am suggesting the gold mat rewards be increased to compensate. Crafting writs are the number one reason we have rampant inflation on PC. It is simply too easy to print money out of thin air, and because there is so much gold coming in, it incentives people that have gold mats to hoard them.

I would also suggest that if they eliminate or at least reduce the gold currency reward, it is balanced differently on console. Its not nearly as much of an issue there. On PC, writs have destroyed our economy.

TaSheen

Sorry, I'm not going to use zone chat for anything, cesspool that it is. So no, I'm not going to hawk anything there. I USE my gold mats myself, I'm not interested in selling them for the gold I've always been able to make in other ways.

Personally I have no issue with PC's economy.

Northwold

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

To be frank, I don't think we should be balancing the game around people that don't participate in the economy.

And lets also be clear. If you don't participate in the markets, you don't need gold, unless you literally only buy things from NPC merchants, which is doubtful. You do participate in the markets, you just do it in a one sided manner. This is why we have rampant inflation, especially on PC.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

I do participate in the game markets and do crafting writs on several toons and I’m not a new player. My main source of gold is the daily crafting writs since furnishing plan drop rates in the current zone (whichever it happens to be) is so astronomically low that I can’t get enough duplicates to sell.

Don’t take that income away from me.

Again, I said it would not be a popular decision, but it would be good for the economy. I am not suggesting taking away your income, I am suggesting that perhaps its not unreasonable for someone to list some of their gold mats in zone chat or a trader to capture said income, again, I am suggesting the gold mat rewards be increased to compensate. Crafting writs are the number one reason we have rampant inflation on PC. It is simply too easy to print money out of thin air, and because there is so much gold coming in, it incentives people that have gold mats to hoard them.

I would also suggest that if they eliminate or at least reduce the gold currency reward, it is balanced differently on console. Its not nearly as much of an issue there. On PC, writs have destroyed our economy.

Given the very widely spread dislike of the trader economy seen here and (much more prominently) elsewhere in social media, including the apparently huge number of people who refuse to participate in it at all, on the contrary I *do* think 'we' should be balancing the game around people who don't participate in the economy. Because the economy, as set up, completely ignores a very substantial subset of the player base (and quite possibly the majority of it).

You rightly point out that that leads to players only participating from the buy side. You can address that by removing barriers on the sell side.

Crafting writs really shouldn't be the way to do that, though, but instead a complete rethink of the linkage between traders and player-controlled guilds and / or the creation of proper mechanics for players who don't want to sell via guild traders to access the economy, rather than the joke solution of spamming chat.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Northwold wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

To be frank, I don't think we should be balancing the game around people that don't participate in the economy.

And lets also be clear. If you don't participate in the markets, you don't need gold, unless you literally only buy things from NPC merchants, which is doubtful. You do participate in the markets, you just do it in a one sided manner. This is why we have rampant inflation, especially on PC.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

I do participate in the game markets and do crafting writs on several toons and I’m not a new player. My main source of gold is the daily crafting writs since furnishing plan drop rates in the current zone (whichever it happens to be) is so astronomically low that I can’t get enough duplicates to sell.

Don’t take that income away from me.

Again, I said it would not be a popular decision, but it would be good for the economy. I am not suggesting taking away your income, I am suggesting that perhaps its not unreasonable for someone to list some of their gold mats in zone chat or a trader to capture said income, again, I am suggesting the gold mat rewards be increased to compensate. Crafting writs are the number one reason we have rampant inflation on PC. It is simply too easy to print money out of thin air, and because there is so much gold coming in, it incentives people that have gold mats to hoard them.

I would also suggest that if they eliminate or at least reduce the gold currency reward, it is balanced differently on console. Its not nearly as much of an issue there. On PC, writs have destroyed our economy.

Given the very widely spread dislike of the trader economy seen here and (much more prominently) elsewhere in social media, including the apparently huge number of people who refuse to participate in it at all, on the contrary I *do* think 'we' should be balancing the game around people who don't participate in the economy. Because the economy, as set up, completely ignores a very substantial subset of the player base (and quite possibly the majority of it).

You rightly point out that that leads to players only participating from the buy side. You can address that by removing barriers on the sell side.

Crafting writs really shouldn't be the way to do that, though, but instead a complete rethink of the linkage between traders and player-controlled guilds and / or the creation of proper mechanics for players who don't want to sell via guild traders to access the economy, rather than the joke solution of spamming chat.

I am all for reasonably reworking guild traders, and normally I loath spamming chat to sell things, but gold mats are the exception to that rule. If you price gold mats reasonably, you can sell in chat very easily. I am also not going to use the forums as a gauge for what "most" people want. The guild trading system is very vibrant. Its easy to use, and works very well, especially for commodities like gold mats. There are always going to be a subset of people in an MMO that wont join a guild or attempt to sell anything, but that's on them. The economy should not be balance around them. Just like DPS shouldn't be balanced around people that wont put time and effort into the build/rotation.

Also, the entire point of this thread is that people want Gold Gear reduced in effectiveness because its too expensive. I agree with the premise, just not the solution. The solution is to bring the prices down on gold mats. Reducing/Eliminating gold currency rewards from writs would absolutely do that, and it would also take a massive bite out of the broader inflation problems at the same time. Do I think ZOS will do it? No, I dont, but it would absolutely be a good move for the economy as a whole.

Brrrofski

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's pretty cheap anyway.

It's like 40k to gold a weapon

Quadruple that if you're doing 2 front bar and 2 back bar weapons. 160k.

Which is still nothing.

And it's not like you have to do it that often either.

katanagirl1

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

To be frank, I don't think we should be balancing the game around people that don't participate in the economy.

And lets also be clear. If you don't participate in the markets, you don't need gold, unless you literally only buy things from NPC merchants, which is doubtful. You do participate in the markets, you just do it in a one sided manner. This is why we have rampant inflation, especially on PC.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Some of us will never participate in the market in this game. I'm not going to be happy to have my reward gold from writs cut in half or removed. If that happens, in an apparent attempt to force participation in the crap guild seller setup in this game, I'll just find a different game to play.

I do participate in the game markets and do crafting writs on several toons and I’m not a new player. My main source of gold is the daily crafting writs since furnishing plan drop rates in the current zone (whichever it happens to be) is so astronomically low that I can’t get enough duplicates to sell.

Don’t take that income away from me.

Again, I said it would not be a popular decision, but it would be good for the economy. I am not suggesting taking away your income, I am suggesting that perhaps its not unreasonable for someone to list some of their gold mats in zone chat or a trader to capture said income, again, I am suggesting the gold mat rewards be increased to compensate. Crafting writs are the number one reason we have rampant inflation on PC. It is simply too easy to print money out of thin air, and because there is so much gold coming in, it incentives people that have gold mats to hoard them.

I would also suggest that if they eliminate or at least reduce the gold currency reward, it is balanced differently on console. Its not nearly as much of an issue there. On PC, writs have destroyed our economy.

You are on PC, not console. We don’t have the so-called “inflation” that you have.

You cannot dictate what is good for my platform.

katanagirl1

You know, upon reflection, I have to add to this post.

It turns my stomach that players who probably do daily writs on 5385926 toons with add-ons suggest that everyone should get their gold nerfed. I only know one player, tmbrinks, who actually suggest that others could make gold by doing lots of writs the way he does. Not my cup of tea, but he isn’t calling for nerfs.

On PC, you guys have made your own problems, yet I bet no one does writs without an add-on.

I admit you said consoles should be treated differently but I bet you know as well as I do that ZOS would not do things different and nerf us both.

If you have more gold than you know what to do with, donate more to your guild or help out a new player in some way to pay it forward.

TaSheen

katanagirl1 wrote: »

You know, upon reflection, I have to add to this post.

It turns my stomach that players who probably do daily writs on 5385926 toons with add-ons suggest that everyone should get their gold nerfed. I only know one player, tmbrinks, who actually suggest that others could make gold by doing lots of writs the way he does. Not my cup of tea, but he isn’t calling for nerfs.

On PC, you guys have made your own problems, yet I bet no one does writs without an add-on.

I admit you said consoles should be treated differently but I bet you know as well as I do that ZOS would not do things different and nerf us both.

If you have more gold than you know what to do with, donate more to your guild or help out a new player in some way to pay it forward.

I do writs on 6 characters per day - one each on all three PC accounts, both megaservers. During Jubilee, I up that to maybe 3 on each account both megaservers. Even with an addon, it's stultifying after that many, and I have a lot of other things that are much more fun - questing, exploring, antiquities....

Yes, 6 years ago when I started playing, I bankrolled my accounts by crafting on everyone. When I had enough gold to no longer feel poor, I quit doing that.

lusshtgarel

What a terrible idea. That is the entire point of gold materials. And gold weapon mats are easy enough to get if you're willing to dedicate some time to it. I'm strongly against nerfing gold gear because some people can't be bothered to get more mats.

mocap

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Especially since the high performance players that generate mass amounts of gold mats seem to have gone on an exodus

xd
That's Gold

I sometimes see bots when I do quests, but less and less often.

OBJnoob

lusshtgarel wrote: »

What a terrible idea. That is the entire point of gold materials. And gold weapon mats are easy enough to get if you're willing to dedicate some time to it. I'm strongly against nerfing gold gear because some people can't be bothered to get more mats.

Most people agree golding out armor doesn't really matter. Most people agree golding out jewelry doesn't really matter. Most people agree golding the off-hand weapon isn't very important.

The main hand weapon is a clear exception to the rule.

I don't think OP wants gold weapons nerfed, mats to be cheaper, or anything like that. These things were brought up tangentially.

All that's being asked is to make purple weapons a little stronger so the difference in quality is more comparable to the difference everything else makes. The question shouldn't be "why," it should be "why not?"

lusshtgarel

OBJnoob wrote: »

lusshtgarel wrote: »

All that's being asked is to make purple weapons a little stronger so the difference in quality is more comparable to the difference everything else makes. The question shouldn't be "why," it should be "why not

Because it's already balanced as is? Obviously weapons matter more for your damage than armor. You don't whack enemies with your helmet or rings. So gold weapons making more difference for damage specifically makes more sense.

XSTRONG

Im on ps5eu and im doing daily writs on 9 chars daily.

I get enough gold to upgrade a weapon to gold daily in just gold reward.

If im buying gold mats on ps5eu to upgrade a weapon to gold it costs 30k

StarOfElyon

Yeah, it seems to be more like people are afraid their earnings will take a hit.

Northwold

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Yeah, it seems to be more like people are afraid their earnings will take a hit.

Not to be critical but your original post seems to be aimed at making it possible for you to be able to wear effectively the best gear of any set you like whenever you like without doing much to get there.

I agree that a lot of people here seem to be fussing about earnings, which I find a bit surreal and definitely an end game concern.

But what you are asking for is all sense of progression in player gear to be borked to satisfy a niche play style.

I really doubt the desire to obtain 50 different sets all equally powered at will should be allowed to trump a gameplay mechanic that gives players something to work towards, simply because I doubt that that is how most people play the game.

Expecting that strikes me as equally surreal to the trading discussions and will make the game considerably less fun for "normal" players who, come end game, have a few gear sets and upgrade them over time.

Kisakee

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's pretty cheap anyway.

It's like 40k to gold a weapon

Quadruple that if you're doing 2 front bar and 2 back bar weapons. 160k.

Still small change.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Yeah, it seems to be more like people are afraid their earnings will take a hit.

If you have a couple dozen millions of Gold and know how to get more you don't care about such things anymore. The more money you have the easier it is to come by.

spartaxoxo

Gold mats are easy to come by and inexpensive, with the exception of chromium platings which could maybe use a boost in how they are obtained.