The worst class morphs

Billium813

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I'm sure someone has already pointed it out but DKs and templars had similar reasoning for some changes in some vastly different approaches that feel incredibly unbalanced.

• Dragonknight: Chains of Devastation: This morph now grants Major Berserk for 10 seconds after casting, rather than Empower, as Molten Armaments already grants it in a much more effect way.
• Templar: Everlasting Sweep: Increased the duration of the pulsing Damage over Time to 10 seconds at base, up from 6 seconds.This morph no longer grants Empower, as Solar Flare and its morphs already grant this buff.

So DKs get an added named buff (and a major one) and templars get...4 more seconds of pulsing damage? Seems balanced.

In chatting with the dev team, we wanted to highlight the Chain of Devastation morph was one of the least used abilities in the DK's arsenal. The change was less about buffing the class, and more about creating better incentive to use this underutilized ability more.

I really like this intention from the development team in taking an under used morph and trying to prop it up. However, I don't like that they are focusing on only DK at the moment; I think all classes have some kind of under used morph! I would like each PTS cycle to have a "Morph Improvement" section where the developers select 1 morph from each class that is under used and buffed it in some way. Maybe it can swap every other PTS between Weapons and Classes.

What is your nomination for the least used class skill morph, for each class?

My nomination for Templar is Unstable Core! I haven't used it in 6 years and I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it since then. In fact, not even the NPCs use it; they still use the version from 2015! It seems like all the attention goes on Living Dark.

Gargath

I vote for NB Siphoning Malevolent Offering both morphs.
Why the the heck for a cost of magicka I need to loose my health to gain health.

lusshtgarel

Gargath wrote: »

I vote for NB Siphoning Malevolent Offering both morphs.
Why the the heck for a cost of magicka I need to loose my health to gain health.

Healthy Offering is widely used by healers in certain situations.

GimpyPorcupine

Gargath wrote: »

I vote for NB Siphoning Malevolent Offering both morphs.
Why the the heck for a cost of magicka I need to loose my health to gain health.

Health loss is minimal, and it regularly crits for > 30K health.

fred4

Gargath wrote: »

I vote for NB Siphoning Malevolent Offering both morphs.
Why the the heck for a cost of magicka I need to loose my health to gain health.

Well, it's nonsense just so NB could have a slightly different skill. Or is it? The fact that you lose a slight amount of health allows you to trigger sets that require actual healing. I forget which set it was, not Rallying Cry, cause that triggers regardless. Anyway, it's a weirdly useful skill.

notyuu

Empowering sweep, it is objectivly worse than cresent sweep in every single way

Billium813

notyuu wrote: »

Empowering sweep, it is objectivly worse than cresent sweep in every single way

I use Empowering Sweep for PvE DPS, paired with Flawless Dawnbreaker. I see Crescent Sweep as much better for burst in PvP, but Empowering Sweep gives decent dps for spread out trash packs at a really cheap cost. Sure Empowering Sweep is bad for the sparse, fast paced environment of PvP, but I think it's a good alternative to the MUCH more expensive Nova in PvE.

That being said, I'd like to see it do something more than simple damage now that it's losing Empower... but I like the duality of the two and think they both have usecases in PvP v PvE.

notyuu

Billium813 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

Empowering sweep, it is objectivly worse than cresent sweep in every single way

I use Empowering Sweep for PvE DPS, paired with Flawless Dawnbreaker. I see Crescent Sweep as much better for burst in PvP, but Empowering Sweep gives decent dps for spread out trash packs at a really cheap cost. Sure Empowering Sweep is bad for the sparse, fast paced environment of PvP, but I think it's a good alternative to the MUCH more expensive Nova in PvE.

That being said, I'd like to see it do something more than simple damage now that it's losing Empower... but I like the duality of the two and think they both have usecases in PvP v PvE.

Cresent sweep 1-claps the mob groups, empower sweep does not

Soarora

Nature's Grasp is a pretty bad one... for both morphs. Bursting vines used to be the Warden single-target heal but its been nerfed twice to nothing. Let alone trying to find a use for Nature's Embrace. I only use this skill now to yoink myself at another player.

Tommy_The_Gun

For NB I would vote for Consuming Darkness... both morphs. It is probably the worst ultimate in the entire game and also - the least used ultimate in the entire game.

RaptorRodeoGod

Power Surge for Sorcs? It's a heal, that triggers off a heal. Not that useful considering it's the class's only HoT, especially if you're a DD that wants to add a little extra healing to the group.

Billium813

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Power Surge for Sorcs? It's a heal, that triggers off a heal. Not that useful considering it's the class's only HoT, especially if you're a DD that wants to add a little extra healing to the group.

Yo dawg, I heard you like heels

Lykeion

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For NB I would vote for Consuming Darkness... both morphs. It is probably the worst ultimate in the entire game and also - the least used ultimate in the entire game.

I totally agree. I have only ever seen npc foes use this skill. It's range is too small, and the effect is extremely uncompetitive. It looks like an old skill that has been forgotten by the dev team since beta test

danno8

Billium813 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

Empowering sweep, it is objectivly worse than cresent sweep in every single way

I use Empowering Sweep for PvE DPS, paired with Flawless Dawnbreaker. I see Crescent Sweep as much better for burst in PvP, but Empowering Sweep gives decent dps for spread out trash packs at a really cheap cost. Sure Empowering Sweep is bad for the sparse, fast paced environment of PvP, but I think it's a good alternative to the MUCH more expensive Nova in PvE.

That being said, I'd like to see it do something more than simple damage now that it's losing Empower... but I like the duality of the two and think they both have usecases in PvP v PvE.

Crescent does the same damage all around the Templar as Empowering, but 60% more on the initial hit in front of the Templar.

Assuming the Empower buff is useless to you, you would need to hit at least 4 enemies with Empowering Sweep to make it have enough extra ticks to do the same damage as Crescent and ensure that all the extra ticks hit all the enemies.

Empowering Sweeps should have received Berserk buff for the duration. That would have made it the DPS champ in a rotation, but less bursty.

Billium813

danno8 wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

Empowering sweep, it is objectivly worse than cresent sweep in every single way

I use Empowering Sweep for PvE DPS, paired with Flawless Dawnbreaker. I see Crescent Sweep as much better for burst in PvP, but Empowering Sweep gives decent dps for spread out trash packs at a really cheap cost. Sure Empowering Sweep is bad for the sparse, fast paced environment of PvP, but I think it's a good alternative to the MUCH more expensive Nova in PvE.

That being said, I'd like to see it do something more than simple damage now that it's losing Empower... but I like the duality of the two and think they both have usecases in PvP v PvE.

Crescent does the same damage all around the Templar as Empowering, but 60% more on the initial hit in front of the Templar.

Assuming the Empower buff is useless to you, you would need to hit at least 4 enemies with Empowering Sweep to make it have enough extra ticks to do the same damage as Crescent and ensure that all the extra ticks hit all the enemies.

Empowering Sweeps should have received Berserk buff for the duration. That would have made it the DPS champ in a rotation, but less bursty.

I use Flawless Dawnbreaker for < 4 enemies and Empowering Sweep for > 4. I personally would like to see Empowering Sweep get Minor Courage and Minor Resolve, increasing in duration with the number of enemies hit. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/627173/templar-ideas

Also, can we all please stop just suggesting "add Berserk" to try to buff things; come up with some other ideas. This will forever be known as the "Berserk Patch" xD

Brrrofski

Gargath wrote: »

I vote for NB Siphoning Malevolent Offering both morphs.
Why the the heck for a cost of magicka I need to loose my health to gain health.

I disagree.

The health is minimal. But it heals for a lot. Plus, it in PvP, that negative effect is quite good depending on CP or sets that you're using.

I guess it's there to tie into the blood exchange theme.

Lotus fan is way worse than Ambush.

The heal morph of surge is pretty bad. Super delayed heal that procs when you're already healing? No thanks.

Shattering prison is meh. It's sort of a tank/support skill that has damage tied to it. Who cares? The healing one makes a bit more sense I guess.

Both rune prison skills are kinda crap, but the defensive one is awful. It's PvP focussed, but you want to time a stun, not random really. It helps against ganks I guess but... whatever.

Do people use mines? I know tomb had a moment in the sun for PvP when multiple hit one target. But I don't remember the last time I saw the other morph at all.

Deceptive predator is a bit lackluster. Do PvE thanks use it even?

Leeching vines is a lot weaker than the other imo.

lusshtgarel

Brrrofski wrote: »

Lotus fan is way worse than Ambush.

It isn't. It's always on a healer's bar to apply AoE Minor Vuln.

DinoZavr

Zenimax can just query theirs players database to filter active in last 30 days and receiving XP (to exclude inventory mules) - to check which of morphs are the very least used.

GimpyPorcupine

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Power Surge for Sorcs? It's a heal, that triggers off a heal. Not that useful considering it's the class's only HoT, especially if you're a DD that wants to add a little extra healing to the group.

Only useful for the Sorc healers, but insanely useful for them.

GimpyPorcupine

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For NB I would vote for Consuming Darkness... both morphs. It is probably the worst ultimate in the entire game and also - the least used ultimate in the entire game.

Tooltip on my Stamblade's Veil of Blades is 6k DPS for 15s, synergy heal tooltip is 39740 over 4 seconds.

On my NB tank, the heal tooltip is only 23055 over 4 seconds, but the Major Protection last for 12 seconds after leaving it, for a total of 27 seconds when I stand in it. Block-cancel Dark Cloak while standing still inside the ring, and it stacks Major and Minor Protection, > 7K heal per second that crits for > 10K, and that's with 0 points into Health.

And both give a 70% snare.

I fail to see how either is useless.

Holycannoli

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For NB I would vote for Consuming Darkness... both morphs. It is probably the worst ultimate in the entire game and also - the least used ultimate in the entire game.

I don't think I've ever seen this skill/ultimate used in all my time in this game. I have two nightblades and I've never even put a point into it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Power Surge for Sorcs? It's a heal, that triggers off a heal. Not that useful considering it's the class's only HoT, especially if you're a DD that wants to add a little extra healing to the group.

I would love this morph to be reworked into a burst heal in some way. Everyone runs crit surge, which works very well in PVE, but in PVP, it is really lack luster. I hate to just copy skills, but I almost envision something like Rally, where you get the spell power buff, maybe with a small hot (not based on damage), and the longer you wait to recast, the bigger the burst heal.

I think a burst heal that grows in power the longer you sit on it could play well with shields, giving risk reward to letting your health get low under your shield stack.

TybaltKaine

Gargath wrote: »

I vote for NB Siphoning Malevolent Offering both morphs.
Why the the heck for a cost of magicka I need to loose my health to gain health.

That's like the best single target burst heal in the game. It's the reason my main NB Healer gets requested for Trials by 3 of my guilds.

Nightblade has a lot of underwhelming morphs, but this isn't one of them.

Tryxus

I would say Frozen Retreat. It's fun to play around with it but in most situations the synergy and the actual skill are working against one another. That and the trap is often triggered before the synergy can be used.

Stx

Templar:

-Biting Jabs is completely useless compared to Puncturing sweeps. Same damage, but no healing.

-Javelin skills see some use, but not much. The stamina morph is a decent CC.

-blazing shield morph is pretty much useless since the other morph always has a better shield and neither really deals much damage.

-Sun fire is a weak dot for both morphs. The major prophecy doesn’t help because slotting mage light is superior for dps and convenience.

-The AoE burst heal is never used for anything that I can remember.

-Sun magic ultimate is pretty horrible now that major maim is 10%.

-Radiant aura is basically useless without some form of damage buff (hello, take major sorcery from biting jabs and put it on this skill)

Billium813

Stx wrote: »

Templar:

-Biting Jabs is completely useless compared to Puncturing sweeps. Same damage, but no healing.

-Javelin skills see some use, but not much. The stamina morph is a decent CC.

-blazing shield morph is pretty much useless since the other morph always has a better shield and neither really deals much damage.

-Sun fire is a weak dot for both morphs. The major prophecy doesn’t help because slotting mage light is superior for dps and convenience.

-The AoE burst heal is never used for anything that I can remember.

-Sun magic ultimate is pretty horrible now that major maim is 10%.

-Radiant aura is basically useless without some form of damage buff (hello, take major sorcery from biting jabs and put it on this skill)

Blazing Shield morph is pretty useless. Both morphs scale the damage shield based on number of enemies around them, except Radiant Ward is almost always a bigger shield. It seems like Blazing Shield should scale the damage shield in a different way from Radiant Ward. The Radiant Ward morph seems more applicable to large groups and Blazing Shield should be more applicable to large, boss enemies. Perhaps scaling the damage shield based on the Max Health on the largest enemy hit? Not sure.

Hard disagree with the rest. They all see play and are decent.

Necrotech_Master

Billium813 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Templar:

-Biting Jabs is completely useless compared to Puncturing sweeps. Same damage, but no healing.

-Javelin skills see some use, but not much. The stamina morph is a decent CC.

-blazing shield morph is pretty much useless since the other morph always has a better shield and neither really deals much damage.

-Sun fire is a weak dot for both morphs. The major prophecy doesn’t help because slotting mage light is superior for dps and convenience.

-The AoE burst heal is never used for anything that I can remember.

-Sun magic ultimate is pretty horrible now that major maim is 10%.

-Radiant aura is basically useless without some form of damage buff (hello, take major sorcery from biting jabs and put it on this skill)

Blazing Shield morph is pretty useless. Both morphs scale the damage shield based on number of enemies around them, except Radiant Ward is almost always a bigger shield. It seems like Blazing Shield should scale the damage shield in a different way from Radiant Ward. The Radiant Ward morph seems more applicable to large groups and Blazing Shield should be more applicable to large, boss enemies. Perhaps scaling the damage shield based on the Max Health on the largest enemy hit? Not sure.

Hard disagree with the rest. They all see play and are decent.

they are a bit different

blazing shield does not have the initial dmg, scales up by +4% per enemy hit, and then bursts for 30% of the dmg the shield absorbed

radiant ward has initial dmg, scales +20% per enemy hit, but has no extra burst at the end

i think blazing shield is kind of fun, especially if you have high max hp (which scales the base shield before the scaling per enemy hit) then its still fun aoe burst dmg, but i can see if the reflected dmg did less than that of radiant ward, then radiant ward would probably be better (or if you were tanking and just needed the larger dmg shield for the bigger mobs)

Darkstorne

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Power Surge for Sorcs? It's a heal, that triggers off a heal. Not that useful considering it's the class's only HoT, especially if you're a DD that wants to add a little extra healing to the group.

Sure, but that's because it isn't designed for DDs. It's for healers. My StamSorc healer loves it, since it turns Echoing Vigour into a 2-for-1 HOT

Billium813

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Templar:

-Biting Jabs is completely useless compared to Puncturing sweeps. Same damage, but no healing.

-Javelin skills see some use, but not much. The stamina morph is a decent CC.

-blazing shield morph is pretty much useless since the other morph always has a better shield and neither really deals much damage.

-Sun fire is a weak dot for both morphs. The major prophecy doesn’t help because slotting mage light is superior for dps and convenience.

-The AoE burst heal is never used for anything that I can remember.

-Sun magic ultimate is pretty horrible now that major maim is 10%.

-Radiant aura is basically useless without some form of damage buff (hello, take major sorcery from biting jabs and put it on this skill)

Blazing Shield morph is pretty useless. Both morphs scale the damage shield based on number of enemies around them, except Radiant Ward is almost always a bigger shield. It seems like Blazing Shield should scale the damage shield in a different way from Radiant Ward. The Radiant Ward morph seems more applicable to large groups and Blazing Shield should be more applicable to large, boss enemies. Perhaps scaling the damage shield based on the Max Health on the largest enemy hit? Not sure.

Hard disagree with the rest. They all see play and are decent.

they are a bit different

blazing shield does not have the initial dmg, scales up by +4% per enemy hit, and then bursts for 30% of the dmg the shield absorbed

radiant ward has initial dmg, scales +20% per enemy hit, but has no extra burst at the end

i think blazing shield is kind of fun, especially if you have high max hp (which scales the base shield before the scaling per enemy hit) then its still fun aoe burst dmg, but i can see if the reflected dmg did less than that of radiant ward, then radiant ward would probably be better (or if you were tanking and just needed the larger dmg shield for the bigger mobs)

I think it comes down to use case. Where are you using Blazing Shield? It doesn't have as good of a shield as Radiant Ward, but it deals more damage. Maybe it's more for PvP? *shrug* I think it gets overshadowed (ironically) really heavily by Living Dark then. Plus, if you are using it in PvP, then the +4% per enemy hit is kinda pointless as it wont get more than 2-3 people most of the time. Would like to see a rework here to make it more applicable to where it'd be used.

Unstable Core and Blazing Shield both feel like they are being Eclipsed by Living Dark

Necrotech_Master

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Templar:

-Biting Jabs is completely useless compared to Puncturing sweeps. Same damage, but no healing.

-Javelin skills see some use, but not much. The stamina morph is a decent CC.

-blazing shield morph is pretty much useless since the other morph always has a better shield and neither really deals much damage.

-Sun fire is a weak dot for both morphs. The major prophecy doesn’t help because slotting mage light is superior for dps and convenience.

-The AoE burst heal is never used for anything that I can remember.

-Sun magic ultimate is pretty horrible now that major maim is 10%.

-Radiant aura is basically useless without some form of damage buff (hello, take major sorcery from biting jabs and put it on this skill)

Blazing Shield morph is pretty useless. Both morphs scale the damage shield based on number of enemies around them, except Radiant Ward is almost always a bigger shield. It seems like Blazing Shield should scale the damage shield in a different way from Radiant Ward. The Radiant Ward morph seems more applicable to large groups and Blazing Shield should be more applicable to large, boss enemies. Perhaps scaling the damage shield based on the Max Health on the largest enemy hit? Not sure.

Hard disagree with the rest. They all see play and are decent.

they are a bit different

blazing shield does not have the initial dmg, scales up by +4% per enemy hit, and then bursts for 30% of the dmg the shield absorbed

radiant ward has initial dmg, scales +20% per enemy hit, but has no extra burst at the end

i think blazing shield is kind of fun, especially if you have high max hp (which scales the base shield before the scaling per enemy hit) then its still fun aoe burst dmg, but i can see if the reflected dmg did less than that of radiant ward, then radiant ward would probably be better (or if you were tanking and just needed the larger dmg shield for the bigger mobs)

I think it comes down to use case. Where are you using Blazing Shield? It doesn't have as good of a shield as Radiant Ward, but it deals more damage. Maybe it's more for PvP? *shrug* I think it gets overshadowed (ironically) really heavily by Living Dark then. Plus, if you are using it in PvP, then the +4% per enemy hit is kinda pointless as it wont get more than 2-3 people most of the time. Would like to see a rework here to make it more applicable to where it'd be used.

Unstable Core and Blazing Shield both feel like they are being Eclipsed by Living Dark

i havent actually used either shield in a long time, since my templar is spec'd for stam dps in a pve setting, so i actually use spiked bone shield since its easier to sustain as an emergency shield

i used to use blazing when this character was spec more tanky, but that was like idk maybe 5 years ago now lol

RaptorRodeoGod

Darkstorne wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Power Surge for Sorcs? It's a heal, that triggers off a heal. Not that useful considering it's the class's only HoT, especially if you're a DD that wants to add a little extra healing to the group.

Sure, but that's because it isn't designed for DDs. It's for healers. My StamSorc healer loves it, since it turns Echoing Vigour into a 2-for-1 HOT

I'm not saying do a total redo, but at least add an additional proc condition so someone could use it as their only heal if they wanted to. It's a cool effect but it's pretty limiting in the way it can be used.