Do you think basegame classes are outdated? (Not about balancing!)

Arcturus

I posted a comment in a Necrom YouTube video about how the Arcanist is a lot fancier than basegame classes (specifically sorc since they're both mage-ish) and it got more attention than I expected.
Do you think that newer classes have fancier visuals/animations/themes than older base-game classes? Do you think older classes should get a "graphical" upgrade?

Stinkyremy

Isn't this the reason you hear everyone crying about templar jabs on this forum, because they upgraded the animation to what is now essentially a spear made of light rather than some sort of magical concoction as it was before...

There is nothing wrong with the OG animations anyway.
I get more annoyed when they make drastic changes like overload not having a third bar any more or the DK skill where you throw 3 rocks now, forgot it's name.

Thormar

Imo, and I could be wrong, all new ability fx & animations should go straight to the Crown Store.
That way, if there's a new DK leap and I like it, I buy and apply but can revert to the old leap at any time.
Snd ss always all these new fx and animations will be disabled in Pvp.

DarknDarker

Hmm. I'm not sure about updating the base animation, jabs showed how that can go wrong, but alternative animation skins? Those could go a long way.

HowlKimchi

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

Yes. Update the OG classes' animations.

For example, the major resolve buffs for old classes look terrible compared to say, the necromancer's.

I don't want my character to be a see through blue/yellow/black with red stuff character. I want to see my armor, enhanced with the class animations, like how the necromancer, and it looks like the arcanist, does it.

merpins

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

Yes, but I'm wary due to the Jabs rework, which I'll get into. Let's start.

NB. It does good damage and is good in PVP, but in both PVP and PVE, it is super complicated to play. Its kit is flavorful and fits the class identity more so than other classes, but you can do equal if not more damage as a Warden with 3 buttons. I don't think removing class identity here would be a good idea, but giving it more powerful options for single skills and skills whose kit comes together in a more manageable way would be nice.

Templar. Oh, templar. My old favorite class delegated to the trash due to a bad change. Here's the main problem with this whole situation; revamping old skills and updating classes is good in a vacuum. It's nice to have visual upgrades and better concepts behind skills... But changes no one asked for that are both visual downgrades and reduce a class' main spammable to something unusable isn't acceptable. I'd love to see them revert Jabs, and then rework the whole class if that's what they want to do, but the current iteration of jabs missed the mark. There are many threads that tell us what's wrong with templar right now, but it's really just a nice case study as to the wrong way to go about revamping skills.

DK. I don't play much DK, but I know it has a good kit and is very strong in PVP. Visually, it looks good. But I also know that DK has its fair share of dead skills no one uses. For DK, I think rather than nerfing everything as a starting point, bringing up weaker classes to the level of DK would be best, and revamping skills no one uses for extra options for build diversity.

Sorc. There are threads that talk about the problems with Sorc, just like Templar. It's not in a good place right now. It's... Okay. But not great. Like DK, It has a LOT of dead skills no one uses, so really I think the class could be in a better place if those skills were reworked into new skills that fill in the missing spots of the class' kit; a heal, another class spammable for mag, as a couple examples.

Warden. Not a base game class, but it's been out since 2017. Honestly, I love Warden. It has a couple dead skills in the Ice skill line, but otherwise it's pretty solid. I have two complaints; remove Cliff Racer completely and make a new skill from scratch. Cliff Racer is (was, Jabs is now) the worst skill in the game based on how it feels to use. Its concept is good, but I'd just love a new bleed/cold spammable that feels more responsive. Keep how it works numbers wise if you want, but a full new animation and concept would be appreciated. Second, stop pushing for us to use Ice Staves. Play how you want is a modo for a reason.

Lastly, there are skills in all classes that PVE exclusively uses, and skills that PVP exclusively uses. Separately balance PVE and PvP, then you can make skills for PvE ad skills for PvP using those flex skills. It would make the game far more interesting, give more diversity for both game modes, and make balancing less of a pain for everyone.

Faulgor

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

They need more than a graphical update IMO, they need a complete overhaul.

The base game classes were originally designed around different roles - healer (Templar), tank (Dragonknight), ranged DD (Sorcerer) and melee DD (Nightblade). That plan has been out of date for a long time to accomodate the play-how-you-want mindset, and they tried to mold the classes into something they are not ever since, with subsequent accusations of homogenization.

Necromancer and Arcanist were already designed around everybody being able to fill every role, with dedicated tanking, healing and DD skill trees. Warden is a kind of in-between, as Winter's Embrace started out as the tanking tree, but because many people wanted to play a viable Frost mage, that skill line has come to shoulder some DD tasks as well.
The base game classes were also designed when all class skills were still magicka-based, while the new classes already rolled out with specific morphs for stamina builds.
Necromancers and Arcanists also have unique mechanics, lackluster as they may be, centered around corpse management and combos respectively. Wardens have one foot on that train with their bonuses to Chilled/Brittle effects.

So what should happen for the base game classes is to get back to the drawing board, and design them from the ground up with the same new design philosophy, chiefly
a) One dedicated skill tree for each role
b) unique mechanics that foster class identity
c) unique skill paths for magicka and stamina builds

They can keep as many skills as they like, but instead of tinkering around for another 10 years, just build these classes properly once.

Would make for a hell of a bug fix / QOL update. In my opinion, anyway.

Dr_Con

where does my weapon go when i use caltrops

Marto

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

It'd be nice if the base game classes had mechanics equivalent to the corpses for Necromancer, or the "Crux" points for the upcoming Arcanist class.

Something to let us empower or change the effects of skills, if we perform certain actions.

Danikat

No, they are fine as they are.

I think they're fine and after all the complaints when they have updated animations I'd be wary of assuming a change would be universally considered an improvement.

There are skills I'd like to see changed (mainly making the warden less tied to Vvardenfell) but I don't think it's a priority.

WaywardArgonian

No, they are fine as they are.

No for 2 reasons.

First, the few skills they have reworked visually ended up feeling much worse, with jabs being the main example. I'd rather them not tinker too much with things that people have grown so accustomed to.

Second, I like the less linear design of old classes, with which I mean that the new classes (Warden, Necro and by the looks of it also Arcanist) all have a very strict division of a healing tree, a damage tree and a tanking tree. I can't quite put my finger on it, but this design choice has always made these classes feel sort of static to me. I still enjoy the feel of the old classes more, with the exception of DK, which I always found clunky.

LukosCreyden

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

ESO's classes are weird.
They mostly seem to have a well-defined theme, but there are some that are oddly specific. They also all seem to have their own brand of weirdness.

DK- fire mage, but also earth and... dragon stuff? Also, why does my character grow gross spikes? Is that a dragon thing? Why are they see-through now? Also, chains. Just chains. Because y'know, dragons. Or knights? Did knights use chain thingies?
Poop rocks btw.

Templar- actually not bad, thematically. Aside from the puncturing shovel with the vampire staff lmao. Pretty concise theme overall, just a shame about the class being deceased. Also, very yellow.

Sorcerer- deadra summoner but with lightning magic and some crystals. Also, your main summon is a scamp, the literal trash mob of the oblivion realms lol. Recent changes have kinda forced the summoner playstyle, which is poorly implemented due to the double bar issue.
If you play this class, you probably save a ton of money on fashion, as your character is almost always a vague, bluish specter. Thanks, lightning form, very cool.

Nightblade- The red class. Another class that is pretty good for themes, though. Shadowy rogue / ninja is pretty cool. Going for a magicka spec leans more into blood and shadow magic type stuff. My main issue here is how subdued the spell effects are. I can't see half of em! Going to NB after playing Warden or Necromancer is crazy.

Warden- what are you? Seriously, what even IS this class!? Is it a druid? Is it a fungalmancer? Is it an ice mage? Why is it morrowind?? Why does the morrowind class have ice? Is there ice and snow in morrowind?? I do not recall this. This class fills exactly zero fantasy. It tries to be too much and accomplishes nothing.
The worst part is that I feel like ZOS has not learned from their mistake, what with Arcanist shaping up to be "Herma Mora tentacles, the class". More Arcane, less tentacle please. As for Warden, pick a theme and stick with it, or do what should've been done originally and split the class into two separate classes.

Necromancer- a personal favourite of mine, aesthetically. Dark sorcerer / necromancer theme. Pretty nice.
Except for the floating gravestones. And the relatively small amount of actual necromancy that happens with the class.
And the fact that playing necromancer feels like wading in a lake of glue.
The epitome of clunkiness.
Also has one useable offensive skill in pvp as of U37.
Send help.

So yeah, I am hoping that Arcanist has a more fulfilling aesthetic and class fantasy than what we have seen so far, but I do think that things like Warden need to be given another look.

robwolf666

No, they are fine as they are.

They're fine as they are.

Arcturus

LukosCreyden wrote: »

ESO's classes are weird.
They mostly seem to have a well-defined theme, but there are some that are oddly specific. They also all seem to have their own brand of weirdness.

DK- fire mage, but also earth and... dragon stuff? Also, why does my character grow gross spikes? Is that a dragon thing? Why are they see-through now? Also, chains. Just chains. Because y'know, dragons. Or knights? Did knights use chain thingies?
Poop rocks btw.

Templar- actually not bad, thematically. Aside from the puncturing shovel with the vampire staff lmao. Pretty concise theme overall, just a shame about the class being deceased. Also, very yellow.

Sorcerer- deadra summoner but with lightning magic and some crystals. Also, your main summon is a scamp, the literal trash mob of the oblivion realms lol. Recent changes have kinda forced the summoner playstyle, which is poorly implemented due to the double bar issue.
If you play this class, you probably save a ton of money on fashion, as your character is almost always a vague, bluish specter. Thanks, lightning form, very cool.

Nightblade- The red class. Another class that is pretty good for themes, though. Shadowy rogue / ninja is pretty cool. Going for a magicka spec leans more into blood and shadow magic type stuff. My main issue here is how subdued the spell effects are. I can't see half of em! Going to NB after playing Warden or Necromancer is crazy.

Warden- what are you? Seriously, what even IS this class!? Is it a druid? Is it a fungalmancer? Is it an ice mage? Why is it morrowind?? Why does the morrowind class have ice? Is there ice and snow in morrowind?? I do not recall this. This class fills exactly zero fantasy. It tries to be too much and accomplishes nothing.
The worst part is that I feel like ZOS has not learned from their mistake, what with Arcanist shaping up to be "Herma Mora tentacles, the class". More Arcane, less tentacle please. As for Warden, pick a theme and stick with it, or do what should've been done originally and split the class into two separate classes.

Necromancer- a personal favourite of mine, aesthetically. Dark sorcerer / necromancer theme. Pretty nice.
Except for the floating gravestones. And the relatively small amount of actual necromancy that happens with the class.
And the fact that playing necromancer feels like wading in a lake of glue.
The epitome of clunkiness.
Also has one useable offensive skill in pvp as of U37.
Send help.

So yeah, I am hoping that Arcanist has a more fulfilling aesthetic and class fantasy than what we have seen so far, but I do think that things like Warden need to be given another look.

This!!! Spittin' out F.A.C.T.S and spilling the tea, loved it!

fizzylu

No, they are fine as they are.

I feel like the newer classes have more disappearing weapons with animations than the older ones so no. I'd prefer for Zenimax to leave my sorcerer who has close to zero disappearing weapon animations alone. Only thing I'd appreciate a rework for is sorcerer pets.
If anything, I'd like them to rework the VFX and animations for staffs.... they're just pathetic, honestly. I especially hate restoration staffs VFX's.

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Warden- what are you? Seriously, what even IS this class!? Is it a druid? Is it a fungalmancer? Is it an ice mage? Why is it morrowind?? Why does the morrowind class have ice? Is there ice and snow in morrowind?? I do not recall this. This class fills exactly zero fantasy. It tries to be too much and accomplishes nothing.

Also, glad to see I'm not the only one that has been confused by the warden. I thought of this even more recently when someone compared it to being a bard since it has a story-telling aspect.... but I also feel like that aspect is barely there in it's abilities even though they promoted it that way. Idk, it doesn't make sense haha

colossalvoids

Yes, but I think other issues are more important at the moment and should take priority.

The idea what's update should look like is not that simple I guess. I genuinely think that old animations look better and made with way more attention than the new ones, my idea if an update would be some sort of vfx texture upscaling or at times more "modern" vfx should take place if something is too outdated looking.

Example is Templar recent "update". It was done poorly, animation was done sloppy. New vfx alone wouldn't be much if an issue if a spear would mimic your current staff equipped or an actual spear like motif took it's place if you're wielding different weapon type. Same with NB bound daggers for example, which are still looking really good but can mimic your dw weapons when equipped as a customisation option.

But I'd not even touch this topic in game's current state, also not knowing how detailed of an approach team would go with it. If it's another plar/flurry than I'd better pass all along.

emilyhyoyeon

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

Animations-wise, yes

peacenote

No, they are fine as they are.

I don't really like it when classic parts of the game are overhauled.... ZOS seems to struggle with understanding what's good about its own game and ensuring those things are preserved. To me both the vampire re-work and the animation updates from U35 were a miss and that's enough evidence for a no in my book.

Heartrage

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

We need new class skills/morphs to be added ti the game.

Jaimeh

No, they are fine as they are.

From what we've seen so far of the Arcanist, I wouldn't say the animations and visuals are an upgrade to existing classes, I found them kind of cheap/mobile game-y, and the colour scheme a bit dull. Having said that, I wish they reverted templar jabs and rapid strikes, the new versions are awful to weave with, and also look silly.

BlueRaven

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

I think templars need some visual improvements (specifically their healing spells), as do dks and sorcs, nightblades though need A LOT of work. Their effects are super muted.

DMuehlhausen

No, they are fine as they are.

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yes. Update the OG classes' animations.

For example, the major resolve buffs for old classes look terrible compared to say, the necromancer's.

I don't want my character to be a see through blue/yellow/black with red stuff character. I want to see my armor, enhanced with the class animations, like how the necromancer, and it looks like the arcanist, does it.

If they did this it would be like Alderaan being destroyed. As all the whiners of the forums would suddenly cry out causing a large disturbance in the force.

Shagreth

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

I am almost shocked that so many people think classes are fine. Imagine playing the same thing for so many years. Some classes need a minor rework, then we need new skill lines & animations, desperately. Last but not least, class change token so that some of us can escape the hell of being locked to our old main.

Agenericname

Yes, but I think other issues are more important at the moment and should take priority.

Shagreth wrote: »

I am almost shocked that so many people think classes are fine. Imagine playing the same thing for so many years. Some classes need a minor rework, then we need new skill lines & animations, desperately. Last but not least, class change token so that some of us can escape the hell of being locked to our old main.

When you take away playing a class strictly for the numbers youre left with people who chose that class for the way that look, feel, and/or play. For every one that would like an update, there will be someone who is still happy with choice they made years ago.

I doubt that everyone thinks that classes are fine. Its more like some of us think "it could be worse, much worse." See the templar jabs for example.

TaSheen

No, they are fine as they are.

Considering the distress over the jabs and flurry reworked animations, I think they shouldn't touch anything else.

Ragnarok0130

No, they are fine as they are.

I think the animations should remain untouched as it's part of the class identity, in fact the visual rework on the Templar spear/animation should be completely reverted to what it used to be. I do however think the kits itself has to be tweaked so all classes remain competitive and have a role with the introduction of our third new class.

That being said if ZoS actually expands on 'customizable actions' and allows us to visually swap between models/animation for skills then that would allow current players to keep the launch animations they like while giving players who want something different the ability to change, and we all know ZoS would sell those new animations in the crown store so they make money - everyone wins in that scenario.

KlauthWarthog

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

The issue is not that they changed jabs, but that the new animation is very, very bad.

DrNukenstein

Yes, but I think other issues are more important at the moment and should take priority.

I think a mechanical update more so than animations.

-Every class needs a spammable that can compete with upper cut/morphs
-everyclass needs a resource scaling burst heal
-key major buffs (sorc/brut, sav/proph, resolve) should be generated by performing certain actions key to class identity. Like how NBs generate minor sav from doing a backstab
-conditions for automatically refreshing class dots and buffs without casting the skill again. Stuff like killing an enemy with
a class skill refreshes critical surge
-passives that give %stats for slotted skills should give recovery or weapon damage depending on the intention of that passive. Small thing, but keeping stats the same between bars is a build consideration and having to slot certain skills to balance stat passives between each bar feels limiting.
-skills that turn a full heavy into a super attack under certain conditions while slotted. What if super whip or bow proc was a heavy attack that could be weaved with another skill in the same gcd? That'd be prettycool.

Castagere

No, they are fine as they are.

LOL, they are fine as is.

Dragonlord573

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

I'd like the visuals to be updated, especially on DK. The textures on Spike Armor isn't really good, Inferno is underwhelming, and Ash Cloud's morphs should visually be swapped (seriously, why does a cloud of ash do damage and spurts of lava heal?)

Personally I like the changes to Jabs and Flurry. Jabs isn't as annoying to use anymore, is easier to weave with, and flurry looks more competent cause a series of stabs the way it was is genuinely painful to do irl.

Finedaible

The older animations definitely show their age, but ESO has never been particularly great with animation to begin with. There's a ton of shared animations between classes and universal skill lines and I expect Arcanist will share some of them as well unless they finally ditch the old console crutch with the next chapter update or something. Shared animations make sense for a game of this size to save on resources but I don't think they can keep that up for much longer. People are already tired of the overused mount rigs for example.

Idk, I would like for Nightblades' shadow magic to look - well - more shadowy like some of the later 'shadow' effects they developed for mounts and such, but changing animations and effects has been met with very mixed reactions so far so I don't really want changes unless they are exceptionally good. Player skills have certainly not had the same amount of dramatic flair that NPC skills typically have.