Do you think basegame classes are outdated? (Not about balancing!)

pelle412

No, they are fine as they are.

I think there is way too much flashy animations and sound effects now that it's starting to become bothersome. There's even a mount that produces a long sound effects with really flashy graphics when mounted. The original classes feel thematically very well grounded, even more so than the Necromancer. I'd rather have the Arcanist be more modest in animations and sound effects.

Destai

No, they are fine as they are.

Not at all. I think they're pretty resiliently designed and changing them to be more uniformed alongside the DLC classes wouldn't be well received by many. Just look at how the jabs change was received. I don't feel like there's anything deeply wrong with them and they're all pretty straightforward to play.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I feel like I said this earlier today in a different thread, but here is my take, and admittedly, I am mostly talking about balancing. I care far more about balance and gameplay functionality than I do about flashy skills. Also, last time they made a major aesthetic change to an iconic basegame skill, people lost their freaking minds, cough cough, jabs, cough.

I think the base game classes have definitely lost some of their identity. At launch, and for the first few years, I felt like each class had things they were good at, and things they were frankly not so good at.

You wanted a tank? You rolled a DK. You wanted a healer? You rolled a Templar. Sorc and NB were clearly designed as your damage classes. Admittedly, every class could DPS pretty well. One of the best players I ever new played a templar tank, but when we decided to tackle VMOL HM (and we were on of the first to clear it), he had to roll a DK. Group comp of all the early clears was two DK tanks, two templar healers, and mostly NBs and Sorcs as DPS, with a templar or DK occupying the melee slots.

Now, ZOS has made an effort to make sure every class can be good at everything. I understand why, mostly because people complained, but I also think it has resulted in homogenization of the classes, which is not a great thing in my opinion.

Araneae6537

No, they are fine as they are.

I dislike how templar jabs were changed. For the most part, I prefer the look and feel of the original classes, including having themed rather than utility skill lines.

I never liked how most of the necro skills look, especailly throwing skulls and tombstones, although the spirit mendor and battlemage/archer are cool. I’m hoping the look of arcanist is more to my taste.

Amottica

No, they are fine as they are.

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Isn't this the reason you hear everyone crying about templar jabs on this forum, because they upgraded the animation to what is now essentially a spear made of light rather than some sort of magical concoction as it was before...

There is nothing wrong with the OG animations anyway.
I get more annoyed when they make drastic changes like overload not having a third bar any more or the DK skill where you throw 3 rocks now, forgot it's name.

The Templar jabs is a good point.

However, I doubt there is a need for any changes. People may see the latest shiny and get all excited, but that has no bearing on the design of the existing classes that we are used to seeing day in and day out.

Things are just fine.

Tensar

Yes, but I think other issues are more important at the moment and should take priority.

all the combats animations in this game are bad, classes or not.

TaSheen

No, they are fine as they are.

I guess I'm the odd one out - I actually don't care about animations. I care about results.

the1andonlyskwex

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I feel like I said this earlier today in a different thread, but here is my take, and admittedly, I am mostly talking about balancing. I care far more about balance and gameplay functionality than I do about flashy skills. Also, last time they made a major aesthetic change to an iconic basegame skill, people lost their freaking minds, cough cough, jabs, cough.

I think the base game classes have definitely lost some of their identity. At launch, and for the first few years, I felt like each class had things they were good at, and things they were frankly not so good at.

You wanted a tank? You rolled a DK. You wanted a healer? You rolled a Templar. Sorc and NB were clearly designed as your damage classes. Admittedly, every class could DPS pretty well. One of the best players I ever new played a templar tank, but when we decided to tackle VMOL HM (and we were on of the first to clear it), he had to roll a DK. Group comp of all the early clears was two DK tanks, two templar healers, and mostly NBs and Sorcs as DPS, with a templar or DK occupying the melee slots.

Now, ZOS has made an effort to make sure every class can be good at everything. I understand why, mostly because people complained, but I also think it has resulted in homogenization of the classes, which is not a great thing in my opinion.

I'm not sure how far back you're going, but as early as console launch ZOS messaging was that any class could play any role and there were even (community created) guides saying that DKs were the best healers (because they had the easiest access to +healing done buffs).

(On the other hand, I also pretty regularly got kicked from PUG dungeon groups simply for being a DK healer up until at least the Morrowind chapter. That was because people are dumb though, not because anything in ZOS's class design made DKs particularly bad healers.)

Marto

Yes, resources should be dedicated to upgrade old classes to more modern class' visuals, animations, themes...

Dragonknight:
Inferno
Inhale

Nightblade:
Blur
Malevolent Offer
Cripple
Drain Power

Sorcerer:
Negate
Encase/Rune Prison

Templar:
Eclipse
Healing Ritual

And even weapon abilities like Blade Cloak

These are only some of the abilities that I think really do not fit the identity or playstyle of the various classes. They are either redundant, underwhelming, visually or mechanically uninteresting, or just poorly designed.

If DK, NB, Sorc, or Templar were brand new DLC classes released today, you can be sure that ZOS wouldn't give them abilities like these, and instead find something more interesting.

I get it. If your build uses any of these skills and you enjoy how they work, you'd feel disappointed if Eclipse got replaced with a buff that makes your sword glow with holy light; or if Rune prison got replaced with a placeable crystal wall that blocks projectiles; or if Inhale got replaced by a dragon tail swipe.

But I still think it'd be better for the game if classes had more interesting and unique tools,

Healing ritual is a relic from launch. An ability that made sense when healing was sparse, and the combat was a lot slower paced. When a 2 second wind-up for a more powerful heal felt like a worthwhile trade. But that simply doesn't fit in ESO anymore. But instead of replacing it with something new, ZOS just sped it up.

I wish ZOS was willing to entirely remove and replace abilities that no longer fit the game, instead of reworking them. That would make for a more interesting and better game.

RaptorRodeoGod

No, they are fine as they are.

I've been playing the game since console release, I enjoy the animations for the base game classes because that's what makes them that class. If y'all want new animations have them make new skill lines/classes, don't rip away the identity that has been there for 8+ years

Oreyn_Bearclaw

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I feel like I said this earlier today in a different thread, but here is my take, and admittedly, I am mostly talking about balancing. I care far more about balance and gameplay functionality than I do about flashy skills. Also, last time they made a major aesthetic change to an iconic basegame skill, people lost their freaking minds, cough cough, jabs, cough.

I think the base game classes have definitely lost some of their identity. At launch, and for the first few years, I felt like each class had things they were good at, and things they were frankly not so good at.

You wanted a tank? You rolled a DK. You wanted a healer? You rolled a Templar. Sorc and NB were clearly designed as your damage classes. Admittedly, every class could DPS pretty well. One of the best players I ever new played a templar tank, but when we decided to tackle VMOL HM (and we were on of the first to clear it), he had to roll a DK. Group comp of all the early clears was two DK tanks, two templar healers, and mostly NBs and Sorcs as DPS, with a templar or DK occupying the melee slots.

Now, ZOS has made an effort to make sure every class can be good at everything. I understand why, mostly because people complained, but I also think it has resulted in homogenization of the classes, which is not a great thing in my opinion.

I'm not sure how far back you're going, but as early as console launch ZOS messaging was that any class could play any role and there were even (community created) guides saying that DKs were the best healers (because they had the easiest access to +healing done buffs).

(On the other hand, I also pretty regularly got kicked from PUG dungeon groups simply for being a DK healer up until at least the Morrowind chapter. That was because people are dumb though, not because anything in ZOS's class design made DKs particularly bad healers.)

I have played since beta, so that far back I suppose. Nothing stopped people, even very early on from tanking on a NB or healing on a Sorc, but they were not as good as their DK or Templar counterparts. It didnt matter for most content, but when you really got into the thick of things, (remember, Vet HMs used to take a lot of progression, even for the best groups), some classes where just better at some things than others. That is of course still true today, but ZOS has been trying to make it less so for years. Personally, I am okay with classes being good at one thing and lousy at others, but again, I understand why ZOS pushes against that, to appease the masses, especially people that only want to play one class/character.

I do think that both Chapter classes, Necro and Warden, were designed from the ground up to be able to perform all roles. I think the base game classes where not, but rather, modified over the years to be able to do so. Its also clear that the Chapter classes were designed with the Major/Minor buff system in mind, and again, the base game classes had to be adapted to that system. The result is that some of the base game classes can feel a little out of touch (sorc I think is the best example), and we also have more homogenization of classes than I would like.