Sorcerers?

jaws343

ForumBully wrote: »

I see a lot of concern about high health sorcs...am I wrong to not be concerned yet? Maybe I need to tinker around a bit, but you do need a decent mag pool to sustain shields

I really havent played with it yet though, so I might be way off

There just isn't enough sustain in the Sorc's toolkit to support high health and shields. Too many things cost too much, including the shields themselves. And if you are stacking health, you aren't going to have a mag pool to have a shield up more than a few casts in a row, which is useless. That's before even trying to use streak/bol. And you wouldn't have mag sustain enough to manage it.

ForumBully

OBJnoob wrote: »

@ForumBully Well I'm on console so I can't use the PTS unfortunately. I wouldn't say I'm "worried" about sorcs-- I don't think they were buffed enough.

I will say though that I've been wanting an excuse to play my stamsorc again and this is it for me. I'm thinking about trying Sword Swinger + Clever Alchemist + Gaze of Sithis. Sword Singer might be a bad choice-- but even if I change sets, the goal is to spam the crap out of wrecking blow.

More importantly this setup should have a lot of HP. And while Hardened Ward would indeed be difficult to spam on a stamsorc, using it WITH the 1h/s shield or even undaunted boneshield, both of which cost stamina, won't be so hard.

Ah...sorcs definitely aren't buffed enough, or even buffed correctly. I play console too but I occasionally get on pts for funsies. I don't think a magsorc, a "traditional" shield stacking magsorc can try to scale with health because their damage already sucks too much without ramping up the mag pool. I am curious to see how the health scaling is even beneficial to anyone considering the cost to survive via shields

ForumBully

jaws343 wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I see a lot of concern about high health sorcs...am I wrong to not be concerned yet? Maybe I need to tinker around a bit, but you do need a decent mag pool to sustain shields

I really havent played with it yet though, so I might be way off

There just isn't enough sustain in the Sorc's toolkit to support high health and shields. Too many things cost too much, including the shields themselves. And if you are stacking health, you aren't going to have a mag pool to have a shield up more than a few casts in a row, which is useless. That's before even trying to use streak/bol. And you wouldn't have mag sustain enough to manage it.

I wouldn't think so either. So I have to wonder who does ZoS think they're helping here? Is there a viable Sorc tank in the world using shields rather than blocking? I don't think so

OBJnoob

I don't think anyone is expecting a high health magsorc to have enough mag to sustain shields forever. I think the idea is more that now they can stack HP and weapon damage (like everyone else,) instead of max mag. Which has a lot of implications that I think you might not be applying to the new situation.

In the old (current) situation a sorc needs to keep shields up at all times or their 25k health goes poof. A 40k sorc will not poof, and therefore doesn't need to keep shields up as religiously.

Getting decent HP on a sorc isn't going to be that hard. Running arcane jewelry, these days, is a sacrifice. Running all mag enchants is a sacrifice. Running necropotence or crafty alfiq, these days, is a sacrifice. Using a max mag mundus is a sacrifice. Switching to infused jewelry, using tri-stat enchants on armor, using clever alchemist, and picking a damage mundus is not a sacrifice.

Their ability to better pressure their opponent and their ability to take more hits to their actual health pool will open their own offensive window wider, also resulting in having to shield less.

But honestly it isn't as though sorcs hurt for sustain anyway. There's always Dark Deal and Energy Overload.

But I think the best point was the first point I mentioned. Instead of stacking two mag costing wards sorcs will now have the option to stack 1 mag cost and 1 stam cost.

ForumBully

OBJnoob wrote: »

I don't think anyone is expecting a high health magsorc to have enough mag to sustain shields forever. I think the idea is more that now they can stack HP and weapon damage (like everyone else,) instead of max mag. Which has a lot of implications that I think you might not be applying to the new situation.

In the old (current) situation a sorc needs to keep shields up at all times or their 25k health goes poof. A 40k sorc will not poof, and therefore doesn't need to keep shields up as religiously.

Getting decent HP on a sorc isn't going to be that hard. Running arcane jewelry, these days, is a sacrifice. Running all mag enchants is a sacrifice. Running necropotence or crafty alfiq, these days, is a sacrifice. Using a max mag mundus is a sacrifice. Switching to infused jewelry, using tri-stat enchants on armor, using clever alchemist, and picking a damage mundus is not a sacrifice.

Their ability to better pressure their opponent and their ability to take more hits to their actual health pool will open their own offensive window wider, also resulting in having to shield less.

But honestly it isn't as though sorcs hurt for sustain anyway. There's always Dark Deal and Energy Overload.

But I think the best point was the first point I mentioned. Instead of stacking two mag costing wards sorcs will now have the option to stack 1 mag cost and 1 stam cost.

Hmm...maybe. Still seems like an "on paper" plan. Sorcs can get to 30k health already with a 50k mag pool. I'm not sure other 10k health does as much as what many others have suggested would help sorcs out more.

OBJnoob

And on that we agree completely. As we've already said, I think, they weren't buffed enough.

That being said-- I think some of what was being asked for was ridiculous. But it is kinda sad that the fix wasn't even in the same vein as what was being asked for.

Personally I've always said "give them major breach and give them a reliable burst heal."

A lot of other people wanted to see a rework of the passives... Also a decent idea.

In the end I'm easy to please. You might not think so from seeing me on the forums but in game I have lots of characters to play and I swap between them frequently. When classes get gutted it doesn't hurt me the same way it does other people. I just play something else... Sometimes meta sometimes not.

A part of me is kinda glad they didn't force a way to make mag-shields viable again. Mag-stacking just isn't efficient anymore. Inflating a singular mechanic to try and cover that up is ultimately pointless. What sorcs really need is a new way to build. Hopefully this gives them that.

Like I said I'm gonna try to apply it to stamsorc. Sword Swinger (my burst heal can be rally and I can use wrecking blow,) with clever alch and Sithis to try and make use of HP wards. I just want to try new things!!

StaticWave

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Remember that if Snake in the Stars goes through, the Blood Magic passive is going to get us all killed next patch...

Not if you take care of your healing weakness. That set is just a DoT that can go through shield. Since there can only be one instance of it at any given time, you can literally negate the set with one Vigor tick. Blood Magic + Vigor will be more than enough to ignore the set's effect in a fight. If you don't use any HoTs, then that's something you will need to slot.

StaticWave

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Remember that if Snake in the Stars goes through, the Blood Magic passive is going to get us all killed next patch...

its better to have blood magic on top of vigor, rather than just let snake completely negate vigor and lead u to death

Sure, but that is even more pressure to use Vigor on a class that is very much not designed for it.

I disagree. Vigor is an ability that works on any class and any build. A HoT is always valuable, whether you run a full shield or full healing build. For magsorc, it's crucial to slot Vigor because that's how you fix shield's weakness.

Tannus15

@StaticWave the biggest draw back for crystal weapon is that you can't run crystal frags with it.

Bound Armaments just isn't as good as frag proc.

I'm from PVE land so i'm looking at it from a different perspective, but from a from a pure dps perspective crystal weapon + BA can't compete with crushing weapon + frag proc.
further more you're stuck with BA for all fights in a trial. so when i'm running silver shards for the extra cleave i don't want to have to run BA.

I'm a big fan of crystal weapon and I really want it to work, I love the self heal, i love the unique 1k pen and i love the sustain benefit.

but the fact is that BA just isn't as good as frag proc so i can't justify running that morph