Major Berserk on Chains

robpr

Was it really necessary to put Major Berserk in there? DK already have high burst. I don't want other core DK abilities to get nerfed later just because a gap closer gives 10% damage boost.
Give it damage shield, recovery bonus or anything less harmless, like Major Cowardice on enemy or something.

VixxVexx

They could have made it Minor Berserk. Because DKs tend to slot FoO instead of Camo. But no, straight to Major. I can't.

Wuuffyy

VixxVexx wrote: »

They could have made it Minor Berserk. Because DKs tend to slot FoO instead of Camo. But no, straight to Major. I can't.

They could have made it nothing. It should have stayed the same if anything or have been nerfed.

ForumBully

And now on wrecking blow too

VixxVexx

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

VixxVexx wrote: »

They could have made it Minor Berserk. Because DKs tend to slot FoO instead of Camo. But no, straight to Major. I can't.

They could have made it nothing. It should have stayed the same if anything or have been nerfed.

O yea for sure. DK didn't need it at all. It's just funny that they went straight for one of the most powerful major buffs.

DirtyDeeds765

Thank you for the major berserk on the new devastating chains morph zos! My damage was struggling on magdk!

@DirtyDeeds765

Volckodav

Hey ZOS doing adjustment...what did you expect? ofc t will be super boosted and then completly changed soon and finally gut down, take some pop corn and enjoy the show!

emilyhyoyeon

Could not believe this when I read it lmao

GetAgrippa

Yeah, my dk does not need this buff. Zos, come on now.

WrathOfInnos

Ease up forums. This is one of the more interesting changes in the patch notes. Let's at least try it before jumping to claims of overpowered DK.

ForumBully

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ease up forums. This is one of the more interesting changes in the patch notes. Let's at least try it before jumping to claims of overpowered DK.

Sure...but they were already one of the least squeaky wheels. I can't see adding Major Berserk as a step down.

Tannus15

I was looking at builds on esologs for my sorc for a godslayer prog and literally every top group was 5 or 6 dk's with 1 sorc and 2 necro's.
Now the dk's can have 100% uptime for major berserk with a backbar skill. What? Why? Who looked at DK's and thought "they need 10% more damage for basically free" ??

Also putting it on wrecking blow is going to make that the meta spammable. Because 10% DAMAGE FOR FREE IS A BAD IDEA

olsborg

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Ease up forums. This is one of the more interesting changes in the patch notes. Let's at least try it before jumping to claims of overpowered DK.

They are already op imo, why buff them further, jeesh

Dragonlord573

DK buff go brrrrr

acastanza_ESO

This is an actually insane buff to DKs, I can't even fathom what they're thinking here. This can not possibly make it to live. I can only assume this is being done to shift the conversation towards "don't do this big buff" instead of what it should be which is "nerf DK's already massively overperforming toolkit".

sneakymitchell

Come now it’s only 10% . I remember the time major berserk was 25% more damage. That is a lot more than we have currently. A lot of sets and skills bee. Gutted to the point major berserk is just a meh damage boost

Urzigurumash

It's OP, there's no doubt. But, it could be good.

Remember the lesson of Oakensoul - giving everybody Major Berserk+Courage at the expense of running a defensive backbar was the most effective solution of all time to the Tank Meta of PvP. It simply wasn't possible to be a top tier DD on one bar and a top tier Healtank on the other bar like it usually is. Oakensoul caused its own problems, but this was one it fixed for a patch or two.

Chains are backbarrable, but not quite if you really want to maximize Whip + FoO, DK's main damage skills. You'll lose efficiency on Seething Fury stacks if you put Chains on a different bar from Whip/FoO, you lose potential tooltip on Whip/FoO (not to mention the loss of Savagery) if you put it on a Resto/SnB/Frost backbar. There's ways to make a backbar Ardent Flame spread work but with overall lower tooltips than on a frontbar Ardent Flame spread.

So maybe this doesn't seem like a perfect way to incorporate the Oakensoul Lesson into a stable environment, but, this change to Whip along with Major Berserk on Wrecking Blow means:

1. Everybody has access to Major Berserk in a Melee Build with 2h
2. Everybody has access to Minor Berserk in any Build with Resto
3. DK is the most versatile Melee Class with non-Weapon dependent Major Berserk
4. NB is the most versatile Range Class with non-Weapon dependent Major Berserk
5. Warden is the next most versatile for Range or Melee, with in-class Minor Berserk

To me, the way to possibly make this work might be:

An in-class source of Berserk on Necro, Sorc, and Templar, whether Major or Minor, Ranged or Melee, I don't know, and probably some adjustment to Reaper's Mark, maybe a reduction of its telegraph, I don't know.

Or, maybe we need some Berserk on Destro, DW, and Bow. This would be a big help to Sorc and Necro for sure.

I agree DK is an odd choice to try this on, it surprised me. But, in the context of DK, Chains definitely makes sense, it maybe makes the most sense, since it was an unused skill and this reinforces the fact that a Ranged DK isn't as strong as a Melee DK.

acastanza_ESO

DK simply doesn't need in-class access to Major Berserk at all the class simply does not need a buff, any buff, at all.

Urzigurumash

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

DK simply doesn't need in-class access to Major Berserk at all the class simply does not need a buff, any buff, at all.

I agree - unless everybody else had it too. If that were the case - Chains is a good spot for it, no?

sneakymitchell

Each class can have a unquie passive, skill, and buffs to suit players playstyle. Like nightblades going invisible anytime while doing high burst damage in few seconds. Templar able to heal easily. And so forth

WrathOfInnos

It's not like they're getting Major Berserk as a passive. They have to cast a low-damage, high-cost gap closer to get it for 10s. I'm guessing this will make Chains better than Stampede (despite the guaranteed crit and AoE DoT), but isn't that the way class skills vs generic should be balanced?

festegios

robpr wrote: »

Was it really necessary to put Major Berserk in there? DK already have high burst. I don't want other core DK abilities to get nerfed later just because a gap closer gives 10% damage boost.
Give it damage shield, recovery bonus or anything less harmless, like Major Cowardice on enemy or something.

i assume this annoyance is from a pvp perspecitive?

OBJnoob

festegios wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Was it really necessary to put Major Berserk in there? DK already have high burst. I don't want other core DK abilities to get nerfed later just because a gap closer gives 10% damage boost.
Give it damage shield, recovery bonus or anything less harmless, like Major Cowardice on enemy or something.

i assume this annoyance is from a pvp perspecitive?

Yes. From a PvP perspective giving DKs major berserk is lunacy.

Urzigurumash

OBJnoob wrote: »

festegios wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Was it really necessary to put Major Berserk in there? DK already have high burst. I don't want other core DK abilities to get nerfed later just because a gap closer gives 10% damage boost.
Give it damage shield, recovery bonus or anything less harmless, like Major Cowardice on enemy or something.

i assume this annoyance is from a pvp perspecitive?

Yes. From a PvP perspective giving DKs major berserk is lunacy.

I thought your suggestion in another thread that FoO should simply refresh when spammed was probably the single best recommendation to curtail DK that I've read. Especially since the discussion was about the irrelevance of 2h DK versus Ardent Flame DK, it's interesting that they now both have this buff.

OBJnoob

Thanks-- yeah-- I think it was a good idea too.

And tying that to this... It is bothersome that empowering chains or whatever it's new name is IS an ardent flame ability. So now they can gap close to whoever they want and corrosive whip them. They basically removed the only feasible counterplay to something that's too strong to begin with.

Putting major berserk on wrecking blow doesn't bother me... Things that everybody can have don't bother me.

I suppose the fact that it's on wrecking blow as well does make things better because DKs won't be the only ones with it... But still, it's lunacy to have given ANY buff to DKs right now. The fact that it was given to an ardent flame gap closer... Lol.

I just don't know what they're thinking. They give sorcs almost nothing. They give templars almost nothing. They destroy necro. DKs are buffed. NBs remain the same. Wardens we're nerfed a bit I guess, which is good, but I wasn't using crystallized slab or Wall so mine will be as strong as ever. Though using a Frost Staff for 12% more damage seems rather "meh" when you're now giving up an execute, much better passives and base damage, AND major berserk. I'll probably switch to 2H.

Urzigurumash

Here's a hot take. This is a pretty big experiment in ESO, maybe it makes sense to do it an a way that doesn't disrupt class balance at first. DK will move up on Warden and NB for sure, but I feel like it's already stronger than them. As far as I know, DK is the strongest class in the game, all roles, all content. (I don't know how to heal)

Look at what I wrote about the spread of access to Berserk, this would set forth a clear fact: the 3 strongest classes in PvP are the 3 classes with in-class Berserk.

For those of us who spent so much time in the dark years of DK learning every intricacy about this class and how to try to exploit our unique strengths, yeah sure whatever, it was all replaced with spamming Chains and Flames.

Oh well, sad day for us, fact is PvP needs more Berserk and Courage to even out the easy access to Protection, Undeath, etc.

OBJnoob

And for the record Mr. Mash I do agree with you that thematically it makes sense to put on that skill. For the reasons you said and also for the reasons they gave in the patch notes. But balance-wise it's... Yup, you guessed it, lunacy.

Urzigurumash

OBJnoob wrote: »

And for the record Mr. Mash I do agree with you that thematically it makes sense to put on that skill. For the reasons you said and also for the reasons they gave in the patch notes. But balance-wise it's... Yup, you guessed it, lunacy.

Yeah, it definitely makes sense as the in-class source. Without Sorc/Templar/Necro getting easier access to it, to me putting it on the already S+ class might not exactly be lunacy, because it doesn't change anything in PvP. You want to mop up you pick DK. You want to play something skillful and challenging you play Sorc or Necro. It's a major reversal from say 2019 when it was the exact opposite, at some point PetSorcs used to seemingly mop up AFK, but that's some sort of balance too isn't it.

This will let it be easily studied - exactly how much more OP did DK become? Did the class go from winning 95% of encounters to 99% or not? Was my postulated "Oakensoul Lesson" complete nonsense or not?

Still I vote for giving it to Sorc/Templar/Necro and maybe a little juice for Reaper's Mark, maybe not.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Here to watch this go live, then watch my poor DKs get nerfed hard in random areas next time and be worse all around than before instead of them leaving things alone.

Pet

I'm really glad this thread exists. I agree with the 2nd comment about how it should've just been minor berserk rather than major. This class already has too much going for it comparatively to other classes, it doesn't need something this big added to it.

Ardriel

Come on Zos, the buff for the DK is bad for business! Who will want to play new Arcanist if the DK does the most damage? Not me, I'd rather play DK after you destroyed my Templar. And for that I don't need to buy a new character slot in the crown store