New Q4 system will be some kind of ‘Endless Dungeon‘

Shihp00

can't wait to play Diablo 4, I mean this new dungeon.. whatever it is

BaalMelqartu

After reading all the responses in this post, feeling a bit shocked.
When I heard the brief announcement in the stream about the "endless dungeon to do with a buddy" <--(or something along those lines), I actually experienced some excitement. I thought: "oh a 2 person mad dash through unexpected, randomly generated chambers and MOBs and OHHH, that sounds new and great! Then I read this thread with individuals pre-empting anger that this isn't a solo experience, wondering if it is player and companion only, comparing an endless dungeon co-op experience to a card game, etc and now feel a little confused.

I really like the idea they announced and it does not compare to a card game for me but now I am a bit muddled!

SeaGtGruff

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

After reading all the responses in this post, feeling a bit shocked.
When I heard the brief announcement in the stream about the "endless dungeon to do with a buddy" <--(or something along those lines), I actually experienced some excitement. I thought: "oh a 2 person mad dash through unexpected, randomly generated chambers and MOBs and OHHH, that sounds new and great! Then I read this thread with individuals pre-empting anger that this isn't a solo experience, wondering if it is player and companion only, comparing an endless dungeon co-op experience to a card game, etc and now feel a little confused.

I really like the idea they announced and it does not compare to a card game for me but now I am a bit muddled!

I think it sounds great, too. We should reserve passing judgment before it's even available to see how they're going to do it.

Seraphayel

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

FeedbackOnly

For just dps players of course because who needs a tank or healer when you can just burn

alternatelder

Seraphayel wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

Did you mean Clockwork City? That's when transmute stations were introduced. That wasn't base game, and if I recall, they weren't available to buy for a long time after, it was only available in Clockwork city.

Faulgor

I think my main issue is that an Endless Dungeon doesn't sound like a new system as they advertised for Q4, but just a new arena the kind of which we used to get with Q4 zone DLCs.

In his letter, Matt also said that players want "content that utilizes our already existing zones to add new things to do", and so far, I have seen nothing this year that would address this. It basically screams veteran overland, but alas ...

For now I just hope there's more to it that they can't talk about yet.

colossalvoids

alternatelder wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

Did you mean Clockwork City? That's when transmute stations were introduced. That wasn't base game, and if I recall, they weren't available to buy for a long time after, it was only available in Clockwork city.

It surely was CWC but I'm pretty sure station was made as a furnishing piece the same patch making it base game for guilds and people without dlc.

Seraphayel

alternatelder wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

Did you mean Clockwork City? That's when transmute stations were introduced. That wasn't base game, and if I recall, they weren't available to buy for a long time after, it was only available in Clockwork city.

As I said, I might be confusing systems or their respective content DLCs, it's been several years. But I remember these Q4 patches that had a new type of system for free (aka base game update) and introduced a new zone (aka DLC). So they did this before and Q4 this year will continue to be the same I guess.

alternatelder

colossalvoids wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

Did you mean Clockwork City? That's when transmute stations were introduced. That wasn't base game, and if I recall, they weren't available to buy for a long time after, it was only available in Clockwork city.

It surely was CWC but I'm pretty sure station was made as a furnishing piece the same patch making it base game for guilds and people without dlc.

Either way it wasn't a base game feature. A base game feature would mean it was available to everyone for free.

Seraphayel

alternatelder wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

Did you mean Clockwork City? That's when transmute stations were introduced. That wasn't base game, and if I recall, they weren't available to buy for a long time after, it was only available in Clockwork city.

It surely was CWC but I'm pretty sure station was made as a furnishing piece the same patch making it base game for guilds and people without dlc.

Either way it wasn't a base game feature. A base game feature would mean it was available to everyone for free.

... which it was, as @colossalvoids said?

"A Transmutation Station can be found within the heart of the Brass Fortress in the Clockwork City, or you can purchase a personal Transmutation Station for your home from Rolis Hlaalu, the Mastercraft Merchant found in each faction's capital city.

Do I Have to Own the Clockwork City DLC Game Pack To Transmute Items?

While the only public Transmutation Station in Tamriel is located within the confines of the Clockwork City's Brass Fortress, it is possible to purchase a personal Transmutation Station for your home from Rolis Hlaalu, the Mastercraft Merchant found in each faction's capital city.

Note that visitors can use crafting stations in homes they are invited to enter. Have a friend or guild mate who owns a Transmutation Station? Ask if you can drop by!"

Source: CLOCKWORK CITY – INTRODUCING TRANSMUTATION

alternatelder

Seraphayel wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Historically new systems, skills, etc require the latest chapter to be able to access them and that would be Necrom.

2023 is different, though. As I understand it, the Q3 improvements and Q4 new system will be available to everyone, not part of a DLC or chapter. That's why some ESO Plus subscribers feel that their subscriptions are going to be losing value this year.

Some systems were introduced in Q4 DLCs before and came as part of the free game update, others not. For example transmute came with Murkmire, if I’m not confusing anything. Transmute was a base game update while Murkmire was not.

My problem with this endless dungeon is simply that nobody asked for it. Players asked about replayable content and not an endless dungeon that means endless grind.

Did you mean Clockwork City? That's when transmute stations were introduced. That wasn't base game, and if I recall, they weren't available to buy for a long time after, it was only available in Clockwork city.

It surely was CWC but I'm pretty sure station was made as a furnishing piece the same patch making it base game for guilds and people without dlc.

Either way it wasn't a base game feature. A base game feature would mean it was available to everyone for free.

... which it was, as @colossalvoids said?

"A Transmutation Station can be found within the heart of the Brass Fortress in the Clockwork City, or you can purchase a personal Transmutation Station for your home from Rolis Hlaalu, the Mastercraft Merchant found in each faction's capital city.

Do I Have to Own the Clockwork City DLC Game Pack To Transmute Items?

While the only public Transmutation Station in Tamriel is located within the confines of the Clockwork City's Brass Fortress, it is possible to purchase a personal Transmutation Station for your home from Rolis Hlaalu, the Mastercraft Merchant found in each faction's capital city.

Note that visitors can use crafting stations in homes they are invited to enter. Have a friend or guild mate who owns a Transmutation Station? Ask if you can drop by!"

Source: CLOCKWORK CITY – INTRODUCING TRANSMUTATION

Still not considered a base game feature...

Cooperharley

Vrienda wrote: »

Aaaand my interest is gone. Cutting a dungeon and story DLC for an endless coop dungeon? Didn't they see how Torghast flopped for World of Warcraft?

If you read 99% of the actual critique from Torghast (coming from somebody that ran it countless times), a large reason why it was hated so much was because you felt essentially forced to do it multiple times per week. Have an endless coop dungeon is absolutely not a problem and if ZOS is able to properly incentivize doing this activity and freshens it up/makes it fun, I think it's a fantastic addition.

I'd much rather have a PvE gameplay loop added than another boring Q4 story release like this past year that essentially added nothing and anything is better than a card game.

Cooperharley

Vindold wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Title.

Rich talked briefly about the upcoming Q4 system, although they can’t give us more information yet he said it will be something like an infinite dungeon you can run with a buddy (we don’t know if this means companions or real player friends as of now).

It's sound not that bad especially if it's a Procedural generated dungeon, but what's important is rewards...currently I see no real reason to do dunegons\trials after you get your set pieces.

Agreed on rewards - but rewards for you are subjective clearly. Rewards as in mounts? Currently you can get skins and titles and such from dungeons and trials.

Cooperharley

Aardappelboom wrote: »

I like the idea alot, but it doens't live up to the expectations of cutting an entire zone and a dungen DLC. I was expecting something a bit more...longterm?

I don't like the "with a buddy" comment either. I didn't hear companion and I just hope it's not a mandatory 2player group thing.

People have been complaining about bug fixes for 600 years now and they finally do it in Q3 and people still complain. The forums are unreal man lmaaaoooo.

I agree on the buddy comment. I think if you can do either with another player or companion that would be fine. The thing is though - if you are able to walk into it, you just don't group up and it's fine? Literally like every other piece of content in the game, there's nothing that you HAVE to queue up for outside of PvP in order to enter it. All arenas, dungeons and trials can have companions out and you can enter solo if you wish it to be so. So just do that . . .

Zenzuki

I'm interested in this "endless" dungeon idea in general, as long as it's not built as a never ending Arena!

Just wave after wave after wave of combat! Followed by more waves of combat!

We already have Arena's and I can't imagine anyone's been requesting "endless" ones!?! (Been playing since day one and I never heard of any at least)

I am also concerned about how ZOS will implement the reward system. *Yay, I reached level 15... (congrats, here are some flowers, wood and a transmute crystal)! ..hmmm.. No thanks! There are plenty of other "fun" activities that already exist that I can do that give better rewards, faster!*

Ideally it'll need to be:

• Procedural so it's infinitely unique each time you approach the content.
• Not based solely on combat every level. i.e Puzzles on some levels, Hunt items (find the key/item/macguffin) on others, Dark levels requiring dungeoneering skills on a few, etc.
• Rewards need to be commiserate with time/effort put into doing them for hours on end.
• Be a continual mix of Biomes/Floors/whatnot so that traversing though the dungeon doesn't become "stale" over time.

I'd be really disappointed if it were to just be a glorified, never ending combat Arena.

They have things in-game like the crossbow chain, the fire rock that entices the vines to pull you to them, blocks we can smack around onto plates, (even the new class has a "portal" ability!), etc. If they utilize these kinds of things through-out the dungeon in creative ways, it would go along way towards making this feel way more different and unique then the arenas and dungeons we already have in the game.

***Imagine*** Arriving in one of the areas and it's super dark, first requiring searching blindly (or using lighted emote if you have) around to find light sources to illuminate the space, you do so and find a door, but nothing appears to be able to open the door it, searching high and low you see some bushes up high on a rock edge, mixed in is one of those fire vines, you hit with the fire rock, take the ride up and there a little "hidden" cave up there that leads to a chasm with a crossbow chain pole on the other side next to a switch. Hitting the switch, you hear a faint sound back where you were. Back in the room, the door is now open (puzzle complete). Walk through the door and a wave of enemies are waiting in the next area. Fight!

Mixing in the puzzle"y" type aspects "with" the combat, so that not every room/level/floor/biome is kill "x" things to move on would a different and unique take on things and make this type of "endless" content infinitely more fun and compelling to do!

In my humble opinion of course.

Can't wait for more info on this "tent pole" system later in the year!

Supreme_Atromancer

I'm looking forward to it!

A lot will depend on its implementation, of course- but I think that procedurally-generated dungeons have a deep history in the franchise, and I think its very fitting for ESO.

I'm an explorer at heart, and if its engaging enough, I could see it becoming my main primary content. When I played Daggerfall, I spent a lot of time grabbing random quests and then exploring a procedurally-generated dungeon for hours trying to complete the objective, get the rep, get loot and level up. I'm sure its not for everyone, but if this system allows me to play like that- in essence- it could definitely form a significant part of my gameplay loop.

Back in the day, I spent a lot of time just running around IC sewers- kinda treating it like a not-quite-infinite dungeon. Telvar were good to get, the mobs had some bite, and there was the added dynamism of potential PvP.

I've also spent a lot of time soloing and duoing dungeons; I enjoy doing them, but having the same story play over and over is a bit silly. Maybe procedurally generated, dynamic dungeons are the way to go, for me.

Challenge-wise, I think engaging, but not prog-gy would be good. Something a little less than arenas, but more than public duneons.

Cadbury

Would be more interesting if they added in a permadeath mode to make it feel even more roguelike, but I don't see that happening.

Supreme_Atromancer

Darkstorne wrote: »

And if it works well, then rolling out similar endless adventures to locations like the depths of Valenwood, or the sands of the Ailk'r and canyons of the Dak'fron in Hammerfell... yeah, I can probably get behind that.

This I think would be amazing. Rather than having just one dungeon built upon, I think there's the possibility in the phrase "tentpole system" that the tech could be used to do different themed ones across Tamriel as time goes by.

xclassgaming

Vrienda wrote: »

Aaaand my interest is gone. Cutting a dungeon and story DLC for an endless coop dungeon? Didn't they see how Torghast flopped for World of Warcraft?

100% this.

Syldras

Zenzuki wrote: »

***Imagine*** Arriving in one of the areas and it's super dark, first requiring searching blindly (or using lighted emote if you have) around to find light sources to illuminate the space, you do so and find a door, but nothing appears to be able to open the door it, searching high and low you see some bushes up high on a rock edge, mixed in is one of those fire vines, you hit with the fire rock, take the ride up and there a little "hidden" cave up there that leads to a chasm with a crossbow chain pole on the other side next to a switch. Hitting the switch, you hear a faint sound back where you were. Back in the room, the door is now open (puzzle complete). Walk through the door and a wave of enemies are waiting in the next area. Fight!

Considering the "riddles" nowadays consist of rotating a single stone until it clicks...

Minnesinger

Maybe a sort of zombie acopalypse style of game mode? To all who are not familiar with this, waves of enemies spawn until you reach some set goal. Throw in some elite monsters / boss fights.

Seraphayel

Minnesinger wrote: »

Maybe a sort of zombie acopalypse style of game mode? To all who are not familiar with this, waves of enemies spawn until you reach some set goal. Throw in some elite monsters / boss fights.

I honestly think it will be a carbon copy of WoW's Torghast. And with carbon copy I mean exactly that. It could be fun, but it really boils down to the rewards you can earn there.

What would make me play the dungeon: unique rewards you can only find there, e.g. item sets or Mythic items or something like that. Collectibles (unique costumes, mounts and pets) as well.

What would make me ignore it: reskinned collectibles or base game sets.

Caligamy_ESO

I for one am excited for it, its something that's not currently in ESO and I dunno wth Torghast is because frankly I don't care what Blizzards doing.. on anything and I never have.

I am hoping this will be a fun, actually challenging, place to level new alts.. like my inevitable brand new 2 Arcanists >;]

You'll have me in there for weeks devs if you throw in some roguelike elements into it, like selectable player buffs every few levels to make things feel more dynamic and exciting. In my daydreams I imagine something along the lines of Vampire Survivors & ESO having a baby. Let us finally ascend beyond the current CP limitations to lay waste and destruction to hordes of enemies even if its restricted to this one instance.

Heartrage

Eso doesn’t have any kind of endless or procedural content. Adding some, if done well, will only add to gameplay.

ADarklore

I could see it being great for leveling new characters, might be better than running dolmens over and over. However, the whole 'buddy' thing worries me... are they making it a 'multi-player' dungeon versus "single player with companion" type of dungeon?!? If I cannot play it solo w/companion, then I won't be playing it at all. Might as well be another 'Tales of Tribute' addition that I've done absolutely ZERO interaction with.

Let's face it... not everyone has 'friends' playing ESO and not everyone wants to spend 'endless dungeon' time with a stranger. I know many people only join guilds for trade or crafting access... NOT for 'socialization'. Thus, even those in guilds may never be able to run this if they make it 'two player' only because they don't have anyone they want to spend 'endless' time with.

Seraphayel

The moment the endless dungeon is available to non-max level players you already know it will be terrible. This should be an activity exclusively for players at level 50.

AnduinTryggva

Seraphayel wrote: »

Title.

Rich talked briefly about the upcoming Q4 system, although they can’t give us more information yet he said it will be something like an infinite dungeon you can run with a buddy (we don’t know if this means companions or real player friends as of now).

As ESO is basically the only MMORG that I play I have pretty no idea what an endless dungeon is.

It sounds however like wave after wave of mobs with some minibosses and larger bosses in between.

Dunno. What will the reward system be like? Boxes upon reaching a certain score?

Will it be a dungeon where each wave will be more difficult to beat and the objective is to reach a higher stage than other player teams?

SilverBride

I think this may be a way to give players an alternate way to level characters other than the current overland.

Since it's a dungeon I assume there will be normal and veteran modes. And since it can be done with a "buddy" I assume they can probably be solo'd, so this could give players a more difficult solo experience.

Since the current overland is fine for most players I think this is a great way to provide another choice for those who want more difficulty outside the current group veteran content. It could also provide a solo dungeon experience for those who would like that.

Jaraal

Well if it's a buddy system, then there's not likely to be a duo finder.... unless Rich expects you to be buddies by the time you are.... finished? And how does one "finish" an endless dungeon? Is there a vote every five minutes asking "is it time to quit now (yes) (no)? Seems like the ultimate troll to be able to roll with somebody for an hour and then out of the blue "See ya later bye!" as one member ports out leaving the other stuck trying to solo.