Besides being more difficult, you know what ESO is really lacking?

Silentverge

Immersion and a sense of adventure.

Let me explain, what made old school MMORPGs great was the sense that you and/or a party of other friends were surviving out in a huge unknown world of danger and mystery.
Look at WoW classic for example, there was no fast travel instantly at your fingertips, there was no dungeon finder, there were world bosses roaming around that would one shot you, party quests etc etc. My point is, THAT is missing completely from ESO and all modern MMOs in general, there is no sense of emergence in the open world, there is no sense of adventure (or very little) because you can just fast travel from one quest to the nearest town in an instant and the mobs are stupidly easy etc etc. You are essentially playing a single player game on easy mode not an MMORPG at that point.

Now regarding difficulty, there are multiple ways of creating "difficulty" in games. You have your standard enemy HP, damage output, resistances, mechanics etc etc.
You also have a different type of "difficulty" that is much more immersive IMO. That being environmental difficulty, like survival games have a hunger system, weather effects the players (being too cold or hot) dungeons or caves being pitch black requiring you to bring a torch or some sort of light source to see, having no HP regen requiring you to build a campfire to regen health etc etc.
What this adds to a game is a sense of adventure, it is a slower pace game for sure BUT it adds memorable moments and creates bonds between players that could last forever. As it is now, I have never once partied up with another random player and had a meaningful conversation in ESO (Dungeons don't count because it's just random people that you will never see again) My point is, you need a reason for players to interact with each other and create friendships in an MMO (massively MULTIPLAYER!!!) People play MMOs because they are multiplayer games, not single player. If you want single player, go play Skyrim or the millions of other single player games!

What I'm saying is, ESO needs to be more difficult for sure (more damage output, mechanics, maybe more HP etc etc) however, it also needs to be much more immersive. Create a survival difficulty that gets rid of instant fast travel anywhere, makes nights and dungeons much darker requiring a light source to traverse, add weather effects, add a hunger / thirst system of some sort... Basically, make it more of an adventure in the open world where players banding together to survive not just a massive boss fight for a quest but also, need to build a fire to stay warm and cook food, regen health and to see your surroundings and CONVERSE. NO OTHER MODERN MMORPG does this to my knowledge, and I think adding a survival type mode would put ESO in a unique category and would attract a LOT of new and old players to the game. ESO has a great questing system (best in the biz IMO) and great systems all around, but it is missing one thing... IMMERSION.



TL:DR: Make a survival mode that adds more difficulty and survival systems to add immersion to the game.

Bo0137

With that being said, ESO could've taken inspiration from TES III: Morrowind. Instead, it inherited Skyrim's gameplay. In this same way, could've taken lessons from Tibia, Vanilla WoW, Classic Runescape, did it with the "modern" MMOs. I love ESO in general but it would be so much better if we had an old school MMO in the settings of TES franchise.

XSTRONG

Me I dont care about mounts, pets and cosmetic stuff but I still want a better reward system.

I_killed_Vivec

Expected auction house, open world PvP (aka "proper" justice), buff to sorc... or increased overland difficulty.

Wasn't completely disappointed.

VaranisArano

We used to have something sort of like that. Zones got more difficult as you traveled through them and taking the wrong turn could land you in hot water with enemies much higher level than you. It was easier to have builds that weren't self-sufficient so grouping was more necessary, to say nothing of Craglorn as an adventure zone.

Problem is, that wasn't very popular. And ZOS eventually did away with all that in One Tamriel. And yeah, ESO got a lot more popular since then.

The thing is, ESO is also an Elder Scrolls game. It draws in a lot of players from Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, and the rest. Its neither a pure Single Player RPG nor a pure MMORPG, but a blend of both that won't ever satisfy either groups of purists, but does satisfy a lot of players who're in-between.

Those sort of Multi-player survival mechanics aren't a part of the TES games outside of the modding scene. Maybe the Devs will add them, maybe not.

But in the meantime, I suggest looking for the opportunities to engage meaningfully with other players. I came to ESO from Skyrim and wanted to play it like "Skyrim with IRL friends" for the longest time. Some of the things that helped me connect with online strangers:

Joining a friendly guild
PUGing in PVP (how I eventually found my PVP guild)
Saying "hi" in random dungeon groups
Offering WB dailies in zone chat
Organizing groups for the (+) content in Craglorn like Spellscar
Starting impromptu dance parties at wayshrines or kow-towing at dolmens
And so on.

ESO may or may not add the sort of immersive Multi-player activities you like. Nevertheless, there's plenty of ways to connect with other players during gameplay.

Necrotech_Master

i absolutely dislike "hunger" or "weather affecting what im wearing" systems, it makes the game far less fun for me because im now spending a lot of time focusing on essentially boring, menial, real world problems i dont want to deal with in a game to have fun

a lot of those mechanics were in conan exiles, and the thing that made the game more fun for me was straight up just turning on god mode so i could actually experience the content (i was playing on a friends server where we both had admin to just do whatever)

Destai

I mainly worry about the lack of rewards and incentives to do any in-game activity. So much is locked behind the store and its FOMO rotations that I have little to work towards besides stickerbook and title-only achievements. Once stickerbook is complete, zones become obsolete aside from skyshard runs on alts. Houses don't really serve a concrete purpose other than a creative tapestry. Furnishing recipes seem too scarce, and on console I have no way to track what I know. A lot of the really valuable items like mundus stones, vampire wells, etc. are all crown store exclusive. The whole game feels like a series of nudges to get me to keep spending money, rather than keep me playing. That's what needs to change for me. I could live without survival mechanics. It's a cool idea, but not what I'd personally like from this game in the future.

I do agree the game could be more immersive. I've tried a few immersion-focused sessions, with mixed results. I can see where the introduction of survival mechanics would help that, but I think other fixes would help improve that more immediately. Like getting rid of the ToT ad/npc, allowing us to toggle other people's pets so I don't have to hear a donkey loudly yelling over my quest dialogue. They started down this path with hiding people's pets in towns, with mixed results.

Soulshine

There are other mmos that do offer difficulty in overland. I play one of them everyday. Not naming it since technically we are not allowed to discuss other games here.... the base games zones are faceroll, but the expansion zones are quite tough especially for inexperienced players. The fact you can have your behind handed to you around any corner if you take a misstep is part of why it is fun for me. So it does exist in modern mmos, just not this one.

Silentverge

Why do you think Classic WoW did so well with its re-release? Now they are talking about expanding on the classic game because the retail version has become stale. Retail has a huge open world to explore and it's completely void of players. In classic, it was full of players out questing and finding groups to get things done, the world felt alive. It's because of the classic game formula which is missing from ESO completely. I think going back to the original MMORPG format is what will save the MMO genre overall.

tomofhyrule

Hi,

I believe you're looking for this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/590162/overland-content-feedback-thread#latest

If there's anything you have to add that hasn't been debated over in the 148 pages of the stickied thread, you can place it there. The stickied thread was made to prevent several duplicates of the same thread on the forums.

Four_Fingers

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

SilverBride

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

THIS!

Armanie

Fallout 76 has some of the survival features you mention and you're right, it creates more bonding opportunities.

Silentverge

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

That's not at all what I'm saying lol did you even read the OP?

Four_Fingers

Silentverge wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

That's not at all what I'm saying lol did you even read the OP?

I was speaking in general not about the OP, but your whole first paragraph is about WOW.

Silentverge

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Silentverge wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

That's not at all what I'm saying lol did you even read the OP?

I was speaking in general not about the OP, but your whole first paragraph is about WOW.

Yea, I was using classic (2005) version as an example of an "old school" type of MMORPG formula. Never did I say I wanted ESO to be like WoW, but the old formula worked. That was my point.

Silentverge

Armanie wrote: »

Fallout 76 has some of the survival features you mention and you're right, it creates more bonding opportunities.

Exactly! 76 is more of an elder scrolls MMO than ESO IMO. I play 76 with a few friends on a private server with no fast travel and realisticish combat and it is far FAR better than the base game. My friends also agree.

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

We used to have something sort of like that. Zones got more difficult as you traveled through them and taking the wrong turn could land you in hot water with enemies much higher level than you. It was easier to have builds that weren't self-sufficient so grouping was more necessary, to say nothing of Craglorn as an adventure zone.

Problem is, that wasn't very popular. And ZOS eventually did away with all that in One Tamriel. And yeah, ESO got a lot more popular since then.

The thing is, ESO is also an Elder Scrolls game. It draws in a lot of players from Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, and the rest. Its neither a pure Single Player RPG nor a pure MMORPG, but a blend of both that won't ever satisfy either groups of purists, but does satisfy a lot of players who're in-between.

Those sort of Multi-player survival mechanics aren't a part of the TES games outside of the modding scene. Maybe the Devs will add them, maybe not.

But in the meantime, I suggest looking for the opportunities to engage meaningfully with other players. I came to ESO from Skyrim and wanted to play it like "Skyrim with IRL friends" for the longest time. Some of the things that helped me connect with online strangers:

Joining a friendly guild
PUGing in PVP (how I eventually found my PVP guild)
Saying "hi" in random dungeon groups
Offering WB dailies in zone chat
Organizing groups for the (+) content in Craglorn like Spellscar
Starting impromptu dance parties at wayshrines or kow-towing at dolmens
And so on.

ESO may or may not add the sort of immersive Multi-player activities you like. Nevertheless, there's plenty of ways to connect with other players during gameplay.

This, puging pledges might work better than rnd as its more resistance and downtime.
Downtime is important as it let you talk and resistance also make people talk or the run fails.

Syldras

Silentverge wrote: »

there were world bosses roaming around that would one shot you, party quests etc etc. My point is, THAT is missing completely from ESO and all modern MMOs in general, there is no sense of emergence in the open world

Fallout 76.

Silentverge wrote: »

That being environmental difficulty, like survival games have a hunger system, weather effects the players (being too cold or hot) dungeons or caves being pitch black requiring you to bring a torch or some sort of light source to see, having no HP regen requiring you to build a campfire to regen health etc etc.

As an optional mode, I'd be okay with it, but normally I'd really prefer my objectives not being interrupted by profane things like eating, drinking and sleeping all the time.

Silentverge wrote: »

Basically, make it more of an adventure in the open world where players banding together to survive

I'd say this is just not what this game is, not what Tamriel is. Look at Summerset, for example - does this look like a dangerous wilderness where people fight for survival?

Silentverge wrote: »

As it is now, I have never once partied up with another random player and had a meaningful conversation in ESO (Dungeons don't count because it's just random people that you will never see again) My point is, you need a reason for players to interact with each other and create friendships in an MMO (massively MULTIPLAYER!!!)

You could join a guild or create one, search for someone to play with you here at the forums, or just chat with someone in-game and ask them if you want to adventure together if there's an occasion. People are doing things like this all the time in this game.

Silentverge wrote: »

People play MMOs because they are multiplayer games, not single player. If you want single player, go play Skyrim or the millions of other single player games!

Many players play ESO only because it's a TES game, because they love TES lore, and the last singleplayer rpg TES release is already 11 years ago now (and who knows when TES6 will be published). If you'd force everyone to group by making the game unplayable otherwise, many players would quit.

There are many things that would this game more immersive, for example letting the player have choices about quest outcomes or having the player character and their background more recognized by npcs. I think this would help a lot more with immersion than being forced to eat or being unable to get to the next quest objective because the weather is too bad or something.

Silentverge

Syldras wrote: »

Silentverge wrote: »

there were world bosses roaming around that would one shot you, party quests etc etc. My point is, THAT is missing completely from ESO and all modern MMOs in general, there is no sense of emergence in the open world

Fallout 76.

Silentverge wrote: »

That being environmental difficulty, like survival games have a hunger system, weather effects the players (being too cold or hot) dungeons or caves being pitch black requiring you to bring a torch or some sort of light source to see, having no HP regen requiring you to build a campfire to regen health etc etc.

As an optional mode, I'd be okay with it, but normally I'd really prefer my objectives not being interrupted by profane things like eating, drinking and sleeping all the time.

Silentverge wrote: »

Basically, make it more of an adventure in the open world where players banding together to survive

I'd say this is just not what this game is, not what Tamriel is. Look at Summerset, for example - does this look like a dangerous wilderness where people fight for survival?

Silentverge wrote: »

As it is now, I have never once partied up with another random player and had a meaningful conversation in ESO (Dungeons don't count because it's just random people that you will never see again) My point is, you need a reason for players to interact with each other and create friendships in an MMO (massively MULTIPLAYER!!!)

You could join a guild or create one, search for someone to play with you here at the forums, or just chat with someone in-game and ask them if you want to adventure together if there's an occasion. People are doing things like this all the time in this game.

Silentverge wrote: »

People play MMOs because they are multiplayer games, not single player. If you want single player, go play Skyrim or the millions of other single player games!

Many players play ESO only because it's a TES game, because they love TES lore, and the last singleplayer rpg TES release is already 11 years ago now (and who knows when TES6 will be published). If you'd force everyone to group by making the game unplayable otherwise, many players would quit.

There are many things that would this game more immersive, for example letting the player have choices about quest outcomes or having the player character and their background more recognized by npcs. I think this would help a lot more with immersion than being forced to eat or being unable to get to the next quest objective because the weather is too bad or something.

All good points, but if they ever added this or something similar then it would need to be a separate difficulty on a RP channel or something like that. That way the people that enjoy ESO as it is wouldn't be affected by the changes. A win/win for everyone.

Freelancer_ESO

I think you would be surprised with how many people are playing ESO not because they want an MMO but because they ran out of single player Elder Scrolls Content and ESO is the next closest option.

Difficulty can add to immersion but, it can also turn people off if the content doesn't feel like it's worth the trouble.

I quit ESO back in the earlier days when it was harder because I simply wasn't interested enough in the quests I was on for it to be worth slogging through.

I'd argue much of the newer writing in ESO is worse than the older writing which frequently didn't keep my interest before.

Thus, if the difficulty goes up much you can quickly ram into the issue that the content is not going to be worth the trouble to complete.

For example, some of the newer world bosses and public dungeons group events are more difficult to fight than the earlier additions. I skip them most of the time on most of my characters because it simply isn't worth the trouble.

BDO has a very light degree of the circumstances in some areas that change your experience and honestly for me it's probably more of a pain than it is a benefit.

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

Because many of us are playing ESO not because of it's design but because it's attached to the Elder Scrolls IP and the Elder Scrolls IP doesn't have much else coming out at the moment.

One recent poll on forums had over 70% of the game only playing ESO because it was an Elder Scrolls Game.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7776405

Granted, the forum audience is not representative of the overall population but it shouldn't really be surprising to see serious disagreement on forums with ZOS's design choices if most of us are just here because of the IP and would be gone without it.

Fata1moose

Mainline TES is more immersive they need to take lessons from that. NPC schedules where they do different things, actually have houses they sleep in would be a start.

Silentverge

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I think you would be surprised with how many people are playing ESO not because they want an MMO but because they ran out of single player Elder Scrolls Content and ESO is the next closest option.

Difficulty can add to immersion but, it can also turn people off if the content doesn't feel like it's worth the trouble.

I quit ESO back in the earlier days when it was harder because I simply wasn't interested enough in the quests I was on for it to be worth slogging through.

I'd argue much of the newer writing in ESO is worse than the older writing which frequently didn't keep my interest before.

Thus, if the difficulty goes up much you can quickly ram into the issue that the content is not going to be worth the trouble to complete.

For example, some of the newer world bosses and public dungeons group events are more difficult to fight than the earlier additions. I skip them most of the time on most of my characters because it simply isn't worth the trouble.

BDO has a very light degree of the circumstances in some areas that change your experience and honestly for me it's probably more of a pain than it is a benefit.

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

Because many of us are playing ESO not because of it's design but because it's attached to the Elder Scrolls IP and the Elder Scrolls IP doesn't have much else coming out at the moment.

One recent poll on forums had over 70% of the game only playing ESO because it was an Elder Scrolls Game.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7776405

Granted, the forum audience is not representative of the overall population but it shouldn't really be surprising to see serious disagreement on forums with ZOS's design choices if most of us are just here because of the IP and would be gone without it.

if they ever added this or something similar then it would need to be a separate difficulty on a RP channel or something like that. That way the people that enjoy ESO as it is wouldn't be affected by the changes. A win/win for everyone.

"One recent poll on forums had over 70% of the game only playing ESO because it was an Elder Scrolls Game."

If what you're saying is true that the majority of the players are only playing ESO because it is an Elder Scrolls game, isn't that a huge flaw in of itself? I mean wouldn't it make sense to have an ES game, but ALSO be fun for everyone else?

DMuehlhausen

Pantheon Rise of Fallen will be closer to what you are looking for I think. However it will probably fail as well. I was watching a recent dev video and a dungeon took them like 4 hours. the people MMOs are aimed at anymore, really most games (middle age people really) just don't have the time anymore.

I use to love sitting down and going through UBRS or LBRS, Scholomance in WoW taking like 3 or 5 hours, but now I get like 3 hours each night. If people can't sit down and feel a sense of accomplishment in 30 minutes they aren't playing.

Silentverge

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Pantheon Rise of Fallen will be closer to what you are looking for I think. However it will probably fail as well. I was watching a recent dev video and a dungeon took them like 4 hours. the people MMOs are aimed at anymore, really most games (middle age people really) just don't have the time anymore.

I use to love sitting down and going through UBRS or LBRS, Scholomance in WoW taking like 3 or 5 hours, but now I get like 3 hours each night. If people can't sit down and feel a sense of accomplishment in 30 minutes they aren't playing.

Again, you don't have to make this the experience for everyone. Maybe when you create a new character have an option for a "hardcore" or "survival" character with a harder difficulty and survival elements. That way the changes will only affect the players that want that experience. Diablo has done this for years as a hardcore option that had perma-death (which obv wouldn't work for ESO) but the same concept would apply here.

Silentverge

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Pantheon Rise of Fallen will be closer to what you are looking for I think. However it will probably fail as well. I was watching a recent dev video and a dungeon took them like 4 hours. the people MMOs are aimed at anymore, really most games (middle age people really) just don't have the time anymore.

I use to love sitting down and going through UBRS or LBRS, Scholomance in WoW taking like 3 or 5 hours, but now I get like 3 hours each night. If people can't sit down and feel a sense of accomplishment in 30 minutes they aren't playing.

Pantheon looks like hot garbage though IMO

SickleCider

You're asking for the game to be transformed into something else entirely. I get it, years ago I used to harp on about the combat being so floaty and unsatisfying, but realized fixing that would require a complete rearchitecture of the game. Requests like that are a non-starter. It's better to accept that this is the kind of game ESO is, play it for the aspects you enjoy, and find other games to scratch the other itches.

Syldras

Silentverge wrote: »

If what you're saying is true that the majority of the players are only playing ESO because it is an Elder Scrolls game, isn't that a huge flaw in of itself? I mean wouldn't it make sense to have an ES game, but ALSO be fun for everyone else?

It that's the game's intention, it is no flaw. Otherwise you could call every game that doesn't cater to everyone flawed, and that obviously doesn't make much sense.

Actually, I often see these things here at the forums; people asking why ESO does focus on "THIS" or why it doesn't have "THAT" - maybe it's just the concept of the game, maybe it's what the developers have in mind (not talking about bugs of cause)? I think to a degree every game even within a genre has its different focus. And if that focus isn't of interest for me, well, bad luck, but I could just look for something else that fits my interests more.

Agenericname

Hunger and weather, it would depend on how it was done. FO76 is a survival, or survival lite game. Its embedded into the core game. Its part of the SPECIAL system.

A lot of the feedback that they have gotten toward the need for food and water was that it was tedious. They removed the penalties for hunger and thirst and left only the absence of the corresponding buffs as the negatives.

The radstorms are interesting.

It can be interesting when its part of the game, although it would never been a main selling point for me. It would feel bolted on in ESO, at best.

That said, since private servers have been out, I have played mostly on them. I dont play often anyway, but if/when I do, its on private. I tried one of the rotating harder servers and I think that there was either one or two other players there. Youre not really meeting new people on a private server though.

I do prefer nights, and dungeons where applicable, be dark if there isnt a light source. I run an add on for this in ESO. I sort of laughed in FO76 at night vision scopes in a world that never gets dark.

There's a lot of what I feel is low hanging fruit as far as ESO and engaging content goes, but I wouldnt put hunger and/or weather at the top of my list. Just my personal preference.

SeaGtGruff

If I don't want to use fast travel, there is no one forcing me to use wayshrines.

If I want to have a regular daily cycle of eating and sleeping, there is no one preventing me from going through the motions of eating and sleeping.

Basically, if that's what is required for your immersion then it's already within your power. Each player immerses in their own way and to whatever degree they enjoy. "Forced" immersion shouldn't be necessary, and would be a turn-off for some players.

Silentverge

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

If I don't want to use fast travel, there is no one forcing me to use wayshrines.

If I want to have a regular daily cycle of eating and sleeping, there is no one preventing me from going through the motions of eating and sleeping.

Basically, if that's what is required for your immersion then it's already within your power. Each player immerses in their own way and to whatever degree they enjoy. "Forced" immersion shouldn't be necessary, and would be a turn-off for some players.

again... a separate game version.