Besides being more difficult, you know what ESO is really lacking?

VaranisArano

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

The quality for eso has spiraled into the center of the earth. The combat has gone from what it was created for, the servers are a dumpster fire, the end game players have been demonised by the devs themselves, and pvp players are the unwanted step child that gets barked at to go home and not come back, and the overland has become a running joke in the gaming community as the easiest content ever in an mmo.

I cant be satisfied with the game I grew to love since release when I see all these glaring isssues being un attended to.

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

How many people talk about the balance and scoring issues with Tales of Tribute while they're playing? Or do they play the games out, and then complain on the forums later? Should we assume then that those issues only exist on the forums?

I suggest rather that most players in game are playing the game. If they feel like vocally complaining about the experience, it's done on the forums or Reddit when they aren't playing. Many more never complain; they just quietly and gradually grow more discontented until they start playing less seriously or quit altogether. (My SO played for two years after One Tamriel with nary a complaint in zone, guild, or forums, but that was the beginning of the end for them.)

At least, that's how I do it. Craglorn zone chat doesn't care that I'm farming mats to prove that ZOS still hasn't fixed the Plentiful Harvest passive for over a year. And why type complaints when I've got mats to farm?

SilverBride

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

The quality for eso has spiraled into the center of the earth. The combat has gone from what it was created for, the servers are a dumpster fire, the end game players have been demonised by the devs themselves, and pvp players are the unwanted step child that gets barked at to go home and not come back, and the overland has become a running joke in the gaming community as the easiest content ever in an mmo.

I cant be satisfied with the game I grew to love since release when I see all these glaring isssues being un attended to.

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

How many people talk about the balance and scoring issues with Tales of Tribute while they're playing? Or do they play the games out, and then complain on the forums later? Should we assume then that those issues only exist on the forums?

I suggest rather that most players in game are playing the game. If they feel like vocally complaining about the experience, it's done on the forums or Reddit when they aren't playing. Many more never complain; they just quietly and gradually grow more discontented until they start playing less seriously or quit altogether. (My SO played for two years after One Tamriel with nary a complaint in zone, guild, or forums, but that was the beginning of the end for them.)

At least, that's how I do it. Craglorn zone chat doesn't care that I'm farming mats to prove that ZOS still hasn't fixed the Plentiful Harvest passive for over a year. And why type complaints when I've got mats to farm?

Some players do talk about Tales of Tribute while playing, mostly to be salty to their opponent if losing. There are threads about this happening. Also someone I kept getting matched with in ToT and started off with a bit of a salty conversation is now a very good friend, and we used to chat about the games we were actively playing with others to complain about the unfair ranking system until we both just got fed up with it and stopped playing, which is key. We didn't accept how bad it was so we stopped doing it.

If someone is playing the game and not complaining while they are playing then that speaks volumes to how bad they really perceive things. Because if they thought it was that bad they wouldn't be logging in and subjecting themselves to it every day.

Which brings up another point. There are a lot of posters who haven't actively played in a year or two yet they continue to post on the forums and complain about the state of the game and post about how bad it is. How do they even know?

spartaxoxo

I absolutely hate how surveys work but I still do them. I also don't complain about them all that often. But, I rarely complain about them because I feel like it's hopeless to expect change. I feel the good of this game outweighs the bad, so I tolerate the parts I don't like. It doesn't mean I don't like them.

Anyway, I don't think this game needs a survival system. It could be interesting in some ways though, like needing to be near camp fires if it gets too cold in Skyrim. I don't think it needs to involve other players if they did do something like this though.

Dr_Con

Jammy420 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

The quality for eso has spiraled into the center of the earth. The combat has gone from what it was created for, the servers are a dumpster fire, the end game players have been demonised by the devs themselves, and pvp players are the unwanted step child that gets barked at to go home and not come back, and the overland has become a running joke in the gaming community as the easiest content ever in an mmo.

I cant be satisfied with the game I grew to love since release when I see all these glaring isssues being un attended to.

how are you affected by being an endgamer that is demonised by the devs themselves, a pvper who describes themselves as being an unwanted step child, the quality of the game, the servers being a dumpster fire, and by overland all at the same time? It seems like you are taking the complaints of others and stating them here.

For myself- in its current state, ESO is not a game that I would recommend to friends. I wish this could be ameliorated, but I cannot rely on my own character's block to be working in any given trial encounter- there's been times where I'm doing vCR and Z'Maja's orb will completely ignore my block. My character in relation to the server doesn't match up in cyrodiil a lot of the time, there are instances where I'll get sucked into dark convergence that was triggered by the mage's guild stun rune, i'll break free and dodge out of dark convergence only to be sucked back into the center and flung in the air by the mage's guild rune. Overland events like Dragons were well done, but harrowstorms, geysers, and vents miss the mark entirely (they're either just dolmens or dolmens with extra steps). There needs to be scaled up versions of these encounters that increase in difficulty when more people arrive.

These are all things that you said that I've experienced, but where I see lemons, you take those lemons and squirt them into our eyes without warning...

There are things people enjoy about the game, such as: the crafting system, tales of tribute, stacking a billion heals to be invincible and hold hands in cyrodiil while being spoonfed information from zone chat by guild members in different alliances, housing, etc- so they find their enjoyment there... but while bashing the game without providing context might work on reddit for reactions and likes, it isn't constructive in the least.

in response to the people wanting a survival mode- this game doesn't even have an ironman mode, which would be far easier to code (just prevent trading to and from that character, and all CP earned on that character is through that character, not the account), and I'm sure an ironman/survival mode community exists out there, but they are typically predicated by speedrunning communities. This game gives account wide achievements upon hitting level 50, including the CP gained on your account. A speedrunning community is impossible to foster in this game, and because there is no speed running there isn't a possibility for an ironman/survival mode- while these aren't mutually exclusive, for the game to go from not having survival mode to having survival mode would require an immense dedication of resources. As for a hardcore mode, hardcore limitations are self-imposed, no one is stopping you from playing a hard-core mode.

Syldras

JKorr wrote: »

Weather effects....so, my character goes into the river outside of Windhelm and has to stay by a fire or get a room in an inn because hypothermia? Running anchors in Alik'r will kill characters with heatstroke? I do enjoy playing the game, but waiting out weather effects that will kill my character would take way too much time out of actually playing. No thank you.

The game just isn't designed for this. If cold weather could kill you, there would have to be campfires or something like that available in reasonable distances everywhere on the map, or the players would have to get a skill to create one themselves (or a magical fire or whatever). Being forced to stay inside for longer times to wait for better weather doesn't really make sense in a game.

The more I think of it, wasn't there one quest somewhere in the Skyrim base zones that had something like that? Where you were on a mountain top and had to run from fire to fire? Within that quest, it was interesting. But for the whole game to be like that, there would have to be huge redesigns.

TaSheen

Syldras wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Weather effects....so, my character goes into the river outside of Windhelm and has to stay by a fire or get a room in an inn because hypothermia? Running anchors in Alik'r will kill characters with heatstroke? I do enjoy playing the game, but waiting out weather effects that will kill my character would take way too much time out of actually playing. No thank you.

The game just isn't designed for this. If cold weather could kill you, there would have to be campfires or something like that available in reasonable distances everywhere on the map, or the players would have to get a skill to create one themselves (or a magical fire or whatever). Being forced to stay inside for longer times to wait for better weather doesn't really make sense in a game.

The more I think of it, wasn't there one quest somewhere in the Skyrim base zones that had something like that? Where you were on a mountain top and had to run from fire to fire? Within that quest, it was interesting. But for the whole game to be like that, there would have to be huge redesigns.

In The Rift, at Forelhost in the far south of the map.

VaranisArano

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

The quality for eso has spiraled into the center of the earth. The combat has gone from what it was created for, the servers are a dumpster fire, the end game players have been demonised by the devs themselves, and pvp players are the unwanted step child that gets barked at to go home and not come back, and the overland has become a running joke in the gaming community as the easiest content ever in an mmo.

I cant be satisfied with the game I grew to love since release when I see all these glaring isssues being un attended to.

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

How many people talk about the balance and scoring issues with Tales of Tribute while they're playing? Or do they play the games out, and then complain on the forums later? Should we assume then that those issues only exist on the forums?

I suggest rather that most players in game are playing the game. If they feel like vocally complaining about the experience, it's done on the forums or Reddit when they aren't playing. Many more never complain; they just quietly and gradually grow more discontented until they start playing less seriously or quit altogether. (My SO played for two years after One Tamriel with nary a complaint in zone, guild, or forums, but that was the beginning of the end for them.)

At least, that's how I do it. Craglorn zone chat doesn't care that I'm farming mats to prove that ZOS still hasn't fixed the Plentiful Harvest passive for over a year. And why type complaints when I've got mats to farm?

Some players do talk about Tales of Tribute while playing, mostly to be salty to their opponent if losing. There are threads about this happening. Also someone I kept getting matched with in ToT and started off with a bit of a salty conversation is now a very good friend, and we used to chat about the games we were actively playing with others to complain about the unfair ranking system until we both just got fed up with it and stopped playing, which is key. We didn't accept how bad it was so we stopped doing it.

If someone is playing the game and not complaining while they are playing then that speaks volumes to how bad they really perceive things. Because if they thought it was that bad they wouldn't be logging in and subjecting themselves to it every day.

Which brings up another point. There are a lot of posters who haven't actively played in a year or two yet they continue to post on the forums and complain about the state of the game and post about how bad it is. How do they even know?

First, my qualm is that judging by the lack of complaints in zone chat vs the plethora of complaints in the forums is not actually indicative of the validness of those complaints. PVP and recent PVE performance problems have been such a major problem that the Devs are implementing major fixes; that's not a problem that's confined to the forums. Can you judge the validness of Vet Trials player complaints by zone chat? Probably not. We'd have to go to the guilds and discords where they hang out.

Second, many discontented players will keep playing for a long time in that state of discontent, with or without saying anything. Maybe its that they still enjoy other parts of the game. Maybe its that they have friends who still play. Maybe they play for fun, and no longer play competitively like they used to. Maybe they used to play all the time and now its just during the new releases. Maybe they don't play the content most effected by changes or problems and so it bothers them less. But over time, that discontent adds up for each player. The reasons to log in might still outweigh the reasons not to, for a while. That's not the same as being content with the status quo or that the problems they see are just limited to the forums.

I see that cycle of excitement -> growing discontent in a lot of players on the forums, including myself. It plays out in game too, albeit more silently, because most players don't let it all hang out in zone chat. I've seen it happen with guildmates whom I knew for a while. It took two years for my SO to finally quit playing ESO, in large part because I was still playing.

I don't believe that we can say accurately say that if players aren't complaining in zone chat, therefore they are satisfied with the status quo and these issues only exist on the forums. Or, for that matter, that if they are discontented but still playing, its clearly not that bad.


While I'm writing a wall of text here I might as well explain some more context. My other MMO Warframe has much the same thing going on. If I judged by the lack of complaints I heard from my squads in missions, the zoom and boom AOE meta we had wasn't a problem. Nobody complained in game that I heard. But the many complaints on the forums, Reddit, and the data the Devs had suggested otherwise, and they substantially nerfed the ammo economy to bring AOE weapons back in line with other options (with possible further nerfs yet to come.) I hope that illustrates why I'm so cautious about assuming that "no complaints in game = players are fine with the status quo." Generally, when we're playing, we're too busy playing to gripe to squadmates. The complaints about the problems come afterwards on a more appropriate forum (pun intended) when we're less engaged with gameplay.

I think I said as much on a Reddit post, "Nobody's complained in my squads."

The answer I got was something like "What good does it do to tell the individual player? I'll take it up with DE who can actually do something about it."

Something to think about why players might not complain in game even though they're discontented with the situation, and its been borne out that it was bad enough for the Devs to take action.

SilverBride

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't believe that we can say accurately say that if players aren't complaining in zone chat, therefore they are satisfied with the status quo and these issues only exist on the forums. Or, for that matter, that if they are discontented but still playing, its clearly not that bad.

If it were really that bad SOMEONE would occasionally say SOMETHING about it in game, whether it be in zone or guild chat or wherever. I never see it.

Why would anyone spend their time playing this game if they really perceive it to be as bad as these threads indicate?

VaranisArano

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't believe that we can say accurately say that if players aren't complaining in zone chat, therefore they are satisfied with the status quo and these issues only exist on the forums. Or, for that matter, that if they are discontented but still playing, its clearly not that bad.

If it were really that bad SOMEONE would occasionally say SOMETHING about it in game, whether it be in zone or guild chat or wherever. I never see it.

Why would anyone spend their time playing this game if they really perceive it to be as bad as these threads indicate?

I already listed a bunch of reasons why people keep playing, even if they aren't happy with one or more aspects of the game. Heck, I'm not happy with Cyrodiil performance, but I'm still here for other reasons.

I think I'm just going to agree to disagree, since I can't remember the last time I complained in zone chat about the major issues I genuinely complain about on the forums, and leave it at that.

Unless you'd like me to start venting more in game? (But I don't think anyone really wants that.)

fizzylu

SilverBride wrote: »

If it were really that bad SOMEONE would occasionally say SOMETHING about it in game, whether it be in zone or guild chat or wherever. I never see it.

Why would anyone spend their time playing this game if they really perceive it to be as bad as these threads indicate?

Maybe because they all left already? haha I've for sure seen people complaining about the game in guild chats, I also know I've seen it in zone chats quite a few times as well. This was really common this past year, especially in my guild that had a lot of people focusing on vet content and trials back during U35. It was honestly sad seeing them losing the will to play. Even my friend lost her group that she was regularly playing through the content with because they all quit and ultimately she did as well. ESO was her first MMO and I never thought I'd see her walk away from it.... and it's not just because to her the game got that bad (she does think it's pretty bad now and doesn't like Zenimax though), but seeing how it was affecting and chasing away other players definitely added to why she decided to completely quit the game as soon as she did. I truly think she would have held on a bit longer if it wasn't for the people talking in guild chat about how unhappy they were with the direction the game had gone.

Tannus15

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't believe that we can say accurately say that if players aren't complaining in zone chat, therefore they are satisfied with the status quo and these issues only exist on the forums. Or, for that matter, that if they are discontented but still playing, its clearly not that bad.

If it were really that bad SOMEONE would occasionally say SOMETHING about it in game, whether it be in zone or guild chat or wherever. I never see it.

Why would anyone spend their time playing this game if they really perceive it to be as bad as these threads indicate?

the first thing I do on all my characters is turn off Zone chat.
can't stand it.

What I can speak to is how many trials guilds have shut their doors. Honestly my own guild was having discussions about shutting down because we're so very over it right now.

You've got every trials focused streamer talking about the issues the game is having.

I get it, the content you personally enjoy about eso is largely unaffected, but for large parts of the player base things are not ok right now.

You don't get to invalidate our experience with the game when we raise these issues by saying "but no one talks about this in zone chat".

BretonMage

Survival modes are tedious. I'd never play a game with forced survival elements. If it was purely optional and only experienced on the player's side, I guess I wouldn't really object, but that would also mean dev resources wasted on something that I don't see being too popular. And also, wouldn't it consistently need a lot of extra server calculations?

Jammy420 wrote: »

No wandering bosses

The havrocels in the Deadlands were fun for a while but now the Deadlands is practically deserted and no one fights them anymore. If they could maintain interest in a zone or world event, it might be good to have.

They should do more world events like dragons, where players farm the events. Elsweyr is an older DLC than Blackwood/Deadlands but I still see far more players fighting dragons than havrocels.

SilverBride

Tannus15 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't believe that we can say accurately say that if players aren't complaining in zone chat, therefore they are satisfied with the status quo and these issues only exist on the forums. Or, for that matter, that if they are discontented but still playing, its clearly not that bad.

If it were really that bad SOMEONE would occasionally say SOMETHING about it in game, whether it be in zone or guild chat or wherever. I never see it.

Why would anyone spend their time playing this game if they really perceive it to be as bad as these threads indicate?

the first thing I do on all my characters is turn off Zone chat.
can't stand it.

What I can speak to is how many trials guilds have shut their doors. Honestly my own guild was having discussions about shutting down because we're so very over it right now.

You've got every trials focused streamer talking about the issues the game is having.

I get it, the content you personally enjoy about eso is largely unaffected, but for large parts of the player base things are not ok right now.

You don't get to invalidate our experience with the game when we raise these issues by saying "but no one talks about this in zone chat".

I don't turn off zone chat and I haven't heard anyone complaining. I'm in a guild that runs weekly veteran trials and haven't heard any of them complaining. And I don't watch streamers because I play my own game and make up my own mind how I feel about it. That doesn't invalidate anyone's experience nor do their experiences invalidate mine.

joergino

Tannus15 wrote: »

What I can speak to is how many trials guilds have shut their doors. Honestly my own guild was having discussions about shutting down because we're so very over it right now.

You've got every trials focused streamer talking about the issues the game is having.

I don't believe trials guilds shut down because ESO is too easy.

NettleCarrier

Honestly, I really wish this game never had wayshrines. While I'm kinda lazy and use the heck out of these, there's other games out there that force players to walk or take built-in transportation to travel and the world gets built around these things. Let me try to explain... If I simply stop using wayshrines, nothing changes except friction in my own gameplay. If wayshrines stopped existing, then community hubs would develop as a necessity and based on how useful the location of the hub is. Now this is pretty impractical without a contiguous map, but we might get there someday. Imagine if farming a zone like Murkmire involved a fair bit of travel from the popular areas and thus was lucrative. You might even have a situation where an alt character lives in a specific region so it can take care of any business you have there for you instead of just porting your main everywhere in seconds. I really think something interesting could develop out of this.

Jammy420

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

The quality for eso has spiraled into the center of the earth. The combat has gone from what it was created for, the servers are a dumpster fire, the end game players have been demonised by the devs themselves, and pvp players are the unwanted step child that gets barked at to go home and not come back, and the overland has become a running joke in the gaming community as the easiest content ever in an mmo.

I cant be satisfied with the game I grew to love since release when I see all these glaring isssues being un attended to.

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

Its almost like new players dont see the issues as clearly as the veterans.

Go to cyrodiil. Go to imperial city. Go somewhere outside your comfort zone. Join a big raiding guild. Youll hear it then. Obviously people only doing overland and who are new to the game arent going to complain or even notice the issues.

Lumsdenml wrote: »

If you want more difficult content, go to Crrodiil, the original end game.

The only thing difficult about cyro is trying to get your skills to fire off.

Jammy420

Dr_Con wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

The quality for eso has spiraled into the center of the earth. The combat has gone from what it was created for, the servers are a dumpster fire, the end game players have been demonised by the devs themselves, and pvp players are the unwanted step child that gets barked at to go home and not come back, and the overland has become a running joke in the gaming community as the easiest content ever in an mmo.

I cant be satisfied with the game I grew to love since release when I see all these glaring isssues being un attended to.

how are you affected by being an endgamer that is demonised by the devs themselves, a pvper who describes themselves as being an unwanted step child, the quality of the game, the servers being a dumpster fire, and by overland all at the same time? It seems like you are taking the complaints of others and stating them here.

For myself- in its current state, ESO is not a game that I would recommend to friends. I wish this could be ameliorated, but I cannot rely on my own character's block to be working in any given trial encounter- there's been times where I'm doing vCR and Z'Maja's orb will completely ignore my block. My character in relation to the server doesn't match up in cyrodiil a lot of the time, there are instances where I'll get sucked into dark convergence that was triggered by the mage's guild stun rune, i'll break free and dodge out of dark convergence only to be sucked back into the center and flung in the air by the mage's guild rune. Overland events like Dragons were well done, but harrowstorms, geysers, and vents miss the mark entirely (they're either just dolmens or dolmens with extra steps). There needs to be scaled up versions of these encounters that increase in difficulty when more people arrive.

These are all things that you said that I've experienced, but where I see lemons, you take those lemons and squirt them into our eyes without warning...

There are things people enjoy about the game, such as: the crafting system, tales of tribute, stacking a billion heals to be invincible and hold hands in cyrodiil while being spoonfed information from zone chat by guild members in different alliances, housing, etc- so they find their enjoyment there... but while bashing the game without providing context might work on reddit for reactions and likes, it isn't constructive in the least.

in response to the people wanting a survival mode- this game doesn't even have an ironman mode, which would be far easier to code (just prevent trading to and from that character, and all CP earned on that character is through that character, not the account), and I'm sure an ironman/survival mode community exists out there, but they are typically predicated by speedrunning communities. This game gives account wide achievements upon hitting level 50, including the CP gained on your account. A speedrunning community is impossible to foster in this game, and because there is no speed running there isn't a possibility for an ironman/survival mode- while these aren't mutually exclusive, for the game to go from not having survival mode to having survival mode would require an immense dedication of resources. As for a hardcore mode, hardcore limitations are self-imposed, no one is stopping you from playing a hard-core mode.

These are all issues who have been covered -in length- in several posts over the years. People have already gone on in length about these issues, and have been ignored. So I dont have to go on a long diatribe about it, because its common knowledge. But nice bait.

Androrix

I agree with OP's sentiment. There are few encounters that give me that "survival" feeling. I can either roll through the game or there are huge parts of the game I simply cannot do. Not nearly. The balance in the middle is missing. But as people point out, this ship has sailed. The developers are catering to people who want the game to be really easy, and end gamers. Not those in the middle. That is just the way it is.

Androrix

SilverBride wrote: »

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

Hmmm...can't agree with you on this. The developer sponsored forum is exactly the place to communicate with other players and express concerns about the game. Most people are on here becasue they care about the game. I play and enjoy the game, but there are still some aspects I am not satisfied with. I don't chat about that in zone when playing...because I am playing...but I will engage in discussion here.

All that said, I do dislike the purely negative and bitter, hate threads. Especially threads that read "I played this game for years but I hate it now that I can only parse 99.5k--I am leaving, and so are all my friends, and my dog, and my cat."

Constructive criticism, on the other hand, expressed in polite terms, is always welcome.

zaria

Silentverge wrote: »

Why do you think Classic WoW did so well with its re-release? Now they are talking about expanding on the classic game because the retail version has become stale. Retail has a huge open world to explore and it's completely void of players. In classic, it was full of players out questing and finding groups to get things done, the world felt alive. It's because of the classic game formula which is missing from ESO completely. I think going back to the original MMORPG format is what will save the MMO genre overall.

Well the later VR zones in the release ESO was empty. I liked them as they was not as limited in XP ranges as the 1-50 zones who it was so easy to out level because you did dungeons and PvP, but most did not.
As for overland difficulty, bosses should be harder, or an option for that. Its stupid that the end boss after an long quest has the hp of an troll. Later chapters has gone in this direction who is good.
Now the leveled zones let you leave an boss and go back later this is lost with one tamriel, this is why overland is so easy.
For standard mobs its not an issue for me, just finished Cadwin's gold again first was after launch so forgotten so much.
Slow run as no reason to hurry, tended to talk to all named npc and reading relevant lore.

But run into so many new players having issues, more so ESO is horrible at guiding new players.
Has level 15 ask for help in Craglorn group delves because an quest took them to Craglorn.
Now I get that Morrowind and Skyrim drew new players to the game.
But default hiding stuff like prologues and invite quests would make sense for me.

SilverBride

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

Its almost like new players dont see the issues as clearly as the veterans.

Go to cyrodiil. Go to imperial city. Go somewhere outside your comfort zone. Join a big raiding guild. Youll hear it then. Obviously people only doing overland and who are new to the game arent going to complain or even notice the issues.

I do go to Cyrodiil. A friend and I have been running around there lately gathering skyshards and trying to unlock keeps so we can get to the ones we need. The only zone chat I've seen there are players looking for groups or announcing something is under attack.

And the guild I am in runs weekly veteran trials. I've never heard a complaint about it.

SilverBride

Androrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

Hmmm...can't agree with you on this. The developer sponsored forum is exactly the place to communicate with other players and express concerns about the game. Most people are on here becasue they care about the game. I play and enjoy the game, but there are still some aspects I am not satisfied with. I don't chat about that in zone when playing...because I am playing...but I will engage in discussion here.

All that said, I do dislike the purely negative and bitter, hate threads. Especially threads that read "I played this game for years but I hate it now that I can only parse 99.5k--I am leaving, and so are all my friends, and my dog, and my cat."

Constructive criticism, on the other hand, expressed in polite terms, is always welcome.

Unfortunately there are very few posts giving polite constructive criticism, and positive feedback is met with hostility.

VaranisArano

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What strikes me the most about these threads is that these issues only exist on the forum. I play every day and I'm all over the place, in new and older zones alike, and I have never heard anyone in game complain about any of these things. People are playing and enjoying themselves, and if they were that horrified by the state of the game someone would be saying something in game.

Its almost like new players dont see the issues as clearly as the veterans.

Go to cyrodiil. Go to imperial city. Go somewhere outside your comfort zone. Join a big raiding guild. Youll hear it then. Obviously people only doing overland and who are new to the game arent going to complain or even notice the issues.

(Edited: sorry, borked my quote formatting)

I'm not sure how helpful going to Cyrodiil zone chat is going to be in terms of proving the problem. It's also my experience that most Cyrodiil zone chat revolves around LFG and what's happening on the map.

My guild's TeamSpeak on the other hand...that was where we complained about the performance. There's no time for typing complaints about the lag into zone chat in the middle of a big primetime battle when we're fighting for our lives. But even within my guild, we had hugely varying experiences. My teammates would be lagging, while I'd rubberbanding. By the time they couldn't cast skills well, I'd have crashed. And then you've got other aspects like the PVP tests and server upgrades where some people saw big improvements and others didn't, and ultimately ZOS said they didn't see a difference in (bad) performance on their end.

Zone/Guild chat isn't a great objective measure of the severity of a problem.


However, we have a better, more objective measure: are the Devs taking action?

Cyrodiil lag is a big enough problem that the Devs have done numerous tests to assess the cause and now embarked on a lengthy process of rearchitecting the servers in hopes of addressing it. All while slashing the Cyrodiil population to a fraction of what it used to be, reworking CP, and tweaking the way numerius calculations are handled in an attempt to cope in the meantime.

Whether or not Zone Chat or particular Guilds are complaining about PVP performance is irrelevant, really, when the Devs are taking action due to how bad it is. That tells us it's bad.

And I'd say the same about the other recent issues.

Deteriorating PVE performance, especially in instanced trials? That's been a hardware issue in the past and I'm sure ZOS is whiteknuckledly hoping their end-of-life hardware replacements aren't delayed again.

Bugs affecting the core of combat? The Devs were trying (and failing) to nail down that block bug for weeks.


So I think the supposition that "if it were really that bad, players would say so/quit" isn't relevant, because that's a question each player can answer only for themselves. People stay for all sorts of reasons. People go for all sorts of reasons too.

"Is it bad enough for the Devs to take action?" is a whole different matter. It's a completely practical measure for whether a problem really only exists on the forums...or it's a real problem requiring Dev attention. Turns out that ESO does have a lot of pervasive, impactful issues that the Devs are paying attention to, even if players aren't complaining in zone chat.

Silentverge

Castagere wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Why can't we be satisfied with ESO for what it is, what it is not is WOW.

[snip]

[snip] smh, again... never once did i say i wanted eso to be wow. i used classic wow as an example of the old school mmo formula. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Diminish

Some of this I could get on board with. How great would it have been to be able to craft parts of your house, and actually build it... from a blank slate. Like most survival games do. I would actually partake in housing if that was the case. Even something as basic as Fallout76's base building (yes, even Fallout 76 did it better than ESO in my opinion!). Instead we got a one stop shop in the crown store, and for your one time small contribution of $100 (unfurnished) you can have this nice new shiny Earthtear Cavern. Many missed opportunities, likely due to corporate greed.

On the other hand, if I wanted to play a survival game, I would play a survival game. Some things could have been done differently, but I don't want to micromanage making sure my character does not become dehydrated, or get sun burnt. We have a food/drink mechanic and it works well enough for what the game needs it to do. If you want to worry about getting cold, go hang out in stage 2 of DSA.