It is time to nerf mag DK

axi

Xarc wrote: »

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

Hmm, typical, thinking a class is overpowered and asking for nerfs.
[...]
Bonus fact, molten whip + fossilize + Take Flight is good for single targets however is still less single target burst than night blade builds. I have been in those shoes on my dk, it really hurts.

another Dk saying dk doesnt need nerf.

NB is good at 1vs1 because the class has been made for this but :
nb doesnt have the sustain of DK
nb doesnt have the armor bonus & resitances of DK
nb doesnt have self heals of DK
nb doesnt have poison/flame damage bonus of DK

nb just the opposite of DK, it has good crit bonuses and has executionner because it's the assassin class without dot and with direct damages because of the assassin style.

you can't compare both.

another Dk saying dk doesnt need nerf.

You don't have to be a Dk to say class doesn't need a nerf. There is plenty of people who would rather see other classes buffed than Dk nerfed especially that ZoS is known for sledgehammer approach when it comes to nerfs.

NB is good at 1vs1 because the class has been made for this but

Nightblade is not just good at 1v1, it's also very good at 1vX, it's possibly one of the better classes at it especially when given advantegous terrain.

nb doesnt have the sustain of DK

Both classes have really decent sustain it's just the different approach that class kits offer them. Dragonknight have no bonuses to stam or mag regen while having passives like battle roar or combustion when nb have very nice buffs to recoveries from class passive and minor buffs from twisting path resulting with 30% more stam and mag regen than DK. Nb also have other means to reduce resource drain, for example phantasmal escape that reduces cost of dodging or cloak which used properly allows to deal way easier with increased cost of consecutive dodge rolls. Nightblade sustain is more streamlined when DK's sustain is more about ups and downs.

nb doesnt have the armor bonus & resitances of DK

The only armor bonus that DK have and nb do not is 1,6k resistance buff from DK passive. It's hardly a game changer and can be counterargued by nb's HP buff for each shadow ability slotted. It's also worth to notice when talking about nb's resistances that this class have the best way of getting major resolve in the game because it's passively applied through the use of any shadow abilities meaning that You are left with 1 more slot on Your bars and You can put things like camo hunter there.

nb doesnt have self heals of DK

Nightblade actually have better spammable burst selfheal than DK. Healthy offering is atm the strongest class spammable burstheal. Many people glorify coagulating blood but they seem to not know that base scaling for that ability is 20% smaller than for healthy offering. Some may argue that Dk have 12% healing recived bonus but healthy offering provides minor vitality and each siphoning ability slotted gives 2% more healing so healing bonuses on DK and nb are actually similar. Healthy offering is also way cheaper than coag and it's also a crossheal when coag is just a selfheal. DK of course overall have the edge when it comes to healing due to things like battle roar passive but let's not forget DK is low mobility brawler type of a playstyle when nb have evasivness and mobility to support his defense so it would be atleast wierd to expect same levels of healing.

nb doesnt have poison/flame damage bonus of DK

Nightblade have universal 10% dmg bonus on concealed weapon. It also have 3k pen passive. Fun fact about that passive is that it adds penetration bonus even if You are not flanking enemy You are fightng with but there is some enemy that stands with his side or back to You much further away.

you can't compare both

You said that after You actually compared both.

Urzigurumash

Xbox Day 1 / 5k+ hrs StamDK

Nerf it into dust, I had more fun when nobody else played the class. Tier list after tier list we were ranked the worst, man those were the days.

More seriously though if anybody wants to participate in a long discussion about how Corrosive should be adjusted, please confront some of my strong opinions in this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

OBJnoob

I agree with Urzi. I miss my stamdk... First toon I ever excelled at. Now whenever I try to play him I just feel compelled to use all the flaming cheese that is magdk. And people sometimes say that "oh no, hybrid dk is the strongest," but what the heck does that even mean? What stam abilities am I supposed to use? Noxious breath?? Terrific... I'll use FoO, Whip, and barf on my enemies. The disgusting green color is how you know I'm a stamdk. Woopwoop.

gariondavey

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree with Urzi. I miss my stamdk... First toon I ever excelled at. Now whenever I try to play him I just feel compelled to use all the flaming cheese that is magdk. And people sometimes say that "oh no, hybrid dk is the strongest," but what the heck does that even mean? What stam abilities am I supposed to use? Noxious breath?? Terrific... I'll use FoO, Whip, and barf on my enemies. The disgusting green color is how you know I'm a stamdk. Woopwoop.

Hybrid dk is indeed the strongest.
My bar set up is
Rending slashes, whip, flames of oblivion, venom claw/noxious breath, fossilize, leap
Race against time, vigor, coag, rally, hardened armor, corrosive

I run 2 offensive 5 piece sets that interact extremely well together and put out absurd pressure, vate 2h, markyn, and 1 magma. Jewels of misrule and a damage mundas.

Funny how, with no defensive sets and just 1 magma + regen food, you can still be very tanky. Don't even get me started on the damage of this build...lol

MerguezMan

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

- "Always had huge resistance and best sustain" : Sorry, but that is false. Unless you sacrifice weapon trait for "charged" (which is rather bad if you consider damage alternatives), DK sustain relies mainly on ultimate, where most classes have a built-in regen boost. As a DK, you will also be 100% destroyed if you don't build on healing and actively block in combat.

- Petrify/Fossilize : I guess you missed something in the concept of "unblockable CC"... guess what else, that's absolutely not the only skill in such case, and these skills are not DK-exclusive. Also keep in mind this skill has very limited range, when other unblockable stuns have far wider reach.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/390550/undodgeable-and-unblockable-skills-list-need-your-help

- Whip : I totally agree, DKs should have whip that costs stamina only, that's long overdue. On the damage side, you have to build your character for it and get used to the stacks mechanic to get 8k per hit, that's not a guaranteed thing, when other classes have an instant burst or finisher skill.
ie. Whip has a base of 4370 flame damage at 3 stacks for 1148 Mag + 1148 Stam + the cost of other skills to generate the stacks, where Radiant Oppression has a base of 3369 damage that gets boosted by up to 500% depending on target health (so potentially wayyyy more than 4370 damage) for "only" 2800 Mag

- Dragon leap : has been bugged for months in PvP, and is not the lower cost ult. Also, relying on an ultimate to kill people may not be the best strategy in the world when this ultimate is also source of sustain, and the timing might be tricky if you also expect to use Fossilize and a fully stacked whip.
Just for comparison sake, Ferocious leap is at base 4228 damage for 125 Ult, where Dawnbreaker of smithing is at base 4015 instant damage + 4812 damage over 6s for ... 125 Ult.

Your post really looks like someone who has never fully played DK, else you'd figure out the class is not overpowered.
You just met skilled DK players.

Thecompton73

Well today's patch notes answered how the devs feel about this, it is indeed time.....to buff DK's damage.

master_vanargand

ESO has strong DK and the weak other class.
Sounds like a boring game to me, but the creators seem to enjoy it.

Gray_howling_parrot

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

I'd rather all the other classes be buffed than you start nerfing good classes. Essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution.

OBJnoob

Jaustink wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

I'd rather all the other classes be buffed than you start nerfing good classes. Essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution.

An untimely statement after we just found out DKs are getting major berserk. Nerf the crap out of them.

Because we see now that sorcs, temps, and necros are not getting any meaningful help.

Rex-Umbra

Dk is beyond insane overturned on live and zos plans to buff them.

MidniteOwl1913

The buffs are really good news! I guess I can bring my DK back out of mothballs (where it has been since U35). Looking forward to it! I love all the fire-based animations. My sorc is pretty good, but nowhere near as much fun to play as my DK.

axi

I am not so sure is that major berserk really that big of a deal. Major berserk is strong but chain is a horrible ability to use. Cluncky, slow and unreliable. I would rather go with new mist than with a chain as a DK.

OBJnoob

Major berserk isn't always strong but it WILL be strong on a class that has minor brutality and 0 other percentage modifiers.

Like if you gave NB major berserk it wouldn't be a full 10%, maybe not even close, but for DK it will be.

Urzigurumash

OBJnoob wrote: »

Major berserk isn't always strong but it WILL be strong on a class that has minor brutality and 0 other percentage modifiers.

Like if you gave NB major berserk it wouldn't be a full 10%, maybe not even close, but for DK it will be.

There is another percentage modifier and I blame it as the principal culprit of the overpowering of DK - the revised World in Ruin. Also there's a nearly unique Damage Taken modifier - the Flame Penalty on Vamp. No surprise why "FlameDK" is the strongest, there is no melee Poison Direct Damage other than a Poison Glyph or the Direct portions of Noxious / V Claw, and also nobody plays Werewolf except those two Wolfgods on our server.

I'll leave it to those who know the math better than me how exactly this all pans out. It's always seemed to me that 5% Damage Done + 5% Damage Taken is stronger than 10% Damage Done or 10% Damage Taken.

Urzigurumash

gariondavey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree with Urzi. I miss my stamdk... First toon I ever excelled at. Now whenever I try to play him I just feel compelled to use all the flaming cheese that is magdk. And people sometimes say that "oh no, hybrid dk is the strongest," but what the heck does that even mean? What stam abilities am I supposed to use? Noxious breath?? Terrific... I'll use FoO, Whip, and barf on my enemies. The disgusting green color is how you know I'm a stamdk. Woopwoop.

Hybrid dk is indeed the strongest.
My bar set up is
Rending slashes, whip, flames of oblivion, venom claw/noxious breath, fossilize, leap
Race against time, vigor, coag, rally, hardened armor, corrosive

I run 2 offensive 5 piece sets that interact extremely well together and put out absurd pressure, vate 2h, markyn, and 1 magma. Jewels of misrule and a damage mundas.

Funny how, with no defensive sets and just 1 magma + regen food, you can still be very tanky. Don't even get me started on the damage of this build...lol

Might work for you but Rending Slashes is off-meta on Xbox NA. There it's 3 skills - Flames of Obliv, Whip, and the Fire morph of Leap, not the Physical morph. Might be true that you can pull this off with stacking Stam as well as Mag but, Xbox NA, it's quite assuredly FlameDK which is in front, even if using Noxious / V Claw / Corrosive.

Why? Again, I believe it's the apparently strong combination of the revised World in Ruin and Vamp's Flame Damage Taken Penalty, more so than the slight tune-ups to Seething Fury and Battle Roar. In fact I think Seething Fury had a higher number when its stacking function was first added, I could be wrong, but this was when many of us slotted Whip just for the passive effect on StamDK.

But yes it's hybrid, I think DK is the first class that's really post-Mag/Stam dichotomy.

Let's be clear though, the Flaming Eyes effect is excellent and should be an essential part of any DK's kit - as should Molten Armaments. I would've just given Molten Armaments Minor Berserk, I think, again unless everybody gets Major Berserk.

Thecompton73

Jaustink wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

I'd rather all the other classes be buffed than you start nerfing good classes. Essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution.

The reason MagDK (really hybrid) is fun is it allows you to stomp the other classes, even against more skilled players sometimes. I recently leveled one up and I'm honestly pretty terrible with it still but I've fought other DK's that smoke me on my NB or Sorc and I've either beat them or made them run away because they knew they couldn't win the fight. Probably pretty fair to assume they had more fun with they fought me on my other toons.
So it doesn't matter whether you bring them down or bring up the rest, once that's done they won't be as subjectively fun to play because other classes will be competitive enough that the DK loses as often as they win. And if everyone got brought up to DK's current sustain/ healing/mitigation values they'd stalemate 10 times more than either.
Like is actually pressing the button for whip when you've got three stacks of seething more fun when it hits for 15K rather than 11K? If you get the kill when you do it, then yes, it is. But if the person your playing against absorbs that 15K damage, instantly heals to full and this cycle repeats over and over till you give up and walk away from the stalemate is it really much more fun to hit for an extra 4K?

Nihilr

"Want to become a 1vX'er? Just be a DragonKnight! It's so easy a monkey can do it, just whip all other classes to death with all the sustain to outlast your opponents!"

--Cyrodiil's dying reach for active players again.

gariondavey

Urzigurumash wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree with Urzi. I miss my stamdk... First toon I ever excelled at. Now whenever I try to play him I just feel compelled to use all the flaming cheese that is magdk. And people sometimes say that "oh no, hybrid dk is the strongest," but what the heck does that even mean? What stam abilities am I supposed to use? Noxious breath?? Terrific... I'll use FoO, Whip, and barf on my enemies. The disgusting green color is how you know I'm a stamdk. Woopwoop.

Hybrid dk is indeed the strongest.
My bar set up is
Rending slashes, whip, flames of oblivion, venom claw/noxious breath, fossilize, leap
Race against time, vigor, coag, rally, hardened armor, corrosive

I run 2 offensive 5 piece sets that interact extremely well together and put out absurd pressure, vate 2h, markyn, and 1 magma. Jewels of misrule and a damage mundas.

Funny how, with no defensive sets and just 1 magma + regen food, you can still be very tanky. Don't even get me started on the damage of this build...lol

Might work for you but Rending Slashes is off-meta on Xbox NA. There it's 3 skills - Flames of Obliv, Whip, and the Fire morph of Leap, not the Physical morph. Might be true that you can pull this off with stacking Stam as well as Mag but, Xbox NA, it's quite assuredly FlameDK which is in front, even if using Noxious / V Claw / Corrosive.

Why? Again, I believe it's the apparently strong combination of the revised World in Ruin and Vamp's Flame Damage Taken Penalty, more so than the slight tune-ups to Seething Fury and Battle Roar. In fact I think Seething Fury had a higher number when its stacking function was first added, I could be wrong, but this was when many of us slotted Whip just for the passive effect on StamDK.

But yes it's hybrid, I think DK is the first class that's really post-Mag/Stam dichotomy.

Let's be clear though, the Flaming Eyes effect is excellent and should be an essential part of any DK's kit - as should Molten Armaments. I would've just given Molten Armaments Minor Berserk, I think, again unless everybody gets Major Berserk.

Rending slashes, especially when buffed with master dw, is one of the biggest carry sets in the game. If people really aren't running that on Xbox, that's pretty concerning.

Brrrofski

gariondavey wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree with Urzi. I miss my stamdk... First toon I ever excelled at. Now whenever I try to play him I just feel compelled to use all the flaming cheese that is magdk. And people sometimes say that "oh no, hybrid dk is the strongest," but what the heck does that even mean? What stam abilities am I supposed to use? Noxious breath?? Terrific... I'll use FoO, Whip, and barf on my enemies. The disgusting green color is how you know I'm a stamdk. Woopwoop.

Hybrid dk is indeed the strongest.
My bar set up is
Rending slashes, whip, flames of oblivion, venom claw/noxious breath, fossilize, leap
Race against time, vigor, coag, rally, hardened armor, corrosive

I run 2 offensive 5 piece sets that interact extremely well together and put out absurd pressure, vate 2h, markyn, and 1 magma. Jewels of misrule and a damage mundas.

Funny how, with no defensive sets and just 1 magma + regen food, you can still be very tanky. Don't even get me started on the damage of this build...lol

Might work for you but Rending Slashes is off-meta on Xbox NA. There it's 3 skills - Flames of Obliv, Whip, and the Fire morph of Leap, not the Physical morph. Might be true that you can pull this off with stacking Stam as well as Mag but, Xbox NA, it's quite assuredly FlameDK which is in front, even if using Noxious / V Claw / Corrosive.

Why? Again, I believe it's the apparently strong combination of the revised World in Ruin and Vamp's Flame Damage Taken Penalty, more so than the slight tune-ups to Seething Fury and Battle Roar. In fact I think Seething Fury had a higher number when its stacking function was first added, I could be wrong, but this was when many of us slotted Whip just for the passive effect on StamDK.

But yes it's hybrid, I think DK is the first class that's really post-Mag/Stam dichotomy.

Let's be clear though, the Flaming Eyes effect is excellent and should be an essential part of any DK's kit - as should Molten Armaments. I would've just given Molten Armaments Minor Berserk, I think, again unless everybody gets Major Berserk.

Rending slashes, especially when buffed with master dw, is one of the biggest carry sets in the game. If people really aren't running that on Xbox, that's pretty concerning.

Shhhh

Urzigurumash

gariondavey wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree with Urzi. I miss my stamdk... First toon I ever excelled at. Now whenever I try to play him I just feel compelled to use all the flaming cheese that is magdk. And people sometimes say that "oh no, hybrid dk is the strongest," but what the heck does that even mean? What stam abilities am I supposed to use? Noxious breath?? Terrific... I'll use FoO, Whip, and barf on my enemies. The disgusting green color is how you know I'm a stamdk. Woopwoop.

Hybrid dk is indeed the strongest.
My bar set up is
Rending slashes, whip, flames of oblivion, venom claw/noxious breath, fossilize, leap
Race against time, vigor, coag, rally, hardened armor, corrosive

I run 2 offensive 5 piece sets that interact extremely well together and put out absurd pressure, vate 2h, markyn, and 1 magma. Jewels of misrule and a damage mundas.

Funny how, with no defensive sets and just 1 magma + regen food, you can still be very tanky. Don't even get me started on the damage of this build...lol

Might work for you but Rending Slashes is off-meta on Xbox NA. There it's 3 skills - Flames of Obliv, Whip, and the Fire morph of Leap, not the Physical morph. Might be true that you can pull this off with stacking Stam as well as Mag but, Xbox NA, it's quite assuredly FlameDK which is in front, even if using Noxious / V Claw / Corrosive.

Why? Again, I believe it's the apparently strong combination of the revised World in Ruin and Vamp's Flame Damage Taken Penalty, more so than the slight tune-ups to Seething Fury and Battle Roar. In fact I think Seething Fury had a higher number when its stacking function was first added, I could be wrong, but this was when many of us slotted Whip just for the passive effect on StamDK.

But yes it's hybrid, I think DK is the first class that's really post-Mag/Stam dichotomy.

Let's be clear though, the Flaming Eyes effect is excellent and should be an essential part of any DK's kit - as should Molten Armaments. I would've just given Molten Armaments Minor Berserk, I think, again unless everybody gets Major Berserk.

Rending slashes, especially when buffed with master dw, is one of the biggest carry sets in the game. If people really aren't running that on Xbox, that's pretty concerning.

I haven't seen many using it since its heyday pre-Murkmire or whenever before DW Enchants were halved. You can fight DK after DK and you'll only see Whip, Flames, and Ferocious Leap as consistently used skills. Noxious is expendable with the amount of Wardens out there, good chance any one opponent already has both Breaches.

Of course everybody had the Axes of this set, myself included, since Axes were made to be useless in PvP maybe people just haven't been motivated to farm it when there's so many viable Crafted and RotW sets.

Maybe it is "most effective technique available" but on Xbox NA it's far from "most popular technique used". I try it now and then on Necro with unsatisfactory results, but I'm a scrub and retired from DK.

LukosCreyden

It is time to nerf everything.
All classes and skill lines and races.
I believe it is time to nerf EVERYTHING to the point that absolutely nothing is fun and satisfying to play anymore.
Nerf gear sets and nerf skills. Nerf enchantments and potions.

As an elite player of The ESO Scrolls Online, I believe that to achieve true balance, we must all have heavy attack ONLY builds. All skills and equipment will be for roleplay flavor only.

We can start with DK, but afterwards we must nerf NB who will take the top spot. There CANNOT be a top spot. Once we are done with NB, we must rally for Warden to be nerfed.

Or, we could buff the classes that are lacking so that they can keep up with DK.

TechMaybeHic

LukosCreyden wrote: »

It is time to nerf everything.
All classes and skill lines and races.
I believe it is time to nerf EVERYTHING to the point that absolutely nothing is fun and satisfying to play anymore.
Nerf gear sets and nerf skills. Nerf enchantments and potions.

As an elite player of The ESO Scrolls Online, I believe that to achieve true balance, we must all have heavy attack ONLY builds. All skills and equipment will be for roleplay flavor only.

We can start with DK, but afterwards we must nerf NB who will take the top spot. There CANNOT be a top spot. Once we are done with NB, we must rally for Warden to be nerfed.

Or, we could buff the classes that are lacking so that they can keep up with DK.

To be fair, they already started doing that. In PvE, it's even gone so far as heavy attack builds, that just happen to not work in PvP.

As they just add anything at all now to the classes that are good; it just adds further resentment to people who have been hoping for the classes that are not very good.

The funniest part, though; is most
vocal complaints have come from people playing 1 of the other of the top 3 classes.

binho

It seems like another good patch for DK...
And my poor necromancer can't even get major sorcery from a class skill

Pet

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Please don't ask for anymore nerfs.. it always ends up being a sledgehammer...

A sledgehammer is what DK needs right now tbh.

OP is talking from a PvP perspective, so I'd like to add my own from a PvE main's standpoint also.
As it stands right now, the vast majority of serious endgame groups will slot 1x DK dps for z'ens, 1x necro dps for elemental catalyst, and then 6 DK dps. You'll also have a DK tank, a necro tank, a warden healer, and a blade or sorc healer to make up for the lack of crit buff on dps classes.
DK right now is hitting by far the highest dps overall on any AoE fight, period, and they are VERY close to being top singletarget also, only beaten out by magplar and stamblade in that regard, and it's really not significant even then.
There's a huge problem right now where people just aren't rostering people unless they're a DK, and we're just in this super boring and monotonous era of 8 DKs in a group, not to mention all the points mentioned for PvP also.
The class is incredibly overtuned across the board, I can't even believe they're considering adding MORE damage to it. Crazy times.

But yes, destroy the class a bit please, it's far too good at everything in both PvP and PvE alike.

MEBengalsFan2001

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

I'd rather all the other classes be buffed than you start nerfing good classes. Essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution.

The reason MagDK (really hybrid) is fun is it allows you to stomp the other classes, even against more skilled players sometimes.

Statements like this is when a class is not balanced.

Thecompton73

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

I'd rather all the other classes be buffed than you start nerfing good classes. Essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution.

The reason MagDK (really hybrid) is fun is it allows you to stomp the other classes, even against more skilled players sometimes.

Statements like this is when a class is not balanced.

Yes that was the sentiment behind my statement, which was a direct reply to the person who said "essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution."
As I said in another thread regarding DK's being on a higher plain of existence that other classes and people calling for those classes to be elevated to the same level as DK's: So everyone's healing, mitigation and resource generation should be so out of whack no one ever dies on any class? People really need to think when they use the whole" bring every one up because I'm not in favor of nerfing anything".

Rainingblood

I got killed by MagDK. Must nerf MagDK!

Seriously though, sometimes it's about learning how to counter. Also, 2k crit resist isn't that much, and those 30k resists drop if you're getting hit with noxious breath.

There are counters, or maybe a better CP setup, gear, etc. MagDKs are not OP and do not need to be nerfed.

MEBengalsFan2001

Thecompton73 wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

pvp perspective here.
The magdk always had huge resistance and best sutain, and now you gave him too much power to kill people for like 1 year or more.

the fact you cant block/dodge petrify/focilize combined to whip on offbalance target makes it extremely powerfull.
whip alone is anyway too much powerfull, with sometimes 8k per hit against people with 30k armor and 2k crit resist is too much, and I dont even talk if target is vamp

Then you add a powerfull ultimate you cant dodge (DragonLeap) with the lower cost of all, like a finisher

This class is over powered, it is time for nerf

ofcourse, I can see people coming and saying the class is OK.
If you take alone each skill, yes it is. But in pvp everything is combo, like focilize+whip then dragonleap, for an exemple

I'd rather all the other classes be buffed than you start nerfing good classes. Essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution.

The reason MagDK (really hybrid) is fun is it allows you to stomp the other classes, even against more skilled players sometimes.

Statements like this is when a class is not balanced.

Yes that was the sentiment behind my statement, which was a direct reply to the person who said "essentially you're saying that magdk is too fun to play against other classes. Just make the other classes more viable and fun and you fix the issue. Dumbing all classes down is never a good solution."
As I said in another thread regarding DK's being on a higher plain of existence that other classes and people calling for those classes to be elevated to the same level as DK's: So everyone's healing, mitigation and resource generation should be so out of whack no one ever dies on any class? People really need to think when they use the whole" bring every one up because I'm not in favor of nerfing anything".

Game needs a baseline for damage and cost for an ability. And from there based on the ability being single target vs multi, direct vs DoT, is it an AoE or a target ability, casting time/channeling, does it buff the player, does it debuff a target, does it heal, etc... And that is just for damaging abilities.

Looking at the DK, NB and Warden I can clearly see that the devs haven't done this as a NB you get an ability that buffs your weapon and spell damage that ends up with the strongest single target burst ability in the game. As for Warden you get a strong AoE burst ability that also provides a major and minor debuff along with it hitting a 2nd time. DK get a burst, DoT and debuff ability all in one. And cost wise DK abilities are a bit more expensive than a templar but templar has a harder time with resource management.

Based on what I am seeing in the game currently, it seem like the same issues I saw on DCUO and that was the Devs doing the class balancing tend to over tune the classes they play and under tune the classes they dislike.

I'm stating what I have above because why should Templar Empowering Sweep only provide a few extra DoTs instead of providing Major Berserk for 10 seconds. The DK if the Devs wanted to buff them further minor berserk would have been a better add to Empowering Chain given that its an ability and not an ultimate.