It is time to nerf mag DK

The_Titan_Tim

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

It’s the sustain and healing that are the problem, you can spam Ash Cloud with one Reduce Magicka Cost glyph to have unlimited Stamina, every time your Burning or Poisoned procs you get more resources and your ultimate gives you resources back aswell.

Coagulating Blood is the best heal in the entire game which makes very little sense, I thought healing was a Templar thing? Why does over half of the DK toolkit heal them while they are fighting with unlimited sustain, massive mitigation, and best ultimates? Great on their own as they provide the best of BOTH defense and offense together, yet give back a ton of resources?

Ferocious Leap gives a full bar shield when you do a massive AoE knockback burst of damage.

Corrosive gives you 97% damage mitigation and 100% direct damage penetration for 10 seconds… all while able to build ultimate for your next one.

Standard is the only ultimate in a generally balanced state because of the lower % to damage increases and mitigation while inside of it.

As I mentioned earlier, healing and sustain are way too powerful on the class right now, I don’t care if they can dot you up or tank some damage, it’s when they’re able to keep up the pressure indefinitely and heal through all of your burst… that’s when it becomes a problem.

Half of your argument was about their ultimates, the same can be said for any class though. It's not like they're using all three ultimates on you at once.

How can the same be said for any class? No other ultimates in the game have equal levels of offense, defense and sustain tied to the same ability, you ward for as much damage as you do with Ferocious Leap, and you mitigate 97% of incoming damage and deal 100% of your direct damage using Corrosive and get a massive boost to all three resources to take greater advantage of the already huge advantage you have for using an ultimate…

Northern Storm has 10% mitigation through Major Protection,

Crescent Sweep gets 5% through Minor Protection from a passive,

Frozen Colossus, the Necro damage ultimate gets a stun,

Soul Tether, which gives a burst heal and a semi decent heal-over-time…

Sorcerer has Overload? Atronach?

I’m confused here.

"You mitigate 97% of incoming dmg and deal 100% of Your direct dmg" ? Sorry but that is not how math works.

100% - 3% = 97%?
100% damage - 0 resistances = 100% damage?

Something not adding up here?

See I have a DK, I play every class. If you want more help with math, let me know and I’ll get on any class and share some more screenshots.

Yeah like I've said already, that's not how math works.

Limiting incoming dmg to 3% of Your HP is not the same as reducing incoming dmg by 97%. For corrosive to reach 97% mitigation something would have to literally one shot You without corrosive. So how many thing in PvP hits You for 30k+ with single hit? There is a big difference between reducing someting down to 3% or reducing something down to 3% OF YOUR HEALTH.

Resistances are just one factor out of many playing role in calculating final dmg done, and it's not like You have 0 penetration before using corrosive.

[snip]

Most people running a Corrosive build do have zero penetration, as they build into ult-gen, and you’re trying to pick apart the fact that you’re mitigating 97% of damage to Max Health in any given attack. Protection is mitigation, Major Protection mitigates 10% of your damage, your argument is flawed. Zero damage after 3% is less than whatever damage you would have been taking, therefore falling in line with the definition of the word “mitigate.”



And if you really want to try to pick apart my claim of 97% in PvP, you can get a Spectral Bow to hit over 30k easily and if you’re running over 30k health builds in PvP, my advice to you would be to take the training wheels off.

I don’t only understand math, I understand English too, I can pull up any definition from the dictionary, feel free to ask!

[edited to remove quote]

axi

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

It’s the sustain and healing that are the problem, you can spam Ash Cloud with one Reduce Magicka Cost glyph to have unlimited Stamina, every time your Burning or Poisoned procs you get more resources and your ultimate gives you resources back aswell.

Coagulating Blood is the best heal in the entire game which makes very little sense, I thought healing was a Templar thing? Why does over half of the DK toolkit heal them while they are fighting with unlimited sustain, massive mitigation, and best ultimates? Great on their own as they provide the best of BOTH defense and offense together, yet give back a ton of resources?

Ferocious Leap gives a full bar shield when you do a massive AoE knockback burst of damage.

Corrosive gives you 97% damage mitigation and 100% direct damage penetration for 10 seconds… all while able to build ultimate for your next one.

Standard is the only ultimate in a generally balanced state because of the lower % to damage increases and mitigation while inside of it.

As I mentioned earlier, healing and sustain are way too powerful on the class right now, I don’t care if they can dot you up or tank some damage, it’s when they’re able to keep up the pressure indefinitely and heal through all of your burst… that’s when it becomes a problem.

Half of your argument was about their ultimates, the same can be said for any class though. It's not like they're using all three ultimates on you at once.

How can the same be said for any class? No other ultimates in the game have equal levels of offense, defense and sustain tied to the same ability, you ward for as much damage as you do with Ferocious Leap, and you mitigate 97% of incoming damage and deal 100% of your direct damage using Corrosive and get a massive boost to all three resources to take greater advantage of the already huge advantage you have for using an ultimate…

Northern Storm has 10% mitigation through Major Protection,

Crescent Sweep gets 5% through Minor Protection from a passive,

Frozen Colossus, the Necro damage ultimate gets a stun,

Soul Tether, which gives a burst heal and a semi decent heal-over-time…

Sorcerer has Overload? Atronach?

I’m confused here.

"You mitigate 97% of incoming dmg and deal 100% of Your direct dmg" ? Sorry but that is not how math works.

100% - 3% = 97%?
100% damage - 0 resistances = 100% damage?

Something not adding up here?

See I have a DK, I play every class. If you want more help with math, let me know and I’ll get on any class and share some more screenshots.

Yeah like I've said already, that's not how math works.

Limiting incoming dmg to 3% of Your HP is not the same as reducing incoming dmg by 97%. For corrosive to reach 97% mitigation something would have to literally one shot You without corrosive. So how many thing in PvP hits You for 30k+ with single hit? There is a big difference between reducing someting down to 3% or reducing something down to 3% OF YOUR HEALTH.

Resistances are just one factor out of many playing role in calculating final dmg done, and it's not like You have 0 penetration before using corrosive.

[snip]

Most people running a Corrosive build do have zero penetration, as they build into ult-gen, and you’re trying to pick apart the fact that you’re mitigating 97% of damage to Max Health in any given attack. Protection is mitigation, Major Protection mitigates 10% of your damage, your argument is flawed. Zero damage after 3% is less than whatever damage you would have been taking, therefore falling in line with the definition of the word “mitigate.”



And if you really want to try to pick apart my claim of 97% in PvP, you can get a Spectral Bow to hit over 30k easily and if you’re running over 30k health builds in PvP, my advice to you would be to take the training wheels off.

I don’t only understand math, I understand English too, I can pull up any definition from the dictionary, feel free to ask!

Most people running with corrosive still reaches 10-15k penetration because otherwise You are becoming one trick pony relying too heavily on corrosive and Your DoT pressure during whole fights and direct dmg pressure outside of corrosive window is very often too little to take people down and since You are one trick pony You are becoming too predictable for anyone with brain. In Cyro or BGs You need pressure also outside of corrosive. And it's not like that 10-15k pen is hard to achieve. Major+minor fracture are extremly easy to get (noxious breath+absorb stamina glyph with 1 charged weapon), 1 light piece and 2 maces already put You at 13k which is almost half of average resistances people have in PvP. Even when You are built into ulti gen You still want to have some base penetration.

No You are not mitigating 97% of damage to max health in any given attack. Since You continue to embarass Yourself let me explain to You how excatly corrosive works since You have no idea about that. Lets assume You have 33k HP, 3% of that will be around 1k. So now when You use corrosive everything that would normally hit You under that 1k value will continue to hit for the same amount and everything that would hit You for more than 1k will hit You for excatly 1k. If certain DoT is ticking on You for 1k or less, that DoT gets 0% mitigation from corrosive. If some ability hits You for 2k, it will be lowered to 1k resulting with 50% mitigation, if something would hit You for 3k it will be 67% mitigation and so on, up to 97% mitigation reached when something would hit You normally for 33k. You will get 97% mitigation only when something without corrosive would hit You for 100% of Your health. Just having some basic imagination in territory of math would allow You to understand how insane statement about 97% mitigatin in any attack is. DK health bar would literally not move during corrosive if that would be the case but somehow DKs die sometimes even when they have corrosive active. You seriously have no idea what You are talking about when it comes to mitigations.

Saying that You can easily get hit by 30k+ assasins will is a big overstatement. Hits like that happen very rarely especially against DKs.

Running with around 30k HP on a brawler setup no matter the class, is a standard these days. Saying it's training wheels is kinda silly but You are free to prove me wrong and provide some video of You running with 20k HP and doing some 1vX or even winning a duel against anyone with some PvP experience.

[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

The_Titan_Tim

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

It’s the sustain and healing that are the problem, you can spam Ash Cloud with one Reduce Magicka Cost glyph to have unlimited Stamina, every time your Burning or Poisoned procs you get more resources and your ultimate gives you resources back aswell.

Coagulating Blood is the best heal in the entire game which makes very little sense, I thought healing was a Templar thing? Why does over half of the DK toolkit heal them while they are fighting with unlimited sustain, massive mitigation, and best ultimates? Great on their own as they provide the best of BOTH defense and offense together, yet give back a ton of resources?

Ferocious Leap gives a full bar shield when you do a massive AoE knockback burst of damage.

Corrosive gives you 97% damage mitigation and 100% direct damage penetration for 10 seconds… all while able to build ultimate for your next one.

Standard is the only ultimate in a generally balanced state because of the lower % to damage increases and mitigation while inside of it.

As I mentioned earlier, healing and sustain are way too powerful on the class right now, I don’t care if they can dot you up or tank some damage, it’s when they’re able to keep up the pressure indefinitely and heal through all of your burst… that’s when it becomes a problem.

Half of your argument was about their ultimates, the same can be said for any class though. It's not like they're using all three ultimates on you at once.

How can the same be said for any class? No other ultimates in the game have equal levels of offense, defense and sustain tied to the same ability, you ward for as much damage as you do with Ferocious Leap, and you mitigate 97% of incoming damage and deal 100% of your direct damage using Corrosive and get a massive boost to all three resources to take greater advantage of the already huge advantage you have for using an ultimate…

Northern Storm has 10% mitigation through Major Protection,

Crescent Sweep gets 5% through Minor Protection from a passive,

Frozen Colossus, the Necro damage ultimate gets a stun,

Soul Tether, which gives a burst heal and a semi decent heal-over-time…

Sorcerer has Overload? Atronach?

I’m confused here.

"You mitigate 97% of incoming dmg and deal 100% of Your direct dmg" ? Sorry but that is not how math works.

100% - 3% = 97%?
100% damage - 0 resistances = 100% damage?

Something not adding up here?

See I have a DK, I play every class. If you want more help with math, let me know and I’ll get on any class and share some more screenshots.

Yeah like I've said already, that's not how math works.

Limiting incoming dmg to 3% of Your HP is not the same as reducing incoming dmg by 97%. For corrosive to reach 97% mitigation something would have to literally one shot You without corrosive. So how many thing in PvP hits You for 30k+ with single hit? There is a big difference between reducing someting down to 3% or reducing something down to 3% OF YOUR HEALTH.

Resistances are just one factor out of many playing role in calculating final dmg done, and it's not like You have 0 penetration before using corrosive.

[snip]

Most people running a Corrosive build do have zero penetration, as they build into ult-gen, and you’re trying to pick apart the fact that you’re mitigating 97% of damage to Max Health in any given attack. Protection is mitigation, Major Protection mitigates 10% of your damage, your argument is flawed. Zero damage after 3% is less than whatever damage you would have been taking, therefore falling in line with the definition of the word “mitigate.”



And if you really want to try to pick apart my claim of 97% in PvP, you can get a Spectral Bow to hit over 30k easily and if you’re running over 30k health builds in PvP, my advice to you would be to take the training wheels off.

I don’t only understand math, I understand English too, I can pull up any definition from the dictionary, feel free to ask!

Most people running with corrosive still reaches 10-15k penetration because otherwise You are becoming one trick pony relying too heavily on corrosive and Your DoT pressure during whole fights and direct dmg pressure outside of corrosive window is very often too little to take people down and since You are one trick pony You are becoming too predictable for anyone with brain. In Cyro or BGs You need pressure also outside of corrosive. And it's not like that 10-15k pen is hard to achieve. Major+minor fracture are extremly easy to get (noxious breath+absorb stamina glyph with 1 charged weapon), 1 light piece and 2 maces already put You at 13k which is almost half of average resistances people have in PvP. Even when You are built into ulti gen You still want to have some base penetration.

No You are not mitigating 97% of damage to max health in any given attack. Since You continue to embarass Yourself let me explain to You how excatly corrosive works since You have no idea about that. Lets assume You have 33k HP, 3% of that will be around 1k. So now when You use corrosive everything that would normally hit You under that 1k value will continue to hit for the same amount and everything that would hit You for more than 1k will hit You for excatly 1k. If certain DoT is ticking on You for 1k or less, that DoT gets 0% mitigation from corrosive. If some ability hits You for 2k, it will be lowered to 1k resulting with 50% mitigation, if something would hit You for 3k it will be 67% mitigation and so on, up to 97% mitigation reached when something would hit You normally for 33k. You will get 97% mitigation only when something without corrosive would hit You for 100% of Your health. Just having some basic imagination in territory of math would allow You to understand how insane statement about 97% mitigatin in any attack is. DK health bar would literally not move during corrosive if that would be the case but somehow DKs die sometimes even when they have corrosive active. You seriously have no idea what You are talking about when it comes to mitigations.

Saying that You can easily get hit by 30k+ assasins will is a big overstatement. Hits like that happen very rarely especially against DKs.

Running with around 30k HP on a brawler setup no matter the class, is a standard these days. Saying it's training wheels is kinda silly but You are free to prove me wrong and provide some video of You running with 20k HP and doing some 1vX or even winning a duel against anyone with some PvP experience.

[snip]

If you build into critical damage Nightblade; 30k Spectral Bows are quite common. Through the use of Coagulating Blood, you can mask your Corrosive Armor, so that one trick pony is quite unpredictable. And not once in my prior post did I state that you would be ignoring DoTs while in Corrosive, nor would you expect them as DoTs are a Dragonknight’s toolkit, aswell as burst, healing, mitigation, and sustain, they have it all where other classes struggle with making DoT builds, even Necromancer, a class that has a 10% passive increase to them… pales in comparison.

Don’t get me going on the 30k argument, we could make an entire new discussion about this one… I eat people alive with a 24k health Stamplar quite often in duels, I’ve got clips against some of the best players on Xbox NA, how would you like to receive them?

[snip] The only two other classes that are “Meta” right now are Warden and Nightblade and both due to a new passive 10% increase to ALL of their damage. Dragonknight hasn’t needed it, and still competes whereas other classes have fallen behind drastically.

Edit: Putting an “Up-to” 97% mitigation is not going to detract from anything said prior, and is a weak argument in and of itself [snip]

[snip]

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Zero damage after 3% is less than whatever damage you would have been taking, therefore falling in line with the definition of the word “mitigate.”

[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

axi

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

axi wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

It’s the sustain and healing that are the problem, you can spam Ash Cloud with one Reduce Magicka Cost glyph to have unlimited Stamina, every time your Burning or Poisoned procs you get more resources and your ultimate gives you resources back aswell.

Coagulating Blood is the best heal in the entire game which makes very little sense, I thought healing was a Templar thing? Why does over half of the DK toolkit heal them while they are fighting with unlimited sustain, massive mitigation, and best ultimates? Great on their own as they provide the best of BOTH defense and offense together, yet give back a ton of resources?

Ferocious Leap gives a full bar shield when you do a massive AoE knockback burst of damage.

Corrosive gives you 97% damage mitigation and 100% direct damage penetration for 10 seconds… all while able to build ultimate for your next one.

Standard is the only ultimate in a generally balanced state because of the lower % to damage increases and mitigation while inside of it.

As I mentioned earlier, healing and sustain are way too powerful on the class right now, I don’t care if they can dot you up or tank some damage, it’s when they’re able to keep up the pressure indefinitely and heal through all of your burst… that’s when it becomes a problem.

Half of your argument was about their ultimates, the same can be said for any class though. It's not like they're using all three ultimates on you at once.

How can the same be said for any class? No other ultimates in the game have equal levels of offense, defense and sustain tied to the same ability, you ward for as much damage as you do with Ferocious Leap, and you mitigate 97% of incoming damage and deal 100% of your direct damage using Corrosive and get a massive boost to all three resources to take greater advantage of the already huge advantage you have for using an ultimate…

Northern Storm has 10% mitigation through Major Protection,

Crescent Sweep gets 5% through Minor Protection from a passive,

Frozen Colossus, the Necro damage ultimate gets a stun,

Soul Tether, which gives a burst heal and a semi decent heal-over-time…

Sorcerer has Overload? Atronach?

I’m confused here.

"You mitigate 97% of incoming dmg and deal 100% of Your direct dmg" ? Sorry but that is not how math works.

100% - 3% = 97%?
100% damage - 0 resistances = 100% damage?

Something not adding up here?

See I have a DK, I play every class. If you want more help with math, let me know and I’ll get on any class and share some more screenshots.

Yeah like I've said already, that's not how math works.

Limiting incoming dmg to 3% of Your HP is not the same as reducing incoming dmg by 97%. For corrosive to reach 97% mitigation something would have to literally one shot You without corrosive. So how many thing in PvP hits You for 30k+ with single hit? There is a big difference between reducing someting down to 3% or reducing something down to 3% OF YOUR HEALTH.

Resistances are just one factor out of many playing role in calculating final dmg done, and it's not like You have 0 penetration before using corrosive.

[snip].

Most people running a Corrosive build do have zero penetration, as they build into ult-gen, and you’re trying to pick apart the fact that you’re mitigating 97% of damage to Max Health in any given attack. Protection is mitigation, Major Protection mitigates 10% of your damage, your argument is flawed. Zero damage after 3% is less than whatever damage you would have been taking, therefore falling in line with the definition of the word “mitigate.”



And if you really want to try to pick apart my claim of 97% in PvP, you can get a Spectral Bow to hit over 30k easily and if you’re running over 30k health builds in PvP, my advice to you would be to take the training wheels off.

I don’t only understand math, I understand English too, I can pull up any definition from the dictionary, feel free to ask!

Most people running with corrosive still reaches 10-15k penetration because otherwise You are becoming one trick pony relying too heavily on corrosive and Your DoT pressure during whole fights and direct dmg pressure outside of corrosive window is very often too little to take people down and since You are one trick pony You are becoming too predictable for anyone with brain. In Cyro or BGs You need pressure also outside of corrosive. And it's not like that 10-15k pen is hard to achieve. Major+minor fracture are extremly easy to get (noxious breath+absorb stamina glyph with 1 charged weapon), 1 light piece and 2 maces already put You at 13k which is almost half of average resistances people have in PvP. Even when You are built into ulti gen You still want to have some base penetration.

No You are not mitigating 97% of damage to max health in any given attack. Since You continue to embarass Yourself let me explain to You how excatly corrosive works since You have no idea about that. Lets assume You have 33k HP, 3% of that will be around 1k. So now when You use corrosive everything that would normally hit You under that 1k value will continue to hit for the same amount and everything that would hit You for more than 1k will hit You for excatly 1k. If certain DoT is ticking on You for 1k or less, that DoT gets 0% mitigation from corrosive. If some ability hits You for 2k, it will be lowered to 1k resulting with 50% mitigation, if something would hit You for 3k it will be 67% mitigation and so on, up to 97% mitigation reached when something would hit You normally for 33k. You will get 97% mitigation only when something without corrosive would hit You for 100% of Your health. Just having some basic imagination in territory of math would allow You to understand how insane statement about 97% mitigatin in any attack is. DK health bar would literally not move during corrosive if that would be the case but somehow DKs die sometimes even when they have corrosive active. You seriously have no idea what You are talking about when it comes to mitigations.

Saying that You can easily get hit by 30k+ assasins will is a big overstatement. Hits like that happen very rarely especially against DKs.

Running with around 30k HP on a brawler setup no matter the class, is a standard these days. Saying it's training wheels is kinda silly but You are free to prove me wrong and provide some video of You running with 20k HP and doing some 1vX or even winning a duel against anyone with some PvP experience.

[snip]

If you build into critical damage Nightblade; 30k Spectral Bows are quite common. Through the use of Coagulating Blood, you can mask your Corrosive Armor, so that one trick pony is quite unpredictable. And not once in my prior post did I state that you would be ignoring DoTs while in Corrosive, nor would you expect them as DoTs are a Dragonknight’s toolkit, aswell as burst, healing, mitigation, and sustain, they have it all where other classes struggle with making DoT builds, even Necromancer, a class that has a 10% passive increase to them… pales in comparison.

Don’t get me going on the 30k argument, we could make an entire new discussion about this one… I eat people alive with a 24k health Stamplar quite often in duels, I’ve got clips against some of the best players on Xbox NA, how would you like to receive them?

[snip] The only two other classes that are “Meta” right now are Warden and Nightblade and both due to a new passive 10% increase to ALL of their damage. Dragonknight hasn’t needed it, and still competes whereas other classes have fallen behind drastically.

Edit: Putting an “Up-to” 97% mitigation is not going to detract from anything said prior, and is a weak argument in and of itself [snip] You’re not getting 97% every time, but any value over 3% is mitigated.

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Zero damage after 3% is less than whatever damage you would have been taking, therefore falling in line with the definition of the word “mitigate.”

[snip]

You've said that "you can get a Spectral Bow to hit over 30k easily" but now You are saying that it's possible only on a specific setup so You kinda contradict Yourself. And no even on crit dmg build nb 30k assasins will are not common. They happen here and there but far from calling them common. You need multiple factors to combine to have a chance to get 30k AW and Dk actually lowers that chance.

What do You even mean that I can mask my corrosive with the use of coag? This is the most silly argument that I've seen. No coag won't mask anything. Seriously You think that the way to counter corrosive it to watch enemy DK character for a corrosive visual animation? First there is a sound cue for corrosive that is recognisable from a mile second everyone who plays this game for a while knows excatly playpatterns of a DK that is made fully around corrosive. And even if You would want to just focus on visual cue there is a green cloud surrounding DK who used corrosive visible easily even when coag is active.

I never said You mentioned anything abouts DoTs and corrosive. I just used DoT as an example of how mitigation works on different dmg tooltips during corrosive. Based on some of Your responses I think You dont quite understand lots of things I've said because Your arguments sometimes are just completly off topic.

24k HP? What a training wheels... Why not 20k?...

I don't care what Your opinion about DK is nor I was giving You my opinion about DK. The only point I was making is that Your claims about 97% dmg mitigation and 100% dmg from corrosive are false and math behind them is bad.

Fact that it's up to 97% is my main argument to prove that Your math is wrong since You were claiming corrosive provides 97% mitigation to any attack which is complete false. 97% is almost never reached and You just didn't understood corrosive description. You've made false claims based on that lack of knowledge and You repeated that false claims in the previous post where You've said "you’re mitigating 97% of damage to Max Health in any given attack". Fact that it's falling in line with deficition of word "mitigate" doesn't change a fact You were specifically saying about 97% mitigation not just about mitigating dmg.

I don't know where do You find me defennding anything about DK. I simply explained to You that Your math is wrong and provided explanations why it's wrong. I never brought up any opinion about DK strenght in our conversation let alone any defense of the class. If You accusing me of defending a DK simply because I said Your math is incorrect than that sounds like an issue on Your side.

[edited to remove quote]

Urzigurumash

X*0.03<>Y*0.97

If you wanna talk to a DK main defending his precious baby read everything I wrote in this thread and have at it:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Vevvev

How to kill Corrosive Armor users is simple... Damage over time overload.

What I mean by that is basically take advantage of the fact every single source of damage is limited by a certain % of max health by throwing as many independent sources of damage as you can. You do not use ultimates that deal all their damage in one go, you do not use burst combos which will slam into that wall of defense until the armor fades, and you do not focus on using a spammable alone.

You stack as many damage over time effects you can, you make sure you have 2 enchantments that do damage procing on them at once, you run sets that apply DoTs like Plaguebreak or increase the damage you do like Draugrkin, and you make sure you never skip a light attack in the weave.

You do the PvE strat of combine as many sources of damage as you can and treat your target like a training dummy rather than trying to get a few big giant sources of damage in. I know this is hard for classes like Nightblade, but complain about your lack of DoTs as this ultimate was designed to counter big heavy sources of damage.

Corrosive Armor's mitigation isn't impregnable, and to survive the incoming damage you need to use buffs like Major and Minor Protection, dare I say it because I just got through arguing with people about it..... stage 3 vampire's Undeath, blocking, and other sources of unique damage mitigation that don't boost your resistances like the Resolve buffs.

Caribou77

Take the damage mitigation/shield off of Corrosive and Leap.

Start there.

Regardless of your yes/no perspective, there’s an obvious reason there are way more DKs than any other class in battlegrounds. Newer/mediocre players can do well on the class. A seasoned/skilled DK nearly always beats every other class. Too much offensive & defensive power combined. You battle a Dk down to 15% health, and they either hit leap or corrosive then reset with almost full health. Meanwhile, your resources are depleted. Good Dks know this very well.

The_Titan_Tim

Vevvev wrote: »

How to kill Corrosive Armor users is simple... Damage over time overload.

What I mean by that is basically take advantage of the fact every single source of damage is limited by a certain % of max health by throwing as many independent sources of damage as you can. You do not use ultimates that deal all their damage in one go, you do not use burst combos which will slam into that wall of defense until the armor fades, and you do not focus on using a spammable alone.

You stack as many damage over time effects you can, you make sure you have 2 enchantments that do damage procing on them at once, you run sets that apply DoTs like Plaguebreak or increase the damage you do like Draugrkin, and you make sure you never skip a light attack in the weave.

You do the PvE strat of combine as many sources of damage as you can and treat your target like a training dummy rather than trying to get a few big giant sources of damage in. I know this is hard for classes like Nightblade, but complain about your lack of DoTs as this ultimate was designed to counter big heavy sources of damage.

Corrosive Armor's mitigation isn't impregnable, and to survive the incoming damage you need to use buffs like Major and Minor Protection, dare I say it because I just got through arguing with people about it..... stage 3 vampire's Undeath, blocking, and other sources of unique damage mitigation that don't boost your resistances like the Resolve buffs.

Corrosive Armor is only being used as the example right now of the most extreme example of Dragonknight over-performance.

There is nothing that can be said, that will make it okay sounding to any reasonable player, that you should get all of that damage prevention, full penetration on your direct damage, and a massive amount of all three resources back for ANY duration; all while building your ultimate back within that form.

You can’t naturally regain ultimate in Overload, you can’t build it in Blood Scion, Bone Goliath, or Werewolf, why can you continue benefitting from ult-gen while in Corrosive?

You say to just kill the Dragonknight with DoTs, as if any other class comes even remotely close to having the capability of making a survivable dot build that has the same on demand burst needed as that class.

Warden is the only class I can remotely think of that’s even close to having the same DoT potential and it’s due to an over-performing, yet restrictive, passive.

The_Titan_Tim

Urzigurumash wrote: »

X*0.03<>Y*0.97

If you wanna talk to a DK main defending his precious baby read everything I wrote in this thread and have at it:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Right, don’t know why it’s so overly complex of an equation for a few people.

100% agree with the suggested ideas, it should be an either or, armor or penetration, if they insist on keeping Battle Roar around.

Xarc

corrosive armor isnt the only problem of DK

Cast_El

PvP perspective.

MagDk has been nerfed. Not sure about witch patch u34 maybe.
MagDk is still op, but warden and nightblade are way more overturned right now. And some skill should be nerf, but not a entire class.

I play magplar and magsorc. And I think enough with the nerf.

Zos should buff other classes instead of nerfing class in good spot. Because when they nerf, they do it with a Hammer! (I know what I am talking about: magplar main remember)

Xarc

maybe it has been nerfed by the past, like every class, but it has been buffed too.

and sorry but it's still not balanced.

and it's not a thread for other classes but magNB is still weak in pvp, like mag necro and stam dk. You might rarely meet a great player of this class but it's like 1% playerbase and we can't say a class is balanced when only 1% are able to play it with decent gameplay.

The_Titan_Tim

Xarc wrote: »

maybe it has been nerfed by the past, like every class, but it has been buffed too.

and sorry but it's still not balanced.

and it's not a thread for other classes but magNB is still weak in pvp, like mag necro and stam dk. You might rarely meet a great player of this class but it's like 1% playerbase and we can't say a class is balanced when only 1% are able to play it with decent gameplay.

Gotta disagree with the statement that MagBlades are weak in PvP at the moment, they are doing phenomenal. Mostly because of the 10% increase to all of their damage, but the changes to Blur give them free roll-dodges now too. After a reduction from the 10% to maybe 5%, the class will be in a pretty good place. Same can be said for the 12% Ice Staff buff to MagDen, after that value is removed from only Ice Staves and lowered, the class will be in a perfect place aswell.

Dragonknights have received no major buffs, but have consistently been on top due to the constant nerfs to it’s counterplay…

Templar kept them in check, now every single way a Templar did that has been gutted.

Puncturing Strikes divided the damage of a spammable into multiple intervals so Corrosive didn’t matter.

Extended Ritual purged their damage-over-time cancer that lasts forever now, a purge completely destroyed by Elemental Susceptibility, a ZERO cost ability, forcing you to lose 3 of your 5 effects removed.

Power of the Light‘s nerf got most of the remaining Templars off of the class and now, as we’re clearly seeing, the checks aren’t balanced.

Now at the mid to high skill level, you either run Mara’s Balm or die consistently to Dragonknights on any class considered “mid-tier” or lower. Even then, you won’t have the damage needed to break through the mitigation the class gives, best bet being a stalemate or the not-so-rare performance lag that prevents a player from hitting their abilities, to get your kill.

GetAgrippa

No. It's time to buff Templars, Necros and maybe Sorcs. Quit with the crying for nerfs already.

LittlePinkDot

Soooo. These invincible mag dks.. Are They wearing heavy armour or something??? Because my light armour mag DK dies when somebody sneezes on her.

MidniteOwl1913

So you know when a class gets nerfed it's not just PVP right? The hammer comes down on the whole class. When ZOS says balance they included the balance between PVE and PVP. RIght now no one is happy with it, so I guess it's balanced. (a bit of sarcasm, some people are okay with it)

DK have been nerfed and nerfed again not to mention the horrible hybrid whip (shudder). No more nerfs.

The_Titan_Tim

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

So you know when a class gets nerfed it's not just PVP right? The hammer comes down on the whole class. When ZOS says balance they included the balance between PVE and PVP. RIght now no one is happy with it, so I guess it's balanced. (a bit of sarcasm, some people are okay with it)

DK have been nerfed and nerfed again not to mention the horrible hybrid whip (shudder). No more nerfs.

If you’re talking PvE, look at the rosters for all of the highest scoring trial runs on any leaderboard besides Asylum Sanctorum, more than half of the Damage Dealers* are Dragonknights because they are performing the best as Damage Dealers too.

If you’re going to make that argument, provide some screenshots to back it.

*"Team" to Damage Dealers, as Healers almost never pick Dragonknight, and ideally you would want only one tank to be a DK

MidniteOwl1913

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

So you know when a class gets nerfed it's not just PVP right? The hammer comes down on the whole class. When ZOS says balance they included the balance between PVE and PVP. RIght now no one is happy with it, so I guess it's balanced. (a bit of sarcasm, some people are okay with it)

DK have been nerfed and nerfed again not to mention the horrible hybrid whip (shudder). No more nerfs.

If you’re talking PvE, look at the rosters for all of the highest scoring trial runs on any leaderboard besides Asylum Sanctorum, more than half of the team are Dragonknights because they are performing the best as Damage Dealers too.

If you’re going to make that argument, provide some screenshots to back it.

I'm not concerned with what the 1% do. I'm pretty sure that those people could outperform me naked playing a guar. I am not nor will I ever be in the 1%. I'm talking about the average player.

Elendir2am

This thread should be renamed to stamDK is strong, nerf magDK.

If you want to advise others to look at DK passives more closely, they you should assess them in combat context to see their impact first. Condition they need to work with toolkit of build you are assessing. Do something which can be powerful with cheap weapons skills can be much less impactful with class skills, which are expensive.

Discussion around Corrosive Armor is good example, how taking numbers out of context can lead to wrong conclusion.
Defensive part of this skill depend on context a lot. For example 3% of health in other morph is super powerful in trials again bosses and champions. Vampire knight from Kyne Aegis do 100K with every LA, how powerful is than magma shield again him.
From other side, if you get hit by 34 zergs by LA in PvP, you are death and Corrosive Armor was useless skill for that situation.

If you want defensive ultimate for PvP, go with shield ultimate. It is cheaper and more effective and it can open attack window for you as well. Corrosive Armor can be powerful in offense thank offensive part of skill, but you need to fit your fight in that condition and your opponent can easily close your offensive window by keeping distance foe few second.

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO

Oh save it! Enough with the damn nerfs.

Xarc

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh save it! Enough with the damn nerfs.

what an argument !

so we wont nerf nothing in the future just because nerfing is bad ? oh dear... please.

The_Titan_Tim

Xarc wrote: »

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh save it! Enough with the damn nerfs.

what an argument !

so we wont nerf nothing in the future just because nerfing is bad ? oh dear... please.

I guess if we all run around one-shotting players with our strongest class abilities, everyone is balanced? lol

MidniteOwl1913

Xarc wrote: »

Jordan.nick11b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh save it! Enough with the damn nerfs.

what an argument !

so we wont nerf nothing in the future just because nerfing is bad ? oh dear... please.

How about I'm sick and tired of worrying about something I use and enjoy being taken away because other people don'tlike it and complain...

TechMaybeHic

DK and Warden are the only 2 classes I have not played in the current patch. Oh; and sorc. I've played quite a bit of each previous patches

GetAgrippa wrote: »

No. It's time to buff Templars, Necros and maybe Sorcs. Quit with the crying for nerfs already.

This is where I am. I like where DK, NB, and Warden are. Necro is...limited but ok-ish for a role but certainly not diverse. Templar and sorcs are reduced to some kite range crappy niche.

I just want all classes to be fun to play again and I'm tired of the class nerfs leaving us a meta that really is boiled down to set choice.

Xarc

Actually DK>necro & DK>templar

you can buff necro & templar but when the problem is DK sustain it still needs a nerf.

xXCJsniperXx7

Hmm, typical, thinking a class is overpowered and asking for nerfs. Heard this too many times. Ever considered the effects on pve? Molten whip is the spammable after all. So, kinda need it for successful dps. Take Flight is dodgeable and can be blocked by the way. It can be interrupted by scatter shot for example to. I main DK and I can tell you I'm just as killable as those I Take Flight on. It's all about knowing your opponent, not nerfing them.

Bonus fact, molten whip + fossilize + Take Flight is good for single targets however is still less single target burst than night blade builds. I have been in those shoes on my dk, it really hurts.

The_Titan_Tim

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

Hmm, typical, thinking a class is overpowered and asking for nerfs. Heard this too many times. Ever considered the effects on pve? Molten whip is the spammable after all. So, kinda need it for successful dps. Take Flight is dodgeable and can be blocked by the way. It can be interrupted by scatter shot for example to. I main DK and I can tell you I'm just as killable as those I Take Flight on. It's all about knowing your opponent, not nerfing them.

Bonus fact, molten whip + fossilize + Take Flight is good for single targets however is still less single target burst than night blade builds. I have been in those shoes on my dk, it really hurts.

Nerf to DK is taking PvE into consideration, it’s the best option right now for Damage Dealing, completely outclassing other options for standard, non-ranged DPS.

If you didn’t need a Nightblade and Sorcerer for their crit buffs, there would only be Dragonknights and Necromancers (class is trash in PvP right now, but great in PvE because of the 10% DoT passive and for bringing Elemental Catalyst to the group)

MurkyWetWolf198

I don't think Dk needs a nerf, I think most other classes (maybe Warden and Nightblade excluded) need a buff. Like, maybe just a guild skill that serves as a decent CC option for the necroes, maybe a buff to jabs, maybe a morph to jesus beam that's stam focused, maybe a buff to sorcs so that they're shield applies a heal-over-time to themselves while it's active.
Like, DK is fine, it's just that a lot of other builds aren't

Xarc

xXCJsniperXx7 wrote: »

Hmm, typical, thinking a class is overpowered and asking for nerfs.
[...]
Bonus fact, molten whip + fossilize + Take Flight is good for single targets however is still less single target burst than night blade builds. I have been in those shoes on my dk, it really hurts.

another Dk saying dk doesnt need nerf.

NB is good at 1vs1 because the class has been made for this but :
nb doesnt have the sustain of DK
nb doesnt have the armor bonus & resitances of DK
nb doesnt have self heals of DK
nb doesnt have poison/flame damage bonus of DK

nb just the opposite of DK, it has good crit bonuses and has executionner because it's the assassin class without dot and with direct damages because of the assassin style.

you can't compare both.

Marcus684

Xarc wrote: »

…

another Dk saying dk doesnt need nerf.

…

Welcome to the Forums, where every class is trash according to those who main it, and every class needs a nerf according to everyone.