Action bar slots

nzblustone

nhisso wrote: »

I hate that poor excuse. I am LOVING this game, but I hate the restrictions in skills in MMOs these days. And to say it's based on strategy is total non sense. Some of us like variety and don't like being limited. If you want that fake brand of strategy, you can do it yourself. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. HOWEVER, in this game, it's not so bad. Anyone who's played the single player games knows how limited your skills were, so for Elder Scrolls, these extra "moves" are just fine by me.

Anyone that does want more skills than what ESO allows can just go play one of the games that let you have near-infinite action bars, there are enough of them.

We don't need or want every game to be a carbon copy of those before it and having more skills than you would ever need all available at the same time is not a must-have in any game. It is merely a direction many MMO companies have gone.

ketzerei84

Quickslots.

Lisztomaniac

Calyn wrote: »

I have to say that this is very disappointing. There are so many skills that have to be activated. There's nothing strategic about picking 5 skills when the specific class trees have double that for one weapon type. I don't want a clone of another MMO with 500 slots but 10 available at one time would be more than enough. This game is awesome but this feels way too restrictive for a PC MMO. However thank you all for the quick responses.

but you do have 10 skills at one time, 12 if you count ultimates, have you even hit level 15?
if you so desperately want a diferent playstyles with more slots available, then go back to wow or all the other mmo's, the combat in eso is designed to be this way, dont like it? dont play it, i normally dont say that, because i understand that people have diferent opinions, but youre asking for a complete change of combat, this would be akin of going to wow and asking that there only be 5 skills or 10 skills, when the combat in wow is not designed that way, or goind to diablo and asking for having multiple hotbars, diferent games have diferent play styles, and to the people complayning about the quickslots, are you *** kiding me? its simple as *** to use, you guys complain about everything. of all the things wrong with the game you chose the things that arent.

Arrahant

I also agree 2x6=12 actions feels a bit limited. As a WoW veteran I definitely feel you don't need to have 40 icons in your action bars to achieve a combat system that feels rich in strategy. Even in heroic raiding a lot of classes in WoW use the same 6-10 actions 90% of the time.
However, when the pc version uses ridiculous radial menus for consumables, as well as having regular menu's not featuring a pragmatic Windows-like design with a little cross in the top right etcetera, one could get the fleeting feeling the choice for 6 actions on screen was more informed to cut the costs of maintaining and balancing this game (as well as being suited to the usage of a controller), and not so much as to make the combat more deep.

Who could argue that WoW does not have a very transparent and functional menu design? I would even argue it has the best UI there is. I am not saying this game should copy that 1 to 1, but I would definitely love a bit less immersiveness and more pragmatism in eso's menu design!

Don't get me wrong: I am very glad console players will be able to play this mmo. This will benefit every eso fan out there. But I just want to replace WoW with something new, and I wonder if this game will be able to do that on a longer term with this seemingly limited combat system. The jury's still out, but from the perspective of a pc-gamer I think this game would benefit greatly from very seperate pc- and console versions.

RaZSm

"Not a console port" my a**!!

dumbo

Arrahant wrote: »

Who could argue that WoW does not have a very transparent and functional menu design? I would even argue it has the best UI there is. I am not saying this game should copy that 1 to 1, but I would definitely love a bit less immersiveness and more pragmatism in eso's menu design!

At some point a UI goes from "helping you play the game" to "being the game you play". You stop swinging your sword at an orc, and start trying to make "the red bar on the left fall faster than the red bar on the right".

In terms of buttons:
- star trek online's ship combat has (roughly) 3 billion buttons that people macro.
- world of tank's combat has (basically) 1 button.

Personally, the more interesting game is world of tanks. The number of buttons is not the same as the number of options o_O.

yizumannub19_ESO

As a sorc, I cannot use the weapon switch ability because to do so would cause my pets to disappear, this would place me in grave jeopardy while in the middle of combat. So I would think ESO should expand the slots from 1 to 5 to 1 to 0 on the keyboard. I for one cannot understand nor fathom this restriction.

Fransiscus

I thougt somebody told us before when u slot the pet in both bars the pet stays correct me if im wrong please

Kreager

Fransiscus wrote: »

I thougt somebody told us before when u slot the pet in both bars the pet stays correct me if im wrong please

You are correct

Cepeza

The fact that you can allocate any ability you unlocked with a skill point at any time to a specific slot (except when in combat) gives you all the flexibility you can have with 40 quick slots. The limitation is clearly in place to have a restrictive pool of abilities one can use in combat to prevent fit-all-situations static ability rotations available at any time, but to make you build your 12 slots reasonable for a specific situation and the abilities your specific opponent has and in addition use all fight mechanics implemented. Mechanics like combat movement, dodging, blocking, interupting shall become as much significant as abilities themselves. That's how that game is designed and that is full intent of ESO developers.

That said I can imagine an addon that can slot ability sets out of combat on one keypress.

Ceila

Well this limiting feature to me with only 5 skills and Ultimate allowed and the fact the stupid wheel thing instead of hotkeys for each means I will play to 50 and probably quit. Yes I know at level 15 you get a second set of skill keys to use when you switch weapons.

Not to mention no global auction system so you can only sell items inside one guild at a time is ridiculas. Let the item we are selling list to all 5 guilds at same time.

No name tags above even NPC heads really turns me off from this game, sometimes I have a hard time finding the NPC I am looking for. Yesterday I was in Grahtwood at a Inn and hovering over the inn it said it had vendors and so on. Well I looked around for 5 minutes and never found the vendor I wanted even though it was supposed to be there so I said heck with it. Not allowing us the option to turn on Name Plates above heads is a bad idea.

Khazaad

imjanko wrote: »

It really is. I have a 17 button mouse and a full keyboard (as does everyone). Having to assign 8 items to one key is a terrible design flaw for a pc version.

Not a flaw but a product of cross platform integration with VERY different traditional input methods between them.

dboike11b14_ESO

I would also like to see at least 6-7 hotbars per weapon group. It is not like I forgot the skills I spent valuable skill points on, so I should be able to use them. There are three main types of potions so we should get three hotkeys for potions. You can plan ahead all you want, but if you have never fought the mob before its a crapshoot.

I do understand that you level up based on the skills you have slotted and the devs dont want players to level up too fast, but there has to be a better balance than 5 slots per weapon group. I am not saying 20+ slots, but a few more would make more sense.

xryanvb16_ESO

yes i also believe that 6-7 ability slots per weapon would be better as it would allow for a bit more build deversity imo . Right now you have slot 1 = main dmg slot 2 = finisher slot3 = cc slot =4 mitigation and the last slot ends up being some buff or utility... and ulti..... if we had one or two more slots you could add some interesting dps rotations or dots or debuffs or something that would make combat a bit more interesting imo.

even with 7 buttons you could still use a Game Pad 8P

Jade1986

Grimntonnic wrote: »

I believe that this was made this way as the game is going to be console and pc. It seems after playing some that it could give the advantage to console players.

Actually this design choice was made before the announcement for console was even made, and before they even thought about it. Console will have a completely different UI than the PC UI.

Jade1986

shapelyzombie wrote: »

Keep in mind that this game will also be available on consoles. It is not PC exclusive. Zenimax has been very clear that they want a level playing field for everyone, and I absolutely commend them on that stance. Having ten skills on your bar in the PC version would be very unfair to console gamers.

Console gamers have their own Servers and a completely different UI.

Strontium-Dog

Its not hard . Use your brains .Add stuff to quickslot, easy to select new item anytime once there. The power slots are fine especially once you get second toolbar/weapon swap at 15.
Really spoonfed ten thousand toolbar mmos havent help some of you lol

Grayphilosophy

What they need to do is to not make combat hotbar-oriented, it wasn't meant to be, hence the limited number of readily available of skills.

Regular attacks and blocking should be everyone's main source of damage and defense in combat. Unfortunately this system is still a bit rough around the edges, not adequately responsive or overly effective.

Skills are situational tools, unfortunately they've already been turned into wombo-combo nukes. To be absolutely honest I reckon they should remove a lot of the damage from the various skills in the game and increase their utility aspect instead, forcing players to rely on actually attacking things.

This isn't a buttonsmash MMO, please stop trying to turn it into one.

Edit:
Upon review of some of the other comments.
Some people expressed their frustrations with feeling like they're missing hotbar slots to fulfill their skill combinations. This is exactly the intention, you need to sacrifice some things to gain the benefit of others. This is the way the game is strategically balanced. If all of us had unrestricted perfectly synergizing skills available at all times the game wouldn't pose a challenge. The game is supposed to be challenging. Please.

Ulvich

I can agree to this thread. We really do need more slots.

Custos91

Game has to be completely rebalanced with more skills, won't happen because of this...

Aemesh23

As far as the action bar is concerned, I think it's vital to creating a very specific role for each player, particularly in pvp. When you're a level veteran 5 dk with primarily cc's slotted and maybe a heal or a dps in one slot, it gives a lower level player a way to plan and create a way to get at you. It's a whole other layer of strategy. Sure, there are times where I scratch my head at what I want to sacrifice for that new ability I have, but in pvp this 6 (12) slot limitation is just about right for creating an environment where 2 players of the same class can have radically different playstyles, and likewise can plan accordingly for the other's demise.

As far as the quickslots go, It's somewhat realistic, dont you think? Picture a large, psychotic, fleshless abomination (or an enemy dragonknght) is bearing down on you: You're injured, tired and/or panicked. How fast could you fumble around in your pouches for that perfect potion for the situation? Strange enough that you can pull a friggin trebuchet out of your b...ack pocket. Well, whole other discussion, but I think the quickslots work just fine, it just requires a little pre-planning, or kiting and practice.

Did I mention "plan accordingly?" A little foresight goes a long way, and while this isn't rift or wow with the 200 quickslots - not by a longshot - this was meant to be a departure from that sort of game. There is no "Best combo" when there are so many decent skills, but no one player can use them all at the same time.
Au contraire when every player can slot one third of their abilities at one time, then switch weapons to slot another third (checking my math.. hrm about right, if you had 10 slots + an ulti) then pretty much everyone will end up with the same cookie-cutter builds.

Awe

All he games that i played so far (and some of them from the start) expanded those bars with time. Sad to see that ESO devs don't learn on that experience.
Personally, depending, where i go, have to change 2-3 skills on a bar (rarely on both) and after 2 weeks cant get used to this "Q"-wheel for consumables, simply no time in a fight to find needed pot, if set before engaging was wrong one.

Cydone

imjanko wrote: »

I like the strategy of 5 slots as far as planning and whatnot.
Quickslots for consumables shouldn't be a controller based scheme on a PC game though

The bolded!

Cydone

Instead of adding more slots to each toolbar, why not add on more toolbars?? Each weapon has 1 toolbar, make it 2 for each. This way, we would still have the 5 abilities per toolbar + 1 ultimate, but we can further customize our loadouts by allowing an additional toolbar for each weapon.

MerlinCorey

All i would want is to have an option to preset few combat options, and then chose which ones i use at some given time, because what is annoying to me is that i need to reset the skills depending to what i am doing, if i am soloing i have 12 skills, and then i get a group and become main healer i want use different 12 and for pvp i have slightly different setup and this constant resting is annoying, i should have predefined sets, that i could activate out of the combat, and use them when i need them, without the fuss to reset bloody skill every time i need to do something, and this still wouldn't go against the policy to have 12 active skills you can swap in combat, but frankly it would get my life a lot easier

kloerkeb14_ESO

imjanko wrote: »

IS there am add on to give you a second bar for your quickslot items, (potions, etc etc). The "wheel" method, while good for the console version is stupid and terrible for mouse and keyboards.

I use an Add-on called "Easy Quick Slots" that allows me to assign hot keys for the wheel (I used F1 through F8) and this has made it much simpler to use my consumables. You can get it at Curse.com or ESOUI.com.

Cydone

MerlinCorey wrote: »

All i would want is to have an option to preset few combat options, and then chose which ones i use at some given time, because what is annoying to me is that i need to reset the skills depending to what i am doing, if i am soloing i have 12 skills, and then i get a group and become main healer i want use different 12 and for pvp i have slightly different setup and this constant resting is annoying, i should have predefined sets, that i could activate out of the combat, and use them when i need them, without the fuss to reset bloody skill every time i need to do something, and this still wouldn't go against the policy to have 12 active skills you can swap in combat, but frankly it would get my life a lot easier

I agree. Though I hate to use the reference, but make it like COD(Call of Duty). For those that have never played it, you have 5 or more "loadout" options that are completely customizable and can be selected at any given time during a match. Although to actually get to a different loadout once a match has started, you have to wait till you die. I would MUCH prefer something like that, without the having to die part, that I can switch between while NOT in combat.

Paithan

this was done because the game will also be for console users. one, the dev's are either too lazy to develop 2 ui's for the different platforms. or two, they're worried about console users crying that the pc users have an "unfair advantage" over them because they have a fully functioning ui. which they would have an advantage. wake up, pc's are real computers with full use of their function, consoles are neutered calculators meant for playing cod over and over.

personally i think its the first one. they simply had no desire to use more dev time creating 2 separate ui's. it still boggles the mind that each new game goes back to square one with the ui, and we're stuck waiting years for them to catch up to the other games. it's like the dev's have done no research at all as to what features other games have incorporated into theirs. rift is the only game i can think of off hand that had a fully functioning ui at release.

which annoys me greatly. the ui is the entire way to interface with the game (duh, ui=user interface) and if you find it annoying to play or look at the game, it shortens how long you're willing to play that game. it all works itself out in the end. people who like the limited ui will keep playing. people who don't, won't.

Cydone

Paithan wrote: »

this was done because the game will also be for console users. one, the dev's are either too lazy to develop 2 ui's for the different platforms. or two, they're worried about console users crying that the pc users have an "unfair advantage" over them because they have a fully functioning ui. which they would have an advantage. wake up, pc's are real computers with full use of their function, consoles are neutered calculators meant for playing cod over and over.

personally i think its the first one. they simply had no desire to use more dev time creating 2 separate ui's. it still boggles the mind that each new game goes back to square one with the ui, and we're stuck waiting years for them to catch up to the other games. it's like the dev's have done no research at all as to what features other games have incorporated into theirs. rift is the only game i can think of off hand that had a fully functioning ui at release.

which annoys me greatly. the ui is the entire way to interface with the game (duh, ui=user interface) and if you find it annoying to play or look at the game, it shortens how long you're willing to play that game. it all works itself out in the end. people who like the limited ui will keep playing. people who don't, won't.

Actually PC users wouldn't have any advantage over console users. Console players will be playing on a separate server entirely. Allowing a more "robust" UI for the PC would in no way affect how the console version functions.

Klanae16_ESO

1. Action key hots

In my view, a RPG is all about strategy. There is no strategy with 5 abilities only anyway - at least, no place for "in combat" strategy.

Regarding the arm swap and the 5 more skills: This is no satisfying solution. If I intend to play a ranger all the way, why should I have to swap bows to be able to benefit from a complete range of skills?

This poor gameplay appears unbelievable when you come to consider the amazing variety of skills proposed and when you realise that you need to use each of them in order to get them upgraded.

2. Consumable key hots
As to the consumable wheel: I agree it's not efficient nor userfriendly for PC gamers.