Ability to inspect players in ESO

Amottica

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

I found this feature and achievement checking very helpful raiding and especially PUGing RND raids in SWTOR outside of HM/NiM my prog groups. If someone is struggling in fulfilling their role, often you can see why they struggle by inspecting their gear - frequently I saw DDs with a mis match of tank, healer, and DPS gear and you can whisper them and explain gearing to them and they can fix their gear and improve their performance after the raid.

If someone isn’t performing mechs you can see if they’ve done the content before by checking achievements and you can put a quick explanation to the whole group before each boss because many times in SWTOR and ESO people refuse to admit they’ve not run content before when you ask the group.

These tools are very helpful and just because some people may use it to be jerks doesn’t mean they don’t have a place. People use chat to be toxic in ESO daily but I would not advocate for chat to be removed because some people misuse it.

It’s simple to request they link the related achiement.

Also, SWTOR was not all that toxic.

sorcmag01

Rageypoo wrote: »

Just curious why there isn't an ability to inspect gear and skills like you can in games like WoW, would being able to inspect a player be something that ESO players would be interested in?

Not interested thank you. I didn't like that feature in WoW anyways.

SerafinaWaterstar

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

Well done for proving the point that this is not a good idea.

If you are doing vet trials with a group, do you not just TALK to them?! Discuss gear beforehand, maybe? Not spy on them.

And not going to comment on your secondary use to gatekeep vet gear as would get banned. Just gobsmacked at the arrogance.

Kingsindarkness

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Well done for proving the point that this is not a good idea.

If you are doing vet trials with a group, do you not just TALK to them?! Discuss gear beforehand, maybe? Not spy on them.

.

This is why things changed so much in this game and sadly why they need to change more. I'm sure that malignant behavior like that will pretty much go away if we had a Story Mode for Dungeons and Trials.

I know that it is something that is being considered and has been for awhile now.

Anhedonie

Remember when people instantly kicked all DD wardens from party? Imagine the same, but for wearing "wrong" gear.

Wolf_Eye

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

What??!!

They are trying to get better with armor sets and you deny them. That is the exact opposite way you should behave.

"...you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared..." How should they get geared then?

This right here is the best argument on why gear inspection should not exist.

So basically "You can't get vet gear unless you already have vet gear....which means no one can get vet gear. Logic"

Iselin

It'll never happen because it'll just be used to ridicule others and gatekeep.

BlueRaven

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

What??!!

They are trying to get better with armor sets and you deny them. That is the exact opposite way you should behave.

"...you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared..." How should they get geared then?

This right here is the best argument on why gear inspection should not exist.

So basically "You can't get vet gear unless you already have vet gear....which means no one can get vet gear. Logic"

Exactly.

With only a slight language change this is how it worked (works?) in WoW. A community I gladly left behind in 2014.

edward_frigidhands

ESO doesn't need this.

Most players don't want this.

If you are curious about someone's gear and setup then ask them. If they aren't interested in telling you then there is that.

I have played WoW since launch and I can tell you this feature led to nothing but toxic behavior from toxic people.

edward_frigidhands

BlueRaven wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

What??!!

They are trying to get better with armor sets and you deny them. That is the exact opposite way you should behave.

"...you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared..." How should they get geared then?

This right here is the best argument on why gear inspection should not exist.

So basically "You can't get vet gear unless you already have vet gear....which means no one can get vet gear. Logic"

Exactly.

With only a slight language change this is how it worked (works?) in WoW. A community I gladly left behind in 2014.

I left WoW almost 5 years ago. I met a lot of really solid friends on there but the community was a total cesspool of racist behavior.

Features like this were catalysts for most of it.

zaria

AzuraFan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Why should anybody care that skills you had on bars overland?
For one you might be leveling the skills, lots of people use dolmens or quests to level skills. I say its nice to level up an resto staff on any magic build just in case you need it.

It wasn't my skills, it was what I had in my quick slots. And who knows why some people care about what others are doing in a game? You'd have to ask those people. I can understand having an interest if you're grouping with someone to do something difficult. But random people in overland? Who knows?

I and probably most calls that you have in your 12 slots your skills or perhaps active skills.
Experienced players can usually see who skills you use as least the attack skills.
Why anybody would care overland I don't know with a few exceptions like using chains on an DK pulling enemies away from them😺 then they try to kill 10 of an rare enemy type for endeavors

Vulkunne

Chadak wrote: »

Gotta say that I'm glad there is no such ability in ESO.

Why? Because prior experience has made me 100% certain that the only appropriate way to deal with this is to make people ask and to allow people to refuse to engage with this topic if they don't want to do so. If you want to know what gear someone's running, ask. It should be up to them to tell you or not tell you as they see fit.

'Examine' options that let you snoop on other peoples' gear loadouts encourage one thing and one thing alone - nosiness. It's pure indulgence of nosiness that inclines some people to start to think that they're going to start Helping People™ by commenting on/criticizing their gear.

At its absolute best, this function can be marginally convenient when someone's asking you for help in figuring out their gear situation and you can look for yourself to see what they're starting with. This can also be accomplished by asking them to link their gear in a chat window, and IMO, that's how it *should* be addressed.

There is not one single good argument for why this needs to exist that cannot be resolved by simply asking if you're so concerned about someone's gear situation. If your concern is legit and the person in question wants your input, feedback or opinion, you can ask them about it and they can engage you on the subject.

Otherwise, live in your own yard and stop acting like you're entitled to live in mine as well.

While I don't disagree with the underlying sentiment of the post, I feel the need to bring up the subject of collaboration.

Now you say that folks need to stick to their own yard and you're entitled to do the same. Great. But I must ask you, what happens when you want to join a group?

Allow me to briefly explain. Trust is the key to any relationship and its the one thing that many random groups just don't seem to have anymore. However, even still, in order for a Team (or otherwise what we call a group) to work together then everyone has to give something. And, for some runs its perfectly reasonable for me to ask what gear everyone is running or possibly other questions as well, what build are you running with this or that role etc. So building trust requires letting someone else in.

Like you, I'm most def against someone creepin' on my account. But at the same time, if there is a need for collaboration then everyone is going to have to learn to work together in order to move forward. Everyone cannot always go in their own direction, and this is a reason why many groups fail, its why many pvp campaigns fail, including one going on right now in Grayhost lol.

Its natural and in my opinion perfectly fine for people to be comfortable however being comfortable and staying in your lane only takes you so far when you realize the need to work with someone else. And I mention this because it seems like many times, I'm basically the one carrying folks and am just getting kind of tired of eating all the risk, taking the heat, including a few abusive chat messages, while everyone else saves face and stays safe and comfortable... with a few of them also trying to take all the credit too.

I guess I just wish eso was more like it was back a couple years ago where it seemed like people were more forthcoming about working together as a Team.

Lauranae

as i do not want to change the whole point of this thread, i answered to you in message.

Anyway the discussion is closed for me. I deleted about 12 houses in the last two days and the ones i kept are closed. Lots of mats and furnitures to create new ones houses

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

I gave to some friends the decorator ranking so for those i do not mind. But now anyone with inferior rank visiting the house will be able to retreive the full list of the items you placed in your house, and thus copy the house easily.
When i create a piece of art in my house, its not to find it in another house. WHen i create those, there is more in it that just put pieces together. I use the art i have in me in RL to create in game and this is who i am, not just some pieces put together just to be there.
So i do no agree that those are copied. I always said i can create for people if they want, i even often gave the mats to do them, but i did them to fit with the personality of the person, not mine.

There's a lot more to decorating than the list of furnishings. Where & how they're placed is more important. And how is someone going to copy all of that?

So "copy the house easily" seems a bit of a stretch. Seems like it would take hours of screenshotting lists of items, and then screenshotting all the placements, and then somehow duplicating that.... seems like a huge amount of work. Pointless work, because who even cares that much?

Also, I don't think there's anyone out there who would want to copy your house. Maybe they wonder what furnishing that cool thing over there is, or maybe they might see a cool way you've intersected three items to make a new thing, sure (which they could already see & try to copy)... but wholesale copy your "artwork" of a house? I really don't see it ever happening.



(honestly, I've got to say that I don't understand the general viewpoint in the first place. Sorry. )

Xarc

No thanks.

lol, the amount of "no" is crazy here.
and btw about visible @id , I think this is a protective mesure which is necessary today, even if i wasnt a big fan of it when it changed on eso.
elder scrolls game has this particularity to have minimal informations on screen, and personnally i like it.

mikemacon

No.

Blackbird_V

This may be a good idea for those lower level players to inspect higher level players to see what gear and abilities they're using to increase their own damage, healing or tankyness in the game and whatnot. However, there is always going to be people that will abuse that feature to bully and kick others from groups.

I would propose that if this option was added, it would be an option where you can ALLOW or DISALLOW others to see your gear and skills, and that the default option would be disabled so it's a choice then if people want it on so they can be inspected.

fizl101

Blackbird_V wrote: »

This may be a good idea for those lower level players to inspect higher level players to see what gear and abilities they're using to increase their own damage, healing or tankyness in the game and whatnot. However, there is always going to be people that will abuse that feature to bully and kick others from groups.

I would propose that if this option was added, it would be an option where you can ALLOW or DISALLOW others to see your gear and skills, and that the default option would be disabled so it's a choice then if people want it on so they can be inspected.

Even that could be abused though unfortunately. Enable the ability to see your gear etc or you get kicked/can't join this dungeon/raid etc

Blackbird_V

fizl101 wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

This may be a good idea for those lower level players to inspect higher level players to see what gear and abilities they're using to increase their own damage, healing or tankyness in the game and whatnot. However, there is always going to be people that will abuse that feature to bully and kick others from groups.

I would propose that if this option was added, it would be an option where you can ALLOW or DISALLOW others to see your gear and skills, and that the default option would be disabled so it's a choice then if people want it on so they can be inspected.

Even that could be abused though unfortunately. Enable the ability to see your gear etc or you get kicked/can't join this dungeon/raid etc

Then they're [snip] you don't wanna be with.

[edited for profanity bypass]

VictorDragonslayer

1) Pointless for hardcore players - RLs know what people are wearing and live logs exist.
2) Detrimental for average players - they will pretend that they know the game and gatekeep each other, then babble about "evil endgamers".
3) Pointless when dealing with touchy players - they will simply throw a tantrum no matter what you say.
That's why it won't happen.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

This may be a good idea for those lower level players to inspect higher level players to see what gear and abilities they're using to increase their own damage, healing or tankyness in the game and whatnot. However, there is always going to be people that will abuse that feature to bully and kick others from groups.

Esologs exists and contains tons of information. One can also join a raiding community and consult with experienced players, because not every setup from logs will suit current group.

Cazador

Hard pass. Given the one time I got mocked by someone I killed in cyrodill before I got around to replacing vipers I can only imagine it'd be even more widespread.

Tsar_Gekkou

I wish we could inspect outfits so people wouldn't need to ask me what my outfit is, since I don't exactly feel like double checking each piece and then typing it all out. People think that being able to inspect actual gear would cause toxicity, but it wouldn't really be any different because people can already tell you that they'll kick you if you won't link what gear you're wearing.

Redguards_Revenge

Rageypoo wrote: »

Just curious why there isn't an ability to inspect gear and skills like you can in games like WoW, would being able to inspect a player be something that ESO players would be interested in?

This would kill the game. Trust me.

Ragnarok0130

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

What??!!

They are trying to get better with armor sets and you deny them. That is the exact opposite way you should behave.

"...you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared..." How should they get geared then?

This right here is the best argument on why gear inspection should not exist.

So basically "You can't get vet gear unless you already have vet gear....which means no one can get vet gear. Logic"

Except that's not at all how it actually works since there's actually a raid gear progression. If you've got the armor and monster sets considered as beginner raid gear for your role that come from dungeons that are improved to at least purple then most vet groups will accept you into runs as long as it's not the super hard core vet trials like vRG and vDSR (which ZoS is firmly to blame for) that most groups have to prog. If you meet the DPS threshold you might be invited to those harder trials so there is ebb and flow. The raid lead also needs to consider the mix of new raiders to vet raiders to ensure a clear. Pre-U35 it was easier to get new people raiding because you had more room to cover for lower DPS players who are learning both the mechs and simultaneously gearing their toon and possibly refining their builds. U35 is more to blame for groups having more stringent requirements than the "toxicity" or "elitism" that the forums love to blame for absolutely everything.

Ragnarok0130

fizl101 wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

This may be a good idea for those lower level players to inspect higher level players to see what gear and abilities they're using to increase their own damage, healing or tankyness in the game and whatnot. However, there is always going to be people that will abuse that feature to bully and kick others from groups.

I would propose that if this option was added, it would be an option where you can ALLOW or DISALLOW others to see your gear and skills, and that the default option would be disabled so it's a choice then if people want it on so they can be inspected.

Even that could be abused though unfortunately. Enable the ability to see your gear etc or you get kicked/can't join this dungeon/raid etc

Everything in ESO like chat, crouching, or emotes can be abused or used to offend someone so why draw the line at a useful tool? Some things people think is abuse such as telling people to get into voice chat for a raid isn't abuse and is just touchy players wanting to be catered to. Anything that is really abuse is already against the ToS and can be solved with a report to CS. Everything that isn't in violation of ToS can be embraced or denied with one's comfort level and goals - but if you want to raid then you have to play the game and adhere to the group's standards or you don't get to raid. Nobody will get kicked from RNDs if we have a gear inspection. The only time I see people get kicked nowadays is when they AFK, leave the dungeon without leaving group, or fake tank with a bow, no taunt, and 18K health running around in circles from the boss. I see people leaving dungeons due to low DPS or fake tanks more than asking to kick anyone and I run several RNDs a day for transmutes.

Varana

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

What??!!

They are trying to get better with armor sets and you deny them. That is the exact opposite way you should behave.

"...you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared..." How should they get geared then?

This right here is the best argument on why gear inspection should not exist.

So basically "You can't get vet gear unless you already have vet gear....which means no one can get vet gear. Logic"

Except that's not at all how it actually works since there's actually a raid gear progression. ...

Except that
a) the idea of "gear progression" is rather muddled in ESO. There is no clear tier list of gear to progress through. A trial + a dungeon set are usually preferable to two trial sets. A crafted set like Order's Wrath is useful until very far into the end game. A base-game overland set like Mother's Sorrow was widely used in top-end builds for years. And even among trial sets, the order changes considerably from patch to patch.
Plus personal skill trumps gear for a long time.

and
b) That's not what the quoted person was talking about. They were referring to the guy logging random vets to see if their random group members were "worthy" of getting their spare gear drops by already having the (in their eyes) "correct" gear.

And generally, again, what you want is already there with esologs - a tool for raid leaders to coordinate gear, and to check for issues during progression. There is zero need to do that for random players in pickup groups or even when running around overland. That's just being nosy.

Bouldercleave

Only reason I would inspect another player would be if they had an armor style that I liked and wanted to see what motif it was.


Other than that, I run my own builds so I have never even thought about inspecting another player to see what gear he was running. I'll be damned if I let anyone inspect my gear and tell me I'm playing MY game wrong by not using a specific gear set.

Chadak

Vulkunne wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Gotta say that I'm glad there is no such ability in ESO.

Why? Because prior experience has made me 100% certain that the only appropriate way to deal with this is to make people ask and to allow people to refuse to engage with this topic if they don't want to do so. If you want to know what gear someone's running, ask. It should be up to them to tell you or not tell you as they see fit.

'Examine' options that let you snoop on other peoples' gear loadouts encourage one thing and one thing alone - nosiness. It's pure indulgence of nosiness that inclines some people to start to think that they're going to start Helping People™ by commenting on/criticizing their gear.

At its absolute best, this function can be marginally convenient when someone's asking you for help in figuring out their gear situation and you can look for yourself to see what they're starting with. This can also be accomplished by asking them to link their gear in a chat window, and IMO, that's how it *should* be addressed.

There is not one single good argument for why this needs to exist that cannot be resolved by simply asking if you're so concerned about someone's gear situation. If your concern is legit and the person in question wants your input, feedback or opinion, you can ask them about it and they can engage you on the subject.

Otherwise, live in your own yard and stop acting like you're entitled to live in mine as well.

While I don't disagree with the underlying sentiment of the post, I feel the need to bring up the subject of collaboration.

Now you say that folks need to stick to their own yard and you're entitled to do the same. Great. But I must ask you, what happens when you want to join a group?

Allow me to briefly explain. Trust is the key to any relationship and its the one thing that many random groups just don't seem to have anymore. However, even still, in order for a Team (or otherwise what we call a group) to work together then everyone has to give something. And, for some runs its perfectly reasonable for me to ask what gear everyone is running or possibly other questions as well, what build are you running with this or that role etc. So building trust requires letting someone else in.

Like you, I'm most def against someone creepin' on my account. But at the same time, if there is a need for collaboration then everyone is going to have to learn to work together in order to move forward. Everyone cannot always go in their own direction, and this is a reason why many groups fail, its why many pvp campaigns fail, including one going on right now in Grayhost lol.

Its natural and in my opinion perfectly fine for people to be comfortable however being comfortable and staying in your lane only takes you so far when you realize the need to work with someone else. And I mention this because it seems like many times, I'm basically the one carrying folks and am just getting kind of tired of eating all the risk, taking the heat, including a few abusive chat messages, while everyone else saves face and stays safe and comfortable... with a few of them also trying to take all the credit too.

I guess I just wish eso was more like it was back a couple years ago where it seemed like people were more forthcoming about working together as a Team.

DLC Vet dungeons and trials are the only group content in which caring about other peoples' gear can be justified, and even there, ask them. Ask. Fingers go clickety clack, Discord go yippety-yap.

Turns out that there's no such thing as a problem in this respect that cannot be resolved by people simply talking to each other. No special tools need to be coded in. No extra snoop features need to be programmed.

Talk to people. What are you doing in group content if you're so averse to socialization that talking to people is a mountain you just won't climb?

SPR_of_HA_community

Inspect gear ? May be better to add function to walk naked ?

Seriously - I do not like when game change a lot after it starts. But it changed a lot.

Inspecting players you get a lot of information such player put in his builds - so exp player will not like that. More casual do not care - they care about their characters look and fashion.

Do not be upset if some people will through mud to you or run naked/play weird emouts near you after that ))

The same time we already have eso logs, so some players already can do it even if you do not want it and if you are anonymous.

Ragnarok0130

Varana wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

You can with the built-in encounter log command and using the ESO Logs website. We use it on trials to look at players' gear/skills/casts to see if they're playing optimally in vet content and what we can do to help them improve. Without this feature, we would have no idea how to help players get better in content where it matters.

I also use it in random vets to inspect what pugs are using. If I'm doing 70% of the dps in a vet dlc dungeon and you ask for gear at the end, you better believe I logged, checked your setup, and decided I won't give you anything because you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared and ready for the content and relied on pugs to carry you. No free carries, no free gear.

What??!!

They are trying to get better with armor sets and you deny them. That is the exact opposite way you should behave.

"...you didn't have the decency to make sure you were geared..." How should they get geared then?

This right here is the best argument on why gear inspection should not exist.

So basically "You can't get vet gear unless you already have vet gear....which means no one can get vet gear. Logic"

Except that's not at all how it actually works since there's actually a raid gear progression. ...

Except that
a) the idea of "gear progression" is rather muddled in ESO. There is no clear tier list of gear to progress through. A trial + a dungeon set are usually preferable to two trial sets. A crafted set like Order's Wrath is useful until very far into the end game. A base-game overland set like Mother's Sorrow was widely used in top-end builds for years. And even among trial sets, the order changes considerably from patch to patch.
Plus personal skill trumps gear for a long time.

and
b) That's not what the quoted person was talking about. They were referring to the guy logging random vets to see if their random group members were "worthy" of getting their spare gear drops by already having the (in their eyes) "correct" gear.

And generally, again, what you want is already there with esologs - a tool for raid leaders to coordinate gear, and to check for issues during progression. There is zero need to do that for random players in pickup groups or even when running around overland. That's just being nosy.

Gear progression is set by each group as each guild I'm a part of has different requirements on which gear they want people to have in order to run various trials as DPS/Heals/Tank. Some raid leads even dictate which sets he or she wants in a particular raid. I also completely agree with skill trumping gear which is why i said if you meet the DPS threshold you may be invited regardless.

I understood the quoted guy's statement about dungeons which is a highly unlikely scenario that I addressed in the post immediately following that post. I then addressed the real world scenario that would likely happen with trials groups. In dungeons there is no perfected gear from vet just monster helms so he can gear fully by running normal dungeons and improve that dungeon gear to purple quality at his crafting stations, run vet to get the monster helm, and then start raiding with no risk of being kick from dungeons for gear. That is the gear progression that I was initially talking about that would get him raiding.

Vulkunne

Chadak wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Gotta say that I'm glad there is no such ability in ESO.

Why? Because prior experience has made me 100% certain that the only appropriate way to deal with this is to make people ask and to allow people to refuse to engage with this topic if they don't want to do so. If you want to know what gear someone's running, ask. It should be up to them to tell you or not tell you as they see fit.

'Examine' options that let you snoop on other peoples' gear loadouts encourage one thing and one thing alone - nosiness. It's pure indulgence of nosiness that inclines some people to start to think that they're going to start Helping People™ by commenting on/criticizing their gear.

At its absolute best, this function can be marginally convenient when someone's asking you for help in figuring out their gear situation and you can look for yourself to see what they're starting with. This can also be accomplished by asking them to link their gear in a chat window, and IMO, that's how it *should* be addressed.

There is not one single good argument for why this needs to exist that cannot be resolved by simply asking if you're so concerned about someone's gear situation. If your concern is legit and the person in question wants your input, feedback or opinion, you can ask them about it and they can engage you on the subject.

Otherwise, live in your own yard and stop acting like you're entitled to live in mine as well.

While I don't disagree with the underlying sentiment of the post, I feel the need to bring up the subject of collaboration.

Now you say that folks need to stick to their own yard and you're entitled to do the same. Great. But I must ask you, what happens when you want to join a group?

Allow me to briefly explain. Trust is the key to any relationship and its the one thing that many random groups just don't seem to have anymore. However, even still, in order for a Team (or otherwise what we call a group) to work together then everyone has to give something. And, for some runs its perfectly reasonable for me to ask what gear everyone is running or possibly other questions as well, what build are you running with this or that role etc. So building trust requires letting someone else in.

Like you, I'm most def against someone creepin' on my account. But at the same time, if there is a need for collaboration then everyone is going to have to learn to work together in order to move forward. Everyone cannot always go in their own direction, and this is a reason why many groups fail, its why many pvp campaigns fail, including one going on right now in Grayhost lol.

Its natural and in my opinion perfectly fine for people to be comfortable however being comfortable and staying in your lane only takes you so far when you realize the need to work with someone else. And I mention this because it seems like many times, I'm basically the one carrying folks and am just getting kind of tired of eating all the risk, taking the heat, including a few abusive chat messages, while everyone else saves face and stays safe and comfortable... with a few of them also trying to take all the credit too.

I guess I just wish eso was more like it was back a couple years ago where it seemed like people were more forthcoming about working together as a Team.

DLC Vet dungeons and trials are the only group content in which caring about other peoples' gear can be justified, and even there, ask them. Ask. Fingers go clickety clack, Discord go yippety-yap.

Turns out that there's no such thing as a problem in this respect that cannot be resolved by people simply talking to each other. No special tools need to be coded in. No extra snoop features need to be programmed.

Talk to people. What are you doing in group content if you're so averse to socialization that talking to people is a mountain you just won't climb?

Right and my reply to your post was about the importance of Collaboration.

What does collaboration really mean?

The dictionary defines collaboration as the: col·lab·o·ra·tion (kəˌlabəˈrāSHən) noun. the action of working together with someone to produce or create something. This is different from cooperation. To cooperate means to be helpful by doing what someone asks or tells you to do or to act in a way that makes something possible or likely.

Now you're saying that I'm adverse to socialization and that I have not already considered the basic need to talk to people, when your original post was more in favor of an attitude that will prevent both from happening by putting the burden of proof on everyone else. You must have me mistaken for another post cause that doesn't flow with what I was saying, which is very much in favor of socializing and being prepared to discuss your build and ideas with another party. Sometimes what I post can be lengthy, probably need to work on that but your reply does not match my content. In fact speaking of content, I visit this place frequently for the very purpose that you have stated that I don't seem to understand? Feel free to review and visit any of my previous posts.

Just trying to be helpful however you might want to be careful using definitive words such as 'only' and 'no such thing' because of all the years I've been playing MMOs you'd be surprised what situations might arise. Which is another reason why I felt the need to reply because I totally agree with you that people's privacy needs to be protected and they should most def be free to choose who to associate with however it just seems like no one wants to work together anymore.

At one time I regularly ran 4 man groups as well as Trial runs all the time, all hours of the night and weekends, including PvP Groups in both Cyrodiil and Imperial City and anymore it just seems like too many people want to get carried and if I ask anything of them its like I don't have right to know what's going on yet they want everything done for nothing and quite frankly alot of us are tired of this. But that's alright as this is one reason why I no longer helm many of those group activities, not the only one however.

And before you go there, some of us have tried talking to them, offered builds, ideas and so on, so forth... they just don't care. Hence, why I make it a point to take many of these types of arguments to the ESO Forums (vs being virtually ignored in zone chat) in order to publicly talk about things like Collaboration on here (once in a while) in the hopes that maybe things might change a little, with the understanding that meaningful change takes time. Sometimes it seems to help generate quite a bit of discussion and if nothing else I meet people with similar interest, hence the value of Collaboration.