Is the werewolf berserker bleed bug ever going to be fixed?

Wuuffyy

I’ve reported this multiple times now, and I’ll re-iterate again and scream in the dark here, I suppose. Werewolf berserker’s bleed does not proc the bleed status effect or any status effect. Can this be fixed, it really seems simple to me. It hasn’t done anything extra since bleed stopped full penning years ago.

Clip if needed: https://www.xbox.com/play/media/3BFK4GY9

Wuuffyy

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_Adrikoth @ZOS_ConnorG @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam if this helps my case

Wuuffyy

Any response?

Skullstachio

Kindly refer to this list of status effect chances cited from the UESP website:

• Weapon enchantment's damage: 20% base chance.
• Single-target direct attack ability: 10% base chance.
• Area-of-effect abilities: 5% base chance.
• Single-target damage-over-time abilities: 3% base chance.
• Area-of-effect damage-over-time abilities: 1% base chance
• Destruction staff Light or Heavy attack: 0% base chance.

As the light attacks of the werewolf berserker ultimate technically fall under single target damage over time, the chances of the bleeds they apply are abysmally low, 3% to be exact. You would think it would be a guaranteed 1/34 chance of applying bleed on the DoT, but apparently...

01011010 01001111 01010011 00100000 01000100 01101111 01100101 01110011 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01000111 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01000110 01110101 01100011 01101011 00101110

Wuuffyy

Skullstachio wrote: »

Kindly refer to this list of status effect chances cited from the UESP website:

• Weapon enchantment's damage: 20% base chance.
• Single-target direct attack ability: 10% base chance.
• Area-of-effect abilities: 5% base chance.
• Single-target damage-over-time abilities: 3% base chance.
• Area-of-effect damage-over-time abilities: 1% base chance
• Destruction staff Light or Heavy attack: 0% base chance.

As the light attacks of the werewolf berserker ultimate technically fall under single target damage over time, the chances of the bleeds they apply are abysmally low, 3% to be exact. You would think it would be a guaranteed 1/34 chance of applying bleed on the DoT, but apparently...

01011010 01001111 01010011 00100000 01000100 01101111 01100101 01110011 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01000111 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01000110 01110101 01100011 01101011 00101110

Thanks for your input. I know the chances. It does not proc at all, 0 chance.

Wuuffyy

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

Kindly refer to this list of status effect chances cited from the UESP website:

• Weapon enchantment's damage: 20% base chance.
• Single-target direct attack ability: 10% base chance.
• Area-of-effect abilities: 5% base chance.
• Single-target damage-over-time abilities: 3% base chance.
• Area-of-effect damage-over-time abilities: 1% base chance
• Destruction staff Light or Heavy attack: 0% base chance.

As the light attacks of the werewolf berserker ultimate technically fall under single target damage over time, the chances of the bleeds they apply are abysmally low, 3% to be exact. You would think it would be a guaranteed 1/34 chance of applying bleed on the DoT, but apparently...

01011010 01001111 01010011 00100000 01000100 01101111 01100101 01110011 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01000111 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01000110 01110101 01100011 01101011 00101110

Thanks for your input. I know the chances. It does not proc at all, 0 chance.

Also that would be 5% due to CP passive meaning a 20% chance every 4 seconds. 100 ticks with nothing but that and 0 proc. No status effect attached. Please test on PTS for proof, or live too.0-o

Wuuffyy

At the bottom of the list again…

robpr

I guess it is considered by game as light attack damage so it does not proc hemorrhaging.
While we are at fixing WW stuff, can we also look at Ferocious Roar heavy attack speed bonus? The first heavy attack after cast is not accelerated. Heavy attacks from Berry WW also should proc bleed damage like LA do.
Howl of Despair should grant timed Empower to the user while synergy give it to others.
Claws of Life healing rate is abysmal even for pve purposes.

Wuuffyy

They aren’t fixing anything apparently, in regards to this.

ZOS_GinaBruno

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

Amottica

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

Thank you for this clarification.

huskandhunger

So then why is the Berserker Bleed a bleed damage type in the first place then if it doesn't proc the hemorrhage status effect?

Shall we change it in update 36 to just be Damage over time?

Dagoth_Rac

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

Usually skills that increase light/heavy attacks have status effects and buffs built into the skill itself. Sorcerer's Crystal Weapons increases light/heavy attack but also provides an armor debuff, probably to make up for the inability of a light/heavy attack to proc Minor Breach. Psijic Order's Elemental Weapon increases light attacks and has a guarantee of applying a random elemental status effect (Burning, Concussed, or Chilled). Psijic Order's Crushing Weapon increases light attacks and has a guarantee of applying the Major Breach buff.

So the Berserker bleed increasing light attacks but not including any extra status effects or buffs makes it feel weaker than similar LA/HA-increasing skills.

essi2

huskandhunger wrote: »

So then why is the Berserker Bleed a bleed damage type in the first place then if it doesn't proc the hemorrhage status effect?

Shall we change it in update 36 to just be Damage over time?

Presumably because of the theme and so it gets buffed by Bleed dmg buffs?

acastanza_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

I've literally never played a WW but I've fought TONS of them. And even I think this is a bad decision. WW is not that strong, a chance to proc hemorrhaging would be a 100% positive change.

Wuuffyy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

You are right, it is based on LA which do not proc status effects. However, many effects just like imbue weapon, crystal weapon, caul set are directly based of proc’ing their damage off a light attack and all proc status effects on a chance as normal. It should either be re-evaluated or it needs to be clearly stated in the tooltip that it cannot proc this for x,y, z.

Anyways, clip provided, please review: https://www.xbox.com/play/media/3BFK4GY9

Wuuffyy

Please review the clip, @ZOS_GinaBruno, this means a whole lot to me. I’m one of the very few that try to make werewolf work and bugs like this make sure it stays in a perpetually abysmal state.

Darth_LucSky

I'm very happy to see fellow werewolves who care about the state we're in now. I feel like ZOS doesn't want WW to be part of any meta. Howl of Despair's synergy is completely useless with the empower changes (you can't even land 2 heavy attacks with the 5s duration empower that it provides. There's just no logic at all behind it).
I would really love if ZOS took a really good look at the state that WW is in right now. Please treat the werewolf and vampire skill lines as if they were classes of their own, in need of constant adaptation.

Kory

The Berserker bleed should proc off light AND heavy attacks anyway in my opinion.

Wuuffyy

Kory wrote: »

The Berserker bleed should proc off light AND heavy attacks anyway in my opinion.

It should, makes it much harder to weave as sticking the basic button for even an ms longer = no bleed.

Hexvaldr

Ww needs some love, I agree.

Wuuffyy

Hexvaldr wrote: »

Ww needs some love, I agree.

I really do agree. I just want the bugs fixed for now.

Wuuffyy

Has this been reviewed as of the current time @ZOS_GinaBruno?

mutthra

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects.

Werewolf Berserker
Augments your Light Attacks to gain a bleed, and your Heavy Attacks deal damage in a cone in front of you.
Cost: 300 Ultimate.
CRIMINAL ACT Transform into a beast, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds. While transformed, your Light Attacks apply a bleed for [x] Bleed Damage over 4 seconds, your Heavy Attacks deal 50% splash damage, and your Max Stamina is increased by 30%. While slotted, your Stamina Recovery is increased by 15%.

@ZOS_GinaBruno for clarity's sake, how is this supposed to work? please (have someone) explain.

thenickm2

mutthra wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno for clarity's sake, how is this supposed to work? please (have someone) explain.

"Applying a bleed" in this instance refers to the DoT caused by the WW's light attacks. This is not the same thing as the bleeding (hemorrhaging) status effect. Status effects cannot be triggered by light attacks for any weapon (e.g. you can't proc "burning" by light attacking with an inferno staff).

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

many effects just like imbue weapon, crystal weapon, caul set are directly based of proc’ing their damage off a light attack and all proc status effects on a chance as normal. It should either be re-evaluated or it needs to be clearly stated in the tooltip that it cannot proc this for x,y, z.

In these instances, the light attack damage is not responsible for causing status effects. Imbue/Crystal Weapon are both skills that do damage at the same time as, but still separate from the light attack - it's not buffing your light attacks to do more damage but rather doing a separate tick of damage at the same time as your light attack (I know this isn't how the tooltips read, but it is how the skills work, mechanically speaking). That separate tick of damage is not considered a light attack and thus can proc status effects.
The WW bleed is essentially turning your light attacks into DoTs, which (to ZoS) means the entire bleed DoT is light attack damage and unable to cause status effects. I can't justify why they've made things work like this, but just trying to offer some insight into the mechanical reason these attacks can't cause status effects at this time.

huskandhunger wrote: »

So then why is the Berserker Bleed a bleed damage type in the first place then if it doesn't proc the hemorrhage status effect?

All damage has a type, there is no "generic damage" that players can do. All damage types also have associated status effects (e.g. Bleed damage can cause the Hemorrhaging status effect, Physical damage can cause the Sundered status effect, Magic damage can cause the Overcharged status effect etc). Regardless of any damage type, light attack damage doesn't cause status effects. Flame staves won't cause burning, dual wield won't cause sundered, and WW light attacks won't cause hemorrhaging.

Wuuffyy

thenickm2 wrote: »

mutthra wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno for clarity's sake, how is this supposed to work? please (have someone) explain.

"Applying a bleed" in this instance refers to the DoT caused by the WW's light attacks. This is not the same thing as the bleeding (hemorrhaging) status effect. Status effects cannot be triggered by light attacks for any weapon (e.g. you can't proc "burning" by light attacking with an inferno staff).

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

many effects just like imbue weapon, crystal weapon, caul set are directly based of proc’ing their damage off a light attack and all proc status effects on a chance as normal. It should either be re-evaluated or it needs to be clearly stated in the tooltip that it cannot proc this for x,y, z.

In these instances, the light attack damage is not responsible for causing status effects. Imbue/Crystal Weapon are both skills that do damage at the same time as, but still separate from the light attack - it's not buffing your light attacks to do more damage but rather doing a separate tick of damage at the same time as your light attack (I know this isn't how the tooltips read, but it is how the skills work, mechanically speaking). That separate tick of damage is not considered a light attack and thus can proc status effects.
The WW bleed is essentially turning your light attacks into DoTs, which (to ZoS) means the entire bleed DoT is light attack damage and unable to cause status effects. I can't justify why they've made things work like this, but just trying to offer some insight into the mechanical reason these attacks can't cause status effects at this time.

huskandhunger wrote: »

So then why is the Berserker Bleed a bleed damage type in the first place then if it doesn't proc the hemorrhage status effect?

All damage has a type, there is no "generic damage" that players can do. All damage types also have associated status effects (e.g. Bleed damage can cause the Hemorrhaging status effect, Physical damage can cause the Sundered status effect, Magic damage can cause the Overcharged status effect etc). Regardless of any damage type, light attack damage doesn't cause status effects. Flame staves won't cause burning, dual wield won't cause sundered, and WW light attacks won't cause hemorrhaging.

That is absolutely not correct. Respectfully, this is incorrect. To be truthfully honest, it it clearly a bug and it needs to be fixed. End of story.

Wuuffyy

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

thenickm2 wrote: »

mutthra wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno for clarity's sake, how is this supposed to work? please (have someone) explain.

"Applying a bleed" in this instance refers to the DoT caused by the WW's light attacks. This is not the same thing as the bleeding (hemorrhaging) status effect. Status effects cannot be triggered by light attacks for any weapon (e.g. you can't proc "burning" by light attacking with an inferno staff).

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

many effects just like imbue weapon, crystal weapon, caul set are directly based of proc’ing their damage off a light attack and all proc status effects on a chance as normal. It should either be re-evaluated or it needs to be clearly stated in the tooltip that it cannot proc this for x,y, z.

In these instances, the light attack damage is not responsible for causing status effects. Imbue/Crystal Weapon are both skills that do damage at the same time as, but still separate from the light attack - it's not buffing your light attacks to do more damage but rather doing a separate tick of damage at the same time as your light attack (I know this isn't how the tooltips read, but it is how the skills work, mechanically speaking). That separate tick of damage is not considered a light attack and thus can proc status effects.
The WW bleed is essentially turning your light attacks into DoTs, which (to ZoS) means the entire bleed DoT is light attack damage and unable to cause status effects. I can't justify why they've made things work like this, but just trying to offer some insight into the mechanical reason these attacks can't cause status effects at this time.

huskandhunger wrote: »

So then why is the Berserker Bleed a bleed damage type in the first place then if it doesn't proc the hemorrhage status effect?

All damage has a type, there is no "generic damage" that players can do. All damage types also have associated status effects (e.g. Bleed damage can cause the Hemorrhaging status effect, Physical damage can cause the Sundered status effect, Magic damage can cause the Overcharged status effect etc). Regardless of any damage type, light attack damage doesn't cause status effects. Flame staves won't cause burning, dual wield won't cause sundered, and WW light attacks won't cause hemorrhaging.

That is absolutely not correct. Respectfully, this is incorrect. To be truthfully honest, it it clearly a bug and it needs to be fixed. End of story.

To add to that, since you seem to not know, just like caul, imbue, and crystal there is a whole separate damage that applies and that is the basic. If this “turns” your light attack into a dot as you claim there would not be a separate direct damage instance basic attack proc.

ChunkyCat

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

Hah. They gave them dogs a rabies vaccine. 💀

thenickm2

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

just like caul, imbue, and crystal there is a whole separate damage that applies and that is the basic. If this “turns” your light attack into a dot as you claim there would not be a separate direct damage instance basic attack proc.

You are correct, the DoT is a separate damage tick from the WW base light attack - saying it "turned your light attacks into a DoT" was poor choice of words on my part. I meant that to ZOS, the bleed DoT is part of your light attack damage, whereas the other things you've listed (Caluurion's, Imbue Weapon, and Crystal Weapon) are set proc/skill damage (yes, they are tied to light attacks in the way that they proc, but the damage itself isn't considered light attack damage).

Based on Gina's comment above, the dev team considers the WW DoT as light attack damage and that's why they've applied the 0% chance to the effect. I don't necessarily agree with this decision in any way, but it also doesn't sound like a bug. It sounds like the ZOS dev team is simply ignoring the community's desires, as usual.

Jammy420

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Please review the clip, @ZOS_GinaBruno, this means a whole lot to me. I’m one of the very few that try to make werewolf work and bugs like this make sure it stays in a perpetually abysmal state.

Have a werewolf myself, love her to death, and when I found out about this I was upset to say the least. Like why are vampire and ww so hated by the devs? They consistantly wreck us

Skoomah

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Bleed from Berserker is based on performing a Light Attack, and Light Attacks cannot trigger status effects. Based on that, this report doesn't sound like a bug but please let us know if there's something else going on that appears to not be working properly.

I think the confusion is because the light attack applies a bleed and don’t all sources of bleed damage proc the hemorrhage status effect? So is the bleed sourced from a skill (werewolf ultimate skill) or light attack or both?

If from a skill, then it should proc.

If from a light attack, then it shouldn’t proc.

Here’s the proc rate per AlcastHQ:

Weapon enchants 20%
Single Target Direct Damage 10%
Area of Effect Direct Damage 5%
Single Target Damage over Time 3%
Area of Effect Damage over Time 1%
Light and Heavy Attacks 0%

Seems like this is a grey area. Even with the confusion cleared up, the frustration comes from the fact that it has applied hemorrhage for a long time and is viewed by werewolf enthusiasts as another nerf along a list of many others.