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Nightblade is in despair
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MetallicMonk✭✭✭✭✭You guys who are understating nightblade's ability currently are arguing in such bad faith. You definitely do not have to sacrifice hardly anything to be survivable and have insane damage this patch on nb. I've hit 28k spec bows, 24k killer's blades, 18k incaps, the class has everything you need and more. Those of course aren't the average but 20k spec bows are not uncommon at all.
If you're complaining about the meta of the game that's something everyone and every class has to deal with.
NB is probably the best solo class currently, and just in general very powerful in a PvP setting.
I have hardly even played this class and am nowhere near as precise on it as I am on my magsorc and I'm still able to do ridiculous things with it- https://youtu.be/_jW4XLU04BkEdited by MetallicMonk on September 25, 2022 5:45AM8 -
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You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
Edited by React on September 25, 2022 6:19AM@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MetallicMonk wrote: »You guys who that are understating nightblade's ability currently are arguing in such bad faith. You definitely do not have to sacrifice hardly anything to be survivable and have insane damage this patch on nb. I've hit 28k spec bows, 24k killer's blades, 18k incaps, the class has everything you need and more. Those of course aren't the average but 20k spec bows are not uncommon at all.
If you're complaining about the meta of the game that's something everyone and every class has to deal with.
NB is probably the best solo class currently, and just in general very powerful in a PvP setting.
I have hardly even played this class and am nowhere near as precise on it as I am on my magsorc and I'm still able to do ridiculous things with it- https://youtu.be/_jW4XLU04Bk
I get the same performance on my nb as well. The only class that feels better to play in pvp at the moment is my stamden and even then, it's because stamden has better aoe burst than blade, not because blade is bad in anyway.
dk feels fine, but not as overwhelmingly strong as last patch, especially if you build for survivability instead of damage, magden feels decent now, plar just feels bad (although I haven't tried range plar yet and that looks op with the PotL bug that's still not fixed yet), I don't really play cro much, but friends and others who are good with the class have said its basically still in the same spot as before (still one of the strongest defensively and outside of bomb builds only slightly lacking in class spammable which is easily replaced with most weapon abilities), stamsorc is in an ok spot for its 2h dizzy build (other builds are struggling though) and magsorc has become all but extinct outside of PCNA, especially in openworld and/or solo play.
so nb is definitely in a good spot right now after all the buffs the class got last patch.0 -
Kory✭✭✭✭Nightblade is still awesome.
Only problem is the stun being removed from veiled strike. With the slow cooldown on recast STILL, the stun kept opponents in check sometimes, especially other nightblades or Sorcs, and any other build/class with high mobility or damage mitigation abilities.1 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade is still awesome.
Only problem is the stun being removed from veiled strike. With the slow cooldown on recast STILL, the stun kept opponents in check sometimes, especially other nightblades or Sorcs, and any other build/class with high mobility or damage mitigation abilities.
This was a really good change, though.
Having the stun on surprise/concealed made it impossible to use those abilities to properly pressure someone. Since the game has location desync and cannot accurately determine when you are "flanking", you would often stun people from directly in front of them. The stun completely ruined the ability to line up bursts and stun at your own discretion.
The stun being removed was a buff to the class in general. Off balance and incap are both far superior offensive stuns, anyways.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
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Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭I think the only spec of nb that really got gutted was ganker builds, and honestly, I have no sympathy. No cloak nb hits like a truck when built right. Invis cloak nb also hits hard if you build it right. I will say that the cases where nb is worse is if
1) you played a ganker the previous patch
2) never took off caluurions and learned to really play nb
3) haven't updated you're build to take advantage of all the new buffs2 -
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How is this off base? I've played NB on and off since the game launched, but over the past 1.5 years I've mained it more than any other class. It's my main now and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
That said, it is either the strongest or second strongest class in the game right now. The only contender is warden, as both classes received massive buffs this patch.
Also, you suggesting that DK wasn't nerfed in u35 is pretty uninformed. DKs dot pressure was completely gutted with the durations being doubled, and the most broken skill in the toolkit (molten) received a signifcant nerf.
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xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭How I feel about nightblade is the same way I feel about sorcerer. It has great potential but it's very skill based. It's not a pick up and play class, you need a certain level of skill to play it. Albeit, Nightblade has a lot more going for it offensive and defensive wise than Sorcerer, I think both are heavily skill based to a degree.
I've seen good nightblades and bad nightblades who's only success is proc cheese. But I thoroughly believe the class has a decent skill curve to be semi-decent.
And I don't even consider myself a high-tier NB playerSolo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade0 -
llElLoboll✭✭✭It's hilarious to me that some people in this thread are making a bigger issue out the supposed "lack" of damage or survivability that some classes have vs others. Let's look at the bigger picture. Else and React have already broken down that the argument of "well blade is just in a bad spot right now" is ludicrous [snip] So what is the actual issue? It's healing, more specifically off healing, and it has been for a very long time. For some reason the Devs like the idea that players can run around in open world pvp and have other players keep them alive. We saw, or at least I did, that two things happened during the "no off healing outside of a group" test that happened a while ago. 1. a ton of people died way faster because they were simply not used to having to cycle their own buffs, some of which obviously didn't even have heals slotted on their bars. 2. the performance was significantly better when you reduced the amount of heals being randomly spammed between a bunch of people. ZOS in their infinite stupidity decided that they didn't approve of either of those things happening long term and reinstated people being able to heal each other outside of grouping which immediately tanked performance again and brought back "unkillable" groups. Since then we have seen a few additions of sets like Mara's Balm which overall are just bad for the game and are also very frustrating to fight against especially outnumbered and when they are sharing heals. You think blade damage is bad, try fighting a group of Mara's users on a dk where your dots are constantly getting removed and healing them. While a few things could be adjusted on individual classes, I honestly thing we are in one of the most balanced patches that the game has seen in a very long time. The overall issue that really needs to be addressed is the insane amount of healing that is bouncing around between people and ridiculous sets like Mara's that were widely talked about on the PTS as being significantly over tuned but like most PTS cycles was ignored until it went live. As far as the healing goes in 1v1s, if you're having trouble bursting dk's this patch it's most likely a personal problem. Most dk's are building so insanely tanky that they have no real damage even when they pop corrosive, so you're either playing bad, or it's just a case where some people are legit unkillable 1v1. There are plenty of people/builds out there that are just to tanky to kill 1v1, nothing to really be upset about, you just move on and ignore them. Blade is in a fantastic spot this patch though, and looking at the current PTS notes it's looking like they'll be just as fantastic next patch.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 25, 2022 5:40PM4 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭
If we are only talking about last update (which again, I did not run Caluurions Or Oak. I didn't even buy High Isle.) then guess who was also using oakensoul? DKs. Templars. Necros. DKs had corrisve every 8 seconds. They had leap every 5. Templars spammed rite of passage, making it impossible to win encounters in Cyro and BGs if you didn't have o
This is fair but we're talking about nightblades in this thread and they saw a bunch of buffs last patch. If it were another thread about another class I'd talk about them.
From what I've experienced while fighting and playing, gankers still hit hard, hybrid nightblades are some of the best specs in the game and nbs make for solid healers.0 -
Kory✭✭✭✭Nightblade is still awesome.
Only problem is the stun being removed from veiled strike. With the slow cooldown on recast STILL, the stun kept opponents in check sometimes, especially other nightblades or Sorcs, and any other build/class with high mobility or damage mitigation abilities.
This was a really good change, though.
Having the stun on surprise/concealed made it impossible to use those abilities to properly pressure someone. Since the game has location desync and cannot accurately determine when you are "flanking", you would often stun people from directly in front of them. The stun completely ruined the ability to line up bursts and stun at your own discretion.
The stun being removed was a buff to the class in general. Off balance and incap are both far superior offensive stuns, anyways.
The stun was actually apart of the pressure. As a spammable that was given a cooldown on recasting, the stun alleviated that downside a lot. Whether you are executing, lining up burst, or simply keeping up the pressure in a fight, the guaranteed stun from the flank was great.
The off balance proc isn't as good as the former guaranteed stun because I or the opponent can recover and react much more easily to being touched by veiled strike even once. What do you do? Roll dodge, cloak, streak, block, counter Ult, step through, artic blast, whatever lol etc.
The stun kept opponents in check sometimes, as the off balance is matter of perfect timing and circumstance. Unless it's something like dizzy swing where you are snaring the opponent making it easier to set off the stun.1 -
IAmIcehouse✭✭✭✭Nightblade is still awesome.
Only problem is the stun being removed from veiled strike. With the slow cooldown on recast STILL, the stun kept opponents in check sometimes, especially other nightblades or Sorcs, and any other build/class with high mobility or damage mitigation abilities.
This was a really good change, though.
Having the stun on surprise/concealed made it impossible to use those abilities to properly pressure someone. Since the game has location desync and cannot accurately determine when you are "flanking", you would often stun people from directly in front of them. The stun completely ruined the ability to line up bursts and stun at your own discretion.
The stun being removed was a buff to the class in general. Off balance and incap are both far superior offensive stuns, anyways.
The stun was actually apart of the pressure. As a spammable that was given a cooldown on recasting, the stun alleviated that downside a lot. Whether you are executing, lining up burst, or simply keeping up the pressure in a fight, the guaranteed stun from the flank was great.
The off balance proc isn't as good as the former guaranteed stun because I or the opponent can recover and react much more easily to being touched by veiled strike even once. What do you do? Roll dodge, cloak, streak, block, counter Ult, step through, artic blast, whatever lol etc.
The stun kept opponents in check sometimes, as the off balance is matter of perfect timing and circumstance. Unless it's something like dizzy swing where you are snaring the opponent making it easier to set off the stun.
You cannot control the stun from flank. Positional desync is real and you'll stun people randomly. One of my biggest pet peeves back when I mained stamden age ago, was your heal, artic blast stunning people when you didn't want it to. Now they're on stun CD when you want to burst them. Offbalance+Mediums/incap/DB stuns are far more effective if you're fighting capable players. It's like chain spammers. If you're fighting multiple players and there is a chain spammer, that is best case scenario (assuming not in open field). You'll always have CC immunity due to an ineffective CC. My duo partner is a stamblade main, and I can't say how annoying it everyone we used to fight was perpetually on stun CD.
There is so much value in controlling your enemies CC cooldowns. All that said, this is only a buff to players who know how to leverage that. It's not one or the other, it's both.Edited by IAmIcehouse on September 25, 2022 11:54PM3 -
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https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticCuteTardigradeJKanStyle-Z2gdijgIKPEBhkvt
There's the clip of the 30k bow. Tune into the stream sometime and you'll see that I'm consistently hitting 20k+ in cyrodiil.Edited by React on September 26, 2022 6:48PM@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
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IAmIcehouse✭✭✭✭
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticCuteTardigradeJKanStyle-Z2gdijgIKPEBhkvt
There's the clip of the 30k bow. Tune into the stream sometime and you'll see that I'm consistently hitting 20k+ in cyrodiil.
That’s a fat bow. Thats hitting due to guy has guard debuff which is 30% damage taken but that’s still a whopping 23k bow.
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticCuteTardigradeJKanStyle-Z2gdijgIKPEBhkvt
There's the clip of the 30k bow. Tune into the stream sometime and you'll see that I'm consistently hitting 20k+ in cyrodiil.
That’s a fat bow. Thats hitting due to guy has guard debuff which is 30% damage taken but that’s still a whopping 23k bow.
According to JTK after some testing, the puncture debuff is not a static 30% and in many cases seems to be 15-20% - it's likely tied to keep/resource level in some way.
Anyways, I've hit 28.5k without the guard debuff aswell this patch. This bow is the largest one I've seen yet, though.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
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Mannjdyr✭✭✭
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticCuteTardigradeJKanStyle-Z2gdijgIKPEBhkvt
There's the clip of the 30k bow. Tune into the stream sometime and you'll see that I'm consistently hitting 20k+ in cyrodiil.
Ok, thanks ! -> Full pen with major/minor breach + balorg + debuff ulti 20% + proc vulnerability = nice ! ^^1 -
MurkyWetWolf198✭✭✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticCuteTardigradeJKanStyle-Z2gdijgIKPEBhkvt
There's the clip of the 30k bow. Tune into the stream sometime and you'll see that I'm consistently hitting 20k+ in cyrodiil.
That’s a fat bow. Thats hitting due to guy has guard debuff which is 30% damage taken but that’s still a whopping 23k bow.
According to JTK after some testing, the puncture debuff is not a static 30% and in many cases seems to be 15-20% - it's likely tied to keep/resource level in some way.
Anyways, I've hit 28.5k without the guard debuff aswell this patch. This bow is the largest one I've seen yet, though.
Not to dunk on PvP, but it is very amusing to see y'all popping off over 28k bow procs when the PvE has them hitting 100k+ in organized raids. Like, I completely get that comparing those two numbers is meaningless and that the value of damage is orders of magnitude higher in PvP (High numbers are harder to reach and thus "lower" numbers are more impressive). But still. It is funny to think about imo lol0 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
It is if you combo it with meditate.
yeah not really
I tried as a max hp tank to use this and with every mitigation buff I could get and frankly useless because dodging/LoS canceling the entire damage is much more efficent than trying to out heal 15k hits while reaching 10k heal max
Want a great heal? Use resolving vigor for double the healing without having to sacrifice any damage
I play a pure brawler vamp blade, I am struggling to replace dark cloak. I am simply still using it, and am biting my teeth honestly. Any alteration of this build just makes it unplayable, there isnt much flexibility when it comes to a pure vamp atm. Brawlblade worked fantastic with it, after a years worth of tinkering ( dont have much time to play ), and now its back to being mediocre. No heal provides the utility that dark cloak does.0 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ninjagank
There is a tank meta, damage is down, and there is at least 1 defensive set causing problems not to mention the other ones that were always popular.
Don't you think that is probably the extent of the problem more so than the actual nightblade class being weak? Pretty sure they got buffed this patch.
I'm playing a warden, wearing 0 defensive sets, and I can't kill some of these dks and wardens either.
There's no reason to buff nb to a point where they can kill these types because the overall problem needs to get fixed for everyone and when/if that happens we don't need to instantly be transported back to a 1 shot gank meta.
Whether you play your nb in a "haha I gank," style or not, most do, and as such the class needs to be balanced very carefully. The class is capable of insane damage as is. They don't need to be buffed because tanks exist. Ganking is not nor has ever been a hard counter to tanks. It just makes everyone else's lives miserable, because everyone else is who actually gets chosen as a target.
I would like to know how nightblades were buffed. My vamp brawlblade would beg to differ.0 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
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You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.0 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
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You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.
1 single overperforming sticky heal over time ability got nerfed to bring it in line with other class heal over time abilities.
The class still has one of the best burst heals in the game as well as multiple other reliable HoTs (both in class and out of class) that provide multiple other defensive and offensive buffs on top of strong passive healing as well. Nb was almost as tanky as dks and plars last patch, that is not healthy on a class that is supposed to be a pure dd by design. refreshing path is still an insane HoT providing as much passive healing as plars cleansing ritual on top of also providing major expedition and thanks to the buff to concealed an essentially permanent unique +10% to damage done. healthy offering matches honor the dead and resistent flesh for raw base healing and grants mending on top of this as well. there's also siphoning strikes which is a better and more consistent crit surge that provides sustain instead of major sorcery/brutality which is sourced elsewhere in the class kit. not to mention, the fact that the class has access to minor courage, minor main and minor + major cowardice all within the class kit, that is a swing of around 860 flat raw damage (before % buffs/debuffs) as well as 5% additional mitigation and this is before we even look at the class passives. even dk doesn't have this amount of mitigation outside of using an ultimate (corrosive). The delayed burst also provides up to 300 flat raw weapon and spell damage on top of dealing roughly 1.5 times the base damage (before any buffs) of every other delayed burst skill in the game and also has the potential to give a big burst heal (not reliable, but it is there), 1 ultimate also gives a huge unique +20% increased damage taken by enemies affected by it from all damage sources for a decent duration and being unique debuff, it stacks with major/minor vulnerability/berserk.
So the class is most definitely better than it used to be, it's not even an argument at this stage, especially for anyone who can actually play the class and not crutch on overtuned abilities like the U34 dark cloak or overtuned proc sets like caluurions.6 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »IAmIcehouse wrote: »
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticCuteTardigradeJKanStyle-Z2gdijgIKPEBhkvt
There's the clip of the 30k bow. Tune into the stream sometime and you'll see that I'm consistently hitting 20k+ in cyrodiil.
That’s a fat bow. Thats hitting due to guy has guard debuff which is 30% damage taken but that’s still a whopping 23k bow.
According to JTK after some testing, the puncture debuff is not a static 30% and in many cases seems to be 15-20% - it's likely tied to keep/resource level in some way.
Anyways, I've hit 28.5k without the guard debuff aswell this patch. This bow is the largest one I've seen yet, though.
Not to dunk on PvP, but it is very amusing to see y'all popping off over 28k bow procs when the PvE has them hitting 100k+ in organized raids. Like, I completely get that comparing those two numbers is meaningless and that the value of damage is orders of magnitude higher in PvP (High numbers are harder to reach and thus "lower" numbers are more impressive). But still. It is funny to think about imo lol
PvP target has battle spirit which reduces damage by half. Then often almost twice the resist as an NPC. Then impen which reduces crit damage by 40% or so. Then sometimes minor and major protection. Then depending on where you are at, CP that further reduces damage. And then players on average have much less HP hence why they do Battle spirit.1 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »
You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.
1 single overperforming sticky heal over time ability got nerfed to bring it in line with other class heal over time abilities.
The class still has one of the best burst heals in the game as well as multiple other reliable HoTs (both in class and out of class) that provide multiple other defensive and offensive buffs on top of strong passive healing as well. Nb was almost as tanky as dks and plars last patch, that is not healthy on a class that is supposed to be a pure dd by design. refreshing path is still an insane HoT providing as much passive healing as plars cleansing ritual on top of also providing major expedition and thanks to the buff to concealed an essentially permanent unique +10% to damage done. healthy offering matches honor the dead and resistent flesh for raw base healing and grants mending on top of this as well. there's also siphoning strikes which is a better and more consistent crit surge that provides sustain instead of major sorcery/brutality which is sourced elsewhere in the class kit. not to mention, the fact that the class has access to minor courage, minor main and minor + major cowardice all within the class kit, that is a swing of around 860 flat raw damage (before % buffs/debuffs) as well as 5% additional mitigation and this is before we even look at the class passives. even dk doesn't have this amount of mitigation outside of using an ultimate (corrosive). The delayed burst also provides up to 300 flat raw weapon and spell damage on top of dealing roughly 1.5 times the base damage (before any buffs) of every other delayed burst skill in the game and also has the potential to give a big burst heal (not reliable, but it is there), 1 ultimate also gives a huge unique +20% increased damage taken by enemies affected by it from all damage sources for a decent duration and being unique debuff, it stacks with major/minor vulnerability/berserk.
So the class is most definitely better than it used to be, it's not even an argument at this stage, especially for anyone who can actually play the class and not crutch on overtuned abilities like the U34 dark cloak or overtuned proc sets like caluurions.
How on earth was it over performing? It was in a great spot, not too strong not too weak, it was good for mobility for tanks and for dds, it could have been based on armor level, and that would have satisified pretty much everyone. In order for it to be powerful you needed to sacrifice other stats, unlike other classes who can simply stack x resource and itll make everything stronger. Now its more along the lines of a turret class skill, which flies in the face of everything the nightblade was and is.
It was also fantastic for vampires since our kit is severely lacking a good health based heal, since two of our main skills cost health. So it synergized PERFECTLY. Now once again, mediocre.
The class has also not been pure damage by design for years, when they decided to make all the classes able to do anything, and it also flies in the face of their design choice of play how you want.
We will simply have to agree to disagree, because saying NB was nearly as tanky as DK last patch. Just no.Edited by Jammy420 on September 27, 2022 3:46PM0 -
IAmIcehouse✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »
You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.
1 single overperforming sticky heal over time ability got nerfed to bring it in line with other class heal over time abilities.
The class still has one of the best burst heals in the game as well as multiple other reliable HoTs (both in class and out of class) that provide multiple other defensive and offensive buffs on top of strong passive healing as well. Nb was almost as tanky as dks and plars last patch, that is not healthy on a class that is supposed to be a pure dd by design. refreshing path is still an insane HoT providing as much passive healing as plars cleansing ritual on top of also providing major expedition and thanks to the buff to concealed an essentially permanent unique +10% to damage done. healthy offering matches honor the dead and resistent flesh for raw base healing and grants mending on top of this as well. there's also siphoning strikes which is a better and more consistent crit surge that provides sustain instead of major sorcery/brutality which is sourced elsewhere in the class kit. not to mention, the fact that the class has access to minor courage, minor main and minor + major cowardice all within the class kit, that is a swing of around 860 flat raw damage (before % buffs/debuffs) as well as 5% additional mitigation and this is before we even look at the class passives. even dk doesn't have this amount of mitigation outside of using an ultimate (corrosive). The delayed burst also provides up to 300 flat raw weapon and spell damage on top of dealing roughly 1.5 times the base damage (before any buffs) of every other delayed burst skill in the game and also has the potential to give a big burst heal (not reliable, but it is there), 1 ultimate also gives a huge unique +20% increased damage taken by enemies affected by it from all damage sources for a decent duration and being unique debuff, it stacks with major/minor vulnerability/berserk.
So the class is most definitely better than it used to be, it's not even an argument at this stage, especially for anyone who can actually play the class and not crutch on overtuned abilities like the U34 dark cloak or overtuned proc sets like caluurions.
Pure DD by design? Nightblade has one of the most robust healing kits of all the classes.
The forums have this weird depiction that NBs are glass cannon be design. People that want to play glass cannon play NB because they have access to shadowy disguise—NB has so much more at its disposal for survivability. It has the only class source of Major Evasion, it has so many HoTs in its kit, one of the ranged and AoE spammables have secondary healing effects, and until U35, it had one of the very few sources of Minor Resolve. Until U35 changes on veiled strike, nothing about NB screamed “I am the damage class”. Shadowy Disguise has just been a glass cannon crutch for so long that people associate NB with glass cannon.3 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »
You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.
1 single overperforming sticky heal over time ability got nerfed to bring it in line with other class heal over time abilities.
The class still has one of the best burst heals in the game as well as multiple other reliable HoTs (both in class and out of class) that provide multiple other defensive and offensive buffs on top of strong passive healing as well. Nb was almost as tanky as dks and plars last patch, that is not healthy on a class that is supposed to be a pure dd by design. refreshing path is still an insane HoT providing as much passive healing as plars cleansing ritual on top of also providing major expedition and thanks to the buff to concealed an essentially permanent unique +10% to damage done. healthy offering matches honor the dead and resistent flesh for raw base healing and grants mending on top of this as well. there's also siphoning strikes which is a better and more consistent crit surge that provides sustain instead of major sorcery/brutality which is sourced elsewhere in the class kit. not to mention, the fact that the class has access to minor courage, minor main and minor + major cowardice all within the class kit, that is a swing of around 860 flat raw damage (before % buffs/debuffs) as well as 5% additional mitigation and this is before we even look at the class passives. even dk doesn't have this amount of mitigation outside of using an ultimate (corrosive). The delayed burst also provides up to 300 flat raw weapon and spell damage on top of dealing roughly 1.5 times the base damage (before any buffs) of every other delayed burst skill in the game and also has the potential to give a big burst heal (not reliable, but it is there), 1 ultimate also gives a huge unique +20% increased damage taken by enemies affected by it from all damage sources for a decent duration and being unique debuff, it stacks with major/minor vulnerability/berserk.
So the class is most definitely better than it used to be, it's not even an argument at this stage, especially for anyone who can actually play the class and not crutch on overtuned abilities like the U34 dark cloak or overtuned proc sets like caluurions.
Pure DD by design? Nightblade has one of the most robust healing kits of all the classes.
The forums have this weird depiction that NBs are glass cannon be design. People that want to play glass cannon play NB because they have access to shadowy disguise—NB has so much more at its disposal for survivability. It has the only class source of Major Evasion, it has so many HoTs in its kit, one of the ranged and AoE spammables have secondary healing effects, and until U35, it had one of the very few sources of Minor Resolve. Until U35 changes on veiled strike, nothing about NB screamed “I am the damage class”. Shadowy Disguise has just been a glass cannon crutch for so long that people associate NB with glass cannon.
I know the class has so much more. I was talking about its original design parameters it had years ago, early into the games life. It has had so much more given to it over the years because its the only class that any of the devs actually play so the devs have constantly buffs nbs to become the current jack of all trades master of most that the class is now.0 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »
You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.
1 single overperforming sticky heal over time ability got nerfed to bring it in line with other class heal over time abilities.
The class still has one of the best burst heals in the game as well as multiple other reliable HoTs (both in class and out of class) that provide multiple other defensive and offensive buffs on top of strong passive healing as well. Nb was almost as tanky as dks and plars last patch, that is not healthy on a class that is supposed to be a pure dd by design. refreshing path is still an insane HoT providing as much passive healing as plars cleansing ritual on top of also providing major expedition and thanks to the buff to concealed an essentially permanent unique +10% to damage done. healthy offering matches honor the dead and resistent flesh for raw base healing and grants mending on top of this as well. there's also siphoning strikes which is a better and more consistent crit surge that provides sustain instead of major sorcery/brutality which is sourced elsewhere in the class kit. not to mention, the fact that the class has access to minor courage, minor main and minor + major cowardice all within the class kit, that is a swing of around 860 flat raw damage (before % buffs/debuffs) as well as 5% additional mitigation and this is before we even look at the class passives. even dk doesn't have this amount of mitigation outside of using an ultimate (corrosive). The delayed burst also provides up to 300 flat raw weapon and spell damage on top of dealing roughly 1.5 times the base damage (before any buffs) of every other delayed burst skill in the game and also has the potential to give a big burst heal (not reliable, but it is there), 1 ultimate also gives a huge unique +20% increased damage taken by enemies affected by it from all damage sources for a decent duration and being unique debuff, it stacks with major/minor vulnerability/berserk.
So the class is most definitely better than it used to be, it's not even an argument at this stage, especially for anyone who can actually play the class and not crutch on overtuned abilities like the U34 dark cloak or overtuned proc sets like caluurions.
Pure DD by design? Nightblade has one of the most robust healing kits of all the classes.
The forums have this weird depiction that NBs are glass cannon be design. People that want to play glass cannon play NB because they have access to shadowy disguise—NB has so much more at its disposal for survivability. It has the only class source of Major Evasion, it has so many HoTs in its kit, one of the ranged and AoE spammables have secondary healing effects, and until U35, it had one of the very few sources of Minor Resolve. Until U35 changes on veiled strike, nothing about NB screamed “I am the damage class”. Shadowy Disguise has just been a glass cannon crutch for so long that people associate NB with glass cannon.
Exactly. Nightblade, and all classes by Zos' design choice of all classes being able to do everything, has not been about only damage in over 4 years. Nightblade has however, been about mobility, and fast relfexes since TES was created, and especially in ESO. Remember the dodge tanks? Those were all mainly nightblades. Now it seems they are trying to turn the nightblade into something stationary?0 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »IAmIcehouse wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »
You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.
Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.
I have 30k HP. No defending backbar. No defensive monster set. RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn. I am hitting tanky people for 18-20k bows. I have hit a 30k bow for the first time EVER this patch. I am hitting my properly geared, 3300+ crit resist, 32k+ spell resist friends for 15-18k bows, 11k incaps, 7-9k concealed weapons. I doubt you are hitting harder than these numbers, unless you're playing a straight up gank build. If you are hitting harder and you're still struggling to kill people, I just don't know what to tell you.What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.
People do not run out of resources in this patch in 1v1s if they have any idea at all what they're doing, outside of niche scenarios fighting broken outlier 1v1 builds (zaan serpents coil serpents disdain dot setups, etc). I have no issues at all killing the vast majority of players 1v1 this patch on my nightblade in my open world setup, whereas on literally ANY OTHER CLASS (I play them all bar magsorc) it is significantly harder/impossible sometimes. The only players I cannot outright one shot are those using mara's balm and playing full defensive/not fighting back. That isn't a problem with nightblade, it's a problem with the game's meta.My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.
And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.
Without considering things like procs and oakensoul, nightblade is the strongest it has been in the past year at least. DKs are hardly the hardest thing to kill right now - warden is by far the strongest defensively, and templar is objectively harder to kill than DK with the ability to instantly purge your incaps.
It is odd to me that you're saying you have never used calu, but when calu was getting nerfed last PTS you made multiple posts justifying the surprise attack buff because "NB's main proc is being gutted".Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.
If we're citing 1v1s - in the PC NA dueling meta, NB is top dog currently. I have not yet lost a 1v1 in stormhaven or cyrodiil this patch on my RC/NMG/Balorgh/markyn setup. You mentioned glass cannon - my setup is full damage, but not nearly "glass cannon". If you truly wanted to drop all the survivability for that extra bit of damage, I am confident there is not a single player who isn't an actual healer/tank that you couldn't one shot. But the truth is, NB damage is so insane this patch that you simply do not need to.Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.
The thing is, stamina/magicka nightblade do not exist anymore. The game is fully hybridized. On every single class, there is literally no reason at all that you should not be choosing the better morph of every skill in the toolkit.
You are intentionally gimping yourself if you are not using the better morph of every skill and building your sustain accordingly.
How is it arguably better when its heal has been nerfed to oblivion? If that change didnt occur i could agree with you, but not until then.
1 single overperforming sticky heal over time ability got nerfed to bring it in line with other class heal over time abilities.
The class still has one of the best burst heals in the game as well as multiple other reliable HoTs (both in class and out of class) that provide multiple other defensive and offensive buffs on top of strong passive healing as well. Nb was almost as tanky as dks and plars last patch, that is not healthy on a class that is supposed to be a pure dd by design. refreshing path is still an insane HoT providing as much passive healing as plars cleansing ritual on top of also providing major expedition and thanks to the buff to concealed an essentially permanent unique +10% to damage done. healthy offering matches honor the dead and resistent flesh for raw base healing and grants mending on top of this as well. there's also siphoning strikes which is a better and more consistent crit surge that provides sustain instead of major sorcery/brutality which is sourced elsewhere in the class kit. not to mention, the fact that the class has access to minor courage, minor main and minor + major cowardice all within the class kit, that is a swing of around 860 flat raw damage (before % buffs/debuffs) as well as 5% additional mitigation and this is before we even look at the class passives. even dk doesn't have this amount of mitigation outside of using an ultimate (corrosive). The delayed burst also provides up to 300 flat raw weapon and spell damage on top of dealing roughly 1.5 times the base damage (before any buffs) of every other delayed burst skill in the game and also has the potential to give a big burst heal (not reliable, but it is there), 1 ultimate also gives a huge unique +20% increased damage taken by enemies affected by it from all damage sources for a decent duration and being unique debuff, it stacks with major/minor vulnerability/berserk.
So the class is most definitely better than it used to be, it's not even an argument at this stage, especially for anyone who can actually play the class and not crutch on overtuned abilities like the U34 dark cloak or overtuned proc sets like caluurions.
Pure DD by design? Nightblade has one of the most robust healing kits of all the classes.
The forums have this weird depiction that NBs are glass cannon be design. People that want to play glass cannon play NB because they have access to shadowy disguise—NB has so much more at its disposal for survivability. It has the only class source of Major Evasion, it has so many HoTs in its kit, one of the ranged and AoE spammables have secondary healing effects, and until U35, it had one of the very few sources of Minor Resolve. Until U35 changes on veiled strike, nothing about NB screamed “I am the damage class”. Shadowy Disguise has just been a glass cannon crutch for so long that people associate NB with glass cannon.
I know the class has so much more. I was talking about its original design parameters it had years ago, early into the games life. It has had so much more given to it over the years because its the only class that any of the devs actually play so the devs have constantly buffs nbs to become the current jack of all trades master of most that the class is now.
You must not have been around for the elsywer patch 😂1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeeeah, tell that to upper 10k bow procs nightblades. No other class has hit me for that number in this patch so far. Ofc their combos can get predictable but if you also play the game, you find a way around it yourself to counter the counter.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel2