Nightblade is in despair

master_vanargand

I despaired when I learned that Nightblade hadn't changed.
As a player who likes rogue classes, Nightblade is currently the worst in PvP.
Nightblade has no surprises and no fun.
If ZoS thinks the current Nightblade is perfect, that's sad.

DrSlaughtr

It's not in a good place because players have built so tanky that they can eat and heal out of our burst, then can turn around and kill us in a second.

Most NBs I see are building to 30k health with low damage and just run with big groups to get kills.

If you push max damage, pen and crit, you can't 1v1 most builds at the same level as before.

There are no reliable proc sets that do enough damage without requiring mentally gymnastics to land.

We really could've used that always flank crit from SA.

For my part I've tried every NB build posted in the last few weeks. None each my kill ratio of the previous several patches.

It's frustrating. I've just tried to accept that this is the new normal until devs do something to help us out.

React

Nightblade is literally the #1 or #2 strongest PVP class right now.

Zekka

Lol, meanwhile you have very sturdy NBs hitting people with near 20k spectral bows in Cyro and Alikr.

FrankonPC

The only way nightblade is worse this patch compared to last patch is if you were on a caluurions/oakensoul build in update 34. For literally everyone else it's better and one of the best specs in the game when built properly.

acastanza_ESO

If you think Nightblade is the worst class in PVP then you
1) have never played sorcerer
2) aren't very good at nigthblade

Nightblade is crazy good, able to build extremely tanky and still have great heals and great burst damage with guarenteed crits. Literally the only thing that got nerfed was 1hko proc-set crutching ganks.

ninjagank wrote: »

If you push max damage, pen and crit, you can't 1v1 most builds at the same level as before.

If you put nothing into defense you aren't going to be able to 1v1 every other class, the idea that you should be able to is completely unreasonable.

Based on the things that have been said here, I can only assume that this all is some sort of elaborate joke.

Turtle_Bot

NB is the top overall class for pvp, with only stamden (not magden though) able to compete with the class. The class has insane burst damage, easy and well flowing skill rotations and very strong heals alongside plenty of mitigation and utility.

If you're struggling on a nb this patch, you either need to update your build or learn to play the class properly and not rely on crutch sets like oakensoul and caluurions.

If you want to see a really bad class in pvp, go play magsorc. The class is literally extinct in pvp, especially in open world and in CP.

IAmIcehouse

master_vanargand wrote: »

I despaired when I learned that Nightblade hadn't changed.
As a player who likes rogue classes, Nightblade is currently the worst in PvP.
Nightblade has no surprises and no fun.
If ZoS thinks the current Nightblade is perfect, that's sad.

Nightblades are incredibly strong. Personally, I think cloak shouldn't exist. Invisibility is a terrible mechanic for PvP. But even worse are one-shots from stealth. If this is how you guage whether or not NB is in a good spot, you need to re-evaluate. NB is incredibly strong, but maybe you can't build full glass anymore.

--coming from a NB main.

boi_anachronism_

Yeah NB in PVP is extremely strong. It's PVE where it had problems because stealth is essentially useless in trials and dungeons hence the buffs this patch. It's hard to play well, definitely high skill with bow proc but it is arguably the #1 or #2 spot although it's having a much harder time with the Uber tank meta this patch.

Jammy420

FrankonPC wrote: »

The only way nightblade is worse this patch compared to last patch is if you were on a caluurions/oakensoul build in update 34. For literally everyone else it's better and one of the best specs in the game when built properly.

The dark cloak heal is objectively not better.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Jammy420 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

The only way nightblade is worse this patch compared to last patch is if you were on a caluurions/oakensoul build in update 34. For literally everyone else it's better and one of the best specs in the game when built properly.

The dark cloak heal is objectively not better.

It is if you combo it with meditate.

UnassumingNoob

Please take Nightblade out of your mouth when talking about worst pvp specs. Mag Sorc and traditional Templar playstyle are far worse.

master_vanargand

To be honest, noob are the only people who feel Nightblade is strong in PvP right now.
Sorc and other class people are encouraged to talk about their class elsewhere instead of criticizing Nightblade here.

FrankonPC

Jammy420 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

The only way nightblade is worse this patch compared to last patch is if you were on a caluurions/oakensoul build in update 34. For literally everyone else it's better and one of the best specs in the game when built properly.

The dark cloak heal is objectively not better.

yes, a nerf to dark cloak is expected every patch. it was still a net positive pts for nb though

FrankonPC

master_vanargand wrote: »

To be honest, noob are the only people who feel Nightblade is strong in PvP right now.
Sorc and other class people are encouraged to talk about their class elsewhere instead of criticizing Nightblade here.

To be honest, there are a lot of people in this thread that play a lot of nightblade and succeed with it that are providing their opinions objectively after playing and succeeding with the class.

It's fine to disagree with an opinion, but to try and ad hominem a group of people because you disagree doesn't help prove your point.

TechMaybeHic

I think it's easy to say "my class sucks now" and not look around and see where other classes are. A lot got gutted. I feel like NBs got the least of it, but whatever. My problem would be that I have played every class, and I no longer like any of them, really.

master_vanargand

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I think it's easy to say "my class sucks now" and not look around and see where other classes are. A lot got gutted. I feel like NBs got the least of it, but whatever. My problem would be that I have played every class, and I no longer like any of them, really.

I agree with your opinion.
Everyone is annoyed because of the nerf.
The good days are over, and now people's favorite class feels like a motionless old man.

MetallicMonk

Nightblade is insane atm lmao.

I have no clue how anybody could think this class is bad, even on paper the offensive stats and the amount of % damage loaded on abilities like incap and concealed is overwhelming. Also it has a ridiculous burst heal that you can spam.

Time to look at what you're doing wrong if you're not having success, not the class.

Ankael07

NBs have been getting easy kills with Caluurion (and many other proc sets) for years they forgot how actual combat is. Welcome to reality where people can react before they die

Firstmep

Nb feels great, if you can combo your burst well you can be extremely effective.
If your definition of nightblade is 1 shot gank from stealth with procsets than yes it's worse off.
And that's a good thing.

master_vanargand

When people talk about Nightblade, it's greatly exaggerated.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Jammy420

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

The only way nightblade is worse this patch compared to last patch is if you were on a caluurions/oakensoul build in update 34. For literally everyone else it's better and one of the best specs in the game when built properly.

The dark cloak heal is objectively not better.

It is if you combo it with meditate.

The fact that you have to combo it with another skill, proves in fact that the skill is not better. Nightblade is a mobile class, and dark cloak as is flies in the face of that. If anything it should be based on your armor rating how much it heals, not some arbitrary mechanic that makes no sense for the class.

Jammy420

Ankael07 wrote: »

NBs have been getting easy kills with Caluurion (and many other proc sets) for years they forgot how actual combat is. Welcome to reality where people can react before they die

Gank blade has been ridiculous for a while, but people are forgetting there is more to that than nightblade, and the rework of dark cloak flies in the face of the nightblade being a mobile class.

Foxtrot39

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

The only way nightblade is worse this patch compared to last patch is if you were on a caluurions/oakensoul build in update 34. For literally everyone else it's better and one of the best specs in the game when built properly.

The dark cloak heal is objectively not better.

It is if you combo it with meditate.

yeah not really

I tried as a max hp tank to use this and with every mitigation buff I could get and frankly useless because dodging/LoS canceling the entire damage is much more efficent than trying to out heal 15k hits while reaching 10k heal max

Want a great heal? Use resolving vigor for double the healing without having to sacrifice any damage

lonnml

I see 0 nightblades in high mmr BG. Very rare. Bad pvp class and a lot of people in this thread do not know what they are talking about

DrSlaughtr

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

If you think Nightblade is the worst class in PVP then you
1) have never played sorcerer
2) aren't very good at nigthblade

Nightblade is crazy good, able to build extremely tanky and still have great heals and great burst damage with guarenteed crits. Literally the only thing that got nerfed was 1hko proc-set crutching ganks.

ninjagank wrote: »

If you push max damage, pen and crit, you can't 1v1 most builds at the same level as before.

If you put nothing into defense you aren't going to be able to 1v1 every other class, the idea that you should be able to is completely unreasonable.

Based on the things that have been said here, I can only assume that this all is some sort of elaborate joke.

You apparently didn't read everything I wrote.

Most NBs I run into now are sitting at around 30k health with higher than normal armor. Their damage is severely lacking compared to mine, but because they are running with others, it doesn't matter. If they attack me 1v1, they can't kill me.

What I said was, there is no reliable way to 1v1 the current tank meta with a damage class. "Build for defense" means less damage. So what you are insinuating is everyone needs to build for tankiness and just wack one another until someone eventually runs out of resources and the other wins.

My kill to death ratio is significantly lower than previous patches and I have ran through so many transmutes and gold trying out the latest and greatest "super OP awesome Nightblade Spectacular" and none of them hit hard enough to put down most DKs without help from others. This has not been the case in previous patches.

And I see a whole lot of snarky comments about caluurions. I didn't run that before. I don't run that now.

I see a lot of snarky comments about "now you have to fight ha ha!" I've always had to fight. I don't mind fighting. What I mind is knocking someone down to a sliver of health and in one second they are back to 100%. What I mind is that every other class can benefit from ridiculous defensive proc sets but we have little access to any damage proc sets to off-set.

And yes, spectral bow can hit hard, but you have to build it up, make sure it doesn't drop before you can even use it, and hope it doesn't miss for a dozen different reasons.

I know there are a LOT of players who hate NBs, who are more than happy to know they can't be killed unless under extreme pressure from numerous targets. I personally don't understand why people want five minute stalemates, but maybe it's because I prefer damage and high TTK for my targets and myself.

Either way, anyone calling NBs top class is just wrong. DKs, Templars, Wardens and Necros are all running roughshod over the campaigns, tankier than ever. Let's stop pretending like NBs are remotely competing 1v1 with anyone outside of two tanks just smacking one endlessly. If you push a glass cannon, you can't kill most players without significant help.

Edit: I am specifically talking about Stamblades. Magblades are doing a little better with tankier set ups.

OBJnoob

@ninjagank
There is a tank meta, damage is down, and there is at least 1 defensive set causing problems not to mention the other ones that were always popular.

Don't you think that is probably the extent of the problem more so than the actual nightblade class being weak? Pretty sure they got buffed this patch.

I'm playing a warden, wearing 0 defensive sets, and I can't kill some of these dks and wardens either.

There's no reason to buff nb to a point where they can kill these types because the overall problem needs to get fixed for everyone and when/if that happens we don't need to instantly be transported back to a 1 shot gank meta.

Whether you play your nb in a "haha I gank," style or not, most do, and as such the class needs to be balanced very carefully. The class is capable of insane damage as is. They don't need to be buffed because tanks exist. Ganking is not nor has ever been a hard counter to tanks. It just makes everyone else's lives miserable, because everyone else is who actually gets chosen as a target.

FrankonPC

Ankael07 wrote: »

NBs have been getting easy kills with Caluurion (and many other proc sets) for years they forgot how actual combat is. Welcome to reality where people can react before they die

This, cull the herd or let them figure out there's so much more to the class than skill + proc + cloak.

DrSlaughtr

FrankonPC wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

NBs have been getting easy kills with Caluurion (and many other proc sets) for years they forgot how actual combat is. Welcome to reality where people can react before they die

This, cull the herd or let them figure out there's so much more to the class than skill + proc + cloak.

As opposed to everyone else? Maras + plague + Balorgs + Ulti then block until repeat?

I can sit here and pick apart every other class. Fact is, people give a hard look at other classes/builds but ignore the easy mode they ride themselves. It takes absolutely no more skill to perma block until ultimate procs and then corrosive or leap people to proc plague than it did to use caluurions. Either way, I didn't use it because I didn't need to and I don't like sets killing for me.

FrankonPC

ninjagank wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

NBs have been getting easy kills with Caluurion (and many other proc sets) for years they forgot how actual combat is. Welcome to reality where people can react before they die

This, cull the herd or let them figure out there's so much more to the class than skill + proc + cloak.

As opposed to everyone else? Maras + plague + Balorgs + Ulti then block until repeat?

I can sit here and pick apart every other class. Fact is, people give a hard look at other classes/builds but ignore the easy mode they ride themselves. It takes absolutely no more skill to perma block until ultimate procs and then corrosive or leap people to proc plague than it did to use caluurions. Either way, I didn't use it because I didn't need to and I don't like sets killing for me.

This hypothetical example, although easy as well, is multitudes more steps than what caluurions oakensoul gankers had to do. It's nice to see the skill bar raised just a little bit.

DrSlaughtr

FrankonPC wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

NBs have been getting easy kills with Caluurion (and many other proc sets) for years they forgot how actual combat is. Welcome to reality where people can react before they die

This, cull the herd or let them figure out there's so much more to the class than skill + proc + cloak.

As opposed to everyone else? Maras + plague + Balorgs + Ulti then block until repeat?

I can sit here and pick apart every other class. Fact is, people give a hard look at other classes/builds but ignore the easy mode they ride themselves. It takes absolutely no more skill to perma block until ultimate procs and then corrosive or leap people to proc plague than it did to use caluurions. Either way, I didn't use it because I didn't need to and I don't like sets killing for me.

This hypothetical example, although easy as well, is multitudes more steps than what caluurions oakensoul gankers had to do. It's nice to see the skill bar raised just a little bit.

If we are only talking about last update (which again, I did not run Caluurions Or Oak. I didn't even buy High Isle.) then guess who was also using oakensoul? DKs. Templars. Necros. DKs had corrisve every 8 seconds. They had leap every 5. Templars spammed rite of passage, making it impossible to win encounters in Cyro and BGs if you didn't have one on your side.

If you want to compare class to class, then use the same update. There is nothing remotely difficult about meta DK play right now. Other classes are a little harder but not by much. The basic principle on 90% of Cyrodiil builds right now are avoid avoid avoid using defensive sets, mitigation and heals, then using balorgs to ultimate dump on everyone in your path. Anyone can pick up a DK with plague, mara and balorgs and within a day be competent enough to wipe entire groups up that struggled to kill them despite massive damage.

On NB, you can build to do the same thing, but your damage will be significantly lower than DKs. If you build to do max damage, crit damage and pen on a stam NB you will not have the same success on previous patches. This has nothing to do with caluurions. Stop using is as a scapegoat to justify this high TTK, overcharged healing and mitigation meta, please.