Disabled Player's Request: Please revert Templar jab animation AND art for the spear itself.

leofryth

Greetings,

When I recently returned to ESO for U35, I was disappointed that the Templar's jabs had changed. I do not much mind that they were nerfed, nor that the related passive (Burning Light) was also gutted. We had a good run with the jabs+passive being a bit overtuned, and now it's over. Okay. But the animation sequence itself, and the art of the spear, are two things which really need to go.

The animation: It's stiff and jerky, destroys my immersion in the game and forces me to see the mathematical rigidity of the animation coding. There is no "spirit," no illusion of living motion in those two mehcanical thrusts and the wooden lean. Also, there should be no reason why my character holds the spear near the head. (1) That's not how spears work. They stab from range, and are meant to keep enemies at bay. (2) Given the area of effect, 8x6, it would make more sense to have characters grip the spear more toward the bottom. This would give the illusion that the spear is actually stabbing through and around that target area.

The spear art: It doesn't look like a spear any more. Some have said it more resembles a fishing gaff, I say it resembles bad dime store pinups from artists who don't have the first clue about medieval weaponry. Spears are suppoed to poke and stab through things, which means they should be narrow. Very narrow and very sharp. The current art makes it seem like I am trying to stab with an oar or paddle rather than a spear. Remember: spears are not meant to slice or chop, so a comically large head is missing the point.

A simple fix would be to revert Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to the previous animation and art. Those maintained immersion and didn't break engagement with the game. If you wanted to maintain the three strikes of the current iteration, for the purpose of the new passive, maybe this is an alternate solution: keep the old animation, removing the fourth strike; and for the final strike, simply have the character pull back a little farther and thrust forward a little farther. No turn, no lean, just the appearance of greater effort in the arms (maybe a little in the waist and back).

I want to end this post with a little cherry on top. I am legally blind, having only about ten degrees of vision, and so I rely on a lot more than just visuals to play this game. I rely on sounds to time attacks, or to know when I can cast another spell or use another ability. The sounds of the old animation were smooth and fluid and constant (--woosh --woosh --woosh --woosh), so I knew by sound when I could click and do something else. Because I could count on the constancy of the old animation sounds, I could smoothly and comfortably engage combat. And let's face it, combat is about 90% of this game. This new sound (--woosh --woosh . . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . --woosh) destabilizes my play because it seems erratic and inconstant. Something seems aurally a little off every time. I know that one of the devs gave a published statement, "we get it, change is scary." But . . . seriously, when you change something on a blind person, or on an autistic person, or on someone with a kind of disorder that depends on constancy, it's not just scary. It's unnerving and unbalancing, and it fundamentally affects the way we move and "feel" our way around the world. As it pertains to this post, having an irregular audio clip ruins my interaction with the character, and therefore ruins my interaction with the game and its diegetic elements.

Carcamongus

nestyrian wrote: »

Greetings,

When I recently returned to ESO for U35, I was disappointed that the Templar's jabs had changed. I do not much mind that they were nerfed, nor that the related passive (Burning Light) was also gutted. We had a good run with the jabs+passive being a bit overtuned, and now it's over. Okay. But the animation sequence itself, and the art of the spear, are two things which really need to go.

The animation: It's stiff and jerky, destroys my immersion in the game and forces me to see the mathematical rigidity of the animation coding. There is no "spirit," no illusion of living motion in those two mehcanical thrusts and the wooden lean. Also, there should be no reason why my character holds the spear near the head. (1) That's not how spears work. They stab from range, and are meant to keep enemies at bay. (2) Given the area of effect, 8x6, it would make more sense to have characters grip the spear more toward the bottom. This would give the illusion that the spear is actually stabbing through and around that target area.

The spear art: It doesn't look like a spear any more. Some have said it more resembles a fishing gaff, I say it resembles bad dime store pinups from artists who don't have the first clue about medieval weaponry. Spears are suppoed to poke and stab through things, which means they should be narrow. Very narrow and very sharp. The current art makes it seem like I am trying to stab with an oar or paddle rather than a spear. Remember: spears are not meant to slice or chop, so a comically large head is missing the point.

A simple fix would be to revert Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to the previous animation and art. Those maintained immersion and didn't break engagement with the game. If you wanted to maintain the three strikes of the current iteration, for the purpose of the new passive, maybe this is an alternate solution: keep the old animation, removing the fourth strike; and for the final strike, simply have the character pull back a little farther and thrust forward a little farther. No turn, no lean, just the appearance of greater effort in the arms (maybe a little in the waist and back).

I want to end this post with a little cherry on top. I am legally blind, having only about ten degrees of vision, and so I rely on a lot more than just visuals to play this game. I rely on sounds to time attacks, or to know when I can cast another spell or use another ability. The sounds of the old animation were smooth and fluid and constant (--woosh --woosh --woosh --woosh), so I knew by sound when I could click and do something else. Because I could count on the constancy of the old animation sounds, I could smoothly and comfortably engage combat. And let's face it, combat is about 90% of this game. This new sound (--woosh --woosh . . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . --woosh) destabilizes my play because it seems erratic and inconstant. Something seems aurally a little off every time. I know that one of the devs gave a published statement, "we get it, change is scary." But . . . seriously, when you change something on a blind person, or on an autistic person, or on someone with a kind of disorder that depends on constancy, it's not just scary. It's unnerving and unbalancing, and it fundamentally affects the way we move and "feel" our way around the world. As it pertains to this post, having an irregular audio clip ruins my interaction with the character, and therefore ruins my interaction with the game and its diegetic elements.

I tried the jabs with a templar mule I hardly ever use and didn't think too much about them. But that's probably because I log on that character maybe once or twice a year for a few minutes at most. In any case, reading the OP has made me think and I can now understand templars' indignation. I play most of the time as a DK, so I'm used to the same years-old animations. If they were changed for no good reason into something poorly done, I'd be angry too. Imagine the lava whip looking like a string of sausages, for example!

I hope the devs pay attention to the uproar and revert this needless change.

Coming to think of it, though, the lava whip looking like a string of sausages would be hilarious.

FlipFlopFrog

It's something new, give it a bit of time and you will get used to the new one.

dmnqwk

As an autistic person, I don't want the old one back.

At 1 second channel time and 4 hits, plus the ridiculous imbalance of a single ability producing the same effort every other class has to use a full bar to do... that's unfair.

The animation as a 0.8 second channel is vastly superior and being 1 second means I will 100% believe people ONLY WANT IT BACK WHEN ITS OVERPOWERED. No other class has a perfect spammable that kills, heals and provides aoe like this - there's no way it's fair to bring back the original Jabs.

Making a case for the sound is 100% something I will support - keeping it consistent and not, say, 3 seconds then 6 seconds, would make sense. (oops, guess I got sidetracked hehe) But 100% DO NOT BRING BACK THE OVERPOWERED JABS because 1 button rotation defeats the point of fairness and beggars belief this game let it go on for so long.

My templar still uses Jabs because it's still 14k with a heal versus Rapid Strikes 13k or Bloodthirst 12k plus a heal or most classes sitting on 10-11k spammables (or Warden sitting on 9k plus some fancy under 1k/second bleed or the buff which defeats the purpose of it being a spammable).

carlos424

dmnqwk wrote: »

As an autistic person, I don't want the old one back.

At 1 second channel time and 4 hits, plus the ridiculous imbalance of a single ability producing the same effort every other class has to use a full bar to do... that's unfair.

The animation as a 0.8 second channel is vastly superior and being 1 second means I will 100% believe people ONLY WANT IT BACK WHEN ITS OVERPOWERED. No other class has a perfect spammable that kills, heals and provides aoe like this - there's no way it's fair to bring back the original Jabs.

Making a case for the sound is 100% something I will support - keeping it consistent and not, say, 3 seconds then 6 seconds, would make sense. (oops, guess I got sidetracked hehe) But 100% DO NOT BRING BACK THE OVERPOWERED JABS because 1 button rotation defeats the point of fairness and beggars belief this game let it go on for so long.

My templar still uses Jabs because it's still 14k with a heal versus Rapid Strikes 13k or Bloodthirst 12k plus a heal or most classes sitting on 10-11k spammables (or Warden sitting on 9k plus some fancy under 1k/second bleed or the buff which defeats the purpose of it being a spammable).

OP specifically said “I do not much mind that they were nerfed, nor that the related passive (Burning Light) was also gutted. We had a good run with the jabs+passive being a bit overtuned, and now it's over. Okay.”
He/she is not asking for the damage to be reverted, just the animation. I think zos was trying to make it easier for people to get visual cues for weaving jabs. But watching your character thrusting a flagpole is just unimmersive.

Kitziboo

I noticed that using jabs on an alt character soloing FG1 last week made me feel nauseous. I realised that it’s the odd movement to the right causing it so I will have to find new main skills for my Templars. I also dislike the new spear design which reminds me of a Pugil Stick and is very distracting.

That said, I wasn’t particularly keen on the old animation either as it went on slightly too long and left me jabbing over a dead body.

shadyjane62

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

It's something new, give it a bit of time and you will get used to the new one.

No. I have been a Templar for 8 years. What did you have to give up in update 35. Not bad enough that the abilities were gutted but to have a Vamp staff that looks likes I am using a shovel is too much. I am waiting out the end of a year sub doing a little pvp where the only way I can help my faction is to repair broken siege equipment and walls and make crafting alts to get survey maps. The only way I will have any future in the this game is if they revert the change.

That I paid for a year sub is the my biggest regret.

UnabashedlyHonest

There is a bigger picture here.

If ZOS will gut one class with multiple significant nerfs and unneeded and unwanted animation changes, they will do it to any class.

The extreme changes made to templar all in one update is the kind of thing that can and should effect the player bases' confidence in the competency and direction zos is taking ESO.

If it can happen to templars, it can happen to any class just as quickly and without warning.

I'll never understand why ZOS went with a Nighthollow stave as the new "spear" for templars. How did that change ever seem acceptable at the development level? A spear is a stamina based weapon. Staves are magic based weapons. ZOS decided to make the Nighthollow stave a stamina weapon on templars for some reason. Not only is the animation quirky and clunky, it's using an established magic based weapon as a stamina weapon now. (I know, there is a magic based morph of jabs too) Its such a wacky change to make that it's got a significant portion of the player base just asking "just exactly what is going on here?"

U35 caused me to cancel my sub that had been active since August 2014. That's how radically the changes in U35 shook my confidence in the company. That and there has been no mention of reversing or revisiting any of these very significant changes that essentially nobody is happy with.

UnabashedlyHonest

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

It's something new, give it a bit of time and you will get used to the new one.

Being forced to get used to something doesn't mean the change is acceptable or warranted. It's essentially being forced to take a 30% pay cut for doing the same job with all the same responsibilities. And having to endure a new goofy dress code at the same time.

Vulkunne

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

There is a bigger picture here.

If ZOS will gut one class with multiple significant nerfs and unneeded and unwanted animation changes, they will do it to any class.

The extreme changes made to templar all in one update is the kind of thing that can and should effect the player bases' confidence in the competency and direction zos is taking ESO.

If it can happen to templars, it can happen to any class just as quickly and without warning.

I'll never understand why ZOS went with a Nighthollow stave as the new "spear" for templars. How did that change ever seem acceptable at the development level? A spear is a stamina based weapon. Staves are magic based weapons. ZOS decided to make the Nighthollow stave a stamina weapon on templars for some reason. Not only is the animation quirky and clunky, it's using an established magic based weapon as a stamina weapon now. (I know, there is a magic based morph of jabs too) Its such a wacky change to make that it's got a significant portion of the player base just asking "just exactly what is going on here?"

U35 caused me to cancel my sub that had been active since August 2014. That's how radically the changes in U35 shook my confidence in the company. That and there has been no mention of reversing or revisiting any of these very significant changes that essentially nobody is happy with.

Couldn't agree more. Although I have not yet canceled my sub because I still have a few connections holding me to the game, however I agree with everything else said here and other similar posts.

No one cares about weaving its about changing something that was identifiable and iconic, one of the pillars that made the class, one of the things that was awesome and enjoyable even with its flaws and then making a harrible change that no one asked for when there was no real reason for doing it and it doesn't even work as well as before.

And then no answer lol. Silence my brother? Alright lol I guess we're not privileged to know why they do things like this. Someone did the black sacrament on jabs and flurry I guess. But I wouldn't know anything about that so uh... anyways.

leofryth

"The animation as a 0.8 second channel is vastly superior and being 1 second means I will 100% believe people ONLY WANT IT BACK WHEN ITS OVERPOWERED. No other class has a perfect spammable that kills, heals and provides aoe like this - there's no way it's fair to bring back the original Jabs."

With respect, I am not addressing the maths of the game at all. I am addressing the immersive aesthetic and the functional/experiential aspect of the animation's sound. (Thank you for supporting my point about the sound, btw.) And as someone else pointed out, I'm not complaining about the nerfs. In fact, I agreed that the original Puncturing Sweep was a bit overtuned.

But there may be a slight error with your assertion that no other class has what the templar does. For example:

-- Dragonknight has inhale (AOE, heals, and kills, can be spammed)
-- Sorceror has Clannfear (AOE, heals, and kills, spams itself for the most part)
-- Nightblade has Soul Tether and Sap Essence (both AOE, heal, and kill, seems they can be spammed)
-- Warden has Scorch and morphs (combined with Bond with Nature, AOE, heals, kills faster than jabs, cast on cooldown) and Arctic Blast (AOE, heals, and kills, cast on cooldown)
-- Necromancer has Death Scythe and morphs (AOE, heals, and kills, can be spammed) and Avid Boneyard (AOE, heals, and kills, cast on cooldown)

Do they all have the same mechanic as Puncturing Sweep? No, of course not. If they did, that would ruin the unique flavor of each class. But the functionality is the same. The developers, to me, do seem to put effort into making all classes approximate some the same basic features. It's one way of balancing the game.

peacenote

carlos424 wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

As an autistic person, I don't want the old one back.

At 1 second channel time and 4 hits, plus the ridiculous imbalance of a single ability producing the same effort every other class has to use a full bar to do... that's unfair.

The animation as a 0.8 second channel is vastly superior and being 1 second means I will 100% believe people ONLY WANT IT BACK WHEN ITS OVERPOWERED. No other class has a perfect spammable that kills, heals and provides aoe like this - there's no way it's fair to bring back the original Jabs.

Making a case for the sound is 100% something I will support - keeping it consistent and not, say, 3 seconds then 6 seconds, would make sense. (oops, guess I got sidetracked hehe) But 100% DO NOT BRING BACK THE OVERPOWERED JABS because 1 button rotation defeats the point of fairness and beggars belief this game let it go on for so long.

My templar still uses Jabs because it's still 14k with a heal versus Rapid Strikes 13k or Bloodthirst 12k plus a heal or most classes sitting on 10-11k spammables (or Warden sitting on 9k plus some fancy under 1k/second bleed or the buff which defeats the purpose of it being a spammable).

OP specifically said “I do not much mind that they were nerfed, nor that the related passive (Burning Light) was also gutted. We had a good run with the jabs+passive being a bit overtuned, and now it's over. Okay.”
He/she is not asking for the damage to be reverted, just the animation. I think zos was trying to make it easier for people to get visual cues for weaving jabs. But watching your character thrusting a flagpole is just unimmersive.

Yes. Some people might be upset about the damage nerf. But not everyone... it's most definitely "100%." I'm a healer main, and it had gotten to the point where my supporting damage often didn't mean much. I haven't reconfigured my templar yet and honestly my damage, as a healer, seems the same. I miss the old animation. It FEELS wrong. For me it isn't at all about anything being OP or not. And I haven't quit, so I have been playing my usual 2 - 3 times a week since U35 dropped... and I'm not used to it. Still don't like the change.

kargen27

I like the new animation. When a trial group is stacked I can see the animation much better than before. Took a while to get used to it doing solo stuff but I went out and did several world bosses and I'm good now. Needed to get used to a new rotation also. Still working a bit on that rotation though.

I'm guessing (just a guess) if this animation had been around for years and then they switched it to what is now the old animation we would see much the same uproar. Adjusting to change is almost always uncomfortable but usually doesn't take long.

peacenote

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation. When a trial group is stacked I can see the animation much better than before. Took a while to get used to it doing solo stuff but I went out and did several world bosses and I'm good now. Needed to get used to a new rotation also. Still working a bit on that rotation though.

I'm guessing (just a guess) if this animation had been around for years and then they switched it to what is now the old animation we would see much the same uproar. Adjusting to change is almost always uncomfortable but usually doesn't take long.

https://www.coca-colacompany.com/company/history/the-story-of-one-of-the-most-memorable-marketing-blunders-ever

There are probably people who liked the new Coke formula better when it came out. Doesn't change the fact that many people liked the old formula better.

Jaraal

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

There is a bigger picture here.

If ZOS will gut one class with multiple significant nerfs and unneeded and unwanted animation changes, they will do it to any class.

The extreme changes made to templar all in one update is the kind of thing that can and should effect the player bases' confidence in the competency and direction zos is taking ESO.

If it can happen to templars, it can happen to any class just as quickly and without warning.

I'll never understand why ZOS went with a Nighthollow stave as the new "spear" for templars. How did that change ever seem acceptable at the development level? A spear is a stamina based weapon. Staves are magic based weapons. ZOS decided to make the Nighthollow stave a stamina weapon on templars for some reason. Not only is the animation quirky and clunky, it's using an established magic based weapon as a stamina weapon now. (I know, there is a magic based morph of jabs too) Its such a wacky change to make that it's got a significant portion of the player base just asking "just exactly what is going on here?"

I always figured they used the vampiric staff because it looks like a shovel, and the last action of the new animation looks like the templar is digging (or unearthing?) a grave. It would fit with the undead lore of the motif.

Jaraal

nestyrian wrote: »

The animation: It's stiff and jerky, destroys my immersion in the game and forces me to see the mathematical rigidity of the animation coding. There is no "spirit," no illusion of living motion in those two mehcanical thrusts and the wooden lean. Also, there should be no reason why my character holds the spear near the head. (1) That's not how spears work. They stab from range, and are meant to keep enemies at bay. (2) Given the area of effect, 8x6, it would make more sense to have characters grip the spear more toward the bottom. This would give the illusion that the spear is actually stabbing through and around that target area.

To be fair, if I had to go into battle with only a stick that was pointed on one end, I would be holding it in the middle and using it like a bo staff. I would be blocking and countering attacks, striking with the blunt end, and stabbing with the other end in the flow of battle.

I have a feeling that foot soldiers who only went pokey pokey with it wouldn’t last long on the battlefield.

kargen27

peacenote wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation. When a trial group is stacked I can see the animation much better than before. Took a while to get used to it doing solo stuff but I went out and did several world bosses and I'm good now. Needed to get used to a new rotation also. Still working a bit on that rotation though.

I'm guessing (just a guess) if this animation had been around for years and then they switched it to what is now the old animation we would see much the same uproar. Adjusting to change is almost always uncomfortable but usually doesn't take long.

https://www.coca-colacompany.com/company/history/the-story-of-one-of-the-most-memorable-marketing-blunders-ever

There are probably people who liked the new Coke formula better when it came out. Doesn't change the fact that many people liked the old formula better.

and how do you think they would have reacted if the New Coke had been the original and was replaced? They wouldn't like it because it was/is different. Most would get used to the new flavor fairly quick and then would be reluctant to go back.

SaffronCitrusflower

kargen27 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation. When a trial group is stacked I can see the animation much better than before. Took a while to get used to it doing solo stuff but I went out and did several world bosses and I'm good now. Needed to get used to a new rotation also. Still working a bit on that rotation though.

I'm guessing (just a guess) if this animation had been around for years and then they switched it to what is now the old animation we would see much the same uproar. Adjusting to change is almost always uncomfortable but usually doesn't take long.

https://www.coca-colacompany.com/company/history/the-story-of-one-of-the-most-memorable-marketing-blunders-ever

There are probably people who liked the new Coke formula better when it came out. Doesn't change the fact that many people liked the old formula better.

and how do you think they would have reacted if the New Coke had been the original and was replaced? They wouldn't like it because it was/is different. Most would get used to the new flavor fairly quick and then would be reluctant to go back.

Or they'd switch to one of the other cola brands, like Pepsi or RC or maybe even just switch to water and quit the roller coaster all together.

leofryth

"To be fair, if I had to go into battle with only a stick that was pointed on one end, I would be holding it in the middle and using it like a bo staff. I would be blocking and countering attacks, striking with the blunt end, and stabbing with the other end in the flow of battle.

I have a feeling that foot soldiers who only went pokey pokey with it wouldn’t last long on the battlefield."


Except that a spear is not a bo staff, and was not used in combat like we see in a lot of movies today. Often we see films mimic Eastern martial arts with a spear because, well, it looks cool. On a real battlefield, in real combat, that's not how it works. The phalanx, for example, was a premiere battle strategy for centuries and relied on using the spear as intended: by thrusting and stabbing. Sort of like with a rapier. You don't slice or chop with a rapier like we see actors do in the movies, it's a thrusting weapon meant to pierce through armor or similar protection.

leofryth

Or they'd switch to one of the other cola brands, like Pepsi or RC or maybe even just switch to water and quit the roller coaster all together.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it sounds like you are saying that if we do not enjoy the new class animations we should simply choose a new class to play, or stop playing altogether. There are some problems with this kind of thinking.

Firstly, I highly doubt ZoS wants to lose paying customers (I am a subber), but instead would like to keep current customers as well as attract more. Listening to and responding to customer feedback is a good way to keep a business running. If food tastes really bad and keeps getting sent back, changes are made to the recipe so that sales can continue and grow. Coca-Cola is our chosen example, but is not the only product. Butterfinger is a good recent example, and back in the 2000's Capri Sun changed their recipe for similar concerns. In the gaming sphere Final Fantasy XIV completely shut down and rebooted itself to make their game better and let their players have a more enjoyable experience. (Look where they are now, because they do listen to customers.) If ZoS listened to the massive negative feedback from the Templar community and reverted the jab art, I am pretty sure they would earn some positive creds and keep paying customers. (Also, ZoS has demonstrated in the past that they do in fact listen to customer feedback. I am hoping they will do so in this situation as well.)

Another problem with your analogy is that, as the Coca-Cola article points out, changing to a new class or leaving ESO altogether doesn't account for the bond players have with their current characters - bonds they don't want "tampered" with. The suggestion implies players specifically SHOULDN'T bond with a class, that they should be willing to drop characters (many of which reflect hundreds of invested hours) at a moment's notice and think nothing of it. But ZoS specifically does want us to bond with characters. (Look at their Crown Store model and policies.) And it's also true that we create personal narratives with these characters, whether we realize it or not.

In the end, telling players to essentially "get lost" if they don't like animation changes, or changes in gameplay mechanics, is dismissive and disrespectful toward people who provide the company with money. Look at what happened to World of Warcraft with Shadowlands. Putting aside for a moment the legal and social concerns - which are extensive - Blizzard still had a serious problem in that they DID effectively tell players to get lost . . . and players did. Now their game is effectively dead, and the company is struggling to recover.

More than that, though, telling players to get lost because they want to keep a long-standing and iconic animation is dismissive and disrespectful of the game itself, and the game environment that players have come to enjoy and support for several years now. Call me naive, but I'm really hopeful that ZoS does have respect and care for its own product.

stevenyaub16_ESO

I dunno why people keep wanting an animation that is 30% longer than the actual skill duration.

robwolf666

Said it before, I'll say it again, I like the new the new animations. The spear actually looks like a spear now, and replacing the stabby nightblade animation makes more sense too, esp. if you're using a mace for example.

As for the game becoming a bit more difficult, good, levelling from 1-50 had become waaaay to easy, now you have to work a bit harder for your gold.

Paulytnz

To me it looks messy because it seems to start halfway through a jab already. My guess is the 4 swings are still there but the very first one is the one that starts it off halfway though, so it appears to be only 3 total now. All in all it looks sloppy to me.....

I also liked the original because for me this was as close as we could get to an auto attack, kiss goodbye to that... Oh well good thing I don't play this game for the combat and sorry to say OP, but combat is not 90% of my game here lol, more like 40%.

Captain_Devildog

Please zos revert the animation!

Ragnarok0130

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

I dunno why people keep wanting an animation that is 30% longer than the actual skill duration.

Because it was an overall better animation visually and lore wise. It's also been there since Beta with no good reason to change it after 8...yes 8 years and it was the iconic skill of the entire Templar class. ZoS could simply adjust the timing of the old animation instead of *waves at everything* this...

SaffronCitrusflower

nestyrian wrote: »

Or they'd switch to one of the other cola brands, like Pepsi or RC or maybe even just switch to water and quit the roller coaster all together.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it sounds like you are saying that if we do not enjoy the new class animations we should simply choose a new class to play, or stop playing altogether. There are some problems with this kind of thinking.

Firstly, I highly doubt ZoS wants to lose paying customers (I am a subber), but instead would like to keep current customers as well as attract more. Listening to and responding to customer feedback is a good way to keep a business running. If food tastes really bad and keeps getting sent back, changes are made to the recipe so that sales can continue and grow. Coca-Cola is our chosen example, but is not the only product. Butterfinger is a good recent example, and back in the 2000's Capri Sun changed their recipe for similar concerns. In the gaming sphere Final Fantasy XIV completely shut down and rebooted itself to make their game better and let their players have a more enjoyable experience. (Look where they are now, because they do listen to customers.) If ZoS listened to the massive negative feedback from the Templar community and reverted the jab art, I am pretty sure they would earn some positive creds and keep paying customers. (Also, ZoS has demonstrated in the past that they do in fact listen to customer feedback. I am hoping they will do so in this situation as well.)

Another problem with your analogy is that, as the Coca-Cola article points out, changing to a new class or leaving ESO altogether doesn't account for the bond players have with their current characters - bonds they don't want "tampered" with. The suggestion implies players specifically SHOULDN'T bond with a class, that they should be willing to drop characters (many of which reflect hundreds of invested hours) at a moment's notice and think nothing of it. But ZoS specifically does want us to bond with characters. (Look at their Crown Store model and policies.) And it's also true that we create personal narratives with these characters, whether we realize it or not.

In the end, telling players to essentially "get lost" if they don't like animation changes, or changes in gameplay mechanics, is dismissive and disrespectful toward people who provide the company with money. Look at what happened to World of Warcraft with Shadowlands. Putting aside for a moment the legal and social concerns - which are extensive - Blizzard still had a serious problem in that they DID effectively tell players to get lost . . . and players did. Now their game is effectively dead, and the company is struggling to recover.

More than that, though, telling players to get lost because they want to keep a long-standing and iconic animation is dismissive and disrespectful of the game itself, and the game environment that players have come to enjoy and support for several years now. Call me naive, but I'm really hopeful that ZoS does have respect and care for its own product.

I'm not saying take it or leave it if you don't like the new animation. ZOS is. I hate the new animation.

FlipFlopFrog

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The only way I will have any future in the this game is if they revert the change.

[snip]

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Being forced to get used to something doesn't mean the change is acceptable or warranted. It's essentially being forced to take a 30% pay cut for doing the same job with all the same responsibilities. And having to endure a new goofy dress code at the same time.

Yeah, that's EXACTLY the same thing as Zos updating an animation in their game. Totally the same.

[snip]

I hope in the future they update more ability animations. There's a few which look rather tired and could use an update.

[edited for baiting]

peacenote

kargen27 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation. When a trial group is stacked I can see the animation much better than before. Took a while to get used to it doing solo stuff but I went out and did several world bosses and I'm good now. Needed to get used to a new rotation also. Still working a bit on that rotation though.

I'm guessing (just a guess) if this animation had been around for years and then they switched it to what is now the old animation we would see much the same uproar. Adjusting to change is almost always uncomfortable but usually doesn't take long.

https://www.coca-colacompany.com/company/history/the-story-of-one-of-the-most-memorable-marketing-blunders-ever

There are probably people who liked the new Coke formula better when it came out. Doesn't change the fact that many people liked the old formula better.

and how do you think they would have reacted if the New Coke had been the original and was replaced? They wouldn't like it because it was/is different. Most would get used to the new flavor fairly quick and then would be reluctant to go back.

You're assuming that "New Coke" would have reached as broad of an appeal as classic Coke did. And that's flawed, because if that's true, we really couldn't even explain why Coke did better than, say, RC Cola. So your premise is basically that people's favorite everything is the first thing they try, and they object when those things are changed.

I respectfully disagree. People all have different preferences but there's a reason "favorites" rise to the top. People often try things and reject them, as opposed to those things becoming something they favor.

I don't at all question that some people might get used to the animation change for templar, and that some might immediately or over time like it better. I just think it's problematic to take the stance that MOST people are upset simply because a change occurred, as opposed to considering the possibility that the people who are unhappy actively liked the old animation for reasons beyond familiarity amd/or blind stubborn resistance to any change.

I think it's possible that many folks might never have become loyal to templars if the animation had started out as it is now!

We will never know, of course. But replacing something without having data on why customers value current state is a good way to tank a project, or divide a playerbase. I believe that often people have good reasons why they like something (such as the OP) which go beyond "well, I'm used to it." True improvements would have the majority of impacted people exhibit excitement with the minority pointing out flaws or simply resistant to change. For example, good luck finding someone who would be outraged if we finally got the furniture housing cap raised, or if Cyrodiil lag was eliminated for all... those would be changes, but no one would be uncomfortable with them.

kargen27

"So your premise is basically that people's favorite everything is the first thing they try, and they object when those things are changed."
No that isn't my premise at all. My premise is once we get used to something we are reluctant to change. That is why companies entice new customers with great deals that last six months but offer nothing much special to existing customers.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I really dont care what they do with the animation as long as the .8 second stays. It is vastly and objectively superior. I would think that someone with disabilities would prefer consistency in skill timers, and this does that, but I am sure I dont speak for everyone.

I will concede that if you are a player that completely relied on Jabs to do the heavy lifting and just want a one button build, yeah its worse for you now. If you want to be able to actually blend it into a proper rotation, its far better.