U36 Warden Adjustments and Discussion

wuuzzum

Mr_Stach wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

TheTuSiK wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

Thanks for explaining it to me, Nightingale, I really appreciate it.

I was concerned because my current MagWarden build relies on magic damage skills (deep fissure, screaming cliff racer, fetcher infection), and I benefit from 1) +10% magic damage (Piercing Cold), 2) +10% single target damage (Inferno Staff passive), and 3) War Maiden set (+600 magic damage), and also 4) +12% heavy attack damage (Inferno Staff Passive).

So I will lose 10% single target damage (screaming cr, fetcher flies) as well as the 12% heavy attack damage from the Inferno Staff Passive, because I will have to use a Frost Staff to keep +10% (all damage) that I previously got from Piercing Cold.

I guess I will still lose that 10% single target bonus, won't I?

It's really hard for me to imagine enjoying pvp with less damage as a MagWarden, as I struggle to get kills due to no execute and lack of burst pressure (deep fissure feels gutted at 9 seconds and less damage -- and it was pretty hard to line up consistently against good players to begin with).

My record in BGs usually looks something like: 2-2-19. I enjoy the strategy components of the different bg games, but having almost all duels/combat end in a prolonged stalemate gets old.

Thanks again for your helpful explanations.

The new Piercing Cold is +10% Damage Done, not +10% Ice and Magicka Damage. Overall damage boost means that with Ice Staff you loose some damage like ST from Inferno but you'll gain 10% everywhere else so it kinda negates that loss.

So all I does really for a magden with War Maidens is lock them into Frost Staff, that’s garbage

It's definitely not something we want to lock people into. But there's definitely better picks out there than warmaiden anyway.

I guess I’m more of a proponent of just leave it be. I’ve always liked selecting an element, be it sun, swamp raider, etc, and building a build around it. Warden has always been Magic and ice, and I feel like this whole update screws the magic for the sake of making the Frost more relevant

the DK treatment

They’ve been throwing love towards DKs and NBs, and beating up on the Warden? Seems backwards!

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

TheTuSiK wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

Thanks for explaining it to me, Nightingale, I really appreciate it.

I was concerned because my current MagWarden build relies on magic damage skills (deep fissure, screaming cliff racer, fetcher infection), and I benefit from 1) +10% magic damage (Piercing Cold), 2) +10% single target damage (Inferno Staff passive), and 3) War Maiden set (+600 magic damage), and also 4) +12% heavy attack damage (Inferno Staff Passive).

So I will lose 10% single target damage (screaming cr, fetcher flies) as well as the 12% heavy attack damage from the Inferno Staff Passive, because I will have to use a Frost Staff to keep +10% (all damage) that I previously got from Piercing Cold.

I guess I will still lose that 10% single target bonus, won't I?

It's really hard for me to imagine enjoying pvp with less damage as a MagWarden, as I struggle to get kills due to no execute and lack of burst pressure (deep fissure feels gutted at 9 seconds and less damage -- and it was pretty hard to line up consistently against good players to begin with).

My record in BGs usually looks something like: 2-2-19. I enjoy the strategy components of the different bg games, but having almost all duels/combat end in a prolonged stalemate gets old.

Thanks again for your helpful explanations.

The new Piercing Cold is +10% Damage Done, not +10% Ice and Magicka Damage. Overall damage boost means that with Ice Staff you loose some damage like ST from Inferno but you'll gain 10% everywhere else so it kinda negates that loss.

So all I does really for a magden with War Maidens is lock them into Frost Staff, that’s garbage

It's definitely not something we want to lock people into. But there's definitely better picks out there than warmaiden anyway.

I guess I’m more of a proponent of just leave it be. I’ve always liked selecting an element, be it sun, swamp raider, etc, and building a build around it. Warden has always been Magic and ice, and I feel like this whole update screws the magic for the sake of making the Frost more relevant

But here's the thing with that thought process, it doesn't even make Frost Setups more relevant, you are just forced to use Frost Staff. This change doesn't make anything better and using Frost Staff doesn't even out perform on Warden compared to other setups.

If Zos wanted to make Frost Warden better, they would need to address the Warden Class and the Destro Staff separately. Destro heavily favors fire damage, Lightning and Frost are worse in every regard, that needs to be fixed inside of Destro, not inside class passives.

Then we come to Warden, Zos seems to want to do literally anything instead of giving Wardens and Sorcs the DK treatment, Unification of Damage types and Passive Synergies to make the class thrive in their Element. I feel like Zos changed Piercing Cold in this way just to spite the Frost Warden Community.

yeah, the current state of the frost staff isn't paticularly great. tri focus's design still actively hurts you in a lot of cases which isn't what any other passive even does.

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

TheTuSiK wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

Thanks for explaining it to me, Nightingale, I really appreciate it.

I was concerned because my current MagWarden build relies on magic damage skills (deep fissure, screaming cliff racer, fetcher infection), and I benefit from 1) +10% magic damage (Piercing Cold), 2) +10% single target damage (Inferno Staff passive), and 3) War Maiden set (+600 magic damage), and also 4) +12% heavy attack damage (Inferno Staff Passive).

So I will lose 10% single target damage (screaming cr, fetcher flies) as well as the 12% heavy attack damage from the Inferno Staff Passive, because I will have to use a Frost Staff to keep +10% (all damage) that I previously got from Piercing Cold.

I guess I will still lose that 10% single target bonus, won't I?

It's really hard for me to imagine enjoying pvp with less damage as a MagWarden, as I struggle to get kills due to no execute and lack of burst pressure (deep fissure feels gutted at 9 seconds and less damage -- and it was pretty hard to line up consistently against good players to begin with).

My record in BGs usually looks something like: 2-2-19. I enjoy the strategy components of the different bg games, but having almost all duels/combat end in a prolonged stalemate gets old.

Thanks again for your helpful explanations.

The new Piercing Cold is +10% Damage Done, not +10% Ice and Magicka Damage. Overall damage boost means that with Ice Staff you loose some damage like ST from Inferno but you'll gain 10% everywhere else so it kinda negates that loss.

So all I does really for a magden with War Maidens is lock them into Frost Staff, that’s garbage

It's definitely not something we want to lock people into. But there's definitely better picks out there than warmaiden anyway.

I guess I’m more of a proponent of just leave it be. I’ve always liked selecting an element, be it sun, swamp raider, etc, and building a build around it. Warden has always been Magic and ice, and I feel like this whole update screws the magic for the sake of making the Frost more relevant

But here's the thing with that thought process, it doesn't even make Frost Setups more relevant, you are just forced to use Frost Staff. This change doesn't make anything better and using Frost Staff doesn't even out perform on Warden compared to other setups.

If Zos wanted to make Frost Warden better, they would need to address the Warden Class and the Destro Staff separately. Destro heavily favors fire damage, Lightning and Frost are worse in every regard, that needs to be fixed inside of Destro, not inside class passives.

Then we come to Warden, Zos seems to want to do literally anything instead of giving Wardens and Sorcs the DK treatment, Unification of Damage types and Passive Synergies to make the class thrive in their Element. I feel like Zos changed Piercing Cold in this way just to spite the Frost Warden Community.

yeah, the current state of the frost staff isn't paticularly great. tri focus's design still actively hurts you in a lot of cases which isn't what any other passive even does.

The issue is that the only real fixes for Warden or Destro as a whole will take a lot more Effort and time than I think Zos wants to put into it.

LeHarrt91

Taking away the frost staff requirement is needed, I understand the sentiment but its impractical. Increasing the all Damage Done to 6% and in addition also doing 6% Frost Damage would be nice since frost damage skills are lacking at the moment. Its hard to balance these things since you don't want to add to much damage to passives or skills to where it makes one specific spec far outperform any other.

The idea about Winters Revenge increasing frost damage taken is nice, but maybe tying that to chilled effect would be cool. Add it to Icy Aura with the snare reduction since that passives is lackluster at the moment. So Chilling an enemy makes them take 6% more frost damage.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Taking away the frost staff requirement is needed, I understand the sentiment but its impractical. Increasing the all Damage Done to 6% and in addition also doing 6% Frost Damage would be nice since frost damage skills are lacking at the moment. Its hard to balance these things since you don't want to add to much damage to passives or skills to where it makes one specific spec far outperform any other.

The idea about Winters Revenge increasing frost damage taken is nice, but maybe tying that to chilled effect would be cool. Add it to Icy Aura with the snare reduction since that passives is lackluster at the moment. So Chilling an enemy makes them take 6% more frost damage.

yeah, i'd say either that, or something is done about engulfing flames on dk. though i don't think it's as important as making chilled hit really hard in some form though.

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Taking away the frost staff requirement is needed, I understand the sentiment but its impractical. Increasing the all Damage Done to 6% and in addition also doing 6% Frost Damage would be nice since frost damage skills are lacking at the moment. Its hard to balance these things since you don't want to add to much damage to passives or skills to where it makes one specific spec far outperform any other.

The idea about Winters Revenge increasing frost damage taken is nice, but maybe tying that to chilled effect would be cool. Add it to Icy Aura with the snare reduction since that passives is lackluster at the moment. So Chilling an enemy makes them take 6% more frost damage.

yeah, i'd say either that, or something is done about engulfing flames on dk. though i don't think it's as important as making chilled hit really hard in some form though.

Yeah increasing the damage of the Chilled Status Effect would be nice, and adding it to Icy Aura seems to fit the passive name.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Taking away the frost staff requirement is needed, I understand the sentiment but its impractical. Increasing the all Damage Done to 6% and in addition also doing 6% Frost Damage would be nice since frost damage skills are lacking at the moment. Its hard to balance these things since you don't want to add to much damage to passives or skills to where it makes one specific spec far outperform any other.

The idea about Winters Revenge increasing frost damage taken is nice, but maybe tying that to chilled effect would be cool. Add it to Icy Aura with the snare reduction since that passives is lackluster at the moment. So Chilling an enemy makes them take 6% more frost damage.

yeah, i'd say either that, or something is done about engulfing flames on dk. though i don't think it's as important as making chilled hit really hard in some form though.

Yeah increasing the damage of the Chilled Status Effect would be nice, and adding it to Icy Aura seems to fit the passive name.

I think if the bonus was done like this, it would hopefully have the effect of not pushing frost dps past builds that really choose to go into it. this would also healthily bring up northern storm, as northern storm would have the 50% increased chilled damage effect for 30 seconds due to the increased weapon/spell damage passive effect it provides. that's not to say it would be better than bear, but if it's able to close the gap somewhat, that's going to be great especially for aoe encounters.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

wuuzzum wrote: »

TheTuSiK wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

Thanks for explaining it to me, Nightingale, I really appreciate it.

I was concerned because my current MagWarden build relies on magic damage skills (deep fissure, screaming cliff racer, fetcher infection), and I benefit from 1) +10% magic damage (Piercing Cold), 2) +10% single target damage (Inferno Staff passive), and 3) War Maiden set (+600 magic damage), and also 4) +12% heavy attack damage (Inferno Staff Passive).

So I will lose 10% single target damage (screaming cr, fetcher flies) as well as the 12% heavy attack damage from the Inferno Staff Passive, because I will have to use a Frost Staff to keep +10% (all damage) that I previously got from Piercing Cold.

I guess I will still lose that 10% single target bonus, won't I?

It's really hard for me to imagine enjoying pvp with less damage as a MagWarden, as I struggle to get kills due to no execute and lack of burst pressure (deep fissure feels gutted at 9 seconds and less damage -- and it was pretty hard to line up consistently against good players to begin with).

My record in BGs usually looks something like: 2-2-19. I enjoy the strategy components of the different bg games, but having almost all duels/combat end in a prolonged stalemate gets old.

Thanks again for your helpful explanations.

The new Piercing Cold is +10% Damage Done, not +10% Ice and Magicka Damage. Overall damage boost means that with Ice Staff you loose some damage like ST from Inferno but you'll gain 10% everywhere else so it kinda negates that loss.

So all I does really for a magden with War Maidens is lock them into Frost Staff, that’s garbage

It's definitely not something we want to lock people into. But there's definitely better picks out there than warmaiden anyway.

I guess I’m more of a proponent of just leave it be. I’ve always liked selecting an element, be it sun, swamp raider, etc, and building a build around it. Warden has always been Magic and ice, and I feel like this whole update screws the magic for the sake of making the Frost more relevant

But here's the thing with that thought process, it doesn't even make Frost Setups more relevant, you are just forced to use Frost Staff. This change doesn't make anything better and using Frost Staff doesn't even out perform on Warden compared to other setups.

If Zos wanted to make Frost Warden better, they would need to address the Warden Class and the Destro Staff separately. Destro heavily favors fire damage, Lightning and Frost are worse in every regard, that needs to be fixed inside of Destro, not inside class passives.

Then we come to Warden, Zos seems to want to do literally anything instead of giving Wardens and Sorcs the DK treatment, Unification of Damage types and Passive Synergies to make the class thrive in their Element. I feel like Zos changed Piercing Cold in this way just to spite the Frost Warden Community.

yeah, the current state of the frost staff isn't paticularly great. tri focus's design still actively hurts you in a lot of cases which isn't what any other passive even does.

The issue is that the only real fixes for Warden or Destro as a whole will take a lot more Effort and time than I think Zos wants to put into it.

If they want a quick way out, increasing chilled damage through a passive or item set is one of the fastest ways i know of.

Azyle1

So is it safe to say Stam Warden is still pretty mediocre in PVE?

Nser

Some people idont know how they think.. zos just now destroyed all magicka warden build with this change of piercing Cold passive change .. tyed ice staff with the class .. what a stupid idea ..

I been always using mele magicka warden now this change effected everyone using mele magicka warden build.

Why u dont think of others before do this changes..

I suggest to reverse piercing cold passive to % done done or penetration
Its need to effected all of builds not just specific play style

This chnage is nerf to warden not buff IT IS HUG NERF TO WARDEN CLASS

veznan5

Sadly it the latest patch notes don't address these problems, which might be a sign that these changes will end up going through

Mr_Stach

veznan5 wrote: »

Sadly it the latest patch notes don't address these problems, which might be a sign that these changes will end up going through

Well week 2 is always just bug fixes. Next week is the one to look to

MashmalloMan

Azyle1 wrote: »

So is it safe to say Stam Warden is still pretty mediocre in PVE?

Worse because crit damage is next to useless for pve stam wardens. They just shifted the issue from 1 side of the coin to the other.. but hey, you lose 8% dmg to Winter's Revenge, Deep Fissure and Fletcher Flies for 2% to everything else.........

...

Unless you hold a Frost Staff

ESO_Nightingale

I wish that instead of fixing that tri focus bug, they just deleted the bonus instead so instead of harming most builds, the passive was actually takeable.

LeHarrt91

Nser wrote: »

Some people idont know how they think.. zos just now destroyed all magicka warden build with this change of piercing Cold passive change .. tyed ice staff with the class .. what a stupid idea ..

I been always using mele magicka warden now this change effected everyone using mele magicka warden build.

Why u dont think of others before do this changes..

I suggest to reverse piercing cold passive to % done done or penetration
Its need to effected all of builds not just specific play style

This chnage is nerf to warden not buff IT IS HUG NERF TO WARDEN CLASS

Melee builds will still get 2% damage done from the passive and because Dual Wield and Two Hand passives and stats are better, you will still pull ahead of a warden with a frost staff.
Yes its a odd change, and shouldn't have the weapon specific requirement but it wont force you to equip a Frost Staff.

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I wish that instead of fixing that tri focus bug, they just deleted the bonus instead so instead of harming most builds, the passive was actually takeable.

or moving the Ancient knowledge passive for Frost to Tri-Focus and then giving frost a DPS passive to AK.

Klingenlied

Warden sometimes did parse rather well. Warden never managed to realize his parse DPS in content. Now Warden doesn't parse well. Warden performs even worse in content.

And we just talk about some nice new ideas here to maybe be added in game? Sometimes I don't get the community

What is wrong now is numbers being off. We do know what numbers they are working on. So I guess that is where the adjustments need be made. Not something where the whole process of rebalancing something needs to start anew to maybe give another unwanted final result a year after.

So to "safe" Warden from extinction as DPS in U36, increase the 2% overall and 10% with frost staff damage boost to 8% overall and 16% with frost staff. That would result in a buff to Magden and likely be rather neutral to Stamden as where I'd assume that Magden is going to slightly out-dps stamden when we do not revert crit damage to flat damage as well. If we convert crit to flat damage, Magden & Stamden will perform like now - just better with more incentive to use frost staff.

Though I don't believe Warden would already catch up to the top dps classes, we would get closer to it and ZOS would have time to fix Warden / improve on the class for next DLC.

ESO_Nightingale

Klingenlied wrote: »

Warden sometimes did parse rather well. Warden never managed to realize his parse DPS in content. Now Warden doesn't parse well. Warden performs even worse in content.

And we just talk about some nice new ideas here to maybe be added in game? Sometimes I don't get the community

What is wrong now is numbers being off. We do know what numbers they are working on. So I guess that is where the adjustments need be made. Not something where the whole process of rebalancing something needs to start anew to maybe give another unwanted final result a year after.

So to "safe" Warden from extinction as DPS in U36, increase the 2% overall and 10% with frost staff damage boost to 8% overall and 16% with frost staff. That would result in a buff to Magden and likely be rather neutral to Stamden as where I'd assume that Magden is going to slightly out-dps stamden when we do not revert crit damage to flat damage as well. If we convert crit to flat damage, Magden & Stamden will perform like now - just better with more incentive to use frost staff.

Though I don't believe Warden would already catch up to the top dps classes, we would get closer to it and ZOS would have time to fix Warden / improve on the class for next DLC.

if they wanted us to match with the rest of the pack, they could add back our lost passive damage in some form (which is what we're trying to get them to do right now), and to add back damage that was undeservedly taken from scorch, and winter's revenge.

Mr_Stach

I think that this patch is way too soon for Zos to be doing any passive updates for Warden or class changes in general. Last pts was a disaster and if I were on the Balance team I would take a step back and reevaluate each class based on feedback and data provided.

This patch should have just been content and bug fixes, then maybe after the next patch present a new vision for each class based on pain points and feedback.

Zos can't just move on to the next balance pass when the last one damaged balance so badly and think that it'll go smoothly. The Trust Fund is completely empty for many players, zos needs to start listening to get any of that trust back

dmnqwk

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I wish that instead of fixing that tri focus bug, they just deleted the bonus instead so instead of harming most builds, the passive was actually takeable.

This is deplorably selfish.

I main a Warden as a tank and spend more time blocking on magicka than I do on Stamina - Equilibrium for magicka makes things much easier and frees up stamina for gripping/taunting mobs.

I 100% hope they focus on fixing the tri-focus bug and ignore every request to remove it and ruin what makes Warden tanks so good.

ESO_Nightingale

dmnqwk wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I wish that instead of fixing that tri focus bug, they just deleted the bonus instead so instead of harming most builds, the passive was actually takeable.

This is deplorably selfish.

I main a Warden as a tank and spend more time blocking on magicka than I do on Stamina - Equilibrium for magicka makes things much easier and frees up stamina for gripping/taunting mobs.

I 100% hope they focus on fixing the tri-focus bug and ignore every request to remove it and ruin what makes Warden tanks so good.

is the suggestion actually selfish if the passive currently hurts most builds that use an ice staff instead of helping them like every other passive in the game? i feel like it's fixing the design. if they added mag blocking with additional benefits in as a cp bonus that should fix the issue in most instances.

BasP

Eh, I'm not sure if I agree with it being too soon for an update. A different MMO released a big balance patch on June 28 which was disliked by its community (almost?) as much as U35 is for similar reasons. Realizing not all parts of the patch had the intended results, another big patch followed on August 23 which mostly consisted of buffs to builds and playstyles that were underperforming in PVE and it was generally well received by its community I believe.

It's not like ZOS hasn't gotten any data from U35 by now, seeing as it went live on PC 1,5 months ago (almost the same amount of time between the aforementioned patches from that other MMO). While I agree that a new vision for each class sometime next year would be welcome and that it might be too soon for large changes to every class, if ZOS successfully buffs the class that's clearly underperforming in PVE with a few relatively minor changes to its passives in the meantime that seems good to me.

ESO_Nightingale

BasP wrote: »

Eh, I'm not sure if I agree with it being too soon for an update. A different MMO released a big balance patch on June 28 which was disliked by its community (almost?) as much as U35 is for similar reasons. Realizing not all parts of the patch had the intended results, another big patch followed on August 23 which mostly consisted of buffs to builds and playstyles that were underperforming in PVE and it was generally well received by its community I believe.

It's not like ZOS hasn't gotten any data from U35 by now, seeing as it went live on PC 1,5 months ago (almost the same amount of time between the aforementioned patches from that other MMO). While I agree that a new vision for each class sometime next year would be welcome and that it might be too soon for large changes to every class, if ZOS successfully buffs the class that's clearly underperforming in PVE with a few relatively minor changes to its passives in the meantime that seems good to me.

what is this comment a response to? because this patch, you may see 1 or 2 more iterations of the warden changes, but nothing more than that.

BasP

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

what is this comment a response to? because this patch, you may see 1 or 2 more iterations of the warden changes, but nothing more than that.

Oops, I meant to reply to the following post.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think that this patch is way too soon for Zos to be doing any passive updates for Warden or class changes in general. Last pts was a disaster and if I were on the Balance team I would take a step back and reevaluate each class based on feedback and data provided.

This patch should have just been content and bug fixes, then maybe after the next patch present a new vision for each class based on pain points and feedback.

ESO_Nightingale

BasP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

what is this comment a response to? because this patch, you may see 1 or 2 more iterations of the warden changes, but nothing more than that.

Oops, I meant to reply to the following post.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I think that this patch is way too soon for Zos to be doing any passive updates for Warden or class changes in general. Last pts was a disaster and if I were on the Balance team I would take a step back and reevaluate each class based on feedback and data provided.

This patch should have just been content and bug fixes, then maybe after the next patch present a new vision for each class based on pain points and feedback.

Oh i see, yeah I'm not sure if it's too soon tbh. It really depends on what they're gonna do going forward. It's probably fine to make a lot of warden adjustments now.

Dottzgaming

Great post nightingale, couldnt agree more.
+1

Darkstorne

My concern from seeing the ice staff change is that they have no idea about the issue they're creating here, and the fact that so few class changes have been proposed for U36 suggests they haven't really dedicated any serious workload to class skills and balance this patch. So the chance of them suddenly dedicating those work hours to try and figure this out mid-PTS seems extremely unlikely. Best case scenario seems to be "okay, you're right, we'll scrap that idea and keep things how they are for now", and nothing significant will happen for Wardens until at least U37.

And I'd happily take that outcome for now tbh

Mr_Stach

Darkstorne wrote: »

My concern from seeing the ice staff change is that they have no idea about the issue they're creating here, and the fact that so few class changes have been proposed for U36 suggests they haven't really dedicated any serious workload to class skills and balance this patch. So the chance of them suddenly dedicating those work hours to try and figure this out mid-PTS seems extremely unlikely. Best case scenario seems to be "okay, you're right, we'll scrap that idea and keep things how they are for now", and nothing significant will happen for Wardens until at least U37.

And I'd happily take that outcome for now tbh

Well this is setting a precedent for all elements right, so are Dks and Sorcs going to have Fire and Lightning Staffs Shoved down their throats as well? Are Templars going to be tied to Resto Staves?

The change is a Pandoras box, Zos needs to undo what they are doing and close it before it does a lot more to Eso at large.

Auldwulfe

I have 3 Wardens .... I made all 3 of them months ago, and only one has made it to champion --- he's a wood elf, does NOT use the bear, is bow focused on front bar with dual wield daggers on back. He was set up as a ranger for doing antiquities, and getting surveys, etc. My goal was to have a ranger that got things, had a heal to support my friends, and maybe used some defensive ice, and the Fetcher flies, as I thought it would be interesting.

He rides the wolf mount, has the Solitude wolf as his pet, and wears the Silver Dawn armor, for the look.... hence, no bear, it would be visibly jarring .. but he is becoming more and more difficult to play. My Nord Warden Tank - sword and board front with 2 handed back, rides a bear as well as using the bear..... he's relegated to making 4k gold a day in writs.... and that is what justifies his existence..... because I spent money buying up his mount and bags..... and he needs to pay it back. There is NO fun there, anymore.....

My third was an Ice Mage concept.... I struggled with it, and simply put, his mount hit 60 speed before he hit level 20.
After U35, I tried again...... but it's already obvious that even sitting there, stroking is frozen wizzy stick is still NOT that satisfying...... and I'm being forced into it....

I am trying to add dual wield to the Nord... but that is rapidly becoming a fallback option for any character.... just make it a dual wield fighter, and whack things.... which is boring, and losing any semblance of fun..... I have other whack it characters, and they are losing their identity with each other.

Shalks has become so niche, that it is more a liability than a help.....

Honestly, it feels like any of the classes have become merely cosmetic additions to the clone troopers we are all running around with.... but the Warden now feels like that unwanted cousin at the wedding reception.

Auldwulfe

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

My concern from seeing the ice staff change is that they have no idea about the issue they're creating here, and the fact that so few class changes have been proposed for U36 suggests they haven't really dedicated any serious workload to class skills and balance this patch. So the chance of them suddenly dedicating those work hours to try and figure this out mid-PTS seems extremely unlikely. Best case scenario seems to be "okay, you're right, we'll scrap that idea and keep things how they are for now", and nothing significant will happen for Wardens until at least U37.

And I'd happily take that outcome for now tbh

Well this is setting a precedent for all elements right, so are Dks and Sorcs going to have Fire and Lightning Staffs Shoved down their throats as well? Are Templars going to be tied to Resto Staves?

The change is a Pandoras box, Zos needs to undo what they are doing and close it before it does a lot more to Eso at large.

Agreed. It just doesn't fix real problems. It adds more by just undoing our bonus to frost damage and messes severely with the balance of weapons on warden. This has "not thought about on any other level than surface" written all over it.