The skill Gap feels so much bigger now

Billium813

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

They buffed the test dummy @Billium813

Ya, I know, and I saw the previous comment too. I was only referring to "120k DPS builds" to point at the 0.01% builds players are pushing towards and how it seems there are way fewer ways post-U35 to approach acceptable DPS numbers to complete content. I was using "120k DPS builds" to say that there are still builds that exceed the DPS that ZOS should be working to reduce. Lowering everyone's DPS didn't eliminate those builds, it made them fewer in number and consolidated them, but at the cost of running many "mid builds" out of the scene.

FeedbackOnly

Billium813 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

They buffed the test dummy @Billium813

Ya, I know, and I saw the previous comment too. I was only referring to "120k DPS builds" to point at the 0.01% builds players are pushing towards and how it seems there are way fewer ways post-U35 to approach acceptable DPS numbers to complete content. I was using "120k DPS builds" to say that there are still builds that exceed the DPS that ZOS should be working to reduce. Lowering everyone's DPS didn't eliminate those builds, it made them fewer in number and consolidated them, but at the cost of running many "mid builds" out of the scene.

This is true they just made the problem worse for the common player. Like sid they forget on eso live they said content was designed for 25k DPS that's on 6 million dummy. Now you got those people doing 16k DPS not finishing content while top end is just find

Listening to the very top did not make the game better. Most of the very top don't understand common players anymore. They just degrade them calling them toxic casuals or roleplays.

Please don't forget common players make most of the population not just the elite few . If fact I saw them rejoicing less people could enjoy trials now. They enjoy the suffering of average of common players.

Billium813

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

This is true they just made the problem worse for the common player. Like sid they forget on eso live they said content was designed for 25k DPS that's on 6 million dummy. Now you got those people doing 16k DPS not finishing content while top end is just find

Top end is annoyed at u35 because they had to change their entire builds. And it wasn't just 1 or 2 classes/skills, everyone had to change to get back to the top 0.1% again and some are still struggling. And they worry that this is how itll be all the time. Once you get into the top 0.1% and have your build set, they don't like having to change everything, rebuild, and spend money on gold mats.

But they'll chase the META. They will get back to the damage they want and mostly just want to make sure changes aren't going to happen again. The average player tho... they don't know why they are doing less damage. They just know that they aren't clearing content anymore. So they go to Google and find a new build. And everything is more narrow now, the META has shrunk even more. There are even less skills worth running, there are even less sets worth running.

I wonder if they worry that week 1, raid groups are going to clear the content sooo fast, that it'll look bad. They don't want things to be too easy. But IMO, forget the 0.1%, forget the speed raid groups. People like to say "well, Veteran content is supposed to be hard, if you can't do it, then just do Normal". But Veteran still gives way better rewards and Veteran Trials/Areas drop Perfected items that are JUST BETTER. I think they should make blue perfected items to Normal and let Veteran be only worth running for achievements or leaderboards. Locking exclusive items there is ALWAYS going to make people want to run it when they might not be ready.

CP5

Would you cite some of those comments of experienced players rejoicing at others not being able to play the content? There were inexperienced players cheering about how 'weaving doesn't matter now' without understanding the full impact the changes had on them, and experienced players clearly outlining to ZOS how these changes would hurt players across the game. If ZOS were to have listened to the upper tier of players they wouldn't have put out update 35 as they did, so please don't try to throw blame.

Bealeb319

I have to agree with one statement here it is a real problem when players are running some of the dlc dungeons and don't understand what is going on they would not know how to progress in some cases if no one is there to unlock doors for them to blindly follow through I have seen many pick up groups where players just give up rather than taking the couple minutes to look things up online maybe there is a better way to guide players to certain mechanics and paths.

TaSheen

Billium813 wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

This is true they just made the problem worse for the common player. Like sid they forget on eso live they said content was designed for 25k DPS that's on 6 million dummy. Now you got those people doing 16k DPS not finishing content while top end is just find

Top end is annoyed at u35 because they had to change their entire builds. And it wasn't just 1 or 2 classes/skills, everyone had to change to get back to the top 0.1% again and some are still struggling. And they worry that this is how itll be all the time. Once you get into the top 0.1% and have your build set, they don't like having to change everything, rebuild, and spend money on gold mats.

I'm a "common player". And my level 47 Redguard Warden in Druid's Braid is able to solo (WITHOUT the bear) 7+ mobs. Yes, this is new for me - my ping is outrageous, so nothing goes well (serious - my ping is ALWAYS north of 999+). But in U35, a level 47 warden is wiping the floor with daedra in Deadlands.

So - for me.... this is fine. Thank you for that visual Gina.

FeedbackOnly

CP5 wrote: »

Would you cite some of those comments of experienced players rejoicing at others not being able to play the content? There were inexperienced players cheering about how 'weaving doesn't matter now' without understanding the full impact the changes had on them, and experienced players clearly outlining to ZOS how these changes would hurt players across the game. If ZOS were to have listened to the upper tier of players they wouldn't have put out update 35 as they did, so please don't try to thrraow blame.

It was in craglorn. I am not making this up. But we can move in from that point. The problem is content should not change into a different game 6 years later withou adapting people better

CP5

That is true, and many experienced players went over in fine detail how these changes would negatively impact players, particularly those who don't invest a heavy amount of time to both know of and adapt to the changes, and many others also said how their prog groups were going to be set back significantly by them. It isn't a case of the top players being listened to and those players not caring about others, neither of those are true, and if anything I would love more people to get interested in trials so the guild I've been in for years would be able to reliably run at least one raid a week without needing upwards of half the team as fills. The issue lies with the problems ZOS stated not being addressed properly, not with a bad intent on any player group's part, so just please understand there are trolls who thrive off of making conflict and drama, but those are not the ones who consistently do that higher difficulty content, and they do not enjoy these changes any more than you.

Ishtarknows

okans wrote: »

Well I'm around CP560, a damage dealer not good at dealing damage, still can't weave good, at least not consistently and whenever I'm in a dungeon, even in a normal one, I feel like other people are doing better than me, especially in boss fights.

There are moments where I attack a mob while the group moving on, the mob loses health but I have to attack a couple more times to kill it. This exact scenario happens so frequently. And sometimes one of groupmates see me dealing with it, they just run next to me, one shot the damn thing and we move on. Hey, there are some fights I think I was OK too but it's never consistent. Many times I find myself just not enough, running around like crazy to escape from boss AOE's, trying every skill and attack to deal more damage yet feel like I'm being carried hard.

Considering I'm using dungeon finder every single time, almost every time I happen to end up with nice people, who either help me or the the group was just too good that I didn't had to do much or they just didn't care anyway. But I want to be able to explore and complete dungeons, do pledges, trials, raids, I just don't want to be a burden to other people while doing those.

So yes, there is definitely a big gap between good players and casuals like me, and I am willing to improve myself. I did a lot of Googling just do improve my damage, spent a lot of time to get better equipment, reconstructed my skill tree, got some more skill points to improve some important passives here and there, yet, when I go to my guild house to test my improved character on a trial dummy, it's a disappointment DPS wise... And I am pretty sure I have nice armor sets for a casual, at least purple, with monster and epic items and all.

I know that I'm a bad player, at least for now, but the game does not help me anyway to improve myself, other than making me feel weak compared to others. I have no idea how making the content harder helps news or casuals to do better in the game. I had zero training when starting this game and had no idea about weaving, global cooldown etc. I gathered information here and there, but it's just not enough yet. I would love it if they tell me what's the optimal and what's the acceptable damage I should be making based on my current armor, weapon and skills. At least something like the screen that show up when you die in a boss fight, telling you how your helmet is not good as your other armor or you should consume a potion or a food to improve your stats, tell me what's wrong with my rotation, when and how should I attack and when and how should I block, run or stand...

Consider doing Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Hollow. These are solo arenas where you only have yourself to rely on. You'll learn more about how your character works, how to still do damage while dodging mechs, and you'll get a nice weapon at the end. If normal is easy enough try vet. VMA used to be the standard back before the weapons dropped on normal - you'd definitely earned the right to carry the VMA weapon then.

As for your dps woes, you won't have the full CP slottables + passives until somewhere around 1200 CP so keep practicing your rotation and as you accumulate more CP it will only increase. It's the well executed rotation that increases dps more than anything else.

FeedbackOnly

Ishtarknows wrote: »

okans wrote: »

Well I'm around CP560, a damage dealer not good at dealing damage, still can't weave good, at least not consistently and whenever I'm in a dungeon, even in a normal one, I feel like other people are doing better than me, especially in boss fights.

There are moments where I attack a mob while the group moving on, the mob loses health but I have to attack a couple more times to kill it. This exact scenario happens so frequently. And sometimes one of groupmates see me dealing with it, they just run next to me, one shot the damn thing and we move on. Hey, there are some fights I think I was OK too but it's never consistent. Many times I find myself just not enough, running around like crazy to escape from boss AOE's, trying every skill and attack to deal more damage yet feel like I'm being carried hard.

Considering I'm using dungeon finder every single time, almost every time I happen to end up with nice people, who either help me or the the group was just too good that I didn't had to do much or they just didn't care anyway. But I want to be able to explore and complete dungeons, do pledges, trials, raids, I just don't want to be a burden to other people while doing those.

So yes, there is definitely a big gap between good players and casuals like me, and I am willing to improve myself. I did a lot of Googling just do improve my damage, spent a lot of time to get better equipment, reconstructed my skill tree, got some more skill points to improve some important passives here and there, yet, when I go to my guild house to test my improved character on a trial dummy, it's a disappointment DPS wise... And I am pretty sure I have nice armor sets for a casual, at least purple, with monster and epic items and all.

I know that I'm a bad player, at least for now, but the game does not help me anyway to improve myself, other than making me feel weak compared to others. I have no idea how making the content harder helps news or casuals to do better in the game. I had zero training when starting this game and had no idea about weaving, global cooldown etc. I gathered information here and there, but it's just not enough yet. I would love it if they tell me what's the optimal and what's the acceptable damage I should be making based on my current armor, weapon and skills. At least something like the screen that show up when you die in a boss fight, telling you how your helmet is not good as your other armor or you should consume a potion or a food to improve your stats, tell me what's wrong with my rotation, when and how should I attack and when and how should I block, run or stand...

Consider doing Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Hollow. These are solo arenas where you only have yourself to rely on. You'll learn more about how your character works, how to still do damage while dodging mechs, and you'll get a nice weapon at the end. If normal is easy enough try vet. VMA used to be the standard back before the weapons dropped on normal - you'd definitely earned the right to carry the VMA weapon then.

As for your dps woes, you won't have the full CP slottables + passives until somewhere around 1200 CP so keep practicing your rotation and as you accumulate more CP it will only increase. It's the well executed rotation that increases dps more than anything else.

Thinking about I wonder if lower cp got hurt more in this update

boi_anachronism_

CP5 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Having spent a fair bit of time in Icereach recently filling out my stickerbook it's become slap-in-the-face obvious that the tutorial needs more than what it shows now.
In every run at least one of the DDs had no clue what red lines emanating from an enemy meant, and they happily stood next to and heavy attacked said enemy, ignorant to the fact that:
a) the health bar was gold and the enemy took no damage and
b) the reason they were dying was because they had not interrupted the enemy they were looking at (doing the "interrupt me" animation).

The current tutorial shows light and heavy attacking, dodging and blocking. Nothing about bashing to interrupt or more importantly, using skills alongside said LA or HA. It's not fit for purpose.

The skill gap is far bigger than merely DPS. It's a knowledge gap.

The Elsweyr tutorial did teach those things, so I would be surprised if the current one doesn't, but the issue is after the game freezes time and covers the screen in the blue overlay asking players to input the keys needed to do those things, that's it. There isn't any part in the tutorial where those tools are needed, and after it, you can forget they're a thing for hundreds of hours until happening into a fight where they're required. New players will forget things if they never have to use them.

Interestingly I had a bout with a high cp guy in blackwood. The overworld triple boss where they all synergize. I was maybe 500cp at the time and I had to tell him to interrupt them otherwise we could not do damage. He was about 1800cp give or take so this is an overall issue. Folks just do not understand how important and ubiquitous bash and interrupt mechanics are in the game.

ForzaRammer

It’s been increasing since summerset. Turns out the gap was lowest when meta was using 8 skills every 10 seconds with heavy attacks time to time, because you can do fine without good apm