seventyfive wrote: »Ask yourself this - what is the goal of nerfing something?
And before you ask, my interpretation of their comments regarding the ring is that it was meant to be nerfed for pve as well, although not as much as initially perhaps.
I believe they've achieved what they set out to achieve. Seems to be as good as it deserves to be now, with a little extra love for pve but still noticeably behind the options that require significantly more effort from the player, just as it should be.
a 10% nerf would make the ring still useable. A 20% nerf makes it garbage. And it's actually probably a buff for heavy attack builds. This makes the ring only useable for a single type of build. Disabled players rejoice! The devs have seen the light, and have granted you one playstyle you can actually use.
Important question, because too many players are doing this in their number reporting.
How are you coming to that 20% nerf amount?
Are you parsing, in a patch that is seeing both dot nerfs and light attack nerfs. Because if you are parsing, that 20% nerf isn't really just Oakensoul, it is the dots and light attack nerfs as well.
I also think it is a bit disingenuous to want this for accessibility reason, but they complain when they make it incredibly useful for the most accessibility focues form of attack, heavy attack builds. Like, people gravitate towards heavy attack spam builds due to their ease of use and relatively few button presses. It seems like the perfect pairing to enable those further using the ring.
So which is it? Are 2 bar builds too hard to run for some people that they need Oakensoul to enable them to do more content, or at least do it more comfortably. Or are Oakensoul builds meant to be stepping stones to 2 bar builds, so, as such, these DPS nerfs aren't really a problem, because if they were, players would just use the stronger heavy attack build, which is more accessible, or they would just go to a 2 bar build since they are ready to move on.
The damage lost from the changes to this ring was 25% in the previous PTS. I don't mean 25% of the damage the ring provides, I mean 25% of your overall damage potential. I tested on multiple characters, and every time, comparing a normal 2-bar build without changing anything but this ring to another mythic, to the new damage with this ring, to take into account the DPS lost in comparison to live on a 2-bar build, by calculating the % damage lost for all 4, those being the two builds on live and the two on the PTS, then subtracting the results, across the board the loss from the ring alone was between 23% and 27%, averaging 25%. Adding Minor Slayer only bumps this up to 20%. So it's neither disingenuous, since I tested it properly, or is it inaccurate.
So, the ring does 20% less DPS than a 2 bar build... That seems more than fair considering they are using 5 less skills. It shouldn't do anything near what a 2 bar build can do.
You're misquoting me and doing math wrong. You subtract the difference. It was doing about 40-50% less damage than a 2-bar build in the previous pts, and 15-25% on live. And the only builds that did 15% on live were stam sorcs.
Following up on this, and kind of proving my point. If the ring is a 20% nerf from live, is it just the RING or is it a total parse.
That is the important distinction. Because ALL builds are nerfed from live. All of them. So just by the very nature of the PTS nerfs for all builds, Oakensoul will be nerfed.
Which is why, comparing % nerfs to live needs context.
Already went over this and gave context. It's the whole parse; the nerfs are blanket nerfs. 10% crit damage, 200 weapon and spell damage, 5% general damage, 1.5 ult gen. These nerfs to the ring effect your total damage. It's not like it's just effecting a set that deals damage and that damage is being adjusted, it's effecting your total effectiveness. That should be obvious based on what the ring is and shouldn't even be a question [snip]
And to answer your previous question, if you use percentiles, it doesnt matter what your DPS is. It scales up and down. If you were to test it with relequen, a piece of slimecraw, and i guess medusa's on a stamina warden and deal 60k dps, then test it with sea serpent's coil or something and add a backbar, it'll be consistent even when you do a magicka nb build with war maiden's and pillars of nirn; regardless of how good or bad the build is, percentiles should be consistent and if they are, the math is correct. So that question is also not necessary, [snip]
seventyfive wrote: »Ask yourself this - what is the goal of nerfing something?
And before you ask, my interpretation of their comments regarding the ring is that it was meant to be nerfed for pve as well, although not as much as initially perhaps.
I believe they've achieved what they set out to achieve. Seems to be as good as it deserves to be now, with a little extra love for pve but still noticeably behind the options that require significantly more effort from the player, just as it should be.
a 10% nerf would make the ring still useable. A 20% nerf makes it garbage. And it's actually probably a buff for heavy attack builds. This makes the ring only useable for a single type of build. Disabled players rejoice! The devs have seen the light, and have granted you one playstyle you can actually use.
Important question, because too many players are doing this in their number reporting.
How are you coming to that 20% nerf amount?
Are you parsing, in a patch that is seeing both dot nerfs and light attack nerfs. Because if you are parsing, that 20% nerf isn't really just Oakensoul, it is the dots and light attack nerfs as well.
I also think it is a bit disingenuous to want this for accessibility reason, but they complain when they make it incredibly useful for the most accessibility focues form of attack, heavy attack builds. Like, people gravitate towards heavy attack spam builds due to their ease of use and relatively few button presses. It seems like the perfect pairing to enable those further using the ring.
So which is it? Are 2 bar builds too hard to run for some people that they need Oakensoul to enable them to do more content, or at least do it more comfortably. Or are Oakensoul builds meant to be stepping stones to 2 bar builds, so, as such, these DPS nerfs aren't really a problem, because if they were, players would just use the stronger heavy attack build, which is more accessible, or they would just go to a 2 bar build since they are ready to move on.
The damage lost from the changes to this ring was 25% in the previous PTS. I don't mean 25% of the damage the ring provides, I mean 25% of your overall damage potential. I tested on multiple characters, and every time, comparing a normal 2-bar build without changing anything but this ring to another mythic, to the new damage with this ring, to take into account the DPS lost in comparison to live on a 2-bar build, by calculating the % damage lost for all 4, those being the two builds on live and the two on the PTS, then subtracting the results, across the board the loss from the ring alone was between 23% and 27%, averaging 25%. Adding Minor Slayer only bumps this up to 20%. So it's neither disingenuous, since I tested it properly, or is it inaccurate.
So, the ring does 20% less DPS than a 2 bar build... That seems more than fair considering they are using 5 less skills. It shouldn't do anything near what a 2 bar build can do.
You're misquoting me and doing math wrong. You subtract the difference. It was doing about 40-50% less damage than a 2-bar build in the previous pts, and 15-25% on live. And the only builds that did 15% on live were stam sorcs.
Following up on this, and kind of proving my point. If the ring is a 20% nerf from live, is it just the RING or is it a total parse.
That is the important distinction. Because ALL builds are nerfed from live. All of them. So just by the very nature of the PTS nerfs for all builds, Oakensoul will be nerfed.
Which is why, comparing % nerfs to live needs context.
Already went over this and gave context. It's the whole parse; the nerfs are blanket nerfs. 10% crit damage, 200 weapon and spell damage, 5% general damage, 1.5 ult gen. These nerfs to the ring effect your total damage. It's not like it's just effecting a set that deals damage and that damage is being adjusted, it's effecting your total effectiveness. That should be obvious based on what the ring is and shouldn't even be a question [snip]
And to answer your previous question, if you use percentiles, it doesnt matter what your DPS is. It scales up and down. If you were to test it with relequen, a piece of slimecraw, and i guess medusa's on a stamina warden and deal 60k dps, then test it with sea serpent's coil or something and add a backbar, it'll be consistent even when you do a magicka nb build with war maiden's and pillars of nirn; regardless of how good or bad the build is, percentiles should be consistent and if they are, the math is correct. So that question is also not necessary, [snip]
So this proves my point then. The ring is just as effective live as it is on PTS. If you are judging a PARSE on live to a PARSE on PTS.
seventyfive wrote: »Ask yourself this - what is the goal of nerfing something?
And before you ask, my interpretation of their comments regarding the ring is that it was meant to be nerfed for pve as well, although not as much as initially perhaps.
I believe they've achieved what they set out to achieve. Seems to be as good as it deserves to be now, with a little extra love for pve but still noticeably behind the options that require significantly more effort from the player, just as it should be.
a 10% nerf would make the ring still useable. A 20% nerf makes it garbage. And it's actually probably a buff for heavy attack builds. This makes the ring only useable for a single type of build. Disabled players rejoice! The devs have seen the light, and have granted you one playstyle you can actually use.
Important question, because too many players are doing this in their number reporting.
How are you coming to that 20% nerf amount?
Are you parsing, in a patch that is seeing both dot nerfs and light attack nerfs. Because if you are parsing, that 20% nerf isn't really just Oakensoul, it is the dots and light attack nerfs as well.
I also think it is a bit disingenuous to want this for accessibility reason, but they complain when they make it incredibly useful for the most accessibility focues form of attack, heavy attack builds. Like, people gravitate towards heavy attack spam builds due to their ease of use and relatively few button presses. It seems like the perfect pairing to enable those further using the ring.
So which is it? Are 2 bar builds too hard to run for some people that they need Oakensoul to enable them to do more content, or at least do it more comfortably. Or are Oakensoul builds meant to be stepping stones to 2 bar builds, so, as such, these DPS nerfs aren't really a problem, because if they were, players would just use the stronger heavy attack build, which is more accessible, or they would just go to a 2 bar build since they are ready to move on.
The damage lost from the changes to this ring was 25% in the previous PTS. I don't mean 25% of the damage the ring provides, I mean 25% of your overall damage potential. I tested on multiple characters, and every time, comparing a normal 2-bar build without changing anything but this ring to another mythic, to the new damage with this ring, to take into account the DPS lost in comparison to live on a 2-bar build, by calculating the % damage lost for all 4, those being the two builds on live and the two on the PTS, then subtracting the results, across the board the loss from the ring alone was between 23% and 27%, averaging 25%. Adding Minor Slayer only bumps this up to 20%. So it's neither disingenuous, since I tested it properly, or is it inaccurate.
So, the ring does 20% less DPS than a 2 bar build... That seems more than fair considering they are using 5 less skills. It shouldn't do anything near what a 2 bar build can do.
You're misquoting me and doing math wrong. You subtract the difference. It was doing about 40-50% less damage than a 2-bar build in the previous pts, and 15-25% on live. And the only builds that did 15% on live were stam sorcs.
Following up on this, and kind of proving my point. If the ring is a 20% nerf from live, is it just the RING or is it a total parse.
That is the important distinction. Because ALL builds are nerfed from live. All of them. So just by the very nature of the PTS nerfs for all builds, Oakensoul will be nerfed.
Which is why, comparing % nerfs to live needs context.
Already went over this and gave context. It's the whole parse; the nerfs are blanket nerfs. 10% crit damage, 200 weapon and spell damage, 5% general damage, 1.5 ult gen. These nerfs to the ring effect your total damage. It's not like it's just effecting a set that deals damage and that damage is being adjusted, it's effecting your total effectiveness. That should be obvious based on what the ring is and shouldn't even be a question [snip]
And to answer your previous question, if you use percentiles, it doesnt matter what your DPS is. It scales up and down. If you were to test it with relequen, a piece of slimecraw, and i guess medusa's on a stamina warden and deal 60k dps, then test it with sea serpent's coil or something and add a backbar, it'll be consistent even when you do a magicka nb build with war maiden's and pillars of nirn; regardless of how good or bad the build is, percentiles should be consistent and if they are, the math is correct. So that question is also not necessary, [snip]
So this proves my point then. The ring is just as effective live as it is on PTS. If you are judging a PARSE on live to a PARSE on PTS.
[snip] 25% is from the ring. This is ON TOP of what you lose from all the other nerfs. For example, the build I was actually using, a stam sorc without crystal weapons, lost about 45% of its damage in PTS 1. I'm comparing parses on live to parses in the PTS, comparing them based on the damage differences between oakensoul builds and non-oakensoul builds, and seeing just how much damage is lost in both cases. [snip]
Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »Meh, back to the "bargain bin" for this mythic. Had they gone with just separating minor/major for PvP and PvE, I would have kept using it.
On the bright side I get my speed boost back with wild hunt, and I don't need to switch out the ring to use my bow when fighting bosses. And I spent weeks sitting at a chest trying to get the last lead. NEVER AGAIN!
seventyfive wrote: »Ask yourself this - what is the goal of nerfing something?
And before you ask, my interpretation of their comments regarding the ring is that it was meant to be nerfed for pve as well, although not as much as initially perhaps.
I believe they've achieved what they set out to achieve. Seems to be as good as it deserves to be now, with a little extra love for pve but still noticeably behind the options that require significantly more effort from the player, just as it should be.
a 10% nerf would make the ring still useable. A 20% nerf makes it garbage. And it's actually probably a buff for heavy attack builds. This makes the ring only useable for a single type of build. Disabled players rejoice! The devs have seen the light, and have granted you one playstyle you can actually use.
Important question, because too many players are doing this in their number reporting.
How are you coming to that 20% nerf amount?
Are you parsing, in a patch that is seeing both dot nerfs and light attack nerfs. Because if you are parsing, that 20% nerf isn't really just Oakensoul, it is the dots and light attack nerfs as well.
I also think it is a bit disingenuous to want this for accessibility reason, but they complain when they make it incredibly useful for the most accessibility focues form of attack, heavy attack builds. Like, people gravitate towards heavy attack spam builds due to their ease of use and relatively few button presses. It seems like the perfect pairing to enable those further using the ring.
So which is it? Are 2 bar builds too hard to run for some people that they need Oakensoul to enable them to do more content, or at least do it more comfortably. Or are Oakensoul builds meant to be stepping stones to 2 bar builds, so, as such, these DPS nerfs aren't really a problem, because if they were, players would just use the stronger heavy attack build, which is more accessible, or they would just go to a 2 bar build since they are ready to move on.
The damage lost from the changes to this ring was 25% in the previous PTS. I don't mean 25% of the damage the ring provides, I mean 25% of your overall damage potential. I tested on multiple characters, and every time, comparing a normal 2-bar build without changing anything but this ring to another mythic, to the new damage with this ring, to take into account the DPS lost in comparison to live on a 2-bar build, by calculating the % damage lost for all 4, those being the two builds on live and the two on the PTS, then subtracting the results, across the board the loss from the ring alone was between 23% and 27%, averaging 25%. Adding Minor Slayer only bumps this up to 20%. So it's neither disingenuous, since I tested it properly, or is it inaccurate.
So, the ring does 20% less DPS than a 2 bar build... That seems more than fair considering they are using 5 less skills. It shouldn't do anything near what a 2 bar build can do.
You're misquoting me and doing math wrong. You subtract the difference. It was doing about 40-50% less damage than a 2-bar build in the previous pts, and 15-25% on live. And the only builds that did 15% on live were stam sorcs.
Following up on this, and kind of proving my point. If the ring is a 20% nerf from live, is it just the RING or is it a total parse.
That is the important distinction. Because ALL builds are nerfed from live. All of them. So just by the very nature of the PTS nerfs for all builds, Oakensoul will be nerfed.
Which is why, comparing % nerfs to live needs context.
Already went over this and gave context. It's the whole parse; the nerfs are blanket nerfs. 10% crit damage, 200 weapon and spell damage, 5% general damage, 1.5 ult gen. These nerfs to the ring effect your total damage. It's not like it's just effecting a set that deals damage and that damage is being adjusted, it's effecting your total effectiveness. That should be obvious based on what the ring is and shouldn't even be a question [snip]
And to answer your previous question, if you use percentiles, it doesnt matter what your DPS is. It scales up and down. If you were to test it with relequen, a piece of slimecraw, and i guess medusa's on a stamina warden and deal 60k dps, then test it with sea serpent's coil or something and add a backbar, it'll be consistent even when you do a magicka nb build with war maiden's and pillars of nirn; regardless of how good or bad the build is, percentiles should be consistent and if they are, the math is correct. So that question is also not necessary, [snip]
So this proves my point then. The ring is just as effective live as it is on PTS. If you are judging a PARSE on live to a PARSE on PTS.
[snip] 25% is from the ring. This is ON TOP of what you lose from all the other nerfs. For example, the build I was actually using, a stam sorc without crystal weapons, lost about 45% of its damage in PTS 1. I'm comparing parses on live to parses in the PTS, comparing them based on the damage differences between oakensoul builds and non-oakensoul builds, and seeing just how much damage is lost in both cases. [snip]
seventyfive wrote: »Ask yourself this - what is the goal of nerfing something?
And before you ask, my interpretation of their comments regarding the ring is that it was meant to be nerfed for pve as well, although not as much as initially perhaps.
I believe they've achieved what they set out to achieve. Seems to be as good as it deserves to be now, with a little extra love for pve but still noticeably behind the options that require significantly more effort from the player, just as it should be.
a 10% nerf would make the ring still useable. A 20% nerf makes it garbage. And it's actually probably a buff for heavy attack builds. This makes the ring only useable for a single type of build. Disabled players rejoice! The devs have seen the light, and have granted you one playstyle you can actually use.
Important question, because too many players are doing this in their number reporting.
How are you coming to that 20% nerf amount?
Are you parsing, in a patch that is seeing both dot nerfs and light attack nerfs. Because if you are parsing, that 20% nerf isn't really just Oakensoul, it is the dots and light attack nerfs as well.
I also think it is a bit disingenuous to want this for accessibility reason, but they complain when they make it incredibly useful for the most accessibility focues form of attack, heavy attack builds. Like, people gravitate towards heavy attack spam builds due to their ease of use and relatively few button presses. It seems like the perfect pairing to enable those further using the ring.
So which is it? Are 2 bar builds too hard to run for some people that they need Oakensoul to enable them to do more content, or at least do it more comfortably. Or are Oakensoul builds meant to be stepping stones to 2 bar builds, so, as such, these DPS nerfs aren't really a problem, because if they were, players would just use the stronger heavy attack build, which is more accessible, or they would just go to a 2 bar build since they are ready to move on.
The damage lost from the changes to this ring was 25% in the previous PTS. I don't mean 25% of the damage the ring provides, I mean 25% of your overall damage potential. I tested on multiple characters, and every time, comparing a normal 2-bar build without changing anything but this ring to another mythic, to the new damage with this ring, to take into account the DPS lost in comparison to live on a 2-bar build, by calculating the % damage lost for all 4, those being the two builds on live and the two on the PTS, then subtracting the results, across the board the loss from the ring alone was between 23% and 27%, averaging 25%. Adding Minor Slayer only bumps this up to 20%. So it's neither disingenuous, since I tested it properly, or is it inaccurate.
So, the ring does 20% less DPS than a 2 bar build... That seems more than fair considering they are using 5 less skills. It shouldn't do anything near what a 2 bar build can do.
You're misquoting me and doing math wrong. You subtract the difference. It was doing about 40-50% less damage than a 2-bar build in the previous pts, and 15-25% on live. And the only builds that did 15% on live were stam sorcs.
Following up on this, and kind of proving my point. If the ring is a 20% nerf from live, is it just the RING or is it a total parse.
That is the important distinction. Because ALL builds are nerfed from live. All of them. So just by the very nature of the PTS nerfs for all builds, Oakensoul will be nerfed.
Which is why, comparing % nerfs to live needs context.
Already went over this and gave context. It's the whole parse; the nerfs are blanket nerfs. 10% crit damage, 200 weapon and spell damage, 5% general damage, 1.5 ult gen. These nerfs to the ring effect your total damage. It's not like it's just effecting a set that deals damage and that damage is being adjusted, it's effecting your total effectiveness. That should be obvious based on what the ring is and shouldn't even be a question [snip]
And to answer your previous question, if you use percentiles, it doesnt matter what your DPS is. It scales up and down. If you were to test it with relequen, a piece of slimecraw, and i guess medusa's on a stamina warden and deal 60k dps, then test it with sea serpent's coil or something and add a backbar, it'll be consistent even when you do a magicka nb build with war maiden's and pillars of nirn; regardless of how good or bad the build is, percentiles should be consistent and if they are, the math is correct. So that question is also not necessary, [snip]
So this proves my point then. The ring is just as effective live as it is on PTS. If you are judging a PARSE on live to a PARSE on PTS.
[snip] 25% is from the ring. This is ON TOP of what you lose from all the other nerfs. For example, the build I was actually using, a stam sorc without crystal weapons, lost about 45% of its damage in PTS 1. I'm comparing parses on live to parses in the PTS, comparing them based on the damage differences between oakensoul builds and non-oakensoul builds, and seeing just how much damage is lost in both cases. [snip]
Okay rather then trying to clarify anything, let's try something different. How about hands-on experience.
Try going on live and making a competent build with the ring. If you have Relequen for example, you could try for a build with relequen + something else (though keeping in mind the PTS, you might want to try a different set since the main buff to the ring is minor slayer). Just grab some good sets that make for decent DPS builds you might have on one of your toons, or in your bank. Since you'd just be testing it, you don't need to reconstruct anything. Don't do a heavy attack build by the way; empower is currently broken on the PTS ring so you'll deal a ton less damage than you should if you opt to go that route.
Try to make a good build and test it out. Kill a world boss, try some overland content in High Isle, run a dungeon or two, and record your parses on the trial dummy as well as the 3m dummy. Then go into the PTS, and try the same build. Try a little overland content, a world boss, and record your parse. Keep in mind, in the pts the trial dummy gained Major Courage and Major Slayer, as well as a couple other debuffs, so recording your DPS on both the trial dummy and the 3m dummy on live is just so you can get the % difference between your 3m parses. If you find out the % difference between those parses, you can use that % to see how much damage you need to subtract from your live trial dummy parse by multiplying the % as a decimal by your live trial parse, and then subtracting the result from said trial parse. You can then record a trial parse on the PTS to see if it's accurate.
If you do all that, you'll get a good idea for the damage lost. Or even just try a dungeon and some overland content without recording parses, you'll feel the difference.
1) The ring is not overperforming in pve on live. A lot of people are using it, but that doesn't mean it's overperforming. It could mean that a single bar playstyle with 5 active abilities is more fun to play with than two bars where you have to recast maintenance buffs.
2) The switch from major to minor buffs is a lot larger of a nerf than it seems, because in a group setting, those minor buffs are all covered, and in a solo setting some classes already have access to a lot of those minor buffs.
3) Minor slayer / aegis don't come close to making up for the loss of major buffs, but its a start. Empower is useless now for everything except niche heavy attack builds.
Not going to bother responding to all that, because your first paragraph is inaccurate. Oakensoul on live isn't even competitive with two bar builds in pve, let alone "blowing them out of the water".
Not going to bother responding to all that, because your first paragraph is inaccurate. Oakensoul on live isn't even competitive with two bar builds in pve, let alone "blowing them out of the water".
aurelius_fx wrote: »Only 20%?
C'mon, people.
They released an item that was way over tuned. Everyone knew it. The forum was full of statements during Update 34 PTS. Youtube was full of commentary. It was no secret to anyone that what they released on live was not only too powerful, it drastically would reshape the landscape and create harmful play styles leading to toxic behavior in PVP.
IF they had released what is currently on PTS with U34, there would have been no complaints that it was under powered.
A lot of people are using it, but that doesn't mean it's overperforming.
Oakensoul makes it a lot easier to go much faster. I have other runs, such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zXF4zFZCU&list=PLa7gTHogec6RoX9gMDlg3JyXHV8WULwdd&index=15 from two years ago, where i'm using a bow plus two crafted sets (New Moon Acolyte and Torug's Pact) along with Mighty Chudan monster helm, and I get a Flawless where i'm just light attacking.
Also, simply look at the additional effect that Perfected Relequen adds above-and-beyond regular Relequen, it's just an additional +1096 stamina. That is going to make so little difference, particularly when just light attacking, that it's basically negligible.
Doing it naked with Oakensoul might be tough if only light attacking. Doing it naked (no body pieces, but weapons+jewelry allowed) is probably quite possible with Oakensoul where you're using abilities, but only having 4 pieces available for a set makes the choice of set a little awkward. Though at that point, I feel like I'd need to do two separate runs, one with Oakensoul, one without, to show that it's not exactly Oakensoul, just Oakensoul makes it... safer/faster
Yes, Oakensoul is way more efficient. For example, don't need to run Chudan, because you get Resolve already. You also get the +430 weapon damage from Major Courage that you wouldn't have had either way. There's just so much packed into that item that makes you able to slot other stuff for various passives.
The bow light attack run, there's a 15 minute break at the end of arena 8, because then-5-month-old baby son needed attention. So it'd only have been like.. 15-ish minutes longer than Oakensoul. But either way, I doubt i'd be able to replicate a 50 minute run only light attacking if I weren't using Oakensoul. Maybe Belharza's and a lot of practice.
As a mediocre player, who pretty much only PvEs and has gotten as gud as I'm going to git, I really like the ring. I've previously gotten a 100k parse on magsorc, but translating that into a real trial is another story. I've finished vMA, but it was an almighty hair-tearing slog and trifecta was just never going to happen for me. There are a couple of world bosses (Ascendant Order) where there's just too much incoming damage for me to solo them at my level of play. With the ring, they're easy to solo on my magplar and stamsorc.
I'm still confused - is it really OP as in it beats two bar setups and creates an I WIN button for PVP, or is it OP because it allows average players to perform better, or is it OP because it lets good players pull off some neat tricks for their Youtube channel, or is it OP just because well it has so many buffs it must be OP?
From the comments on the latest patch notes, it appears the issue for ZOS was too many people using it, not necessarily dominating with it - but maybe that is telling them something regarding player's actual enjoyment of their clunky 2-bar buff buff buff combat set up they should heed.
I'm still confused - is it really OP as in it beats two bar setups and creates an I WIN button for PVP, or is it OP because it allows average players to perform better, or is it OP because it lets good players pull off some neat tricks for their Youtube channel, or is it OP just because well it has so many buffs it must be OP?
From the comments on the latest patch notes, it appears the issue for ZOS was too many people using it, not necessarily dominating with it - but maybe that is telling them something regarding player's actual enjoyment of their clunky 2-bar buff buff buff combat set up they should heed.
Yeah it wasn't an op item. It was just overperforming in PVP. ZoS thinks that when everyone starts using and item, then it must be OP. But in actuality, the majority of the playerbase is at mid-game. The ring is literally for early and mid-game players that don't have the means to make a really good build, or don't have the skills to perform a good build. So most of them started using it. That doesn't mean it's OP, but it was doing its job as an accessibility item. And because lots of people dislike the bar swap mechanic lol.
Every single quote you're showing is of people that are at mid-game or early game
Every single quote you're showing is of people that are at mid-game or early game
You either didn't read the Reddit posts or didn't comprehend them.
The Redditor I quoted twice was doing Flawless VMA runs using light attacks only, with different builds. Oakensoul blew the doors off every other build that that player has tried in terms of speed and safety. The videos are on on that person's YouTube channel.
That is not "mid-game or early game" 🤣🤣🤣
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm still confused - is it really OP as in it beats two bar setups and creates an I WIN button for PVP, or is it OP because it allows average players to perform better, or is it OP because it lets good players pull off some neat tricks for their Youtube channel, or is it OP just because well it has so many buffs it must be OP?
From the comments on the latest patch notes, it appears the issue for ZOS was too many people using it, not necessarily dominating with it - but maybe that is telling them something regarding player's actual enjoyment of their clunky 2-bar buff buff buff combat set up they should heed.
Yeah it wasn't an op item. It was just overperforming in PVP. ZoS thinks that when everyone starts using and item, then it must be OP. But in actuality, the majority of the playerbase is at mid-game. The ring is literally for early and mid-game players that don't have the means to make a really good build, or don't have the skills to perform a good build. So most of them started using it. That doesn't mean it's OP, but it was doing its job as an accessibility item. And because lots of people dislike the bar swap mechanic lol.
Uh, no. It's not supposed to be for mid-game progression players. It's supposed to be for disabled players who could never achieve even mid-game without it.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm still confused - is it really OP as in it beats two bar setups and creates an I WIN button for PVP, or is it OP because it allows average players to perform better, or is it OP because it lets good players pull off some neat tricks for their Youtube channel, or is it OP just because well it has so many buffs it must be OP?
From the comments on the latest patch notes, it appears the issue for ZOS was too many people using it, not necessarily dominating with it - but maybe that is telling them something regarding player's actual enjoyment of their clunky 2-bar buff buff buff combat set up they should heed.
Yeah it wasn't an op item. It was just overperforming in PVP. ZoS thinks that when everyone starts using and item, then it must be OP. But in actuality, the majority of the playerbase is at mid-game. The ring is literally for early and mid-game players that don't have the means to make a really good build, or don't have the skills to perform a good build. So most of them started using it. That doesn't mean it's OP, but it was doing its job as an accessibility item. And because lots of people dislike the bar swap mechanic lol.
Uh, no. It's not supposed to be for mid-game progression players. It's supposed to be for disabled players who could never achieve even mid-game without it.
Quoting me on that is kinda meh imo. Been pushing for that since Oakensoul was announced.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611162/oakensoul-major-slayer-major-aegis/p1
Read number 1; the first group it's made for. But that doesn't mean it's not made for other users either.
Every single quote you're showing is of people that are at mid-game or early game
You either didn't read the Reddit posts or didn't comprehend them.
The Redditor I quoted twice was doing Flawless VMA runs using light attacks only, with different builds. Oakensoul blew the doors off every other build that that player has tried in terms of speed and safety. The videos are on on that person's YouTube channel.
That is not "mid-game or early game" 🤣🤣🤣
Anyone can do a flawless VMA run with any build given time and mechanics. You can probably do exactly the same thing, easier with the ring of the pale order. Stunts like that don't prove whether or not an item is overpowered. It only proves the person that did it is very good with the game's mechanics. I seriously doubt it was easier with the ring than it is with the ring of the pale order. It also doesn't matter if an oakensoul build did better than any other build for a VMA run with... Light attacks only. The guy isn't going for any score pushing, he's not killing off the last boss of whatever vet dungeon in 30 seconds like some giga-min-maxed guilds sometimes do. He's doing a stunt.