Just an opinion: Imperial City/Cyrodiil PvE

Scaletho

Ok, it's just an idea, an opinion, not intended to offend PvPers.

But I think that during PvP events in Imperial City and Cyrodiil ZOS should give PvE players an option to go there and become immune to PvP attacks and, obviously, incapable to do PvP. Only Daedras could attack, and be killed by PvE players.

PvErs could take only new missions specific created for them and not intended to be part of the PvP missions (except perhaps scouting and Cyrodiil own PvE missions already in place).

Imperial City main story line stays as PvP. All other IC missions could be part of PvE because... well... they ARE PvE intended. IC bosses should not be attacked by PvErs nor attack them.

Mostly PvE players are not capable to fight or defend yourselves against PvPers, whom do not stop killing anyone they see from different faction.

There is no way to differentiate a DC/EP/AD PvP from PvE player simply looking to CP points. And those players who tried to act in defensive most time are not respected, and attacked anyway.

During PvP events players which don't like/don't care/are newbies of PVP suffer to get reward boxers. A very large part of ESO players stay away from the event simply because they don't have build sets able to defend them from occasional PvP attacks.

Yeah, I know: "There are dozens of PvE events, skip one or two PvP is not a big deal". I just think it will be nice to give PvErs a chance to participate and get a decent number of reward boxes.

I think this is feasible, despite the kind of complexity. We already have something like that when someone ask another player to duel in PvE regions. Why not the inverse?

Amottica

Scaletho wrote: »

But I think that during PvP events in Imperial City and Cyrodiil ZOS should give PvE players an option to go there and become immune to PvP attacks and, obviously, incapable to do PvP. Only Daedras could attack, and be killed by PvE players.

What is the point of having a PvP event if we are going to essentialy make it so we can eliminate PvP?

In other words, this will not be happening. We know this because Zenimax has not only avoided making this event PvE friendly, there was once a means to gain tickets in this event via PvE without going into Cyrodiil or IC. They eliminated that option and now require us to go into a PvP environment to get those tickets.

BTW, it is easy to pretty much avoid PvP and get the tickets from Cyrodiil. Many posts have explained how to do it and it works very well.

Have a good day.

dinokstrunz

It's a PvP focused event therefore the it should be centred around PvP. There's plenty of other PvE events on the calendar already. There's no need to eliminate PvP events for other people. As discussed countless times on this forum there are ways to avoid fighting to obtain tickets. Dead horse subject at this point.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Its about time ZOS actually start removing these redundant threads. They constantly close threads about more serious and impactful issues facing the playerbase because "we already have a thread discussing this very subject". Not sure why these seem to always get a pass by mods.

VaranisArano

You can participate as a PVEer...but that means accepting the risk of dying rather than trying to remove it. One of the things I did when I wrote my Whitestrake's Mayhem guide was to specifically do the Imperial City dailies on two PVE builds and give my impression of some strategies for success. (The rest of the guide has more advice for PVEers who are trying out Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds.)

But first, you're going to die in PVP. That's okay! Everyone dies in PVP. PVPers dies a ton in PVP.

For Imperial CIty, I'd recommend three options for PVEers who want to use builds you probably already have.

1. The Stealthy Thief: Stealth is a great option in Imperial City that will get you past a lot of NPCs, make you invisible to players, and best of all will let you size up a quest area before you rush in where angels fear to tread. Downsides: anyone who detects you will probably assume you're a ganker and attack in self-defense.

2. The Speedy Farmer: This is my favorite. I take my Craglorn nirncrux farmer and just sprint through the quest areas, outrunning all the mobs of NPCs. Now, understand that I die if a player so much sneezes on me. But because I'm so fast, its no big deal to rez up and run back to the spot by another route or go to a different quest spot quickly.

3. The Tank: Build yourself like a PVE tank. You're buffed up to the gills and deal enough damage to deal with mobs. You keep your defensive buffs going and you heal proactively with HOTs ticking. Basically, you look like a PVPer who's prepared to turn the tables on any ganker who attacks.

Now, none of those builds are strictly necessary to do the quests in Imperial City. I've also done them on my PVE Stam Sorc DD and my PVP MagDK healer. But if you want ideas, those are some common PVE builds that worked for me, with one major caveat:

Everyone dies in PVP. That's okay! Rez up and try again, but don't beat your head into a wall.

If you remove all of the risk of PVP, then you are not actually participating in this event, and you don't get the event tickets. On that note, allow me to quote ZOS' announcement for this event:

"Battle with and against your fellow adventures across Cyrodiil, the Imperial City, and Battlegrounds, all the while earning bonus Alliance Points and XP, in-game rewards, and more!"
"As you battle your fellow players and earn glory during the Whitestrake’s Mayhem event, you can earn event-specific loot."
"Battle it out with your fellow players during the Whitestrake’s Mayhem in-game event to earn glory and unique rewards."

With that in mind, if you have questions about how to approach Whitestrake's Mayhem and the risk of PVP as a PVEer, please let us know if you've got questions! I started out as a PVE-only player, so I try to pass on what I learned when I first started to PVP. And I'm far from the only PVPer offering advice for how PVEers can prepare, and there's a lot of casual PVEers who are earning their tickets who've been offering advice on how they did it!

So, no, I don't think that PVEers need a safe option to let them participate in Whitestrake's Mayhem. Plenty of them manage to participate just fine, even if some grumble about it.

markulrich1966

they already built in such a fallback, the Arena District Quest.

join campaign
go to room with 6 ladders leading up, do NOT enter the sewers.
Climb up ladder to Arena District, take daily quest there (rescue 12 civilians)
There are 4 civ around. They respawn after 5-10 minutes.
Rescue them by shooting daedra beside them, do not leave the platform. 2 even count if others rescue them.
This way I did all the IC dailies for the whole event on 2 servers yesterday, using 24 characters.
Got killed only 1 time, a level 13 character that was hit by the bow ultimates of a ganker. He is a hero now and very rich as I lost 30 TelVar to him *lol

Cyro has a similar mode by the additional eventcampaigns.
As you most likely will find one that is largely dominated by your faction.
Enter cyro campaigns until you find one where the map is dominated by your faction (all keeps red, blue or yellow).
Travel to one of the 3 cities shown on the map, there are 2 more but not shown on the map.
Pick up the daily, most can be done in the city itself, only few require a small ride. Takes 5-10 minutes this way.
On such a dominated map the risk of getting ganked is very low, in case it happens, use one of the other 3 cities.

RBAP28

Ugh....There's ten post just like this asking the same thing.

I need to start a post about how I need a PvP pass while in PvE so I can wreck the person with mr flappy flappy or bear pet out at any turn -in site. I mean how would you like it if out of the blue someone just up and killed you while you were questing?

Browiseth

Browiseth wrote: »

isn't the whole point of this event to encourage people to pvp

seriously, come on, it's written on the tin guys.

if you want your event tickets so badly, just get over yourself, acknowledge that you're bad at pvp and accept a death or two to another player in order to get them.

seriously, the sheer cognitive dissonance at play here.

-it's a pvp event
-i don't like pvp
-i want event tickets
-???
-all logic and reasoning falls apart

AvalonRanger

Why people are interested in event ticket so much?
Is there any of important reward which is worth to do with such a heavy risk?

Pet creature? or special mount creature? or stupid looking costume?
I don't need anything of those things.

chessalavakia_ESO

Amottica wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

But I think that during PvP events in Imperial City and Cyrodiil ZOS should give PvE players an option to go there and become immune to PvP attacks and, obviously, incapable to do PvP. Only Daedras could attack, and be killed by PvE players.

What is the point of having a PvP event if we are going to essentialy make it so we can eliminate PvP?

In other words, this will not be happening. We know this because Zenimax has not only avoided making this event PvE friendly, there was once a means to gain tickets in this event via PvE without going into Cyrodiil or IC. They eliminated that option and now require us to go into a PvP environment to get those tickets.

BTW, it is easy to pretty much avoid PvP and get the tickets from Cyrodiil. Many posts have explained how to do it and it works very well.

Have a good day.

The point would be trying to produce a more enjoyable experience. 20% of the events in game so far this year/on the PTS have been this style of PvP event. If 20% of the events for the year were playing Tales of Tribute or doing Trials I don't think people that didn't like them would exactly be overjoyed either.

If you had a PvE Cyrodiil and IC for the event, players that had never done the PvE content in those areas would have a new experience.

You'd also likely have a better PvP experience for the event for most newer players to PvP if you turned the PVE questing off in the PVP zones (You want players to feel like they can kill other players without being the bad guy), put everyone's mount up to 60 speed for the event, guide players to more full but not overfilled servers , and have the quests for the PvP section involve more PvP slanted options that aren't super hard to do so that even someone that is bad can progress (Ex: Do x amount of damage/siege damage/repairing/healing/take x amount of damage).

FlopsyPrince

The intent of this event is to feed the PvP players those who are easy targets so they can make up for PvP unhappiness otherwise.

It has been this way for a long time and too many just seem to get their thrills from killing questers. How much fun can we have?!?!?

FlopsyPrince

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Why people are interested in event ticket so much?
Is there any of important reward which is worth to do with such a heavy risk?

Pet creature? or special mount creature? or stupid looking costume?
I don't need anything of those things.

Why be interested in tickets at all with that view?

Saying "skip the tickets" is very shortsighted, at best.

ZOS put stuff behind the tickets that is NOT PvP related. Thus the tickets have value for many, even those who hate getting repeatedly killed by others in this event. Especially when those others seem to only be playing to kill others, not to really carry out PvP.

And no, stealthing to kill questers at questing points is not "player vs. player" it is "player vs easy target".

It is also a good way to push players to ragequit. And while many of you may say "great!" to that idea, no game will exist if enough players do that.

Plenty of other annoyances in the game already.

doesurmindglow

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Especially when those others seem to only be playing to kill others, not to really carry out PvP.

And no, stealthing to kill questers at questing points is not "player vs. player" it is "player vs easy target"..

Ok so I dunno how to explain that Player Versus Player is defined as fighting other players with the intent of killing them, but that's a good first thing to know. The second thing is that to know players are making an active choice whether or not to be "easy targets."

Every PVPer engages in a degree of target selection. A solo PVPer will kite out a larger group of opponents so they can isolate a smaller number of targets before lining up their burst damage. A casual group will regularly take on objectives and targets that are poorly defended. An smaller but experienced group will often choose to engage larger, more casual groups. A bomber will look for a tightly stacked group that isn't expecting them at the time, whether casual or experienced. A stealth ganker will look for a "squishy," low health target before a tanky one, usually. And yes, a sport duelist will sometimes seek out fights with other sport duelists, depending on their mood at a given time.

Anyway, understanding target selection is an important step toward improving at PVP. PVPers regularly take issue with other PVPers' target selections for one reason or another, but we've all accepted a very long time ago that there is nothing we can do about it and adapt accordingly.

There are ways a player can make themselves a less easy target if they want to, @VaranisArano has written up a fantastic guide on it, but his is not the only one. They can also choose not to read it and not do those things, which will mean accepting that being an easy target means they'll probably be losing a lot of fights in PVP, which is fine too.

But nowhere is there anyone asking for the dozens of PVE events that happen year-round to be made easier because they'd prefer to just not learn how to play them.

correctamundo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Why people are interested in event ticket so much?
Is there any of important reward which is worth to do with such a heavy risk?

Pet creature? or special mount creature? or stupid looking costume?
I don't need anything of those things.

Why be interested in tickets at all with that view?

Saying "skip the tickets" is very shortsighted, at best.

ZOS put stuff behind the tickets that is NOT PvP related. Thus the tickets have value for many, even those who hate getting repeatedly killed by others in this event. Especially when those others seem to only be playing to kill others, not to really carry out PvP.

And no, stealthing to kill questers at questing points is not "player vs. player" it is "player vs easy target".

It is also a good way to push players to ragequit. And while many of you may say "great!" to that idea, no game will exist if enough players do that.

Plenty of other annoyances in the game already.

Do you have any actual statistics to back up this claim that Whitestrake is pushing ESO to extinction?

dem0n1k

RBAP28 wrote: »

Ugh....There's ten post just like this asking the same thing.

Why are there so many anti-PVP event threads that don't get closed, merged or moved? Slow day for the mods?

Vulkunne

Scaletho wrote: »

Ok, it's just an idea, an opinion, not intended to offend PvPers.

But I think that during PvP events in Imperial City and Cyrodiil ZOS should give PvE players an option to go there and become immune to PvP attacks and, obviously, incapable to do PvP. Only Daedras could attack, and be killed by PvE players.

PvErs could take only new missions specific created for them and not intended to be part of the PvP missions (except perhaps scouting and Cyrodiil own PvE missions already in place).

Imperial City main story line stays as PvP. All other IC missions could be part of PvE because... well... they ARE PvE intended. IC bosses should not be attacked by PvErs nor attack them.

Mostly PvE players are not capable to fight or defend yourselves against PvPers, whom do not stop killing anyone they see from different faction.

There is no way to differentiate a DC/EP/AD PvP from PvE player simply looking to CP points. And those players who tried to act in defensive most time are not respected, and attacked anyway.

During PvP events players which don't like/don't care/are newbies of PVP suffer to get reward boxers. A very large part of ESO players stay away from the event simply because they don't have build sets able to defend them from occasional PvP attacks.

Yeah, I know: "There are dozens of PvE events, skip one or two PvP is not a big deal". I just think it will be nice to give PvErs a chance to participate and get a decent number of reward boxes.

I think this is feasible, despite the kind of complexity. We already have something like that when someone ask another player to duel in PvE regions. Why not the inverse?

Where there's a will there's a way. But I'll be fair in that I really enjoy the eso PvP experience better than something else like New World for example.

To each their own I suppose but for those willing to learn and willing to put some work into learning the fundamentals behind combat, you will quickly find yourself able to deal with PvP issues.

Zodiarkslayer

[snip]

Or, in other words: It's a PvP event, so go forth and PvP.👍💪

[edited for baiting]

Aquelarre

I think ZOS could rework the rewards to make the PvP part more interesting for more players. Also... we need some kind of academy inside the game.

Tra_Lalan

I think the mayhem should stay as it is. And here is why:

It is the best time for every pve player to check out pvp activities, and maybe feel like it's his thing.

There are so many pvers in pvp zones during this time, that it wount be as hard as on other time of the year, you wount hit the wall so painful as on other ocasions.

RBAP28

ToRelax wrote: »

dem0n1k wrote: »

RBAP28 wrote: »

Ugh....There's ten post just like this asking the same thing.

Why are there so many anti-PVP event threads that don't get closed, merged or moved? Slow day for the mods?

[snip]

I get it, some people hate PvP, but some people that PvP hate PvE. Yet I don't see countless post about how PvPer's wish they could gank the dolmen farmers, crafting areas, etc. Why mess with literally the only event PvP gets?

I'm older and missed the whole participation trophy era. So what do I know.

[edited to remove quote]

Indigogo

I like how these always deviate quickly from only wanting event tickets, to, I actually want gear, rewards and achievements without doing the content as intended.

shadyjane62

The new pvp is here. Go top a town do two quests get ganked before you can turn them in. Bloodport to next town do two quests get ganked ... Go to the first town, turn in first quest and do two more, get ganked and bloodport to second town and turn in first two quest there.


Rinse and repeat.

Vulkunne

Indigogo wrote: »

I like how these always deviate quickly from only wanting event tickets, to, I actually want gear, rewards and achievements without doing the content as intended.

Absolutely. They want it all without having to learn anything new or put in any effort whatsoever to adapt to a different environment. I guess people are different, but if they ever gave in to this it would effectively screw over everyone else who earned what they have.

VaranisArano

RBAP28 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

dem0n1k wrote: »

RBAP28 wrote: »

Ugh....There's ten post just like this asking the same thing.

Why are there so many anti-PVP event threads that don't get closed, merged or moved? Slow day for the mods?

[snip]

I get it, some people hate PvP, but some people that PvP hate PvE. Yet I don't see countless post about how PvPer's wish they could gank the dolmen farmers, crafting areas, etc. Why mess with literally the only event PvP gets?

I'm older and missed the whole participation trophy era. So what do I know.

I occasionally see PVPers make posts like that. Sometimes it's as a parody post of these type of PVE requests. Sometimes it's serious.

What usually happens is that even the other PVPers (including me) say something like "No, those zones aren't designed for PVP, it would denigrate into nothing but ganking people instead of fun fights, and if we want fun PVP against people who willingly went there we've already got three options."

Likewise, it's honestly pretty refreshing to see how every year there's some players who are generally PVE step up during Mayhem and say something like "Hey, I'm PVE but I casually went to PVP for event tickets and it was fine. You can do it too!"

It's encouraging when everyone respects what each unique game mode is designed for.


I did grow up during part of the participation trophy era, and I don't think most of the complaining is wanting one. Rather, a repeated theme I've heard in year's past on similar threads is the idea that ESO is a video game and games should be fun. Therefore we shouldn't have to do things that aren't fun in order to get the rewards we want. That would be work. Games should always be fun.

Now, that's not how ESO works. Not at all. ESO expects that players do ALL of the content if they want ALL of the rewards. But for PVE players who enjoy dungeons and trials, it's possible to spend the majority of ESO's content having fun. The only time they have to do something they don't consider fun is three times a year during Mayhem and the IC event.

Many of these requests come down to "A game should be fun. PVP is not fun for me. If ZOS wants me to do PVP for time-locked rewards, then ZOS needs to give me something that will make it fun for me. Give me a safe passage/PVE zone/toggle/whatever so I can have fun."

Meanwhile, hordes of PVEers descend on Cyrodiil and Imperial City to get their tickets whether or not they are having fun, and so ZOS has no reason to change the event.

[edited to remove quote]

Troodon80

Scaletho wrote: »

Ok, it's just an idea, an opinion, not intended to offend PvPers.

Yeah, I know: "There are dozens of PvE events, skip one or two PvP is not a big deal". I just think it will be nice to give PvErs a chance to participate and get a decent number of reward boxes.

I think this is feasible, despite the kind of complexity. We already have something like that when someone ask another player to duel in PvE regions. Why not the inverse?

With the greatest respect for your opinion, it was one I shared many years ago, but no. The PvP portion of this game gets almost nothing in comparison. It's very easy, as several -- including myself -- have mentioned in other topics, to plan ahead for this event and do quests prior to the events starting and then turn in quests one by one, or do the scouting mission and you rarely have to even look at an enemy player. Cyrodiil is an AvA zone. End of discussion. If you want to go in there, you take that responsibility, otherwise, upon your own volition, you forfeit the tickets and boxes which come with the event.

I'm not big on PvP. I got my achievements and my AP and I rarely go into Cyrodiil or Imperial City. But if ZOS were to change Cyrodiil to be PvE friendly, I would argue in favour of making every PvE event also into overland PvP during those events so that everyone gets to participate in a game mode that they enjoy as a way to get tickets/rewards; i.e. every zone outside of major hub areas would be free for all overland PvP.

Veinblood1965

Amottica wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

But I think that during PvP events in Imperial City and Cyrodiil ZOS should give PvE players an option to go there and become immune to PvP attacks and, obviously, incapable to do PvP. Only Daedras could attack, and be killed by PvE players.

What is the point of having a PvP event if we are going to essentialy make it so we can eliminate PvP?

In other words, this will not be happening. We know this because Zenimax has not only avoided making this event PvE friendly, there was once a means to gain tickets in this event via PvE without going into Cyrodiil or IC. They eliminated that option and now require us to go into a PvP environment to get those tickets.

BTW, it is easy to pretty much avoid PvP and get the tickets from Cyrodiil. Many posts have explained how to do it and it works very well.<<<<this here.

Have a good day.

Very true, simply sign into a non-cp server and it's far far less of a hassle. Less players even at peak times especially in Cyrodiil.

Casul

Scout missions, do not run in the straight lines connecting keeps. Go around the general paths.

I have done 2 scout missions late at night, low pop server, both to opposite home keeps and never saw a single person my entire run (keep in mind we were pushed to our gates)

I am convinced people are so scared of dying they won't even make the run.

The_Lex

Every year, without fail, PvEers do their best to remove, modify, or otherwise transform the only event we get despite having a year’s worth of events for PvE.

BlueRaven

I am NOT a pvp player, but I teamed up with a few friends (also not pvp players) and did the IC story line.

It’s a shame more pve players will not experience it because of the pvp element of the area. The storyline in IC was pretty good with a real epic conclusion, I wish more people could experience it.

Ragnarok0130

Scaletho wrote: »

Ok, it's just an idea, an opinion, not intended to offend PvPers.

But I think that during PvP events in Imperial City and Cyrodiil ZOS should give PvE players an option to go there and become immune to PvP attacks and, obviously, incapable to do PvP. Only Daedras could attack, and be killed by PvE players.

I'd rather they make a PVE Cyrodiil/IC rather than have people who don't want to PVP take up valuable slots in a PVP instance. Personally I think every event should have ways for people to complete them in the way they enjoy - that goes for both the PVP crowd and PVE crowd because let's face it most events are solidly focused on the PVE players so PVP players should have a way to participate in those via PVP IMO.

BlueRaven

BuildMan wrote: »

Scout missions, do not run in the straight lines connecting keeps. Go around the general paths.

I have done 2 scout missions late at night, low pop server, both to opposite home keeps and never saw a single person my entire run (keep in mind we were pushed to our gates)

I am convinced people are so scared of dying they won't even make the run.

This is by far the easiest way to get event tickets in cyrodiil. I made a vampire and gave them speed buffs so they can stay in stealth or even become invisible the whole time.