Upcoming PTS Combat & Balance Adjustments

Rittings

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

...this will allow us to give a lot more love to Heavy Attacks...

Could start by making them work...

nwilliams2107b16_ESO

Seriously what about Templars? Please revert jabs animation and the damage nerf, don’t want to play without it

FluffWit

This is absolutely half baked and absolutely will not go well.

You don't make combat balance changes the last week of a pts cycle. Because it doesn't give the testers a chance to test anything.

Just accept this was poorly thought out, tear up the whole damn thing, give yourselfs a few months to reassess things then give yourselves a few months to actually do things.

I'm not placated. I'm not resubbing. This is still a hot mess.

xylena_lazarow

So a bunch of classes and skills were ruined just to end up where we started, but with more spam?

Savina

Might be time to consider putting all DLC and Chapter updates on hold and focus on actually fixing what we have. There is a breaking point for both company and customer, and we are quickly approaching both. Could we just stop this out of control train wreck right here and take a breath on both sides.

As customers we would appreciate not having our game experience up-ended every 90 days, and for those actively participating on the PTS they are up-ended more like every 60 days.

As a company you really need to fix what is already in place before the end customer decides that it just isn't worth it, IF this is what the final product is meant to be.

Consider stopping the train and fixing what we already have. Hit the reboot next year in Q3 with this DLC. That gives you one year to actually work on updates that address the problems we have instead of adding new ones.

I know I can go one year without content updates if it means a better working product for all of us. This game has something for everyone PvE, PvP, Housing, Crafting, Antiquities, Trading, Fishing, Role Play, Dungeons, Questing, Justice, Trials and of course the latest Tales of Tribute, of which none are trouble free, could we get back to basics here and get what we have working and bug free.

Seems counter productive to keep adding somewhat broken content on top of already somewhat broken content.

It really is as simple as fix what you have!

Hurbster

Steady on, if we don't all universally love everything to do with this game I can see more disgruntled tweets coming from the people who 'plan' this sort of thing.

Sandman929

If ZOS really wants to change something big, how about this: the stats for damage and the stats for healing should never be the same stats.

Destai

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, one note regarding the content changes. I previously stated we wanted to gather as much information as possible to gauge the impact of combat changes on the content in the game. This is a multipronged approach which is a collaboration between the Combat, Dungeon and QA Teams as well as player feedback, logs and captures.

Given the overwhelming response and the wealth of information we have collected, we felt confident that we could make these content changes in order to ensure that the game maintained the challenge players are used to without a major shift in difficulty.

Again, thanks to all the community members that have logged on to PTS, played, reported and provided feedback, logs and video captures.

@ZOS_Finn , respectfully, the scope of this patch is too large to release in this timeframe. There's too many areas that will be impacted by this, and thousands, thousands of comments here, Twitter, and reddit are saying don't do this. I get that you guys are being flexible here and blunting some of the edges, but the overall point is people are tired of change. I appreciate you trying to ameliorate this situation, but that damage control wouldn't be necessary if ZOS weren't embarking on these changes to begin with.

offbymyself

Lowering damage across the board and then lowering boss HP to accommodate for the damage nerf is hardly the way to address a power creep. Healing nerfs (while boss damage remains the same) could potentially decrease damage output since supports have to focus more on the amount of heals on their bar and maybe top end groups can't get away with solo healing as many fights as easily, but that doesn't help the mid to lower tier players by any means. If anything, it'll make high damage content more difficult for the majority to achieve.

I'm at least glad to see that LAs are going back to scaled damage, but players shouldn't be in fear of being punished for learning how to play your game. The people who spend 8+ hours a week raiding and pushing themsleves to be better in raid environments will obviously be better at the game's combat than those who spend 8+ hours a week role-playing, questing, and doing housing. They shouldn't be considered in the same regard as they don't share the same goals, and you shouldn't need a full uprising of your player base to know when changes will effectively kill your game. It's sad to say but your raiding communities (low, mid, and end game tiers) do not trust you at this point. You've made promises and don't follow through. On multiple occassions, you've upset the majority of your player base based on a dream that you have for the game instead of what your players actually want for the game. You force us to redo our builds every 6 months or so. When it's not our builds, it's other overhauls like with the drastic CP changes and then nerfs. We understand the game is going to change over time, but maybe it's time to start playing your own game to see what the average groups are dealing before proposing such massive changes.

For example, you didn't want us using vamp skills in Bahsei HM. Well, did you actually test the damage yourselves before the trial went live to make sure a raid team full of developers were able to complete the content as desired? Doubtful.

spacewolfplays

ZOS, i will never understand why you think you need to keep to strict 1 month PTS cycles....

You set the rules, if you need to take longer, you can take longer. People will be pissed either way.

Elsonso

.

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, one note regarding the content changes. I previously stated we wanted to gather as much information as possible to gauge the impact of combat changes on the content in the game. This is a multipronged approach which is a collaboration between the Combat, Dungeon and QA Teams as well as player feedback, logs and captures.

Given the overwhelming response and the wealth of information we have collected, we felt confident that we could make these content changes in order to ensure that the game maintained the challenge players are used to without a major shift in difficulty.

Again, thanks to all the community members that have logged on to PTS, played, reported and provided feedback, logs and video captures.

ZOS_Finn , respectfully, the scope of this patch is too large to release in this timeframe. There's too many areas that will be impacted by this, and thousands, thousands of comments here, Twitter, and reddit are saying don't do this. I get that you guys are being flexible here and blunting some of the edges, but the overall point you are missing as the combat lead is people are tired of change. I appreciate you trying to ameliorate this situation, but that damage control wouldn't be necessary if you weren't embarking on these changes to begin with.

FYI: Finn is the dungeon lead, not the combat lead. The combat lead is Wheeler.

katorga

Light and Heavy Attacks will once again scale with your stats, just to a lesser extent than before. Overall, there will still be a nerf on Light Attack damage, but this will allow us to give a lot more love to Heavy Attacks and will be less stark of a difference.

Continuing to tweak the 8.1.0 in reaction to the uproar is worse than just saying it was a bad idea and starting over.

There are a ton of unwarranted buffs and nerfs in 8.1.0 related to the core changes ZOS is now trying to back away from (without losing face). They just need to start over.

renne

It's funny how you do all this and nerf the hell out of constellations so people don't do any damage anymore yet Occult Overload still exists in the game utterly untouched lmaooooooo

Not to mention the permanently bugged status effects in PvP. Today I have 49,710 days woth of poisoned and of burning, yesterday I had 3 that of burning, pluss poisoned, plus haemorrhaging and this kind of thing has been around for literally years without being fixed. But now you're "fixing" templars out of the game, and all the other terrible changes.

MidniteOwl1913

willymancer69 wrote: »

Will there be an adjustment to healing?

Week one PTS, our bread and butter heal skill, Illustrious, was nerfed. The new Illustrious morph on PTS extends the skill uptime versus having increased healing (live). With the 2s HoT being reverted, we did not see a reversion of this HoT morph in parallel.

Will this be changed? Radiating got nerfed, which is a staple of dungeons and mobile trial bosses. Will the Radiating nerf be reverted?

Healing and harder content will continue to be less accessible until one off, high impact changes like theseare reverted.

Yes this! I need my mobile heals! Normal dungeons have a lot of headless chickens I can't help with a static heal!

MerguezMan

Dear ZOS team,

I'm an Xbox player and unfortunately unable to participate in PTS cycles.

My current goal and challenge on live version of ESO is to complete, I mean fully complete, the DLCs I already bought, before investing more time and money into the game, which is already quite time-consuming.

Could you please confirm that all those changes that people cry about around this forum will not make said goal harder ?

More specifically, can you please confirm that once this update goes live, doing "veteran vateshran no death" achievement is possble on stam DK 2H-bow build, on xbox european server on saturday night (which is not so great for lag, but the only moment of the week I get enough playtime) ?

Please note that so far, I have not been able to beat vet vateshran final boss, which resists to me more than the wort bosses of another game from this year whose name start with "Elden" and has ring in it and is supposedly harder than ESO.

If you can't confirm, please make sure to at least test such things on each class, all PC addons disabled, and lag conditions emulated on your test servers, before shipping next updates.

edwardskrod

drill wrote: »

All this talk of “raising the floor” over the years and it’s amazing to me that you’ve never thought to simply provide better information to newer players on how to improve their gameplay.

I totally agree.

I played for 6 months before I realized I was hitting 30k on a trial dummy because I wasn't light attack weaving or using any kind of rotation. I was able to get through all the base game content while playing this way. This is a problem. The base game is so easy compared to Vet dungeons or trials. It wasn't until I thought about running a trial and wanted to see my DPS that I began investigating how to maximize it by learning to play the game.

A few months later, I hit for 95k. I was able to join a prog team and can enjoy nearly all the features of the game, despite having a small child and a demanding career as a software engineer at Microsoft.

The increase to my dps didn't happen because Zenimax nerfed DPS in a strange attempt to level the playing field. It happened because I learned how to perform a rotation.

If I were a Program Manager at ZOS, I would push for a few simple things that would make a huge impact:

• I'd create a forward link server that makes it easy to create easy-to-remember links to tutorials and educational videos to help the player base.
• I'd make videos for each class, showcasing a simple rotation.
• I'd make an easy to explain video on Light Attack weaving, rather than leaving it up the player to find community-produced videos on YouTube.

I'd add something like this to the loading screen:
"Did you know that you can drastically improve your dps by adding light attacks in between your skills? Navigate to http://eos.com/improvedps

Healing can be challenging! Learn how to perform a simple, yet effective rotation for healing in dungeons and trials at http://eos.com/howtoheal


This is a "knowledge gap," not a "power gap."

edwardskrod

An honest question to the Program Managers at ESO. How often do you perform customer interviews?

My team at Microsoft is responsible for the installation experience of Visual Studio, with an emphasis on ensuring that our Enterprise customers are up to date and secure.

Our Program Managers routinely speak to actual customers. Sure, telemetry is absolutely necessary. But nothing helps to invalidate hypotheses by speaking to actual customers face to face.

renne

edwardskrod wrote: »

An honest question to the Program Managers at ESO. How often do you perform customer interviews?

My team at Microsoft is responsible for the installation experience of Visual Studio, with an emphasis on ensuring that our Enterprise customers are up to date and secure.

Our Program Managers routinely speak to actual customers. Sure, telemetry is absolutely necessary. But nothing helps to invalidate hypotheses by speaking to actual customers face to face.

They do surveys every now and then. Never seen anything come of it though.

Remathilis

So let me see if I have this right...

There were two goals in this update:
1. Simplify rotation though lower emphasis on weaving damage and longer lasting skills to reduce constant application and bar swap.
2. Lower damage and healing numbers to make content less easy to burn though/skip mechanics on.

The problem is that both goals conflict with each other and worse, synergize to make the experience miserable to play, to the point of losing progress.

So now, ZoS has been forced to choose which is the more important goal as both together is impossible without additional massive overhauls to everything. Naturally, the choice of simplification is the one sacrificed for the lower ceiling.

So if I'm reading everything correctly, the current goals are;
1. Lower light attack damage somewhat to deemphasize but not remove weaving, while keeping it a factor in high DPS rotation and allowing heavy attacks to be viable again.
2. Return timers back to 10/15/20 splits, thus keeping the current level of timer watching and barswap.
3. Lower the general damage and healing across content to make content that is currently being burned though more viable and closer to it's original intent.
4. Lower top end content difficultly back to it's current levels of difficultly or progress.

The net gains are that top tier players are still playing the same but thier numbers will be lower on the logs and mid tier challenges will a little more difficult again. Meanwhile lower tier players will have most of the same struggles as before (weaving, barswap, timer monitoring) and now has a harder time dealing damage.

This feels like you've moved the deck chairs around the Titanic. Everything is the same, except the numbers are now smaller.

Iselin

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, for Dungeons and Trials, we’ll be reducing the health of all bosses on Veteran difficulty and above in the final PTS patch to account for the overall DPS loss. For Trials specifically, we’ll be reducing the health of all Champions and Bannermen on Veteran difficulty and above. The reduction in health for each boss will vary from encounter to encounter, but the results should be that each Dungeon and Trial boss fight will provide a similar challenge to what is on Live currently. The Trial bannermen and Champions provide a challenge in their own right so we felt additional adjustments were warranted.

Thanks for hearing this and adjusting to compensate because without those changes you were making the entry into vet content and trials tougher for those who are on the cusp on live currently... for those at the current upper levels of the "floor" as it were.

renne

Remathilis wrote: »

So let me see if I have this right...

There were two goals in this update:
1. Simplify rotation though lower emphasis on weaving damage and longer lasting skills to reduce constant application and bar swap.
2. Lower damage and healing numbers to make content less easy to burn though/skip mechanics on.

The problem is that both goals conflict with each other and worse, synergize to make the experience miserable to play, to the point of losing progress.

So now, ZoS has been forced to choose which is the more important goal as both together is impossible without additional massive overhauls to everything. Naturally, the choice of simplification is the one sacrificed for the lower ceiling.

So if I'm reading everything correctly, the current goals are;
1. Lower light attack damage somewhat to deemphasize but not remove weaving, while keeping it a factor in high DPS rotation and allowing heavy attacks to be viable again.
2. Return timers back to 10/15/20 splits, thus keeping the current level of timer watching and barswap.
3. Lower the general damage and healing across content to make content that is currently being burned though more viable and closer to it's original intent.
4. Lower top end content difficultly back to it's current levels of difficultly or progress.

The net gains are that top tier players are still playing the same but thier numbers will be lower on the logs and mid tier challenges will a little more difficult again. Meanwhile lower tier players will have most of the same struggles as before (weaving, barswap, timer monitoring) and now has a harder time dealing damage.

This feels like you've moved the deck chairs around the Titanic. Everything is the same, except the numbers are now smaller.

The thing is, even if they'd left it as it was, by nerfing almost other sources of damage, weaving remained and remains as important as ever, because it's guaranteed damage. If anything, it's made it even more important.

Astin_nds

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We wanted to take a minute to give you some insight into some additional changes coming to the PTS affecting combat and balance.

As we’ve continued reading through your feedback from testing these changes, we determined that some of our goals were actively competing with each other and not reaching the target audiences in ways we intended. We ultimately want to help raise the floor and reduce the ceiling in regard to DPS output, while simultaneously improving class balance in some problematic areas. So far, this has led to competing changes that have hurt some groups of players despite us stating we didn’t want to actively harm playstyles with any particular change; we are committed to following through with additional ways to mitigate these issues while still meeting our intended goals.

With all that said, in next week’s PTS patch you’ll find that we will be re-evaluating some of the adjustments to Light and Heavy Attacks so they are a bit less drastic. Light and Heavy Attacks will once again scale with your stats, just to a lesser extent than before. Overall, there will still be a nerf on Light Attack damage, but this will allow us to give a lot more love to Heavy Attacks and will be less stark of a difference.

There will also be a handful of tweaks to some class abilities in next week’s PTS patch, based on the feedback we’ve received, but the majority of these will come in the final PTS patch. Note that the focus of these adjustments will be on Magicka-based Nightblades, Wardens, and Sorcerers.

Additionally, for Dungeons and Trials, we’ll be reducing the health of all bosses on Veteran difficulty and above in the final PTS patch to account for the overall DPS loss. For Trials specifically, we’ll be reducing the health of all Champions and Bannermen on Veteran difficulty and above. The reduction in health for each boss will vary from encounter to encounter, but the results should be that each Dungeon and Trial boss fight will provide a similar challenge to what is on Live currently. The Trial bannermen and Champions provide a challenge in their own right so we felt additional adjustments were warranted.

We recognize there has been a lot of concern surrounding the combat changes currently on the PTS, and we truly believe with some continued adjustments and iterations, this is the best course of action for the long-term health of the game. We’re also working on a brief Q&A that should help address some of the more general questions surrounding these changes. Thanks for reading and, of course, taking the time to provide so much in-depth and valuable feedback.

And the damage of the monsters? If you want to raise the "floor", and you do not touch the damage of the monsters with the amount of healing nerfed, you are only shortening the life of the monsters and not raising the floor, because they will try to heal and die. This change is half done, the DAMAGE remains to be touched, it is more important than the monster's own life, if you can heal and survive taking 1 more minute and winning, it is better than dying at 30s...... but in addition to the normal monsters or mini boses nothing is said? , there is someone who does a lot of damage and has great life... so someone "new" will die sooner than now, will receive more damage than now and will do less damage than now.... To play the PVE, you have to touch ALL pve, monster health (ALL), and monster damage (ALL), don't create halfway upgrades.

renne

Astin_nds wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We wanted to take a minute to give you some insight into some additional changes coming to the PTS affecting combat and balance.

As we’ve continued reading through your feedback from testing these changes, we determined that some of our goals were actively competing with each other and not reaching the target audiences in ways we intended. We ultimately want to help raise the floor and reduce the ceiling in regard to DPS output, while simultaneously improving class balance in some problematic areas. So far, this has led to competing changes that have hurt some groups of players despite us stating we didn’t want to actively harm playstyles with any particular change; we are committed to following through with additional ways to mitigate these issues while still meeting our intended goals.

With all that said, in next week’s PTS patch you’ll find that we will be re-evaluating some of the adjustments to Light and Heavy Attacks so they are a bit less drastic. Light and Heavy Attacks will once again scale with your stats, just to a lesser extent than before. Overall, there will still be a nerf on Light Attack damage, but this will allow us to give a lot more love to Heavy Attacks and will be less stark of a difference.

There will also be a handful of tweaks to some class abilities in next week’s PTS patch, based on the feedback we’ve received, but the majority of these will come in the final PTS patch. Note that the focus of these adjustments will be on Magicka-based Nightblades, Wardens, and Sorcerers.

Additionally, for Dungeons and Trials, we’ll be reducing the health of all bosses on Veteran difficulty and above in the final PTS patch to account for the overall DPS loss. For Trials specifically, we’ll be reducing the health of all Champions and Bannermen on Veteran difficulty and above. The reduction in health for each boss will vary from encounter to encounter, but the results should be that each Dungeon and Trial boss fight will provide a similar challenge to what is on Live currently. The Trial bannermen and Champions provide a challenge in their own right so we felt additional adjustments were warranted.

We recognize there has been a lot of concern surrounding the combat changes currently on the PTS, and we truly believe with some continued adjustments and iterations, this is the best course of action for the long-term health of the game. We’re also working on a brief Q&A that should help address some of the more general questions surrounding these changes. Thanks for reading and, of course, taking the time to provide so much in-depth and valuable feedback.

And the damage of the monsters? If you want to raise the "floor", and you do not touch the damage of the monsters with the amount of healing nerfed, you are only shortening the life of the monsters and not raising the floor, because they will try to heal and die. This change is half done, the DAMAGE remains to be touched, it is more important than the monster's own life, if you can heal and survive taking 1 more minute and winning, it is better than dying at 30s...... but in addition to the normal monsters or mini boses nothing is said? , there is someone who does a lot of damage and has great life... so someone "new" will die sooner than now, will receive more damage than now and will do less damage than now.... To play the PVE, you have to touch ALL pve, monster health (ALL), and monster damage (ALL), don't create halfway upgrades.

^ This. If people can't kill bosses in the time they're doing ticks of damage that outpace the 2 second healing ticks that have not been addressed at all, it doesn't really matter if they have slightly less health.

athena9205

agreed, healing should remain 1 sec HOTs. In many trials now, we have both healers wearing buff gear rather than healing gear so the healing already is less than it could be. With less HOT numbers the healers will be forced to go back to healing gear to make up for the loss and that will lose the buffs needed to keep the damage levels optimum.

ajkb78

You've listened. Thank you. How much you've listened I guess we'll find out tomorrow, but the intent you state seems OK.

I'm not sure that it achieves your stated aim of raising floors though.

What you've described is a nerf to damage, healing and boss health. That's fine, and if the nerf to boss health only applies to more recent bosses then it will help to standardise difficulty. I doubt the changes will be enough to completely level things, but if PB and suchlike end up being about as difficult as they are on live then that's fine.

If you want to raise the floor though, nerfs to individual damage is the wrong approach. The ceiling in this game comes from borrowed power in the form of group buffs. If you want to rein in the power of elite groups and still allow disorganised pugs to be more successful then the balance should shift so that *individual power* increases, while *borrowed power* is cut right back.

But honestly, after the fiasco of this PTS cycle I'd advocate a different approach. Don't make any changes next patch excpet for minor tweaks to try to rebalance the various things that have been thrown out of balance. But going forward, next patch present your ideas for the following PTS cycle before just throwing them at us. Give the experienced players here a chance to comment on them before they even go to PTS. And do that every PTS cycle from now on. Yes, it means that there's a 6 month cycle between "combat change is proposed" and "combat change goes live" but it means there's a much better chance the changes will have been through enough player scrutiny that they will be well received when they do finally arrive.

anvilbert

Gina Kevin ZOS in general, I feel like I have been talking to my 3 yr old grandson here. A little life lesson that translate into every aspect of everything. There is always someone who is better at doing some things than others. You cannot program equal hand eye cordination,speed or reflex mobility into a game. Raising the floor and lowering the ceiling is nonsense it wont do anything. You have been told by your players many times how to achieve balance. The game is at a great place now . Separate the pve from the pvp, do not cross over gear from one to the other. Dueling only in designated areas pve gear in pve instances, pvp gear in pvp instances. BALANCE ACHIEVED. ONCE AGAIN YOU CANNOT PROGRAM SKILL LEVEL INTO GAME. Everyone's skill level is not the same YOU can't fix that.

Greeed2025

iPeriphery wrote: »

*This post is not meant to be taken with hostility or harassment towards ZoS. This is just the cold hard truth.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam You guys are totally missing the point though. I'm not trying to be mean at all, but for this level of a mistake that's about to happen, you really need to take this into consideration or the game's future is bleak.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF U35 IS GOING TO DO IN THE LONG RUN! THIS JEOPARDIZES YOUR GAMES WHOLE FUTURE... IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?

The changes are so out of touch with what the community actually wants. We're your customers, if we're telling you that the direction you're going with the game is WRONG, then its flat out WRONG.

You create the game that the PLAYERS enjoy, so that THEY can fuel YOUR life by providing YOU the income that YOU NEED to live, which is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT during these tough times in the world lately. It's literally your JOB.... Biting the hand that feeds you is NEVER a wise idea.

The dev's can think the community is whiney all they want, but at the end of the day; This game is so much fun and is so valuable and enjoyed by your players, I being one of them.

Please stop trying to ruin our fun, for the sake of some vague design vision that doesn't even make sense and just further diverges from the original intended path that actually had a clear vision.

Over the 8 years I've played this game, the amount of change is rediculous; and the sad part is that besides cosmetic and QoL Features added, it's only been a downgrade. ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE COMBAT.

As a PVP Player, I can only DREAM of the fun unique class skills and identity that used to exist in this game.
I especially loved the balance around the time of Imperial City's release.

Mostly because there weren't so many skill-less sets that carry you in PVP with procs or BS effects like Dark Convergence that can suck up entire groups.

It sucks getting beat by a worse player than you in PVP when they only win because of their gear set carrying them.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that the hybridization changes allow for a fun and unique playstyle that many of us were PINING for during the release of the game, because of how many different abilities and unique combinations that worked there were, and hybridization at that time (Especially since almost all the good skills scaled off of magicka at that point); but even though it was a great idea, I think that it was poorly executed.

And if you guys would be honest and just listen to our feedback, we could work together to make this game better.

Which would inveitably in turn make you guys MORE MONEY because if you have a happy playerbase with good quality content and a FUN FAST PACED UNIQUE CLASS PLAYSTYLE ENIVORNMENT; you don't need to do much else except explore your creative freedom coming up with new areas and content for the game instead of GUTTING and OVERHAULING the combat system EVERY 3-6 MONTHS.

It's like the old saying, "Happy Wife, Happy Life".

You are essentially married to us (The Playerbase), and we are your wife.

[snip]


When it's so unanimous that Even PVE and PVP communities are on the same page, you know that it must be a mistake.

We don't want to wait until U36 for you guys to realize you made the wrong decision and then backtrack and un-nerf everything.

I've been playing since beta and have seen this happen TIME and TIME AGAIN.

You can only continue alienating and berating your player base for so long before they leave. Nobody asked for ANY of these HORRIBLE changes.

Unless you completely scrap U35, you won't have a game left to make money from.

WAKE UP ZOS! Before it's too late, and honestly it might already be. If update 35 goes live this game will be just as dead as New World.

What about GUTTING every single class, and their class identity is fun? We play this game to have FUN, not be stressed by having the rug pulled from underneath us every 3-6 months.

Stop trying to balance the game around the top 1% of Raiders and start balancing PVE and PVP seperately.

Who cares if the TOP 1% are so good at the game that they are pulling huge DPS? Obviously they put the time and effort into gaining that skill, and that is deserved and should be rewarded. It literally effects NOBODY else.

If you are trying to make the game more ACCESSIBLE then why in the bloodyhell are you NERFING EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD? Especially INCREDIBLY SHORTSIGHTED changes like Nerfing the whole Sorcerer class because of 1 busted set like Savage WW OR an even better example, nerfing twisted path for NB's because you have this obsession with making EVERYTHING standardized and homogenized.

Making every class the same except for maybe 2 or 3 abilities is SO SO SO BORING. Stop ruining what was unique about the game. The original combat team was on the right path and had an actual vision that was fun. This game has turned into a bastardization of it's former glory.

Stop trying to come at this with a spreadsheet and math mentality.... Spreadsheets and data CANNOT DETERMINE WHAT IS FUN OR ENJOYABLE FOR YOUR PLAYERBASE, and sure as hell WILL NOT keep your customers happy.


It's kind of sad how fast the player base can see the glaring issues in the changes you guy propose every single time there is a patch like this."

Do you know why this is?

You should also try playing your own game at a high level. Because it's pretty obvious that you don't, and that's not a good thing.

If you actually play your game, then you learn first hand from a players perspective. This allows you to have a better grasp on what changes should ACTUALLY be made for your game, as well as having a better fundamental understanding of your game.

This in turn allows you to have the skillset required to do your JOB better and more EFFECTIVELY.

ZoS, I love you guys for making my favorite game of all time, but it's seriously time for you to get a reality check; because if this patch goes through you won't have a job for much longer.

Mark my words, Update 35 will be the beginning of the end for ESO; and it will be a worse disaster than Warlords of Drenor/Shadowlands for WoW, or the dumpster fire that was New World.

Be Wise and learn from other gaming company's failures. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam

washbern

iPeriphery wrote: »

*This post is not meant to be taken with hostility or harassment towards ZoS. This is just the cold hard truth.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam You guys are totally missing the point though. I'm not trying to be mean at all, but for this level of a mistake that's about to happen, you really need to take this into consideration or the game's future is bleak.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF U35 IS GOING TO DO IN THE LONG RUN! THIS JEOPARDIZES YOUR GAMES WHOLE FUTURE... IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?

The changes are so out of touch with what the community actually wants. We're your customers, if we're telling you that the direction you're going with the game is WRONG, then its flat out WRONG.

You create the game that the PLAYERS enjoy, so that THEY can fuel YOUR life by providing YOU the income that YOU NEED to live, which is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT during these tough times in the world lately. It's literally your JOB.... Biting the hand that feeds you is NEVER a wise idea.

The dev's can think the community is whiney all they want, but at the end of the day; This game is so much fun and is so valuable and enjoyed by your players, I being one of them.

Please stop trying to ruin our fun, for the sake of some vague design vision that doesn't even make sense and just further diverges from the original intended path that actually had a clear vision.

Over the 8 years I've played this game, the amount of change is rediculous; and the sad part is that besides cosmetic and QoL Features added, it's only been a downgrade. ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE COMBAT.

As a PVP Player, I can only DREAM of the fun unique class skills and identity that used to exist in this game.
I especially loved the balance around the time of Imperial City's release.

Mostly because there weren't so many skill-less sets that carry you in PVP with procs or BS effects like Dark Convergence that can suck up entire groups.

It sucks getting beat by a worse player than you in PVP when they only win because of their gear set carrying them.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that the hybridization changes allow for a fun and unique playstyle that many of us were PINING for during the release of the game, because of how many different abilities and unique combinations that worked there were, and hybridization at that time (Especially since almost all the good skills scaled off of magicka at that point); but even though it was a great idea, I think that it was poorly executed.

And if you guys would be honest and just listen to our feedback, we could work together to make this game better.

Which would inveitably in turn make you guys MORE MONEY because if you have a happy playerbase with good quality content and a FUN FAST PACED UNIQUE CLASS PLAYSTYLE ENIVORNMENT; you don't need to do much else except explore your creative freedom coming up with new areas and content for the game instead of GUTTING and OVERHAULING the combat system EVERY 3-6 MONTHS.

It's like the old saying, "Happy Wife, Happy Life".

You are essentially married to us (The Playerbase), and we are your wife.

[snip]


When it's so unanimous that Even PVE and PVP communities are on the same page, you know that it must be a mistake.

We don't want to wait until U36 for you guys to realize you made the wrong decision and then backtrack and un-nerf everything.

I've been playing since beta and have seen this happen TIME and TIME AGAIN.

You can only continue alienating and berating your player base for so long before they leave. Nobody asked for ANY of these HORRIBLE changes.

Unless you completely scrap U35, you won't have a game left to make money from.

WAKE UP ZOS! Before it's too late, and honestly it might already be. If update 35 goes live this game will be just as dead as New World.

What about GUTTING every single class, and their class identity is fun? We play this game to have FUN, not be stressed by having the rug pulled from underneath us every 3-6 months.

Stop trying to balance the game around the top 1% of Raiders and start balancing PVE and PVP seperately.

Who cares if the TOP 1% are so good at the game that they are pulling huge DPS? Obviously they put the time and effort into gaining that skill, and that is deserved and should be rewarded. It literally effects NOBODY else.

If you are trying to make the game more ACCESSIBLE then why in the bloodyhell are you NERFING EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD? Especially INCREDIBLY SHORTSIGHTED changes like Nerfing the whole Sorcerer class because of 1 busted set like Savage WW OR an even better example, nerfing twisted path for NB's because you have this obsession with making EVERYTHING standardized and homogenized.

Making every class the same except for maybe 2 or 3 abilities is SO SO SO BORING. Stop ruining what was unique about the game. The original combat team was on the right path and had an actual vision that was fun. This game has turned into a bastardization of it's former glory.

Stop trying to come at this with a spreadsheet and math mentality.... Spreadsheets and data CANNOT DETERMINE WHAT IS FUN OR ENJOYABLE FOR YOUR PLAYERBASE, and sure as hell WILL NOT keep your customers happy.


It's kind of sad how fast the player base can see the glaring issues in the changes you guy propose every single time there is a patch like this."

Do you know why this is?

You should also try playing your own game at a high level. Because it's pretty obvious that you don't, and that's not a good thing.

If you actually play your game, then you learn first hand from a players perspective. This allows you to have a better grasp on what changes should ACTUALLY be made for your game, as well as having a better fundamental understanding of your game.

This in turn allows you to have the skillset required to do your JOB better and more EFFECTIVELY.

ZoS, I love you guys for making my favorite game of all time, but it's seriously time for you to get a reality check; because if this patch goes through you won't have a job for much longer.

Mark my words, Update 35 will be the beginning of the end for ESO; and it will be a worse disaster than Warlords of Drenor/Shadowlands for WoW, or the dumpster fire that was New World.

Be Wise and learn from other gaming company's failures. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Yeah. In many cases I think it's too late. I begged for communication from ZOS. When it came I think I was even more disappointed. Nothing they said has been the actual truth, I feel. Asking us to have faith in their plan and then frantically backpeddling in the last weeks of testing shows that there was a plan to be had. How can we trust them now? Most people see this and the exodus has begun. Unfortunately ESO is not as big as WOW and every person leaving is a big deal.

I really have no idea how this breach of trust can be repaired and playerbase brought back.

Greeed2025

The Jabs nerf is too brutal

ajkb78

washbern wrote: »

Yeah. In many cases I think it's too late. I begged for communication from ZOS. When it came I think I was even more disappointed. Nothing they said has been the actual truth, I feel. Asking us to have faith in their plan and then frantically backpeddling in the last weeks of testing shows that there was a plan to be had. How can we trust them now? Most people see this and the exodus has begun. Unfortunately ESO is not as big as WOW and every person leaving is a big deal.

I really have no idea how this breach of trust can be repaired and playerbase brought back.

It's easy. They need to propose combat changes here on the forum the cycle before they appear on PTS,and actively listen to the feedback. if the update 35 week 1 changes had been presented here back in April / May, all the stupidity of them would have been pointed out ahead of time and we could have gone in to week 1 of PTS with something much more like what tomorrow's change will probably look like and smoothed it out a bit further during PTS. I mean, ideally they would also act like there is some kind of overarching plan for where combat needs to get to and stay permanently, but failing that just giving the community more time to help them shooting themselves in both feet again like they've done this patch would be a start.