Nightblade tank is dead

Iron_Blurr

Dark cloak heals for less than half of green dragon blood. Cauterize has execute scaling on top of that. Oh and dk gets a damage shield that grants major mending on top of that while NB does not.

NB tank is dead.

The imbalance is so massive just compare these tank ultimates..

NB tank has bolstering darkness. 10% damage mitigation for 200 ulti.

DK gets magma shell.. 97% damage mitigation for 200 ulti. Oh and magma gives a massive shield to others and corrosive gives you 100% armor penetration too.

How is this fair?? Where is the BALANCE??!

sharquez

Well in case it wasn't painfully obvious by now there is none. DK is the favored son and has been forever. Can you say Dynamic Ult Batswarm?

ccfeeling

No fair at all
Adapt or quit

Lykeion

Once again, dev is trying to kill the diversity of the different classes. You are NB, you should go to be a dps, we gave you op guaranteed crit surprise attack, and change your cloak to garbage, so you will not think about being a tank; you are DK, you should be the best tank, we gave you op survival ability, hope you do not have one day to think about being a healer. This kind of thing has been happening dominated by zos

I've always felt that the potential for different classes to play different roles is one of the biggest joys of playing ESO, and dev has destroyed that joy time and time again.

code65536

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

NB tank has bolstering darkness. 10% damage mitigation for 200 ulti.

But... but... that 10% mitigation can apply to all your allies too! That makes it totally worth it! /s

Remember the days when Bolstering gave 30% mit to allies and 60% mit to the caster? Pepperidge farm remembers. And now the Dark Cloak nerf in the name of PvP.

I've said before and I'll say it again: ESO's attempt to balance PvP and PvE together is its Original Sin. It's nonsensical. PvE enemies don't react or adapt and instead compensate with massive stats that are orders of magnitude above what is seen in PvP. They are so fundamentally different, and this fool's errand of trying to balance the two together is the cause of so many problems in this game.

Lykeion

code65536 wrote: »

ESO's attempt to balance PvP and PvE together is its Original Sin.

Totally agree. The only way to solve the balance dilemma is to make separate pvp and pve versions for skills and sets. pvper think dev is balancing based on pve and for pveer vice versa. Neither side benefits from this ambiguous balancing tactic, both sides are suffering

xylena_lazarow

sharquez wrote: »

Well in case it wasn't painfully obvious by now there is none. DK is the favored son and has been forever. Can you say Dynamic Ult Batswarm?

DK was mediocre in PvP for years until the recent buffs. There's no consistency, never has been.

This is an idiotic nerf to NB in PvP too where brawler NB was actually looking good for a minute.

ccfeeling wrote: »

Adapt or quit

Yes, sometimes the best way to adapt to pointless nerfs and an unfun metagame is to quit.

emilyhyoyeon

code65536 wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

NB tank has bolstering darkness. 10% damage mitigation for 200 ulti.

But... but... that 10% mitigation can apply to all your allies too! That makes it totally worth it! /s

Remember the days when Bolstering gave 30% mit to allies and 60% mit to the caster? Pepperidge farm remembers. And now the Dark Cloak nerf in the name of PvP.

I've said before and I'll say it again: ESO's attempt to balance PvP and PvE together is its Original Sin. It's nonsensical. PvE enemies don't react or adapt and instead compensate with massive stats that are orders of magnitude above what is seen in PvP. They are so fundamentally different, and this fool's errand of trying to balance the two together is the cause of so many problems in this game.

was the nerf because of PVP? I don't think I've ever heard any pvper thinking it needs to be nerfed (at least within the past year minimum)

Especially considering the PTS double nerf from week 1 to week 3. Who gave feedback on PTS that the first nerf wasn't enough? I almost can't believe it

Remathilis

Lykeion wrote: »

Once again, dev is trying to kill the diversity of the different classes. You are NB, you should go to be a dps, we gave you op guaranteed crit surprise attack, and change your cloak to garbage, so you will not think about being a tank; you are DK, you should be the best tank, we gave you op survival ability, hope you do not have one day to think about being a healer. This kind of thing has been happening dominated by zos

I've always felt that the potential for different classes to play different roles is one of the biggest joys of playing ESO, and dev has destroyed that joy time and time again.

Yup. Each class has a role:
Dragonknight: tank
Nightblade: DPS
Templar: healer
Sorcerer: crafter

wulfgen

"Yup. Each class has a role:
Dragonknight: tank
Nightblade: DPS
Templar: healer
Sorcerer: crafter"

[/quote]

Remathiilis... I literally LOL'd and spit my coffee on my keyboard when I read that.
/bow Good Job!

And how true that is!

Sandman929

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

NB tank has bolstering darkness. 10% damage mitigation for 200 ulti.

But... but... that 10% mitigation can apply to all your allies too! That makes it totally worth it! /s

Remember the days when Bolstering gave 30% mit to allies and 60% mit to the caster? Pepperidge farm remembers. And now the Dark Cloak nerf in the name of PvP.

I've said before and I'll say it again: ESO's attempt to balance PvP and PvE together is its Original Sin. It's nonsensical. PvE enemies don't react or adapt and instead compensate with massive stats that are orders of magnitude above what is seen in PvP. They are so fundamentally different, and this fool's errand of trying to balance the two together is the cause of so many problems in this game.

was the nerf because of PVP? I don't think I've ever heard any pvper thinking it needs to be nerfed (at least within the past year minimum)

Especially considering the PTS double nerf from week 1 to week 3. Who gave feedback on PTS that the first nerf wasn't enough? I almost can't believe it

I don't think anyone in pvp wanted it nerfed...I've wanted nightblade to be something other than a boring build-up to spectral bow for ages, but dark Cloak was nice as is.

Dagobertfuk

Im talking from pvp perspective, with halfed heal

Dark Cloak how it is on actual PTS will be a Skill nobody will use ever again. A nerf for no *** reason. Like it was stronger than other Heals. Vigor was way stronger. And since vigor gets major resolve its even less worth it, to even think about using it as a Nightblade.

My Nightblade in Cyrodiil on live servers with 40k HP gets 2,6k hps with dark cloak. After the first Dark Cloak Nerf in pts week one or two, i had to be 50% Player HP to get the heal value from live servers. Right now on pts after the second nerf, i have to be at 10% player HP to get almost old value of 2520 hps. I did the math with the pts maximum of 14%. Even Vampire Drain, a skill nobody with more than 2 braincells is using in PvP to heal up, heals more than actual PTS Dark Cloak.

Any reason why anyone should use PTS Dark Cloak instead of another healing ability other than for style? I can't think of any. Mainly because every other healing ability heals me more by a frightening margin, no matter how much HP I have, except at 10% where Dark Cloak get it old healing value.
Image when i dont have 40k HP. Hard to imagine but it gets even worse rofl.

Dark Cloak nerf makes it totally useless in PvP. With all that crosshealing going on and hybridscaling everyone is anyway running around with high weapon/spellpower. Those stats even make post pts Vigor stronger than pre pts Dark Cloak.

Altrough Vigor will heal for a lot more and grant more uptime on Major Resolve than Dark Cloak with the NB passive Shadowbarrier does with full heavy armor setup.

Full heavy armor NB Major Resolve 16s vs vigor's 20s per cast and more healing than pre PTS Dark Cloak.

And overall a skill that only really works, when i am already with both legs in the grave, and pretty far into execute range to eat 400% extra dmg from enemy execute's, is a total abilityslot waste

code65536

The other thing to consider, for PvP, is that anyone using Dark Cloak is doing so at the expense of the invisibility cloak.

vgabor

code65536 wrote: »

The other thing to consider, for PvP, is that anyone using Dark Cloak is doing so at the expense of the invisibility cloak.

Exactly. The vast majority of the nightblades using the invisibility morph, the healing morph is a dead end in pvp with very very few nightblade there using at all, it's just too much of the sacrifice to give up the unique skill of invisibility if you're a nightblade.

Dagobertfuk

vgabor wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The other thing to consider, for PvP, is that anyone using Dark Cloak is doing so at the expense of the invisibility cloak.

Exactly. The vast majority of the nightblades using the invisibility morph, the healing morph is a dead end in pvp with very very few nightblade there using at all, it's just too much of the sacrifice to give up the unique skill of invisibility if you're a nightblade.

The majority of the magicka and all hybrid nightblades are using dark cloak and all the brawlerblades aswell. With those its not the vast majority with invisibility morph anymore.

Why do you bring that up? Probably easier to justify that ZOS could let dark cloak behind beeing totally useless.

Dagobertfuk

code65536 wrote: »

The other thing to consider, for PvP, is that anyone using Dark Cloak is doing so at the expense of the invisibility cloak.

Thats everyone own opinion what he likes more and what is better for the own playstyle. Invisibility morph for dodge stuff and re engage or healing morph to facetank enemys.

I always used Dark Cloak since its healing, because i dont like the coward playstyle. I never would use invisibility morph. Especially not now since dots continue ticking while invisibility and statuseffects expose you, while the dozens of other skills also do. There is no skill in the game what got more counters than invisibility cloak.

edward_frigidhands

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The other thing to consider, for PvP, is that anyone using Dark Cloak is doing so at the expense of the invisibility cloak.

Thats everyone own opinion what he likes more and what is better for the own playstyle. Invisibility morph for dodge stuff and re engage or healing morph to facetank enemys.

I always used Dark Cloak since its healing, because i dont like the coward playstyle. I never would use invisibility morph. Especially not now since dots continue ticking while invisibility and statuseffects expose you, while the dozens of other skills also do. There is no skill in the game what got more counters than invisibility cloak.

I am a bit surprised that there has been no dev response regarding the feedback towards this change, not even an explanation regarding why it was done.

sbr32

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

I am a bit surprised that there has been no dev response

lol

Dagobertfuk

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The other thing to consider, for PvP, is that anyone using Dark Cloak is doing so at the expense of the invisibility cloak.

Thats everyone own opinion what he likes more and what is better for the own playstyle. Invisibility morph for dodge stuff and re engage or healing morph to facetank enemys.

I always used Dark Cloak since its healing, because i dont like the coward playstyle. I never would use invisibility morph. Especially not now since dots continue ticking while invisibility and statuseffects expose you, while the dozens of other skills also do. There is no skill in the game what got more counters than invisibility cloak.

I am a bit surprised that there has been no dev response regarding the feedback towards this change, not even an explanation regarding why it was done.

Im not.

GloatingSwine

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

DK gets magma shell.. 97% damage mitigation for 200 ulti. Oh and magma gives a massive shield to others and corrosive gives you 100% armor penetration too.
!

Whilst I do think NB tank has lost out massively, Magma Shell isn't 97% mitigation. It means you can't take more than 3% of your max health per hit, which usually works out to about 1200. So it's good against large individual hits but fast smaller hits still do most or even all of their damage.

ZeroDPS

Lykeion wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

ESO's attempt to balance PvP and PvE together is its Original Sin.

Totally agree. The only way to solve the balance dilemma is to make separate pvp and pve versions for skills and sets. pvper think dev is balancing based on pve and for pveer vice versa. Neither side benefits from this ambiguous balancing tactic, both sides are suffering

this!

emilyhyoyeon

The reason why it's a bit frustrating to me when people bring up separating PVE and PVP (which I'm not at all against) in regards to this change is because it kind of implies the nerf was because of PVP and therefore to some extent reasonable in a PVP context but not PVE context.

I cannot stress enough how NOT overpowered this skill was in PVP. It was balanced in PVP fine.