I am so frustrated with the state of this game

FlopsyPrince

psychotrip wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"If, like, a thousand people who play endgame content can hit 100k+ DPS, good for them."

I think this is a very profound point.

Clawing down damage done just because it's 'high' makes no sense. 'High' is arbitrary.

I think we havent been given the real reason. Something else is driving it. I wonder about costs- increasing server cost or analytics cost? Falling mid tier player numbers and a mis diagnosis why?

I also think the real reason most of these changes are being made are coming from the accounting department at ZOS, not from the combat team.

DINGNDINGDING.

I think I said the same earlier but it got snipped. It's not JUST marketing, obviously, but you're getting at the real issue here: resources and priorities not being where the players, or even the devs, need them to be.

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

"If, like, a thousand people who play endgame content can hit 100k+ DPS, good for them."

I think this is a very profound point.

Clawing down damage done just because it's 'high' makes no sense. 'High' is arbitrary.

I think we havent been given the real reason. Something else is driving it. I wonder about costs- increasing server cost or analytics cost? Falling mid tier player numbers and a mis diagnosis why?

I also think the real reason most of these changes are being made are coming from the accounting department at ZOS, not from the combat team.

I think the most likely culprit is the technology and server infrastructure department and not the finance and accounting department. Extending dot durations, making LA weaving less meaningful and so on all seem to point to reducing the number of calculations the server needs to make every second in my opinion. I think they cited “accessibility” as a perceived easy PR win to make us say “yay ZoS!” and didn’t count on the near universal rejection of patch 35 from the general playerbase.

It's both. It all comes down to misallocation of resources which makes solving actual problems even harder than they need to be

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

psychotrip

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

FlopsyPrince

psychotrip wrote: »

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

Capitalism would be more focused on meeting needs and providing solutions to maximize the money gain. Frew MMO companies do that, in reality, however. Many will even argue that the companies should not listen to their customers, a very bad idea.

Thankfully ZOS is making at least some efforts toward listening more recently.

ThirdEye_PULSE

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

Capitalism would be more focused on meeting needs and providing solutions to maximize the money gain. Frew MMO companies do that, in reality, however. Many will even argue that the companies should not listen to their customers, a very bad idea.

Thankfully ZOS is making at least some efforts toward listening more recently.

Idk man. I thought they were listening. I thought people saying they were just placating us were being negative in the face of a positive development. Then i saw today's PTS. Same old sameness. They havent changed. They once scrapped an idea because the community hated it so much (LA nerfs). Their not even willing to go that far this time.

p4l4mu7

13k hours over 7 years and I will cancel my esoplus after all these years, not only because they are constantly adding these terrible major changes but also they have been really disrespectful and unprofessional towards playerbase.

psychotrip

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

Capitalism would be more focused on meeting needs and providing solutions to maximize the money gain.

I remember when I used to believe this, lol.

In many cases, maximizing profit means providing the absolute minimum they can get away with, while milking the customer as much as they possibly can. Providing an enjoyable product is entirely ancillary.

I posted the link earlier, but emerging research is suggesting that AAA live service games dont need to be "fun" at all; They just need to manipulate people into playing / spending more. It's like the carrot on the stick metaphor. Thats how these companies operate.

So I stand by my initial statement 100%.

Few MMO companies do that, in reality, however

Why do you think that is?

pklemming

There is a pretence of listening only. I do actually think some people in ZOS are concerned about this patch and have expressed concerns, but have been overridden. It boils down to the same thing, though; nothing we say matters.

This patch will make the game more annoying and teach bad dps practice in the game. Gone are the 1 button dungeon dps. Now we will have the 1 button heavy resto dps, with zero incentive to learn or understand weaving.

They turned an interesting and dynamic combat system in to something where watching paint dry would be more engaging.

No, people don't need to do that, but new players will and with a lot of old players going dye to the patch, it may well become the majority of PC combat.

They effectively created the most boring combat experience in any MMO, by far, and doubtless this will be reflected in future game reviews.

For me, I had stupidly given them a chance to change on week 5 PTS. Yeah....

FlopsyPrince

psychotrip wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

Capitalism would be more focused on meeting needs and providing solutions to maximize the money gain.

I remember when I used to believe this, lol.

In many cases, maximizing profit means providing the absolute minimum they can get away with, while milking the customer as much as they possibly can. Providing an enjoyable product is entirely ancillary.

I posted the link earlier, but emerging research is suggesting that AAA live service games dont need to be "fun" at all; They just need to manipulate people into playing / spending more. It's like the carrot on the stick metaphor. Thats how these companies operate.

So I stand by my initial statement 100%.

Few MMO companies do that, in reality, however

Why do you think that is?

Because we don't live in a truly capitalistic society and what most have been taught is "capitalism" is far from it. Too much government control for that.

Though anyone who thinks any outside force could make everything right is not really thinking things through. Would we really want the government defining most parts of all MMOs, including ESO? It might stop some practices, but would lead to many other limitations.

Though this gets outside the scope of the game, so I will leave it there.

psychotrip

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

Capitalism would be more focused on meeting needs and providing solutions to maximize the money gain.

I remember when I used to believe this, lol.

In many cases, maximizing profit means providing the absolute minimum they can get away with, while milking the customer as much as they possibly can. Providing an enjoyable product is entirely ancillary.

I posted the link earlier, but emerging research is suggesting that AAA live service games dont need to be "fun" at all; They just need to manipulate people into playing / spending more. It's like the carrot on the stick metaphor. Thats how these companies operate.

So I stand by my initial statement 100%.

Few MMO companies do that, in reality, however

Why do you think that is?

Because we don't live in a truly capitalistic society and what most have been taught is "capitalism" is far from it. Too much government control for that.

Though anyone who thinks any outside force could make everything right is not really thinking things through. Would we really want the government defining most parts of all MMOs, including ESO? It might stop some practices, but would lead to many other limitations.

Though this gets outside the scope of the game, so I will leave it there.

...Sure, bud.

nb_rich

Vylaera wrote: »

I'm so frustrated with this game as a long time Elder Scrolls fan. I started playing ES back in 2011 when Skyrim came out. I got it for Christmas, and fell in love with the game. I sunk easily 8000 or more hours into it over the next few years, and I fell in love with its lore, story, worldbuilding, books, quests, enemies, combat, races, etc.

Then I went back to play Oblivion, and I loved it just as much. Sunk several thousand more hours into it, and loved its world, lore, characters, I fell in love with the Empire and really started learning earnestly the lore of the series and started digging much much deeper and became an absolute superfan of the series.

Then I played Morrowind. What a stunningly mastercrafted game. Though that admittedly wasn't my first impression, as I didn't know its mechanics and genuinely thought my flea market xbox edition copy of the game was messed up, and that I should try to get it refunded, because I couldn't land a hit on the kwama forager, which killed me, on my way to Balmora from Seyda Neen. But I learned more about it, came back, and fell in love with it too, and it's still my absolute favorite single player RPG game of all time, no question.

And then, in 2015, ESO came out for the Xbox One, and I purchased my copy and played it with a friend from high school. I initially didn't understand anything about the game, as I had never played an MMO and didn't understand some of the really weird design decisions like how magic was totally relegated to staff types and class specific abilities. I never liked that, I still don't, but ESO was the only ES game in town, as Skyrim had basically exhausted its fun-ness to me, having replayed it countless times, so I learned to deal with ESO's arbitrary MMO-y design.

But now 7 years later, and thousands of dollars spent on new DLC, Chapters, ESO Plus, Crown purchases, etc. Update 35 comes to me as a total slap in the face, as not just a more casually focused player of the game, but as a member of the game's community. I don't play ESO to meta chase, I don't play ESO to scorepush in competitive PvE, - admittedly I do PvP, however - but I'm not the type that finds the endgame really fun, and I was comfortable with my 50k dps that I could pull on a trial dummy which sufficed for most vet DLC dungeons, and more than enough for random normals to get transmute crystals.

But for some reason, ZOS is so hyperfixated on the 5% of the playerbase that can reach obscene levels of damage, that everyone else has to get punished to try to reel the top tier in. This sledgehammer balancing is so totally unneccesary. If, like, a thousand people who play endgame content can hit 100k+ DPS, good for them. They have fun doing that, and they should be allowed to. I, on the other hand, the other 95% of the playerbase, cannot do that. So now my off meta build that I was able to have decent fun with in some midgame challenging content, am now locked out of that due to sledgehammer balance philosophies from the combat team, and the insistence that the top tier has to be brought down - and as a result of either negligence, outright intentionality, or simply not understanding how their own game works and how their own players play - us along with them, but to a much more punitive degree, because we do not have such already huge numbers to compensate with, and if our damage goes down, it hits the floor.

Something has to give.

I don't do trials with my off-meta cryomancer warden, nor do I expect to. Trial content exists for people who meta chase and power game. And they should have their end of the game left unmolested. That is what they find fun. That's not what casual players find fun. Not being able to do trials with our roleplay builds is not the contention casual fans have with the game. We do not want the endgame community to be kneecapped and treated like class enemies so that we can then be told that this is being done in our name to lower the ceiling so that we aren't so disparate in power from the endgame. We don't endgame because we don't want to endgame. We are totally satisfied staying in our corner of the game.

Moving on from there, even as a mostly casual player, the constant changes every three months is so frustrating to me when all I want to do is log in, roleplay, furnish a house, make some new outfits for my character, do some quests, take some screenshots. Maybe I log in to my Altmer Magicka Templar who spanks in PvP for some competitive fun (who I also roleplay as a thalmor agent when I'm in the mood for that flavor of RP). As a result, I have to spend a month of my time preparing for each new update because all of my builds on all 10 of my characters are garbage every time the dev team decides to change things for the sake of changing things. And I have to re-itemize, I have to improve my new gear, farm dungeons incessantly for transmute crystals, I have to take time out of my day to plan out a build that fits with my characters' aesthetics and in-universe RP skillsets. It's so frustrating as a loyal player who's been subbed nonstop for the past 2 years, and a consistent player for the past 7 years.

When does it end? When can each corner of the community be left unmolested to play how they want to? Why do the devs insist on constant micromanagement to make sure that no one is having actual carefree fun from patch to patch. This game feels like a responsibility now and I'm so tired of it. I want to play an Elder Scrolls game. That's why I'm here.


On top of this, I'm someone who only uses a quarter of her available toolkit - because I'm roleplaying a character with an in-universe skillset and have been shoehorned, as an example, into playing warden in order to do frost damage, and not even very good frost damage at that. I do not use the animal skills, because I'm not a druid, and using mushrooms and vines to heal is not what a standard mage does. Furthermore, in ESO, if I want to deal frost damage most effectively, I'm gimping myself on several layers. I have druid skills I do not use because that's not what my character uses in-universe, and ice magic is inherently less powerful than fire in ESO due to MMO balance decisions. This is extremely frustrating for me as well.

If I wanted to play a frost mage in Skyrim or Oblivion or Morrowind, I would spec into Destruction, and use frost spells. They did the same amount of damage as fire and lightning, with some notable exceptions like Nords' frost resistance combined with their prevalence in Skyrim, making Ice maybe a less than ideal choice in TES V, but that was a world issue that you could compensate for, not an innate quality of frost magic. In Oblivion, Cyrodiil, Ice magic was just as viable of an option. And I was not forced to pick a predefined class with druid skills tacked on along with it. I could spec into restoration and Alteration, conjuration too, and make a standard pure mage who would fit right in with the mages guild. Each damage component did the exact same damage, with some added tertiary bonus, such as fire costing less magicka, Lightning draining magicka from the target, and frost draining stamina from the target. They were actually balanced. They are not in ESO.

I'm not necessarily saying that classes should be done away with, though I personally would like that, but players shouldn't be shoehorned into playing specific classes in order to be good in certain niches like frost damage with warden and lightning with Sorcerer. It's arbitrary. Physical weapons no not have these problems and class limitations.

However, I do think if classes were to be opened up to be customized, where you pick three class skill lines at character creation rather than picking a predefined class, the classes could be balanced much healthier and easily. If the dev team needs something to spend their time on, perhaps looking at an overhaul of the class system would be a good idea. It would of course get a ton of blowback, but it could absolutely be done in a way in which players retain their current playstyles and choices and aesthetics, and the game, nor its playerbase, would be harmed. But getting into those kinds of what-ifs is not really the point of this post. That's something for another day.


Just to wrap up my thoughts, this game is extremely frustrating and I, and many others, are tired of it. Between sledghehammer changes, damage reductions without adjusting content, constant developer micromanagement of things that don't need to be micromanaged, arbitrary changes, and arbitrary design philosophies. It's a perfect storm all at once with U35 and I, and a lot of other people, are just exhausted with it.

The problem is the end game community involves majority of content creators so they will always care about them before the average player. Also the 5% of players you mentioned hitting high damage do not like changes at all. Its so bad in this community because people will say no to a change with no reason as to why. Only excuse i ever hear is its going to affect there dps they worked so hard on hitting a dummy that does not move lol.

This needs to change and ZOS needs to start thinking of the rest of the community before these content creators and people that complain. Most these people like content creators play other mmo and make content on them anyways do its not like they are only loyal to ESO.

A crazy stat I found today on a website (not sure how up to date it is) is that ESO has over 20 million users/accounts (even advertises this stat when im on playstation) yet only has a little over 200k average active users. This is only 1% which means they need to change up how they approach things and make updates that make sense instead of thinking of the people that complain for nothing as these peoples input is driving away millions of players. Keep in mind ESO is on more platforms then most MMOs and a lot of other MMos have more active users while having less accounts created.

A great solution would be to have in game polls about updates they are considering in the game so everyone can vote. Unfortunately these forums are full of the people that do not like change and a lot of players that play casually have no clue about how to get on these forums (I only recently found out I need to submit a ticket to get a invite)

joerginger

Shihp00 wrote: »

[snip]

I doubt this very much, this sounds like a very convoluted way to go about things. I thought ZOS had realized that hardly annybody apart from the top x % was gettinng high nmumbers and that the majority of players never vennture into any trials or veterann content. At least that's what I remember from their originnal "mission statement".

The only complainers ZOS always listen to are those complaining about items and gear sets and other classes' skills. Since they're very happy to nerf things, such complaints are usually acted upon right away. After all they need to introduce new sets every three months.

[edited to remove quote]

Darkstorne

Well, my Light Attack StamSorc build is definitely dead. And now my alt, a MagDen wielding a greatsword because I enjoy playing battlemages in TES games is also getting the message loud and clear with the Winter's Revenge destro staff change.

Okay ZOS, you win. I understand. This game is not for fun RP builds. I waited until the final round of patch notes to see if you would reverse course, but you're clearly just doubling down with decisions like Winter's Revenge. The game is not for me any more. I'll check the forums in another 3-6 months to see if future patches are course-correcting, but until then my sub is cancelled and I'll be spending time in other games.

Shihp00

joerginger wrote: »

Shihp00 wrote: »

[snip]

I doubt this very much, this sounds like a very convoluted way to go about things. I thought ZOS had realized that hardly annybody apart from the top x % was gettinng high nmumbers and that the majority of players never vennture into any trials or veterann content. At least that's what I remember from their originnal "mission statement".

The only complainers ZOS always listen to are those complaining about items and gear sets and other classes' skills. Since they're very happy to nerf things, such complaints are usually acted upon right away. After all they need to introduce new sets every three months.

I've never once complained about anything related to 'Gameplay' in this game. As an active player(casual or not) Ive gone through all the major changes for years even if I didn't agree with them(no-proc sets in pvp etc.) and yet they managed to make the most damaging changes from listening to the "Weaving" complaint[snip] Im only going through threads now cause this [snip] is just so funny to watch.

[edited for baiting, profanity bypass & to remove quote]

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

MorganaBlue

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This happens in a great many companies. They fail to consider their customers and only focus on the performance of their systems.

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I am not saying if ZOS is doing this completely, but noting it is common across fields.

Exactly. Like I said before: welcome to capitalism AAA gaming.

This is just what happens when executives and shareholders try to squeeze as much blood from a stone as they can. In the long-run, it never ends up being good for anyone but the executives themselves, who run a product into the ground and move on to the next.

Only way we can push back is by understanding what's going on, and acting accordingly.

Capitalism would be more focused on meeting needs and providing solutions to maximize the money gain. Frew MMO companies do that, in reality, however. Many will even argue that the companies should not listen to their customers, a very bad idea.

Thankfully ZOS is making at least some efforts toward listening more recently.

Idk man. I thought they were listening. I thought people saying they were just placating us were being negative in the face of a positive development. Then i saw today's PTS. Same old sameness. They havent changed. They once scrapped an idea because the community hated it so much (LA nerfs). Their not even willing to go that far this time.

They never scrapped the light attack weaving nerf, just decided not to include it in that particular patch. I knew this would be coming sooner or later: For context, it was the Greymoor Patch 6.0.0
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522289/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-0

and Brian Wheeler's comment once the PTS cycle concluded, bottom of the thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517545/pts-patch-notes-testing-ideas-for-light-heavy-attacks-in-combat

amgame308_ESO

Is there a light attack weaving guide in the ESO tutorials?

Lebkuchen

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Arunei Just wanted to follow up on your post. We have shared this feedback with the team and they are also reading feedback from other sources regarding players voicing their thoughts and concerns around combat. While we don't have anything to report here right now, we wanted to highlight that feedback is being shared, seen and noted in conversations internally.

It's funny how people here misunderstand this post and all the other posts like this, and give thumbs up

Nobody said "the team" (whoever that is) would take any part of this forum serious. Nobody said they would work with the information we are giving them. Nobody said they would try to understand what we are whining about. Nobody said they appreciate our contributions. Nobody ever said sorry for not being able to tell us what is wrong with the performance (especially in in PvP). Nobody is giving us real information about anything. We beg for being heard, while we keep paying, and nothing comes back. Except bans and [snips] and [edits]...

Just try to read it again, and try to focus on the words that are so carefully selected. This means nothing. Except that nobody is willing to talk to us.

Casdha

I'll be honest, I only skimmed the pages between the original post to here but I still have to make a post myself because I agree with almost everything you @Vylaera had to say. I will say that the fact you spent even an hour "dummy humping" has me beat on the willingness to keep up with the changes in this game.

I've only spent around 3k hours on this game since launch and most of that was in the first year (maybe 2) of this game. I have the maximum number of character slots available for 1 account (what is it 16 now, I don't know) but I have only created 8 characters to date, 5 of them in the first months of launch and then a few as new classes were made available. Now I only play with 2 of them and of the original 5, 2 of them have never been played beyond the first zone. The 6 I don't play have been used as mules for years now.

As far as the other Elder Scrolls games go, I started with Oblivion on 360 and then PC and I started Skyrim on PC (my first Steam game because I was forced to by the publisher) and had to move to 360 due to giving myself tendonitis in my right wrist due to playing it so much. The reason was I had to switch to a controller because I couldn't play with a mouse anymore (Ive since went back to PC thanks to buying gaming mouses). I can totally believe the hours you spent on those games because I've owned about every version made for those games and that doesn't even cover getting into modding them on PC.

I believe the only reason I play ESO any at all now (and most can't say this) is I just can't bring myself to quit completely being as I had such a good time being in private beta before launch and was in the initial group picked to test it full time when most everyone thought they were only doing Weekend Betas. If it were not for that fact and the sense of nostalgia it gives me I probably wouldn't have been here past year 3.

Now I only play around 2 or 3 weeks at a time around Chapter and Year end story DLC times and this last year I didn't play Deadlands until after Christmas because I didn't want to redo my character's CP yet again and I still haven't on 6 of my characters (mules). I also let my ESO+ sub lapse and didn't renew it until the last second before this last chapter launch.

I'm wondering if next year will be the year I finally give up.

MorganaBlue

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho

joerginger

Lebkuchen wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Arunei Just wanted to follow up on your post. We have shared this feedback with the team and they are also reading feedback from other sources regarding players voicing their thoughts and concerns around combat. While we don't have anything to report here right now, we wanted to highlight that feedback is being shared, seen and noted in conversations internally.

It's funny how people here misunderstand this post and all the other posts like this, and give thumbs up

Nobody said "the team" (whoever that is) would take any part of this forum serious. Nobody said they would work with the information we are giving them. Nobody said they would try to understand what we are whining about. Nobody said they appreciate our contributions. Nobody ever said sorry for not being able to tell us what is wrong with the performance (especially in in PvP). Nobody is giving us real information about anything. We beg for being heard, while we keep paying, and nothing comes back. Except bans and [snips] and [edits]...

Just try to read it again, and try to focus on the words that are so carefully selected. This means nothing. Except that nobody is willing to talk to us.

To be honest, I was wondering about the positive reactions myself. To me it seemed more like a very polite way of saying "sorry folks, this was mentioned to others at the company, but nobody cares".

fred4

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thank you for your thoughts here, @Vylaera. Appreciate the time taken to highlight your history with Elder Scrolls/ESO and your frustrations around how U35 impact you as a roleplayer. We'll continue to reference experiences like yours as we continue studio conversations about combat and reviewing additional player feedback.

Could ZOS clarify what's on the table and what will never be on the table? @Vylaera mentioned that they would rather there were no classes. Is the dissolution of the class system something that ZOS are working towards?

As far as I'm concerned, ZOS have already dissolved magsorc's class identity in PvP (after a long period of that class weathering the storm). Templar appears to be next. The damage loss of Sweeps hurts beginning PvE templars, but it will hurt melee templar in PvP much more.

I agree with large portions of @Vylaera's post. I share the change fatigue. I especially agree with playing in your own corner of the world. I do not feel entitled to earn every achievement, unless I work for it. Some things - vet DLC trials - I don't care to do at all (thus far).

I fundamentally disagree that "play as you want" should be advertised as much as it has, nor that it should be the ultimate goal of combat balancing. It's fundamentally at odds with endgame, especially vet trials, where group coordination is the whole point. It's fine for low-end content, because that content is easy. Once you get into more difficult content you have to start paying attention to how the game actually works. I was stuck in vMaelstrom for 3 years initially, knowing nothing and this being my first MMO. I was briefly stuck on vVateshran's final boss when that came out. With greater experience by that time, I soon changed my build. For a friend it was as simple as switching to more suitable armor sets. Solving these puzzles is part of the game too.

amgame308_ESO

MorganaBlue wrote: »

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho[/q

MorganaBlue wrote: »

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho

They won't admit they use autohotey until you're in the clique for a while, but they eventually come clean when they get tired of failing on boss mechanics just want to burn it. Show me in the F1 in game help section on how to weave. It doesn't exist.

Agenericname

Lebkuchen wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Arunei Just wanted to follow up on your post. We have shared this feedback with the team and they are also reading feedback from other sources regarding players voicing their thoughts and concerns around combat. While we don't have anything to report here right now, we wanted to highlight that feedback is being shared, seen and noted in conversations internally.

It's funny how people here misunderstand this post and all the other posts like this, and give thumbs up

Nobody said "the team" (whoever that is) would take any part of this forum serious. Nobody said they would work with the information we are giving them. Nobody said they would try to understand what we are whining about. Nobody said they appreciate our contributions. Nobody ever said sorry for not being able to tell us what is wrong with the performance (especially in in PvP). Nobody is giving us real information about anything. We beg for being heard, while we keep paying, and nothing comes back. Except bans and [snips] and [edits]...

Just try to read it again, and try to focus on the words that are so carefully selected. This means nothing. Except that nobody is willing to talk to us.

Its really just a lot of words to say "we heard you." There isnt much more to it than that, but, since communication has been one of their bigger shortcomings, just those few words are welcomed.

They have in fact thanked us. Check the PTS feedback thread. Theres an indicator on the forum icons now to let us know when a dev or a mod responds and they responded to that one.

Giving that post a thumbs up, or in this case "agree", isnt expressing that its the panacea for all things wrong with ESO. Its saying "this is a step in the right direction."

pklemming

amgame308_ESO wrote: »

MorganaBlue wrote: »

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho[/q

MorganaBlue wrote: »

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho

They won't admit they use autohotey until you're in the clique for a while, but they eventually come clean when they get tired of failing on boss mechanics just want to burn it. Show me in the F1 in game help section on how to weave. It doesn't exist.

No one uses a macro because light attack weaving is not hard to do. it is the same muscle memory you use when playing a piano. You don't see someone coming along and pressing keys for you when doing that, right?

Casdha

pklemming wrote: »

No one uses a macro because light attack weaving is not hard to do. it is the same muscle memory you use when playing a piano. You don't see someone coming along and pressing keys for you when doing that, right?

If you wanted to compare it to a musical instrument then I'd say it is more like a guitar and a macro would be a capo which raises pitch (DPS comparison) and does so more cleanly than using just your fingers and a bar chord.

And yes you will see both used quite often even by the best players mostly depending on how well they want it to work (sound) for the content (music) being played.

Ragnarok0130

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

The customer is not always right of course, but completely ignoring them is not smart. (Or significantly ignoring them.)

I agree with your point completely. But I think the disconnect here with update 35 and why we’re consistently ignored by ZoS is the players think we are ZoS’s customers because we pay ZoS money whereas ZoS sees its customers as the shareholders so ZoS ignores us until they have no other choice.

amgame308_ESO

pklemming wrote: »

amgame308_ESO wrote: »

MorganaBlue wrote: »

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho[/q

MorganaBlue wrote: »

just stop it, dude - it is not hard to learn to light attack weave and end game players don't use macros. LOL
You're offensive to everyone who put in the time to learn.

P.S. have fun learning to medium attack weave tho

They won't admit they use autohotey until you're in the clique for a while, but they eventually come clean when they get tired of failing on boss mechanics just want to burn it. Show me in the F1 in game help section on how to weave. It doesn't exist.

No one uses a macro because light attack weaving is not hard to do. it is the same muscle memory you use when playing a piano. You don't see someone coming along and pressing keys for you when doing that, right?

https://youtu.be/aseMAEctM1s

Hawco10

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Be nice if Zos were the same to their customers - Civil and Constructive.instead, they ride roughshod all over the client base.
Thank you for your understanding

baltic1284

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

13k hours over 7 years and I will cancel my esoplus after all these years, not only because they are constantly adding these terrible major changes but also they have been really disrespectful and unprofessional towards playerbase.

Same why I stopped my ESO plus got tired of how i was being treated by Zenimax and the community overall. When Zenimax actually starts caring about the community overall and those that give this community over all a very bad reputation for bulling and such on the various subjects then I might start giving Zenimax money again till then my wallet is closed.

ThirdEye_PULSE

baltic1284 wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

13k hours over 7 years and I will cancel my esoplus after all these years, not only because they are constantly adding these terrible major changes but also they have been really disrespectful and unprofessional towards playerbase.

Same why I stopped my ESO plus got tired of how i was being treated by Zenimax and the community overall. When Zenimax actually starts caring about the community overall and those that give this community over all a very bad reputation for bulling and such on the various subjects then I might start giving Zenimax money again till then my wallet is closed.

Yup. If the people concerned about patch notes post anywhere but main forums we are called whiners. Those are the same people we are trying to help by being vocal here. ZOS say they have a thankless job. We dont even get paid for the harassment, and ZOS also expects us to spend hours parsing to give them data otherwise our input isnt valued. Who really gets the short end of the stick here? We do it for the love of the game, and get crapped on by the same people were trying to help... over and over.