Pronouns: Have Them, the Forums Should

summ0004

If people want to use them within their own circles thats fine, but I don't wish to use them or engage with them in any way within games.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Nemeliom

Magenpie wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. Something tells me that it would be used mostly to just um.. "showoff" and may even create an unpredictable and even toxic situations.

Edit:
Just a thought: what it would bring to the table ? I mean what importance it brings to the ESO forum community ? It looks to me like um... it is kinda irrelevant. It is not important. It does not matter if someone is he or she or they or whatever. We are all equal here.

I feel this too. I prefer not to know the RL details of my fellow gamers unless I know them personally in game. I don't see the need to know the country, skin colour, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation, sex or gender of anyone here. I support more representation and diversity in game* but I think here, where the real world bumps up against the ESO world, it's best to keep things as neutral as possible. And, as other people have pointed out, the signature feature allows people to express themselves already.

*fwiw - I think ESO does a pretty good job with this, with npcs and with voice actor choices.

100% this.
[snip] No need to divide the player base.

[edited for baiting]

Michae

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

My usual response when asked for my pronouns:

Well, Im too poor to afford my own pronouns so Ill just take whatever people are willing to give me

Not sure if that can fit anywhere else but in a sig?

I think the issue with the sigs is they aren't available to mobile viewers.

So to best way to solve this issue would be just to show signatures on mobile, right? I mean it's an oddly specific complaint to have really, but as I said before, I don't really have a horse in this race.

Durham

Why?

fizl101

I think its a good idea for people who want certainty on how they prefer to be identified. I've no idea if the current forum software can do it

SerafinaWaterstar

I do not see the need for this when people can add it in the signature.

Like others, I like to keep my real life private, so this should be optional if done, and not forced upon all users. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

iaminc

A place with so much toxicity as a public forum dedicated to a game doesn’t need to devote resources to it when it can’t even get the game right.

You can @ anyone in responses and use a name they have picked or use a sig , that’s all that’s needed , no need for more.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

NotaDaedraWorshipper

FluffWit wrote: »

Fairly sure it'd be more popular then Tales of Tribute and just look at how many resources they devoted to that.

I think you underestimate how popular Tales of Tribute actually is.

Androrix

[snip]

Maybe it was not intended that way, but I am not sure what any of us are adding at this point. Devs must have their own internal guidelines and, as I have said, given that pronouns can already be placed in the signature block (as many of us can do at work and as OP has done), I still don't understand what OP is even asking for.

[edited to remove quote]

whitecrow

No. Please don't bring that nonsense to the forum.

Tandor

JanTanhide wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

these forums are to talk about the game, not ourselves, I don't really see a need for this in this particular forum.

Agree. [snip]

This would be my concern. Would "optional" mean that it was optional to state your preferred pronoun, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Danikat

It might be useful for addressing the on-going misconception that the vast majority of ESO players, MMO players or gamers generally are men and women are very, very rare. (I've even seen people giving unsourced stats saying 95% men, 5% all other genders combined.)

But then I suspect the people who cling to that assumption (which as far as I know has never been true) will continue not paying any attention to pronouns shown anywhere on the forum, or insisting people are lying for one reason or another.

Also while I'm used to being misgendered online because it's been happening for over half my life it can still be confusing sometimes, even more so if the conversation is between people who know I'm a woman and people who don't, so someone saying "he said..." will throw people off.

Brrrofski wrote: »

I was one of the people in my place of work to push this forward for our email signatures. It was optional, but encouraged.

I have found this really useful in a work setting because I often need to refer to people as Mr/Ms Lastname when I've not met them and it's not clear from their name which is appropriate, so being able to check their email signature or look at their profile to find out is very helpful.

Now if only the various doctors I work with could be more consistent about including their professional title in their profile (or signature) if they want it used when addressing them.

Magenpie

Danikat wrote: »

It might be useful for addressing the on-going misconception that the vast majority of ESO players, MMO players or gamers generally are men and women are very, very rare. (I've even seen people giving unsourced stats saying 95% men, 5% all other genders combined.)

But then I suspect the people who cling to that assumption (which as far as I know has never been true) not paying any attention to pronouns shown anywhere on the forum, or insisting people are lying for one reason or another.

It really won't address that assumption. As someone already pointed out, there's no guarantee people are who they say they are on the internet anyway, and companies do their own data gathering on demographics.

I don't want to feel forced into sharing information about myself publicly online, [snip]

Online gaming has always been a great place to escape real world barriers, agendas and assumptions BECAUSE of the anonymity it can afford. I'd hate to see that eroded and it would genuinely make me less keen to play.

[edited for baiting]

Holycannoli

Why? I don't care what pronoun someone is on this forum. You are your forum name and that's it.

demonology89

This is a forum to discuss a game. This is a community of gamers first and foremost.

I don't want to be addressed by anything other than my user name or "hey fellow gamer!" And to be blunt, I don't care to address anyone else here by anything other than a user name or "hey fellow gamer!"

FelisCatus

No, thanks. It's not relevant or needed, forums all over the internet work fine without it. Use your signature line like you already are. It doesn't make sense anyway. No one will say: "yeah, I agree with her/him/they" That's not how the forums work currently anyhow. People just say: "Yeah, I agree with {username}" Or they just reply directly to the post and say if they agree/disagree? This isn't a social media platform it's a forum of a video game. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

SpacemanSpiff1

i'm all for it.

AgaTheGreat

thesarahandcompany wrote: »

I'm wondering if there even is a way, outside of the signature, to enter pronouns. If there isn't, could a mod confirm whether that's a possibility?

@ZOS_GinaBruno -- Happy to help with this. I work for a national LGBTQ+ rights org and can link to resources if they're needed. It would mean a lot and have an immediate positive impact on a lot of people.

zomg... another americanizm. Most of the whole world is not obsessed with pronouns -.-

Kalik_Gold

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Most of the whole world is not obsessed with pronouns -.-

Most of America isn't either.


edit to fix

etchedpixels

Just follow the Khajiit - this one / that one and then no one will have a problem 8)

Nemeliom

Well, we can see how this will work. [snip]
This is exactly what we are talking about.

[edited for discussion of disciplinary action]

Nestor

You can call me anything you want. As long as it is not Late for Dinner.

Danikat

Magenpie wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

It might be useful for addressing the on-going misconception that the vast majority of ESO players, MMO players or gamers generally are men and women are very, very rare. (I've even seen people giving unsourced stats saying 95% men, 5% all other genders combined.)

But then I suspect the people who cling to that assumption (which as far as I know has never been true) not paying any attention to pronouns shown anywhere on the forum, or insisting people are lying for one reason or another.

It really won't address that assumption. As someone already pointed out, there's no guarantee people are who they say they are on the internet anyway, and companies do their own data gathering on demographics.

I don't want to feel forced into sharing information about myself publicly online, particularly as part of ANY kind of political agenda, and I'd rather not be forced into taking part in anyone else's, whatever that is.

Online gaming has always been a great place to escape real world barriers, agendas and assumptions BECAUSE of the anonymity it can afford. I'd hate to see that eroded and it would genuinely make me less keen to play.

I mean among players. Companies have known for decades that it's not just men who play games (and not just teens and young adults, which is another common stereotype), because they have other ways of getting the data.

But it continues to be a common assumption among players, and influences everything from how they talk to other players to how they make suggestions and perceive decisions made by the developers. For example assuming all costumes intended for female characters need to be sexy because they're aimed at male players. (And a certain type of male players at that, there are plenty of men who play female characters they don't find sexy and don't want to be sexy.)

I realise no one's personal experience is universal, but for me having people assume I'm a man just because I'm playing ESO doesn't feel like escaping real world barriers - it feels like reinforcing the nonsensical stereotype that I cannot be both a woman and a gamer and must be faking one or the other.

Also in a more general sense I don't think it matters if the pronouns people put down match what they're legally recognised as by their government or whatever, the important thing is knowing how to refer to them.

Sync01

I have nothing against people stating their personal pronouns generally speaking, you do you. However, I don't think it's a good idea to have a function for it on the forum, more than what already exists (signatures).

Gender shouldn't matter on here, what you and others are posting should. I like that what I'm writing is judged based on *what I'm writing* and not what my gender is.
Aside from what others have already mentioned such as username on the forum and in game not being linked, and it could lead to more trolling, we also the case that most players don't post on the forums - so potentially showing that there are more females on the forum than some people think does not equal showing that there are more female players than some people think.

Danikat

demonology89 wrote: »

This is a forum to discuss a game. This is a community of gamers first and foremost.

I don't want to be addressed by anything other than my user name or "hey fellow gamer!" And to be blunt, I don't care to address anyone else here by anything other than a user name or "hey fellow gamer!"

So if I was explaining one of your posts to someone I'd say "demonology89 said that when demonology89 tried it demonology89 was told it wasn't compatible" instead of "said that she tried it..." or "said that they tried it..." or whatever?

As a one-off just using names instead of pronouns can work, but if you need to refer to a person more than once, especially within a sentence it gets very clunky.

(Pronouns are not a new thing, and include words like 'we' 'I' 'they' 'you' 'who' 'somebody' 'everyone' and 'us', basically any way of referring to someone which is not their name. Genuinely not using any is very impractical in English.)

ZOS_Kevin

Wanted to chime in here. I don't believe there is a way to display pronouns in base Vanilla software. There must be a plug-in somewhere that can enable this, but not positive on that. So we can do some investigating on that and how it would play with our other languages. If there isn't a plug-in available, we can submit the idea to Vanilla as a potential feature to build in the future.

However, as others have noted, certainly feel free to note pronouns in your signature if you feel inclined to do so. No harm in that.

TaSheen

Nestor wrote: »

You can call me anything you want. As long as it is not Late for Dinner.

Or payday!

sPark101

I vote no. They have signatures for that.

fizl101

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Wanted to chime in here. I don't believe there is a way to display pronouns in base Vanilla software. There must be a plug-in somewhere that can enable this, but not positive on that. So we can do some investigating on that and how it would play with our other languages. If there isn't a plug-in available, we can submit the idea to Vanilla as a potential feature to build in the future.

However, as others have noted, certainly feel free to note pronouns in your signature if you feel inclined to do so. No harm in that.

Thank you!

TirantLoBlanch

We all are anonymous here. I can think lots of reasons to want to preserve a way of presenting ourselves totally free of racial , gender etc discrimations because this things are now invisible. [snip]

Please, games make even bigots realize the humanitiy of others. Games create frienship even between very far ideological subjects. i have seen oit plenty of times-

[snip]

In real life or in a social web i wll not have reason to let people use whatever pronoums he wants---

Here i see it more potentially divisive than anything---

PD
I´m not an english speaker.... Fo rsome people to complicate the idiomatic question using invented pronoums is everithing but inclusive... Take it in acount too


[edited for baiting]