RIP Jabs (Please don't change jabs 7/29)

ADarklore

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

shadyjane62

ADarklore wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

I was lucky to have a nephew pay to get me subbed in two other game I already owned. So glad I was good to him as a kid.

merpins

ADarklore wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

They did say that they're going to undo the LA weave changes, and just reduce LA damage a small amount in a update yesterday. But who knows what reduce LA damage by a small amount actually means. Also said they'd fix heavy attacks, so at least heavy attack builds might be able to come back if they actually fix it. Then they already made ground dots 10 seconds again, but they did nerf the overall damage as compared to live by 9%. And it seems like they're adamant on not completely going back on their changes, as dots that stick to enemies still have the 20 second duration. They also kept the longer duration buffs, which is fine imo. And they're reducing the health of veteran and hard mode trial bosses.
They also said they're going to fix a lot of classes that they messed up in PTS week 1, but specified sorc, warden, and nightblade. Nothing about templar.

Not super happy with it. If they change templar jabs back, though, it'll convince me to be happy with it.

Firstmep

merpins wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

They did say that they're going to undo the LA weave changes, and just reduce LA damage a small amount in a update yesterday. But who knows what reduce LA damage by a small amount actually means. Also said they'd fix heavy attacks, so at least heavy attack builds might be able to come back if they actually fix it. Then they already made ground dots 10 seconds again, but they did nerf the overall damage as compared to live by 9%. And it seems like they're adamant on not completely going back on their changes, as dots that stick to enemies still have the 20 second duration. They also kept the longer duration buffs, which is fine imo. And they're reducing the health of veteran and hard mode trial bosses.
They also said they're going to fix a lot of classes that they messed up in PTS week 1, but specified sorc, warden, and nightblade. Nothing about templar.

Not super happy with it. If they change templar jabs back, though, it'll convince me to be happy with it.

Funnily enough extended ritual didnt get hotfix on ground dots and hots and still ticks every 2 seconds.
It's almost as if they forgot templar even exists.

shadyjane62

Firstmep wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

They did say that they're going to undo the LA weave changes, and just reduce LA damage a small amount in a update yesterday. But who knows what reduce LA damage by a small amount actually means. Also said they'd fix heavy attacks, so at least heavy attack builds might be able to come back if they actually fix it. Then they already made ground dots 10 seconds again, but they did nerf the overall damage as compared to live by 9%. And it seems like they're adamant on not completely going back on their changes, as dots that stick to enemies still have the 20 second duration. They also kept the longer duration buffs, which is fine imo. And they're reducing the health of veteran and hard mode trial bosses.
They also said they're going to fix a lot of classes that they messed up in PTS week 1, but specified sorc, warden, and nightblade. Nothing about templar.

Not super happy with it. If they change templar jabs back, though, it'll convince me to be happy with it.

Funnily enough extended ritual didnt get hotfix on ground dots and hots and still ticks every 2 seconds.
It's almost as if they forgot templar even exists.

That entire long post never used the word Templar once. I don't think they will do anything to fix the damage they have done to our damage, healing class identity or the jabs that have characterized our class from the becoming.

I'm too dang old to adapt to the total destruction of Templars.

Firstmep

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

They did say that they're going to undo the LA weave changes, and just reduce LA damage a small amount in a update yesterday. But who knows what reduce LA damage by a small amount actually means. Also said they'd fix heavy attacks, so at least heavy attack builds might be able to come back if they actually fix it. Then they already made ground dots 10 seconds again, but they did nerf the overall damage as compared to live by 9%. And it seems like they're adamant on not completely going back on their changes, as dots that stick to enemies still have the 20 second duration. They also kept the longer duration buffs, which is fine imo. And they're reducing the health of veteran and hard mode trial bosses.
They also said they're going to fix a lot of classes that they messed up in PTS week 1, but specified sorc, warden, and nightblade. Nothing about templar.

Not super happy with it. If they change templar jabs back, though, it'll convince me to be happy with it.

Funnily enough extended ritual didnt get hotfix on ground dots and hots and still ticks every 2 seconds.
It's almost as if they forgot templar even exists.

That entire long post never used the word Templar once. I don't think they will do anything to fix the damage they have done to our damage, healing class identity or the jabs that have characterized our class from the becoming.

I'm too dang old to adapt to the total destruction of Templars.

I feel you.
Thankfully my magplar has been a javelin and dark flare slinging ranged polar for years, so hes safe.
My main stamplar on the other hand.. yeah things are not looking good.

virtus753

Firstmep wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Jabs is still dead and I'm still upset.

I feel your pain. I'm upset too, but have done a number of things to soften the blow.


Like I'm already in another game.

Right there with you! I keep checking the forums to see if anything changes, but knowing ZOS it won't, they prefer to double-down and force changes through to say, "See, we were right" but unfortunately for players, many times they've been WRONG and then spent the next years repairing their damage without ever admitting to being wrong.

I've gone back to playing older games just waiting for other games coming out this fall. Been playing DCUO but honestly it's TOO P2W now and FFXIV is back on my radar as they've made a LOT of improvements for solo players over there- but not sure I want to get into another MMO when a few games I want to play are coming out in October-December.

They did say that they're going to undo the LA weave changes, and just reduce LA damage a small amount in a update yesterday. But who knows what reduce LA damage by a small amount actually means. Also said they'd fix heavy attacks, so at least heavy attack builds might be able to come back if they actually fix it. Then they already made ground dots 10 seconds again, but they did nerf the overall damage as compared to live by 9%. And it seems like they're adamant on not completely going back on their changes, as dots that stick to enemies still have the 20 second duration. They also kept the longer duration buffs, which is fine imo. And they're reducing the health of veteran and hard mode trial bosses.
They also said they're going to fix a lot of classes that they messed up in PTS week 1, but specified sorc, warden, and nightblade. Nothing about templar.

Not super happy with it. If they change templar jabs back, though, it'll convince me to be happy with it.

Funnily enough extended ritual didnt get hotfix on ground dots and hots and still ticks every 2 seconds.
It's almost as if they forgot templar even exists.

Both morphs of Ritual have ticked every 2 seconds for a long time now. What they need to revert is the drastic new scaling on the damage morph.

ETA: Back in 5.1.0 they noted the 2 second cadence was due to the "multi-faceted operational power this ability boasts": https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483597/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-0

I'm not sure why a purge on cast means it should tick every other second instead of every second, since it doesn't purge every tick, but there we have it.

Nevidyra

The change would have made sense if they BUFFED jabs to account for the lost tick of damage, instead of nerfing them even further.

Please either revert the changes, or give us a much-needed damage buff (like 20%) to BOTH morphs (biting jabs and puncturing sweeps) to help them outperform flurry in PvE and to help them do damage in PvP.

Thank you.

merpins

Nevidyra wrote: »

The change would have made sense if they BUFFED jabs to account for the lost tick of damage, instead of nerfing them even further.

Please either revert the changes, or give us a much-needed damage buff (like 20%) to BOTH morphs (biting jabs and puncturing sweeps) to help them outperform flurry in PvE and to help them do damage in PvP.

Thank you.

ZoS: "we heard your outcry, templars! Due to the changes made in PTS week 1, templars have been underperforming a bit more than they should. In fact, their main spammable has been dealing, on average, less damage than Flurry and its morphs. In order to fix this problem, we've opted to reduce the damage of Flurry and its morphs by 26%, to make it deal less damage than templar's main spammable. Hopefully this fixes the issues you've all been whining about. That's all I've got. ZoS, out. YEET."

silentxthreat

@ZOS_GinaBruno this is pretty much it. I'm not sure how i feel about the animation but agree jabs needs to be faster so you can weave it better. However with the damage nerf the burning light nerf jabs is no longer templars best spamable and will be replaced by base weapon skills to min/max. This really isnt cool and I thought the point was to raise to floor not delete class uniqueness. As a templar main this may actually make me take a break from eso again

renne

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

merpins

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

It does less damage than Rapid Strikes, my dude.
And the animation sucks.

renne

merpins wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

It does less damage than Rapid Strikes, my dude.
And the animation sucks.

I know, ~my dude.

As I said, they changed it to 0.8 to make it easier to weave. As I said, that's the only good thing they've ever done for templars.

That no one is going to be using it BECAUSE they nerfed it and rapid strikes is better is completely beside the point to them.

Weathur

f to the most satisfying skill in the entire game.

mmtaniac

Stamplar will be useless still ,costs are to high and resource management is worse compared to magplar where you focus only on magicka. Stamplar need changes purge should cost half half resources(more fair for stamplars) like new dk whip. Just add one stamina class burst heal. Stamina rune should heal while move. Stamplar get 0 class identity. In next patch we will lose jabs too probably. Stamina templar should be mobile version but right now is useless version we have nothing that is usefull and other not have it, stamplar need something that can be used only with high stamina bar.

Stx

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

KlauthWarthog

Is there a class spammable worth slotting left in the game at all?
I mean, there are Surprise Attack and Swallow Soul, but dude literally used to call himself therogue, so that´s hardly a shocker.

Firstmep

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I think the idea was to bring jabs more in line with instant spammables, unfortunately it just doesnt quite work out the way they think.
Jabs is unique, beacuse it has to be channeled and aimed as well, no other spammable has both.
The problem with channeled skills is that even a small interruption can cause you to lose out on damage.
That's why in pvp any decent player knows how to counter jabs with good movement, but at the lower end it can be quite oppressive.

That being said, this nerf coupled with the bl nerf is going to kill melee templars damage, with nothing to compensate for it.

mmtaniac

Jabs (no sweeps)should shred through armor with that new little damage i don't know why but sweeps work better when i play. New damage of jabs are countered by too many things, at the same time stamplar not have viable armor penetration option most are too easy to dodge or avoid. Jabs are countered by major evasion most , right now they feel useless after patch they become nothing. Stamplar need something unique for itself something that magplar can't have without it those sublclass just suck. Maybe passives to class that activate after getting 25 k stamina or magicka minimum(can't have both you will always get bonus from one stat), something that give class some uniqueness not be worst class edition. If you have 25k stamina you get armor shreding if magicka bonus healing. Its just propose don't take it too seriously.

pklemming

merpins wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

It does less damage than Rapid Strikes, my dude.
And the animation sucks.

The weave speed used to be .92, which was fine for weaving in a single GCD, but they changed it to 1 second to "better match the animation". The animation is 1.55 seconds long.......

I hate jabs now, the animation is really clunky, and I strongly dislike the massive nerf to jabs damage, with 3 attacks over .8 seconds, as opposed to the 'highly ironic' rapid strikes with 4 over .8 seconds.

They also broke burning light again with a totally unnecessary nerf and change of how it fires. It no longer promotes certain skills and just turned in to yet another passive, but with a slow fire-rate.

..and this was how I started making content for other games... Been meaning to start for a while on ESO, but never did.

TechMaybeHic

I'm not worried about the damage numbers on jabs. It's lined up on a spreadsheet now just how you could expect this design team to do. It's the mechanics that go a long with it that's a problem IMO from a PvP perspective. Shortened to .8 seconds yet still a good possibility 1 ir 2 don't land. And, it's susceptible to major and minor evasion taking a lot of the bite out as well.

Jabs is a unique class identifying skill so it needs consideration beyond the spreadsheet to have it work. Previously; that was total damage. If that's not going to come back; jabs should either no longer be a channel and just be the 3 hits combined to hit based on position on activation and animation sped up (seriously hate the last elbow back swing). Or it should be exempt from major evasion considering the AOE part of the damage is already reduced from the main attack. Maybe both.

Basically I am saying the numbers line up with other spamables, but only in perfect scenarios, while jabs has at least 2 extra variables for that perfect scenario not to happen

renne

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I'm neither talking about the animation or the damage, but everyone wants to just keep intentionally misunderstanding me so go hard, I guess.

merpins

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I'm not worried about the damage numbers on jabs. It's lined up on a spreadsheet now just how you could expect this design team to do. It's the mechanics that go a long with it that's a problem IMO from a PvP perspective. Shortened to .8 seconds yet still a good possibility 1 ir 2 don't land. And, it's susceptible to major and minor evasion taking a lot of the bite out as well.

Jabs is a unique class identifying skill so it needs consideration beyond the spreadsheet to have it work. Previously; that was total damage. If that's not going to come back; jabs should either no longer be a channel and just be the 3 hits combined to hit based on position on activation and animation sped up (seriously hate the last elbow back swing). Or it should be exempt from major evasion considering the AOE part of the damage is already reduced from the main attack. Maybe both.

Basically I am saying the numbers line up with other spamables, but only in perfect scenarios, while jabs has at least 2 extra variables for that perfect scenario not to happen

Even so, in PVE Templars were behind every other class in terms of DPS other than NB and magicka sorc, and in PVP, it was middle of the pack below DK and NB. It didn't need a nerf in either side of the game.

And yeah, due to how variable the skill is, it is far more inconsistent than other skills. But I'm most mad about the new animation. Making it .8 seconds is fine, and even nerfing the damage to make it a bit closer to class spammables is also fine. But fundamentally changing how the skill looks and feels to use is not great.

UnassumingNoob

Some really good points in here. Also one thing I’m not seeing mentioned too often is fights where you simply HAVE to block cast too mitigate damage. It’s normally only for a short duration but it really adds up.

Stx

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I'm neither talking about the animation or the damage, but everyone wants to just keep intentionally misunderstanding me so go hard, I guess.

Let me rephrase for you.

The negatives of the damage being gutted and the horrible animation far outweigh the good of the cast time reduction making it easier to weave.

merpins

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I'm neither talking about the animation or the damage, but everyone wants to just keep intentionally misunderstanding me so go hard, I guess.

Let me rephrase for you.

The negatives of the damage being gutted and the horrible animation far outweigh the good of the cast time reduction making it easier to weave.

Agreed

renne

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I'm neither talking about the animation or the damage, but everyone wants to just keep intentionally misunderstanding me so go hard, I guess.

Let me rephrase for you.

The negatives of the damage being gutted and the horrible animation far outweigh the good of the cast time reduction making it easier to weave.

I'm clearly talking about the time completely separately from the damage or from the animation, so rephrasing doesn't change the continued "misunderstanding".

maxjapank

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I'm neither talking about the animation or the damage, but everyone wants to just keep intentionally misunderstanding me so go hard, I guess.

Let me rephrase for you.

The negatives of the damage being gutted and the horrible animation far outweigh the good of the cast time reduction making it easier to weave.

I'm clearly talking about the time completely separately from the damage or from the animation, so rephrasing doesn't change the continued "misunderstanding".

I’ve understood what you’ve been saying all along. Not sure where the miscommunication is happening. Lol.

renne

.

Stx

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

renne wrote: »

they changed the speed to 0.8 to make it easier to weave, it's literally the only good change to the templars probably ever lmao

They double nerfed the damage, and the animation is putrid. So no, it's probably the single worst change templar has ever seen. You could weave with jabs on live.

I'm neither talking about the animation or the damage, but everyone wants to just keep intentionally misunderstanding me so go hard, I guess.

Let me rephrase for you.

The negatives of the damage being gutted and the horrible animation far outweigh the good of the cast time reduction making it easier to weave.

I'm clearly talking about the time completely separately from the damage or from the animation, so rephrasing doesn't change the continued "misunderstanding".

You might be attempting to talk about the cast time separately, but its not separate. So.. no, there's no misunderstanding.

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