DO NOT BUY HIGH ISLE IF YOU WANT CERTAIN MYTHIC ITEMS

Jeffrey530

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

BlakMarket

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Then there's the Oakensoul lead, I spent 4hrs standing over a randomly timed spawn point spamming "E" with 10-20 other people. Sometime the box didnt spawn for 30 minutes, spamming "E" for 30 mins is not fun.

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

xDeusEJRx

BlakMarket wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Then there's the Oakensoul lead, I spent 4hrs standing over a randomly timed spawn point spamming "E" with 10-20 other people. Sometime the box didnt spawn for 30 minutes, spamming "E" for 30 mins is not fun.

That's called artificial player retention. Give the market a false sense of player retention by forcing people to do chores on the game instead of actually playing the game itself. To ZOS this is just good player retention, good way to keep people on the game.
Without the needless grind for mythics people would probably log off once they see there's not much to do in high isle and once the honeymoon for mythics goes away, people will just stop playing sooner.
Any player retention is good retention, even if it means angering your fanbase.

[edited to remove quote]

Remathilis

The problem is ZoS views leads as either incidental (you find x lead doing what you'd have been doing anyway) or treasure hunts (things you explicitly go looking for, like the tapestry leads). They don't expect or want you to grind up every mythic in the first week. This becomes an issue when a bunch of Twitch streamers and content makers dub a mythic item "meta" and every score-pusher in PvE and PvP says they can't play anymore until they are again using the top of the meta.

You can do one of two things: farm leads incidentally as you stumble across them, which will take longer but is more organic, spend hours in front of a Murkmire safebox. (This is NOT to say the lead local was ill advised, but the question is how are you going to react to it?)

BlakMarket

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Then there's the Oakensoul lead, I spent 4hrs standing over a randomly timed spawn point spamming "E" with 10-20 other people. Sometime the box didnt spawn for 30 minutes, spamming "E" for 30 mins is not fun.

That's called artificial player retention. Give the market a false sense of player retention by forcing people to do chores on the game instead of actually playing the game itself. To ZOS this is just good player retention, good way to keep people on the game.
Without the needless grind for mythics people would probably log off once they see there's not much to do in high isle and once the honeymoon for mythics goes away, people will just stop playing sooner.
Any player retention is good retention, even if it means angering your fanbase.

Sad and probably true.

[edited to remove quote]

Holycannoli

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

That's called artificial player retention. Give the market a false sense of player retention by forcing people to do chores on the game instead of actually playing the game itself. To ZOS this is just good player retention, good way to keep people on the game.
Without the needless grind for mythics people would probably log off once they see there's not much to do in high isle and once the honeymoon for mythics goes away, people will just stop playing sooner.
Any player retention is good retention, even if it means angering your fanbase.

Elite: Dangerous is notorious for it.

Grind does not equal gameplay, but it's the cheapest, easiest way to keep players logging in.

KalyanLazair

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Then there's the Oakensoul lead, I spent 4hrs standing over a randomly timed spawn point spamming "E" with 10-20 other people. Sometime the box didnt spawn for 30 minutes, spamming "E" for 30 mins is not fun.

That's called artificial player retention. Give the market a false sense of player retention by forcing people to do chores on the game instead of actually playing the game itself. To ZOS this is just good player retention, good way to keep people on the game.
Without the needless grind for mythics people would probably log off once they see there's not much to do in high isle and once the honeymoon for mythics goes away, people will just stop playing sooner.
Any player retention is good retention, even if it means angering your fanbase.

This. I've been playing the game since 2017, paying customer with prem account too. I watched the new DLC announcement. 3 days later I cancelled my sub. Haven't opened the game since, and I don't miss it. It's an endless grindfest I had stopped enjoying, and it's just not going to improve. I'm playing other games, I've gone back to writing, I've published 2 books which are selling reasonably well for being an aspiring author. I have time again to do things I enjoy. ESO had gone from being something fun to becoming something akin to cleaning my house, and endless consecution of chores.

I miss what it used to be, the game I fell in love with. It's not me who has changed, it's ESO.

[edited to remove quote]

wolfie1.0.

DagenHawk wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

STOP trying to get everything in the first week

Wait a few weeks and then go get wwhat you need

Took me 8 months of running ruins of Mazz 2 to 3 times a day to get the lead for the kilt.

Over 50 attempts from ds 1

60 from eh1 for that lead...

It's not about waiting for some of us, it's about the horrible rng.

Some of these leads have worse drop rates than Aetherial Dust.

So serious question how would you feel about a 25% drop rate across the board? If ZoS was to do that in the name of respecting the players time, how would that sit?

To be honest it probably wouldn't sit. Primarily because I have nothing to compare it against. Even the best player recorded data is inherently inacurrate. There is nothing to confirm that the indicated 25% is in fact true.

So even a generous drop rate would mean nothing...this is why the devs have not acted, because nothing would solve the issue of RNG.

But folks will keep complaining, we can always count on that.

25% drop rate is not a generous drop rate. Generous would imply that the odds are in favor of the player not getting nothing. 25% drop rate implies that there is also a 75% failure rate.

What I would consider a generous lead drop is similar to cold harbors void crystals. I would consider half of that leads drop rate as acceptable and workable.

Quite honestly it's entirely possible that I am just burned out on trying to farm leads. The rng on these is so bad that I would rather go back to pre item set collection days instead of trying another 5 to 6 months to spawn a lead.

Maxdevil

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Who would buy a chapter just for the mythics?

As a hardcore pvp player and pvp theory crafter I don’t care about most content anymore and I just want to get oakensoul/ sea serpent mythic. Eso is pay to win because every new chapter release a new mythic that is broken malacath in greymoor, sithis gaze in Blackwood and now oaken soul for high isle. I will probably wait until September/October, when the chapter will be on sale and see if the mythic hasn’t been nerfed too hard to buy it.

wolfie1.0.

Remathilis wrote: »

The problem is ZoS views leads as either incidental (you find x lead doing what you'd have been doing anyway) or treasure hunts (things you explicitly go looking for, like the tapestry leads). They don't expect or want you to grind up every mythic in the first week. This becomes an issue when a bunch of Twitch streamers and content makers dub a mythic item "meta" and every score-pusher in PvE and PvP says they can't play anymore until they are again using the top of the meta.

You can do one of two things: farm leads incidentally as you stumble across them, which will take longer but is more organic, spend hours in front of a Murkmire safebox. (This is NOT to say the lead local was ill advised, but the question is how are you going to react to it?)

The only reason mythics get talked about is because of how powerful they are and their utility value. There are mythics that no one really cares about.

drsalvation

Elo106 wrote: »

Its like they never learn, we had the exact same issue back in greymore when they had that lead on that table

I didnt pay for this expansion just to sit there pressing E for hours hoping for some RNG

I spent 3 days in that cave in glenumbra to get the pale order lead...
I spent 2 weeks grinding falkreath hold for the minotaur ring lead...

It's not fun.
Forcing to repeat an activity multiple times is tedious, it ruins gameplay.
Leads should be an adventure, a puzzle, not something you just grind mindlessly for hours.

Make it so that the antiquarian's house in skyrim will give you specific dungeon quests where you can use the antiquarian's eye to find clues (within the dungeon) on where to find the lead, and once you have all clues, now you can find the lead where they drop from IN THE FIRST ATTEMPT.

This way, players will know how to find leads within the game instead of having to watch some youtube video, the player can stay in the game and play the game.
It will promote dungeon crawling (maybe one clue per dungeon, and get 3 clues to unlock a lead drop).
It will make looking for leads a fun activity which gives purpose to other stuff in the game, and less like a chore that makes us want to blow our controllers out and just play another game where you feel like you're actually accomplishing something.

The lead drops don't need to change, you can still find that pale order ring lead in that cave in glenumbra from random mobs, but it will only drop after you've obtained all clues.

The mindless grinding to keep players hooked is more of a punishment/chore, and in no way gameplay incentives. When I finally got the leads I was looking for, I NEVER felt satisfied, I felt relief that my torment was finally over. It didn't feel like I was being rewarded, it felt like I was being released from jail or something.

I gave up on trying to dig up mythics for that very same reason. There's really no point on them.
The story is too easy, it takes 3 minutes for a random overland mob to kill me on my DPS build (I have video evidence of that), so there's no need for me to farm any gear, molag bal is as scary as a generic delve boss, and I have to nerf myself just to give me any sort of challenge, which makes any mythic and any dungeon gear wrothless and redundant...
After all, the only reason to farm dungeons is to run more dungeons. But there's no long-term story attached to them, no stories I can care about in the long run, so why even bother?
Meanwhile, stories in the game that try to sell you to this super-powerful world-ending-threat of a boss, like molag bal, is a joke to take on without any specialized gear, and grinding for dungeon, mythic and trial sets will make those jokes of a fight even more pitiful.


So until ZoS starts to take the "Game" in "games as a service" part more in consideration, then there will never be any sort of sense of accomplishment in this game. Not even in PvP when your gear is fighting your fights for you and the game plays itself.

Necrotech_Master

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

STOP trying to get everything in the first week

Wait a few weeks and then go get wwhat you need

Took me 8 months of running ruins of Mazz 2 to 3 times a day to get the lead for the kilt.

Over 50 attempts from ds 1

60 from eh1 for that lead...

It's not about waiting for some of us, it's about the horrible rng.

Some of these leads have worse drop rates than Aetherial Dust.

thats some serious unlucky RNG there

most dungeon leads never took me more than about 10 runs to get, even the "infamous" shadowfen kilt lead i just happened upon with 1 single node harvest, and i wasnt even trying to get that, i was on my way to a daily to rank up companion undaunted skill lines lol

my luck on aetherial dust however is very poor, ive maybe gotten 1 of those like ever in my entire history of the game since they first released

Wolfpaw

Remathilis wrote: »

The problem is ZoS views leads as either incidental (you find x lead doing what you'd have been doing anyway) or treasure hunts (things you explicitly go looking for, like the tapestry leads). They don't expect or want you to grind up every mythic in the first week. This becomes an issue when a bunch of Twitch streamers and content makers dub a mythic item "meta" and every score-pusher in PvE and PvP says they can't play anymore until they are again using the top of the meta.

You can do one of two things: farm leads incidentally as you stumble across them, which will take longer but is more organic, spend hours in front of a Murkmire safebox. (This is NOT to say the lead local was ill advised, but the question is how are you going to react to it?)

A set, item, &/or build is either meta or not. Meta is not an opinion, it's math. "Top of the meta", is staying competitive.

ZOS should change their views from how they want or assume players will play, to how players play their game. Getting input from content creators would be a good.start considering those customers actually play the game.

DagenHawk

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

STOP trying to get everything in the first week

Wait a few weeks and then go get wwhat you need

Took me 8 months of running ruins of Mazz 2 to 3 times a day to get the lead for the kilt.

Over 50 attempts from ds 1

60 from eh1 for that lead...

It's not about waiting for some of us, it's about the horrible rng.

Some of these leads have worse drop rates than Aetherial Dust.

So serious question how would you feel about a 25% drop rate across the board? If ZoS was to do that in the name of respecting the players time, how would that sit?

A serious answer. Why not have a mechanism that provides tokens which after accumulation enough can be used to buy the gear and offset a particularly bad run of RNG luck?

That would be a good thing...the devs should consider it, but should also increase the drop rate.

Jeffrey530

BlakMarket wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Then there's the Oakensoul lead, I spent 4hrs standing over a randomly timed spawn point spamming "E" with 10-20 other people. Sometime the box didnt spawn for 30 minutes, spamming "E" for 30 mins is not fun.

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

If is not fun, don't do it?

edit: Since when has farming been fun? Also if it is such a desirable op item, I'd rather less people have it.

SedoUmbra

I feel like I didn't need to be told to not to spend £33 of my money on 5 situational items, about 3 of which will probably see no use in any of my builds.

Remathilis

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

The problem is ZoS views leads as either incidental (you find x lead doing what you'd have been doing anyway) or treasure hunts (things you explicitly go looking for, like the tapestry leads). They don't expect or want you to grind up every mythic in the first week. This becomes an issue when a bunch of Twitch streamers and content makers dub a mythic item "meta" and every score-pusher in PvE and PvP says they can't play anymore until they are again using the top of the meta.

You can do one of two things: farm leads incidentally as you stumble across them, which will take longer but is more organic, spend hours in front of a Murkmire safebox. (This is NOT to say the lead local was ill advised, but the question is how are you going to react to it?)

A set, item, &/or build is either meta or not. Meta is not an opinion, it's math. "Top of the meta", is staying competitive.

ZOS should change their views from how they want or assume players will play, to how players play their game. Getting input from content creators would be a good.start considering those customers actually play the game.

Two weeks ago, Bahshi/Kinras/Relequin/Kilt were all meta. They didn't become trash because a new shiny set does 1% better. The only people who should care about 1% are score pushers and frankly I don't lose sleep knowing they are spending hours huddled around chests in Murkmire or scouring South Elswyer for portals rather than enjoying the new zone or trial. Everyone else will get it when the dust settles in the course of natural play.

DarcyMardin

I never bother to grind for these various gear leads — the really good gear usually gets nerfed after a few weeks anyway. The only one I ever worked hard to acquire was the ring of the pale order, which I hardly ever use anyway. I quite like Antiquities, but the gear leads are a waste of my time and energy.

Vaoh

Remathilis wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

The problem is ZoS views leads as either incidental (you find x lead doing what you'd have been doing anyway) or treasure hunts (things you explicitly go looking for, like the tapestry leads). They don't expect or want you to grind up every mythic in the first week. This becomes an issue when a bunch of Twitch streamers and content makers dub a mythic item "meta" and every score-pusher in PvE and PvP says they can't play anymore until they are again using the top of the meta.

You can do one of two things: farm leads incidentally as you stumble across them, which will take longer but is more organic, spend hours in front of a Murkmire safebox. (This is NOT to say the lead local was ill advised, but the question is how are you going to react to it?)

A set, item, &/or build is either meta or not. Meta is not an opinion, it's math. "Top of the meta", is staying competitive.

ZOS should change their views from how they want or assume players will play, to how players play their game. Getting input from content creators would be a good.start considering those customers actually play the game.

Two weeks ago, Bahshi/Kinras/Relequin/Kilt were all meta. They didn't become trash because a new shiny set does 1% better. The only people who should care about 1% are score pushers and frankly I don't lose sleep knowing they are spending hours huddled around chests in Murkmire or scouring Summerset for portals rather than enjoying the new zone or trial. Everyone else will get it when the dust settles in the course of natural play.

Hardcore scorepushers are not the category of players who use this item. Oakensoul ring is catered most towards casual questers and anyone else wanting to use a one-bar build effectively as they do the new content....

DagenHawk

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I never bother to grind for these various gear leads — the really good gear usually gets nerfed after a few weeks anyway. The only one I ever worked hard to acquire was the ring of the pale order, which I hardly ever use anyway. I quite like Antiquities, but the gear leads are a waste of my time and energy.

And yet the Devs Keeps the feeding frenzy up, it causes a lot of unneeded angst but no one in development has a better idea. One day we are going to see a MMO where you can't use a spreadsheet to get ahead and you won't have some Jerk berating you because you're not getting that extra 500 DMG on the rotation.

More and more gamers are deciding not to participate in such ridiculousness...you would think that would change design philosophy, but it never does.

The_Lex

Well, the CMs are streaming the new trial atm, so we won’t hear anything any time soon.

Ragnaroek93

Let's defend this awful game design choices which include p2w and boring grind and blame the players for wanting to be optimized in a RPG...

I didn't buy the xpac because there's nothing in it which I'm interested in except this one mythic item. Overland content is so easy that it's just immersion breaking at this point, PvP is a diashow with absolute laughable balance and overhealing. To sell this product they create an awful and boring item which removes 6 skills from your character but is so broken op that it's worth it.

I haven't really played the game since Necro got released and I might call it here at last tbh. The ESO steam charts are a massacre and all they came up is this disappointing xpac. They probably don't know how to make a fun game anymore.

kind_hero

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Love it everyone acts like the victim when they are part of the problem. Lets suggest Zos to just give out all the new mythics in mail when we buy a new dlc, or make it a 100% drop rate so you all can pretend you 'earned' it.

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Then there's the Oakensoul lead, I spent 4hrs standing over a randomly timed spawn point spamming "E" with 10-20 other people. Sometime the box didnt spawn for 30 minutes, spamming "E" for 30 mins is not fun.

That's called artificial player retention. Give the market a false sense of player retention by forcing people to do chores on the game instead of actually playing the game itself. To ZOS this is just good player retention, good way to keep people on the game.
Without the needless grind for mythics people would probably log off once they see there's not much to do in high isle and once the honeymoon for mythics goes away, people will just stop playing sooner.
Any player retention is good retention, even if it means angering your fanbase.

[edited to remove quote]

So true... I didn't know it was called artificial player retention, although I had this feeling that I am "forced" to do chores and such instead of doing what I normally enjoy in the game. None is forcing me, but having all sorts of activities that give rewards, I tend to do this and that before realizing how I spent a hour or more on chores, and my playtime is almost over.

I used to love this game (2014 veteran), but now it feels so much like a boring grind, that I can't enjoy it anymore. I don't even feel motivated to go after these leads or do any grind. I spent a lot of time chasing leads when the first mythics were added. Most were easier to get than the recent list added to the game. I am not sure why is that. It isn't a challenge that makes me want to attempt it, is that kind of challenge which you know is unfair or pointless, and in the end you just lose interest. But this is contagious... I mean I feel how I am losing interest in playing the whole game.

P.S. Another example of a stupid grind: now we can buy antiquities from the achievement vendor, but only after completing the codex, which means getting all random entries in some log none cares about. For example, one of the antiquities I really like is the dwemer starchart. It took me a ton of mindnumbing grind to get one. After that I tried lots and lots of times to get a 2nd one for another house of mine. No luck after all this time. So, good news, I will be able to buy it after getting it enough times that I don't really need more copies of it. Such a cheesy way to make people grind more old dusty obsolete content, instead of having them play what's new and fresh.

lean

Toe Cap only comes from Southern Elsweyr. Didn't see much info about this on forums, so here's proof:



I also farmed like 50+ psijic's then went to S Elsweyr and got it after just a few.

ADarklore

All of the complaints and I have yet to have anyone from ZOS chime in to say they are even aware of the problem... to me this sounds like, 'working as intended'. So, frustrating a large portion of your players is 'intended'?!?

Rogue_WolfESO

ADarklore wrote: »

All of the complaints and I have yet to have anyone from ZOS chime in to say they are even aware of the problem... to me this sounds like, 'working as intended'. So, frustrating a large portion of your players is 'intended'?!?

You will notice snips and edits here and there to indicate they are aware of the problem, as someone is taking time to read and edit our posts.

Qagh

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I'm a die hard fan of this game and typically buy collectors editions, but the Murkmire strongbox situation has me reevaluating whether to buy chapters at launch going forward. This is just so disrespectful to the player base. It may be delay until fall and get it on a discount from here on out.

Not only the Murkmire strongbox.
There are maybe 1 or 2 psijiic portals in 1-2 hours in Southern Elsweyr. It's horror! I hate ESO now!

SpiritKitten

BlakMarket wrote: »

Never suggested ZOS give out all the new mythics, [snip]. Just mindfulness on ways to farm them, for around 20+ hours I've been riding around looking for Psijic portals for a lead, 71 portals later no lead. Riding around looking for completely random portals is not fun, sometimes I wont see a portal for 30 minutes.

Are you harvesting all the runestones to get the portals to spawn?

Tornaad

I would counter this idea, just expect to need to wait for demand to die down first.
For example, I am very much looking forward to the Oakensoul Ring, but do not want to face Murkmire so I am instead trying to collect more Tribute decks, while I wait for demand to normalize.

Jpk0012

ADarklore wrote: »

Their attitude is... "we want to give them something to keep them playing the game"... instead they give us content that makes us want to QUIT the game! They really need to get a grasp between 'time well spent' and 'wasting player's time'. MMOs are meant to include some grind, not a virtual dead end. Basically, it feels like them saying, "let's dangle something in front of them, but put it behind a wall that only a few die-hard players will actually be able to get". It's not fun, it's not 'time well spent' and it's not even a "grind"... it's a WALL!!

Its amazing that the horrible Psijic line disaster didn't teach ZOS anything. Or maybe it did. We are still here. [snip]

[edited for bashing]