Oakensoul Nerf

Eldartar

Same old ......... Same old ..... Same old story. . . Did you all expect anything else?

It's for the scrap heap now with all the others.

Captain_OP

To be honest, this has already been discussed:
Do you want a Mythic for one-bar builds?

Most people were ok with major buffs only, because they give freedom to the builds. If they go with major buffs then they should add major berserk and sorcery on top and the ring would be perfect. It would be a viable replacement for the backbar and would always reward learning bar swapping because the skills that can give you the buffs have some additional effects.

Vylaera

Captain_OP wrote: »

To be honest, this has already been discussed:
Do you want a Mythic for one-bar builds?

Most people were ok with major buffs only, because they give freedom to the builds. If they go with major buffs then they should add major berserk and sorcery on top and the ring would be perfect. It would be a viable replacement for the backbar and would always reward learning bar swapping because the skills that can give you the buffs have some additional effects.

Only major buffs don't cut it because you're still missing your infused weapon damage backbar which is a unique source of weapon and spell damage. You don't get this from this mythic anymore, but you did before the nerf.

You get major courage from SPC and Olorime in your optimized group. This is redundant.
You get major crit buffs from your potions. This is redundant.
You get major recovery bonuses from your potions. This is redundant.

The only benefit you get out of it is the max stats. Everything else is useless. But now you're unable to barswap, meaning you are now not only wasting your mythic slot on this rather than something like the Kilt or the new Mora's Whispers, but you also can't bar swap to proc infused backbar or get a major sorcery/brutality buff, so you still have to use a potion anyway, and you don't get to place more AOEs or DOTs you'd have had slotted on your backbar.

This mythic was so poorly and haphazardly "fixed", it might just take the cake for worst mythic in the game in its current state, and that is a VERY competitive spot.


This is what the mythic needs to account for:
1. Infused Weapon Damage enchant on a Maelstrom Backbar
2. Not having extra damage abilities on the backbar.

So it needs to:
1. Give you a unique weapon and spell damage bonus equal to infused weapon damage enchant
2. Buff the few abilities you do have on your frontbar to equal the output you would have if you had backbar damage abilities
3. Not be redundant with buffs you easily source from other places.

What the ring does post-nerf
1. Does not offer unique weapon and spell damage equal to infused WD BB
2. Does technically buff your frontbar abilities, but,
3. Does do with horrible redundancy by only providing commonly and easily sourced group and potion buffs i.e. Spell/Weapon Power Potion and group supports running SPC or Olorime.


It is absolutely incomprehensible how this nerf can be justified as ok. It doesn't do its job. No one would get any benefit out of using this. It's too powerful for overland, it's not powerful enough for endgame PvE or PvP, it doesn't buff werewolves any more than any other mythic does. Who else would actually use it?

colossalvoids

If it was made for solo players that aren't able to utilize both bars I think swap to majors is pretty good design choices not making it a group item, not a trial one at least. But major recoveries needs to go along with major resolve, it's provided by very basic means and taking away from the item. Would make space for actually benefiting buffs instead making it viable, could make another defensive/recovery mythic later for 1bar tanks or something, but not bringing it into one item providing mostly useless benefits.

Captain_OP

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

To be honest, this has already been discussed:
Do you want a Mythic for one-bar builds?

Most people were ok with major buffs only, because they give freedom to the builds. If they go with major buffs then they should add major berserk and sorcery on top and the ring would be perfect. It would be a viable replacement for the backbar and would always reward learning bar swapping because the skills that can give you the buffs have some additional effects.

Only major buffs don't cut it because you're still missing your infused weapon damage backbar which is a unique source of weapon and spell damage. You don't get this from this mythic anymore, but you did before the nerf.

You get major courage from SPC and Olorime in your optimized group. This is redundant.
You get major crit buffs from your potions. This is redundant.
You get major recovery bonuses from your potions. This is redundant.

The only benefit you get out of it is the max stats. Everything else is useless. But now you're unable to barswap, meaning you are now not only wasting your mythic slot on this rather than something like the Kilt or the new Mora's Whispers, but you also can't bar swap to proc infused backbar or get a major sorcery/brutality buff, so you still have to use a potion anyway, and you don't get to place more AOEs or DOTs you'd have had slotted on your backbar.

This mythic was so poorly and haphazardly "fixed", it might just take the cake for worst mythic in the game in its current state, and that is a VERY competitive spot.


This is what the mythic needs to account for:
1. Infused Weapon Damage enchant on a Maelstrom Backbar
2. Not having extra damage abilities on the backbar.

So it needs to:
1. Give you a unique weapon and spell damage bonus equal to infused weapon damage enchant
2. Buff the few abilities you do have on your frontbar to equal the output you would have if you had backbar damage abilities
3. Not be redundant with buffs you easily source from other places.

What the ring does post-nerf
1. Does not offer unique weapon and spell damage equal to infused WD BB
2. Does technically buff your frontbar abilities, but,
3. Does do with horrible redundancy by only providing commonly and easily sourced group and potion buffs i.e. Spell/Weapon Power Potion and group supports running SPC or Olorime.


It is absolutely incomprehensible how this nerf can be justified as ok. It doesn't do its job. No one would get any benefit out of using this. It's too powerful for overland, it's not powerful enough for endgame PvE or PvP, it doesn't buff werewolves any more than any other mythic does. Who else would actually use it?

You did answer a lot of things that lead to a viable endgame item, but not the question for which people this item is intendet. Like the devs said in the nerf comment, they dont want it to be a viable choise over two bars in the endgame content.

Most people that play one-bar doesnt care about all those things and they doesnt take it as a challange to play one-bar. They have their reasons why they dont bar swap and the devs would deliver the perfect item for them if it only provides all the major buffs so they have very much freedom of choise on the abilities on their bar.

But i have to admit, if the devs want them to be able to do trials etc with the ring then they should add minor courage or flat weapon/spell damage aswell, because of the backbar (maelsstrom)weapon that is missing.

fred4

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Who else would actually use it?

I think the answer is quite simply: Those that can, for personal reasons, only play one bar builds. I think it's fair that such builds should underperform. People choose the path of least resistance. If this became meta or even close, that would be a gross simplification of the game as a whole. That should IMO not be done.

Aside from that, I think your analysis is too PvE-centric, and high-end PvE at that. I don't think Major Courage is common in dungeon PUGs. There are levels inbetween overland and organised dungeon / trial groups, not the least of which are the solo arenas. I find Pale Order is already not the outright best for those on classes that have good self-healing while attacking, such as magplar and stamsorc. This ring might well be the thing that enables first time completion of those arenas on vet for some people. None of it's stats would go to waste in that context.

In regards to PvP, I am sure it will be better than you think. For starters all the stats will be useful, including the resistances, health and off-stat. Major Courage is not something you necessarily have in PvP, nor is 100% uptime of your back bar enchant. Even potion use is something you might get creative with, despite the fact that I have argued the weakness of the major resource buffs from Oakensoul. I would certainly look into getting creative with resistance, immovability and detection potions, everything that isn't resource recovery. The main thing, though, is the lack of buff maintenance. PvP - duels specifically - ebb and flow because people need to spend time buffing. Oakensoul means you're cutting out that time. The opportunity cost of the buffs that Oakensoul provides will be zero. That could be huge or it could be "meh". No way to tell until you test some builds.

Vylaera

fred4 wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Who else would actually use it?

I think the answer is quite simply: Those that can, for personal reasons, only play one bar builds. I think it's fair that such builds should underperform. People choose the path of least resistance. If this became meta or even close, that would be a gross simplification of the game as a whole. That should IMO not be done.

Aside from that, I think your analysis is too PvE-centric, and high-end PvE at that. I don't think Major Courage is common in dungeon PUGs. There are levels inbetween overland and organised dungeon / trial groups, not the least of which are the solo arenas. I find Pale Order is already not the outright best for those on classes that have good self-healing while attacking, such as magplar and stamsorc. This ring might well be the thing that enables first time completion of those arenas on vet for some people. None of it's stats would go to waste in that context.

In regards to PvP, I am sure it will be better than you think. For starters all the stats will be useful, including the resistances, health and off-stat. Major Courage is not something you necessarily have in PvP, nor is 100% uptime of your back bar enchant. Even potion use is something you might get creative with, despite the fact that I have argued the weakness of the major resource buffs from Oakensoul. I would certainly look into getting creative with resistance, immovability and detection potions, everything that isn't resource recovery. The main thing, though, is the lack of buff maintenance. PvP - duels specifically - ebb and flow because people need to spend time buffing. Oakensoul means you're cutting out that time. The opportunity cost of the buffs that Oakensoul provides will be zero. That could be huge or it could be "meh". No way to tell until you test some builds.

I've only been talking PvE because that's where 1bar builds actually exist. Oakensoul wasn't even that great compared to a 2bar pvp build even before the nerf, now it's useless. I tested it last night on my pts sorc, and (if I hadn't forgotten to swap necropotence for crafty alfiq because I wasn't using a pet and didn't even get the necropot 5pc bonus) every single stat was significantly higher on a standard 2bar build than it was with oakensoul.

I also don't see it as being a simplification. It's an option, or it should be. Would some groups use it? Yes. Would all groups use it? No. It being a viable option to do well in the endgame is what people who use 1bar builds have been asking for. How sour that would be if you've been asking for something to push 1bar builds up to the top and then all you get is "here's this gabro ring, it's not really any better than the tools you currently have and you're still stuck with the same mid-tier damage you were before, but now you get to buy our chapter and spend time farming for it"

Besides, ZOS' "play how you want" mantra seems to mean "raise to floor so bad builds are good and lack of skill is still enough to win", so the point of oakensoul was very obviously to raise 1bar builds up to par with 2bar builds. Not to give them the illusion of choice to still remain bad and unwanted.

Yarcanine

Ring needs to have Major Brutality/Sorcery and like another 200 weapon damage to make up for not having a backbar WD enchant. Maybe another major buff like evasion, force, or expedition. Then it will be in a good spot

colossalvoids

BroughBreaux wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Who else would actually use it?

I think the answer is quite simply: Those that can, for personal reasons, only play one bar builds. I think it's fair that such builds should underperform. People choose the path of least resistance. If this became meta or even close, that would be a gross simplification of the game as a whole. That should IMO not be done.

Aside from that, I think your analysis is too PvE-centric, and high-end PvE at that. I don't think Major Courage is common in dungeon PUGs. There are levels inbetween overland and organised dungeon / trial groups, not the least of which are the solo arenas. I find Pale Order is already not the outright best for those on classes that have good self-healing while attacking, such as magplar and stamsorc. This ring might well be the thing that enables first time completion of those arenas on vet for some people. None of it's stats would go to waste in that context.

In regards to PvP, I am sure it will be better than you think. For starters all the stats will be useful, including the resistances, health and off-stat. Major Courage is not something you necessarily have in PvP, nor is 100% uptime of your back bar enchant. Even potion use is something you might get creative with, despite the fact that I have argued the weakness of the major resource buffs from Oakensoul. I would certainly look into getting creative with resistance, immovability and detection potions, everything that isn't resource recovery. The main thing, though, is the lack of buff maintenance. PvP - duels specifically - ebb and flow because people need to spend time buffing. Oakensoul means you're cutting out that time. The opportunity cost of the buffs that Oakensoul provides will be zero. That could be huge or it could be "meh". No way to tell until you test some builds.

Besides, ZOS' "play how you want" mantra seems to mean "raise to floor so bad builds are good and lack of skill is still enough to win", so the point of oakensoul was very obviously to raise 1bar builds up to par with 2bar builds. Not to give them the illusion of choice to still remain bad and unwanted.

I'm seriously doubting it was their intention to begin with. Would be truly a strange one balance wise. To help people already utilising one bar solo or casually - absolutely, to make worse performing builds to be on par in group content - not really, at least changes indicated so.

wolfie1.0.

Couldn't they just have indicated that you can't transform with the ring equipped?

Vylaera

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Couldn't they just have indicated that you can't transform with the ring equipped?

Exactly. That's what I've been saying since day 1 of 8.0.0 and it became painfully obvious werewolves were going to abuse it. Or at least significantly reduce the stat gain werewolves specifically get from it. Not nerf it into the ground and make it useless for everyone.

QuintusVaLari

This item was probably overtuned before.

As a devout WW player, I expected a nerf to the item. I didn't expect a nerf that hit WW's as hard, but I'm not surprised.

Out of all the nerfs, the nerf to sustain is the one I'm heartbroken about the most.

merpins

Captain_OP wrote: »

To be honest, this has already been discussed:
Do you want a Mythic for one-bar builds?

Most people were ok with major buffs only, because they give freedom to the builds. If they go with major buffs then they should add major berserk and sorcery on top and the ring would be perfect. It would be a viable replacement for the backbar and would always reward learning bar swapping because the skills that can give you the buffs have some additional effects.

If they added Major Berserk and Minor Force, or Major Berserk and added 200 unique weapon/spell damage, I would say it's then mission accomplished kinda. It wouldn't be as good as before, but I could see people getting enough out of it to be able to do end game content with other people. If they did one of those two plus sorcery/brutality then that would only be a bonus.

merpins

QuintusVaLari wrote: »

This item was probably overtuned before.

As a devout WW player, I expected a nerf to the item. I didn't expect a nerf that hit WW's as hard, but I'm not surprised.

Out of all the nerfs, the nerf to sustain is the one I'm heartbroken about the most.

Well yeah, it was an oversight for it to work on ww in the first place and shouldn't due to pvp. It was the sole reason the item needed such a heavy hitting nerf, but it didn't need that. It only needed a minor adjustment and a WW specific nerf, like disallowing the bonuses or allowing only a portion of the bonuses while in ww form. For example, it could have been for ww you only gain the sustain and the max resource stats, and it would still be pretty good for ww, but instead it was nerfed into the trash.

merpins

BroughBreaux wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Couldn't they just have indicated that you can't transform with the ring equipped?

Exactly. That's what I've been saying since day 1 of 8.0.0 and it became painfully obvious werewolves were going to abuse it. Or at least significantly reduce the stat gain werewolves specifically get from it. Not nerf it into the ground and make it useless for everyone.

That's what ZoS does though. If an item is overtuned for PVP, nerf it into the ground.

Vylaera

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

To be honest, this has already been discussed:
Do you want a Mythic for one-bar builds?

Most people were ok with major buffs only, because they give freedom to the builds. If they go with major buffs then they should add major berserk and sorcery on top and the ring would be perfect. It would be a viable replacement for the backbar and would always reward learning bar swapping because the skills that can give you the buffs have some additional effects.

If they added Major Berserk and Minor Force, or Major Berserk and added 200 unique weapon/spell damage, I would say it's then mission accomplished kinda. It wouldn't be as good as before, but I could see people getting enough out of it to be able to do end game content with other people. If they did one of those two plus sorcery/brutality then that would only be a bonus.

I would bump the weapon damage because an infused enchant is 558 I think. But otherwise yeah, that plus sorcerery, brutality, and berserk would bump this mythic back up to where it needs to be.

AinSoph

Y'know, if they are dead-set on going this route for Oakensoul, they could at least add the minor buffs and the other missing major/minors.

merpins

BroughBreaux wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

To be honest, this has already been discussed:
Do you want a Mythic for one-bar builds?

Most people were ok with major buffs only, because they give freedom to the builds. If they go with major buffs then they should add major berserk and sorcery on top and the ring would be perfect. It would be a viable replacement for the backbar and would always reward learning bar swapping because the skills that can give you the buffs have some additional effects.

If they added Major Berserk and Minor Force, or Major Berserk and added 200 unique weapon/spell damage, I would say it's then mission accomplished kinda. It wouldn't be as good as before, but I could see people getting enough out of it to be able to do end game content with other people. If they did one of those two plus sorcery/brutality then that would only be a bonus.

I would bump the weapon damage because an infused enchant is 558 I think. But otherwise yeah, that plus sorcerery, brutality, and berserk would bump this mythic back up to where it needs to be.

that's about right. Remove the Courage, bring back 450 unique weapon spell damage, add Berserk, and then either Force or sorcery/brutality.

spartaxoxo

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

But now those builds can use that slot to slot a skill that provides a different passive buff. They don't even have to use the skill, they can get more damage or defense or whatever by just slotting something else and then ignoring that button like they already do.

Let's say a warden for example. Not they drop inner light and slot another animal skill to boost their damage with the passive for having it slotted. Then, don't use the skill. You still get the passive that you were unable to get before.

Adding another animal skill for the passive benefit does not equal the same benefit of the crit rate and damage, or the crit rate and extra magicka, from the guild bar passives. Now Imagine you're playing a Dragon Knight. You now get no benefit from slotting something else in place of those skills.

As for your second quote, most people that do these builds due to the inability to bar swap want as few buttons to press as possible, so most don't even use potions, but if you want to bring up potions as an example, weapon power potions and spell power potions provide both the Recovery buff you want and the Crit buff from the ring. Not that people with the problems mentioned use potions much anyway.

There's no argument here. This ring both adds and takes options away, but what it takes away is not something that should be taken away from this particular playstyle. Nerfing the original crit rate it grants and specifying that the crit rate is reduced by x amount while in ww form, like for example 1400 crit rate and half that while a WW, would fix the problems that are introduced by this change.

The op brought up potions as an example. The ring provides more options to use different potions.

As far as the slotting thing. You aren't losing anything to slot something else. You gain 3 percent more spell damage and you still have the same crit. There are so many options that the ring opens for one bar builds, just takes a bit of creativity.

As for overall power, one bar builds should not be able to compete with players using a full range of skills. That shouldn't be a thing. This provide some power and a ton of stats and opens up a ton of options that just are not present in live right now.

The ring pre-nerf didnt make it so one-bar builds could compete with people using 2 bar builds. It made it so they can do enough damage to play with the top end, even if it's sub-optimal. You're still nowhere near the real top end, even with this ring in mind, but it was overtuned before.

Wasn't there someone parsing 120k with it?

Vylaera

AinSoph wrote: »

Y'know, if they are dead-set on going this route for Oakensoul, they could at least add the minor buffs and the other missing major/minors.

The minor buffs would then cause the werewolf problem again and it would just be a slightly worse version of the original with the same problems.

The better option if we're doing big changes is to revert it back to the way it was before and reduce its effectiveness while transformed as a werewolf.

aaisoaho

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

But now those builds can use that slot to slot a skill that provides a different passive buff. They don't even have to use the skill, they can get more damage or defense or whatever by just slotting something else and then ignoring that button like they already do.

Let's say a warden for example. Not they drop inner light and slot another animal skill to boost their damage with the passive for having it slotted. Then, don't use the skill. You still get the passive that you were unable to get before.

Adding another animal skill for the passive benefit does not equal the same benefit of the crit rate and damage, or the crit rate and extra magicka, from the guild bar passives. Now Imagine you're playing a Dragon Knight. You now get no benefit from slotting something else in place of those skills.

As for your second quote, most people that do these builds due to the inability to bar swap want as few buttons to press as possible, so most don't even use potions, but if you want to bring up potions as an example, weapon power potions and spell power potions provide both the Recovery buff you want and the Crit buff from the ring. Not that people with the problems mentioned use potions much anyway.

There's no argument here. This ring both adds and takes options away, but what it takes away is not something that should be taken away from this particular playstyle. Nerfing the original crit rate it grants and specifying that the crit rate is reduced by x amount while in ww form, like for example 1400 crit rate and half that while a WW, would fix the problems that are introduced by this change.

The op brought up potions as an example. The ring provides more options to use different potions.

As far as the slotting thing. You aren't losing anything to slot something else. You gain 3 percent more spell damage and you still have the same crit. There are so many options that the ring opens for one bar builds, just takes a bit of creativity.

As for overall power, one bar builds should not be able to compete with players using a full range of skills. That shouldn't be a thing. This provide some power and a ton of stats and opens up a ton of options that just are not present in live right now.

The ring pre-nerf didnt make it so one-bar builds could compete with people using 2 bar builds. It made it so they can do enough damage to play with the top end, even if it's sub-optimal. You're still nowhere near the real top end, even with this ring in mind, but it was overtuned before.

Wasn't there someone parsing 120k with it?

Parsing even higher than 120k. It was superclose to the top end of two bars while giving you awesome sustain, solid defensive stats and removing the need to barswap.

https://youtu.be/c2MRY3v8E9w

https://youtu.be/2Ai89Xopqh8

merpins

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

But now those builds can use that slot to slot a skill that provides a different passive buff. They don't even have to use the skill, they can get more damage or defense or whatever by just slotting something else and then ignoring that button like they already do.

Let's say a warden for example. Not they drop inner light and slot another animal skill to boost their damage with the passive for having it slotted. Then, don't use the skill. You still get the passive that you were unable to get before.

Adding another animal skill for the passive benefit does not equal the same benefit of the crit rate and damage, or the crit rate and extra magicka, from the guild bar passives. Now Imagine you're playing a Dragon Knight. You now get no benefit from slotting something else in place of those skills.

As for your second quote, most people that do these builds due to the inability to bar swap want as few buttons to press as possible, so most don't even use potions, but if you want to bring up potions as an example, weapon power potions and spell power potions provide both the Recovery buff you want and the Crit buff from the ring. Not that people with the problems mentioned use potions much anyway.

There's no argument here. This ring both adds and takes options away, but what it takes away is not something that should be taken away from this particular playstyle. Nerfing the original crit rate it grants and specifying that the crit rate is reduced by x amount while in ww form, like for example 1400 crit rate and half that while a WW, would fix the problems that are introduced by this change.

The op brought up potions as an example. The ring provides more options to use different potions.

As far as the slotting thing. You aren't losing anything to slot something else. You gain 3 percent more spell damage and you still have the same crit. There are so many options that the ring opens for one bar builds, just takes a bit of creativity.

As for overall power, one bar builds should not be able to compete with players using a full range of skills. That shouldn't be a thing. This provide some power and a ton of stats and opens up a ton of options that just are not present in live right now.

The ring pre-nerf didnt make it so one-bar builds could compete with people using 2 bar builds. It made it so they can do enough damage to play with the top end, even if it's sub-optimal. You're still nowhere near the real top end, even with this ring in mind, but it was overtuned before.

Wasn't there someone parsing 120k with it?

It wasn't a super simple build, and used the updated sorc Crystal Weapons pre cost adjustment to achieve it.

Ajaxduo

I agree Oakensoul needed to be tweaked but the nerf was so excessive it's now become effectively useless. ZoS really seems to miss the mark when it comes to balancing (all the useless sets etc we already have). All they needed to do was remove the defensive bonuses or lower the individual bonuses to be in line with a regular item sets, akin to having a full 5pc at the cost of no bar swap.

Qrähe

And it's parsing at 100k after nerfs. The doom and gloom in here is all unfounded.

merpins

Qrähe wrote: »

And it's parsing at 100k after nerfs. The doom and gloom in here is all unfounded.

outside of trials on the top end of the top end of the item.

Vylaera

Qrähe wrote: »

And it's parsing at 100k after nerfs. The doom and gloom in here is all unfounded.

I would like to see where or how because, at least for pvp, it is demonstrably worse than a standard 2 bar build and especially worse than running a more "meta" build with separate frontbar and backbar sets with trainee, monster, and mythic.

Qrähe

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Qrähe wrote: »

And it's parsing at 100k after nerfs. The doom and gloom in here is all unfounded.

I would like to see where or how because, at least for pvp, it is demonstrably worse than a standard 2 bar build and especially worse than running a more "meta" build with separate frontbar and backbar sets with trainee, monster, and mythic.

You see parsing 100k and ask about PvP.... WUT?

As far as released parse images, I know Alcast has one showing like 98k.

As far as in PvP I think it's still going to be usable, it just won't be nearly as strong as it was pre nerf. The buffs still work on WW so it's usable there, just not everyone will be using it level.

Vylaera

Qrähe wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Qrähe wrote: »

And it's parsing at 100k after nerfs. The doom and gloom in here is all unfounded.

I would like to see where or how because, at least for pvp, it is demonstrably worse than a standard 2 bar build and especially worse than running a more "meta" build with separate frontbar and backbar sets with trainee, monster, and mythic.

You see parsing 100k and ask about PvP.... WUT?

As far as released parse images, I know Alcast has one showing like 98k.

As far as in PvP I think it's still going to be usable, it just won't be nearly as strong as it was pre nerf. The buffs still work on WW so it's usable there, just not everyone will be using it level.

I didn't ask about pvp lmao
I stated that it's worse in PvP which would logically translate to also being worse in PvE, so I doubt that it's actually getting that damage in PvE.

Didgerion

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

The moment this ring was revealed, all the one-bar build players rejoiced! As ZoS had answered their call. People with disabilities, whether they be mental or physical, and who could not bar swap could now play one-bar builds on a fairly even playing field.

But...but the set retains all the buffs that will still help players with disabilities, they can forget about re-applying certain buffs and just slot useful skills they like.

While at the same time it prevents the players without disabilities to exploit it.

Jman100582

Currently on live servers there are plenty of one bar builds that already hit over 80k+ dps. Yeah two bar builds on the same classes can hit easily 100k+, but 80k dps is more than enough for a majority of game content. Which makes sense, there should be an incentive to use two bars and have to do more inputs and barswap and animation cancel and all of that. Why should a one bar build hit just as hard as a two bar build? When a two bar build has access to literally double the skills a one bar build has. Oakensoul shouldn’t have made one bar builds just as strong if not stronger than two bar builds to begin with. Yeah I get people have disabilities and all of that and some people can’t animation cancel due to arthritis, and then there are players that simply don’t want to play with two bars and just want to have a more casual unengaging playstyle. Sure throw them a bone with a raise the floor mythic that they have to buy multiple dlc to even get, why not. But raise the floor DOES NOT mean make it equal to the ceiling