PTS Update 34 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the new item sets and Mythic items. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Were there any sets you felt were over or under powered compared to current offerings in the live game?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Morvan

Oakensoul Ring may be too powerful on Werewolves since they won't have any drawbacks by using it, I'll only be sure of that when it hits live, gotta keep an eye on that though, it will certainly be op on PvP.

And it's certainly overpowered if you compare it to Shapeshifter's Chain, a transformation themed mythic that gives Werewolves so little when you compare it to Oakensoul.

EF321

Abadd wrote: »

Oakensoul Ring may be too powerful on Werewolves since they won't have any drawbacks by using it, I'll only be sure of that when it hits live, gotta keep an eye on that though, it will certainly be op on PvP.

And it's certainly overpowered if you compare it to Shapeshifter's Chain, a transformation themed mythic that gives Werewolves so little when you compare it to Oakensoul.

Shapeshifter definitely needs a buff.

EF321

Also, please consider buffing Trainee 1-piece to match Druid 1-piece, don't let all those golden trainee plugs go to waste.

Azrael001

PvP is about to be all WWs for a month or two after this update until Oakensoul is nerfed against them. Great concept to allow for 1-bar builds to be somewhat viable but WW will gain far too much advantage from it as is. Perhaps don't allow transformations while equipped? Or have it multiply existing poison vulnerability so WWs die a lot faster with it equipped than normal (while still having that damage, recovery, and flat stack buffs so it won't be useless to them, just make them more of a glass cannon). WW is already strong enough in PvP, even with poison to counter them.

Tommy_The_Gun

Druid's Braid
1 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
2 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
6 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
7 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
8 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
9 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
10 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
11 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
12 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina


Armor of the Trainee
1 - Adds 1454 Maximum Health
2 - Adds 1454 Maximum Magicka
3 - Adds 1454 Maximum Stamina

It would be hard to talk about Druid's Braid without mentioning Armor of the Trainee. Both are easily available and both come in all weapon types and armour weights (light / medium / heavy). Both are pretty much identical - and that is imho an issue. In order to make both armour sets relevant, It would be nice to make them slightly more different. Maybe swapping bonuses for example, so that Armor of the Trainee would have max stamina bonus as 2nd or something.

Also, a side note - after hybridisation changes - both of those sets favour magicka builds. Lets be real here - this type of set is mostly used as a "gap-filler" set. If you are missing for example 1 or 2 piece in your build. I can imagine for the most part, players will use 1 Trainee & 1 Druid's Braid. Also, Magicka builds will be able to use 2 Trainee & 2 Druid's Braid - bypassing the stamina bonus they dont need. Stamina builds on the other hand will not be able to do so, since both sets have Magicka bonus as 2nd. That is why I think it would be more fair & healthy for the game & diversity to make one of those set to have Maximum Stamina as 2nd gear set bonus.

athena9205

Serpent’s Disdain
2 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 – Adds 1206 Maximum Health
4 – Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
5 – Increase the duration of Status Effects you apply by 16 seconds

status effects:

Stun
Disorient
Off Balance
Levitate
Fear
Silence
Reveal
Knockback
Immobilize/Root
Snare
Burning
Chilled
Concussed
Poisoned
Diseased
Hemorrhaging
Sundered
Overcharged

Question, will this set make off balance last 7+16 (23) seconds long or will it ignore this status effect ?

athena9205

If so this would be a viable set for Heavy attack builds.

CP5

The only things on that list that are status effects are from burning down. Disabling effects and partially disabling effects aren't status effects, which are unique things that trigger off of specific damage types.

athena9205

Then the wiki needs updating: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Status_Effects

baratron

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Druid's Braid
1 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
2 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
6 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
7 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
8 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
9 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
10 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
11 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
12 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina

Wait, what? This isn't some kind of typo in the Patch Notes? There really is a new set with up to 12 effects?

Well, that's interesting. I assume it's intended for levelling, where you just want to match the sets you have and not worry about which pieces you need. Maybe?

jaws343

baratron wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Druid's Braid
1 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
2 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
6 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
7 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
8 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
9 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
10 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
11 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
12 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina

Wait, what? This isn't some kind of typo in the Patch Notes? There really is a new set with up to 12 effects?

Well, that's interesting. I assume it's intended for levelling, where you just want to match the sets you have and not worry about which pieces you need. Maybe?

I mentioned this in another thread, but at around 9-11 pieces it will be pretty strong on a max stat mag sorc alongside death dealer. Think 40k mag, 30k stam, 35k health. Super large shields.

Nebula_DooM

jaws343 wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Druid's Braid
1 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
2 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
6 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
7 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
8 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
9 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
10 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
11 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
12 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina

Wait, what? This isn't some kind of typo in the Patch Notes? There really is a new set with up to 12 effects?

Well, that's interesting. I assume it's intended for levelling, where you just want to match the sets you have and not worry about which pieces you need. Maybe?

I mentioned this in another thread, but at around 9-11 pieces it will be pretty strong on a max stat mag sorc alongside death dealer. Think 40k mag, 30k stam, 35k health. Super large shields.

Dont forget shields are capped at health.

So for 35k health annulment and unmorphed conjured ward is 50% of your current health which is 17.5k shield. It is a huge shield however you still need the magicka to get to the cap. The amount of max magicka you need for a 17.5k shield is a lot if my calculations and skill coefficients from UESP is correct. You would need roughly 56,470 magicka to reach the cap with 35k health in pve. In pvp you would need roughly double that at 112,940 magicka to reach the cap since battle spirit would kick in. This is without the bastion cp as well. But it is a lot of max health and especially max stam for sorcs to utilize.

jaws343

Nebula_DooM wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Druid's Braid
1 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
2 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
6 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
7 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
8 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
9 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
10 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
11 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
12 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina

Wait, what? This isn't some kind of typo in the Patch Notes? There really is a new set with up to 12 effects?

Well, that's interesting. I assume it's intended for levelling, where you just want to match the sets you have and not worry about which pieces you need. Maybe?

I mentioned this in another thread, but at around 9-11 pieces it will be pretty strong on a max stat mag sorc alongside death dealer. Think 40k mag, 30k stam, 35k health. Super large shields.

Dont forget shields are capped at health.

So for 35k health annulment and unmorphed conjured ward is 50% of your current health which is 17.5k shield. It is a huge shield however you still need the magicka to get to the cap. The amount of max magicka you need for a 17.5k shield is a lot if my calculations and skill coefficients from UESP is correct. You would need roughly 56,470 magicka to reach the cap with 35k health in pve. In pvp you would need roughly double that at 112,940 magicka to reach the cap since battle spirit would kick in. This is without the bastion cp as well. But it is a lot of max health and especially max stam for sorcs to utilize.

Oh for sure, the mag drop from a live build right now is a bit of a hit. But on live with around 29K health and 45K mag, I hit 18K hardened ward. These stat changes should push it closer to 20K with Bastion as well. But yeah, I think the bigger benefit is the ear 30K stam and 35K health. Bigger health pool to survive a bit more, and that stam is nice, especially on a dodge roll oriented mag sorc.

Idk, I like the concept here for this set. They definitely need to do something for Trainee though. Maybe give trainee max stat + regen for each piece to make the 3 piece compete with Druid still but keep it unique. I hope this 12 piece set idea opens the way for more sets like it. Would be cool to have a 12 piece set with unique bonuses on the 3rd, 5th, 8th, and 12th piece or something similar.

Halcyon_Kismet

Abadd wrote: »

Oakensoul Ring may be too powerful on Werewolves since they won't have any drawbacks by using it, I'll only be sure of that when it hits live, gotta keep an eye on that though, it will certainly be op on PvP.

And it's certainly overpowered if you compare it to Shapeshifter's Chain, a transformation themed mythic that gives Werewolves so little when you compare it to Oakensoul.

Werewolves are underpowered in both PvE and PvP at the endgame. In PvE, they are about 20 - 30k behind every other class. (For evidence, go look up Skinny Cheeks dps guides and you will see WW's barely hit 100k while everybody else is about 120 - 132)

For PvP, WW's either build tank and do zero damage, or build DPS and get completely trashed by any competent player. WW's can't have an offensive & defensive bar like the top builds which are able to do both. Are they good at killing new players? Sure. But against good players they struggle and lose most 1v1's.

Just about any other set in the game is overpowered compared to the Shapeshifter's Chain. That mythic is so underpowered its almost a joke! It certainly is in need of a buff or something that makes it special like unlimited wolf transformation or double scion / bone goliath time while still providing its paltry stats..

I believe the design of the Oakensoul mythic is to the players who need it most a helping hand. Players that are using 1 bar builds and underperforming Werewolves check both of those boxes and give them a much needed lift up without making these builds overpowered.

vgabor

Halcyon_Kismet wrote: »

Abadd wrote: »

Oakensoul Ring may be too powerful on Werewolves since they won't have any drawbacks by using it, I'll only be sure of that when it hits live, gotta keep an eye on that though, it will certainly be op on PvP.

And it's certainly overpowered if you compare it to Shapeshifter's Chain, a transformation themed mythic that gives Werewolves so little when you compare it to Oakensoul.

Werewolves are underpowered in both PvE and PvP at the endgame. In PvE, they are about 20 - 30k behind every other class. (For evidence, go look up Skinny Cheeks dps guides and you will see WW's barely hit 100k while everybody else is about 120 - 132)

For PvP, WW's either build tank and do zero damage, or build DPS and get completely trashed by any competent player. WW's can't have an offensive & defensive bar like the top builds which are able to do both. Are they good at killing new players? Sure. But against good players they struggle and lose most 1v1's.

Just about any other set in the game is overpowered compared to the Shapeshifter's Chain. That mythic is so underpowered its almost a joke! It certainly is in need of a buff or something that makes it special like unlimited wolf transformation or double scion / bone goliath time while still providing its paltry stats..

I believe the design of the Oakensoul mythic is to the players who need it most a helping hand. Players that are using 1 bar builds and underperforming Werewolves check both of those boxes and give them a much needed lift up without making these builds overpowered.

I agree in PvE the Oakensoul Ring won't be problem, rather it even would help the WWs not just roleplay/meme build. Not to mention what came up in another thread that this mythic is a great help to people with disabilities who cannot manage a standard 2 bar light attach build and have to use a much simpler and less hand muscle demanding 1 bar build.

In PvP however I also think this mythic would be problematic and OP on WW, so I think it somehow should be differently balanced for PvE and PvP. How about if battle spirit would apply to all the buffs it gives, effectively halving them for PvP making it still usable but not too OP.

notyuu

What, if I may ask is the exsact point of of the Mora's Whispers Mythic?
the bonuses it offers are useful for players who are aiming to level up, problem is said bonses are tied directly into how many lore books you've found, which is something typically done after you've already gotten most if not all of the way there in terms of leveling stuff.

In other words, it's an EXP booster that you only get the full benefit from when you're already maxed out
sure the crit bonus is nice but it's not really worth a shoulder slot as it stands due to the potential cost vs a monster set

maybe consider changing the bonus so it stats at 10% more monster kill exp and once you pass a certain number of books collected another bonus gets added in, with more books another and so on until you've got all the books at which point then you'd get the crit bonus, which should be made higher.

wolfie1.0.

I see one of the sets references core abilities what is that defined as?

francesinhalover

Make it so orkensul doesnt work on werewolves

ESO_Nightingale

I don't know if this is a bug or an intended feature, but I'll include it regardless since it conflicts with other "when it ends" sources.

Whorl of the Depths single target DoT will not summon the whirlpool if the target dies before it ends, this is really frustrating for short encounters, and it'd be a really nice quality of life change if it would summon the whirlpool even if the target died, since that should count as "when it ends".


EDIT:(this has been fixed)

guarstompemoji

Letting Oakensoul work on Werewolves (and to be fair, it'd need to exclude vampires) risks damaging the accessibility community, as well as a preference in playstyle. Oakensoul is a great opportunity to help both this community and playstyle.

* "Standard" ESO Combat is made to work around 2 bars, not 1, which already places 1-bar at a disadvantage
* Werewolf is meant to work around and be strong on 1 bar
* 1 bar builds are used by folks with limited mobility, by folks who enjoy the playstyle, and for folks for whom it feels more natural

Letting it work with werewolf will likely cause it to be balanced around werewolf, and not around the group who play 1 bar either due to a preference, or a physical limitation.

Runefang

guarstompemoji wrote: »

Letting Oakensoul work on Werewolves (and to be fair, it'd need to exclude vampires) risks damaging the accessibility community, as well as a preference in playstyle. Oakensoul is a great opportunity to help both this community and playstyle.

* "Standard" ESO Combat is made to work around 2 bars, not 1, which already places 1-bar at a disadvantage
* Werewolf is meant to work around and be strong on 1 bar
* 1 bar builds are used by folks with limited mobility, by folks who enjoy the playstyle, and for folks for whom it feels more natural

Letting it work with werewolf will likely cause it to be balanced around werewolf, and not around the group who play 1 bar either due to a preference, or a physical limitation.

It’s still too strong though, most classes can hit over 100k with it which on top of great survivability benefits puts it over the edge.

code65536

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I see one of the sets references core abilities what is that defined as?

IIRC, dodge, block, sprint, break free, etc.

code65536

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Druid's Braid
1 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
2 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
3 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
5 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
6 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
7 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
8 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
9 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina
10 – Adds 1540 Maximum Health
11 – Adds 1401 Maximum Magicka
12 – Adds 1401 Maximum Stamina


Armor of the Trainee
1 - Adds 1454 Maximum Health
2 - Adds 1454 Maximum Magicka
3 - Adds 1454 Maximum Stamina

It would be hard to talk about Druid's Braid without mentioning Armor of the Trainee. Both are easily available and both come in all weapon types and armour weights (light / medium / heavy). Both are pretty much identical - and that is imho an issue. In order to make both armour sets relevant, It would be nice to make them slightly more different. Maybe swapping bonuses for example, so that Armor of the Trainee would have max stamina bonus as 2nd or something.

Also, a side note - after hybridisation changes - both of those sets favour magicka builds. Lets be real here - this type of set is mostly used as a "gap-filler" set. If you are missing for example 1 or 2 piece in your build. I can imagine for the most part, players will use 1 Trainee & 1 Druid's Braid. Also, Magicka builds will be able to use 2 Trainee & 2 Druid's Braid - bypassing the stamina bonus they dont need. Stamina builds on the other hand will not be able to do so, since both sets have Magicka bonus as 2nd. That is why I think it would be more fair & healthy for the game & diversity to make one of those set to have Maximum Stamina as 2nd gear set bonus.

You're missing the point.

You have to keep in mind that Braid is a 7-trait set. The Trainee set has always been intended as a starter set for new players. They're not going to be able to craft a 7-trait set, nor are they going to be asking around for people to craft them Braid (aside from the hassles of asking strangers in a new game, they likely wouldn't know about it, and how would they pay for it?), whereas Trainee drops readily for them in the zones that they are intended to be in.

So, yes, you can compare them, but I don't see the point of such a comparison. Trainee is--and has always been--intended as a special set for new players. Veteran players have long saw potential in using Trainee outside of that intended purpose (and this has even led to a previous nerf of Trainee), and Braid solves that problem by offering a set that follows the same scheme as Trainee (no-frills stat bonuses), but is more suitable for old-timers (more flexibility with item count and easily accessible to those who have developed their crafting).

What Braid does is reinforce Trainee's intended role by giving an attractive alternative to those people who would otherwise use Trainee outside of its intended role.

Grizzbeorn

Azrael001 wrote: »

PvP is about to be all WWs for a month or two after this update until Oakensoul is nerfed against them. Great concept to allow for 1-bar builds to be somewhat viable but WW will gain far too much advantage from it as is.

So bar it from being useable in PvP/BGs.

STOP degrading PvE because of PvP issues!

SEINTDARKNES

So bar it from being useable in PvP/BGs.

STOP degrading PvE because of PvP issues!

You're joking right?

Pve have a lots of extra damage in fact is really easy to skip some mechanics in some fights, why everytime ppl are fighting because pve nerf pvp or pvp nerf pve their are just balances, if we keep it real then we need to nerf a lot i mean a lot of dmg in pve because you just need some thumbs and can archive real high dmg, ppl like to have high numbers because why not, and still I'm not trying to make pvers not having fun asking for nerfs, if they like skip mechanics good if not good the real important is they get fun just don't break pvp.

An extra point i want to say it's that ESO was firstly a pvp game and seems a little unfair that pve is in a good healthy state meanwhile pvers are having fun and still keep saying things like your comment.

Things like the Oakensoul ring is pretty unbalanced in pvp so a nerf would be nice if not pvpers will not have the same fun pvers have.

I'm really surprised when ppl don't empathize with other ppl and just want all the things to be nice to themselves when clearly this kind of things hurts the amount of fun other ppl can have.

It's clearly to everyone that would be amazing if pve and pve where balance separately but is not the case so maybe just maybe we need to put more of our own having more empathy for the ppl that play this game.

Topic apart, i think it would be nice if the set Whorl of the Depths proc the second part of the set if the enemy dies, it's frost damage so i don't think will break the dps numbers, we have for example plaguebreak that doesn't state that if you kill the enemy will proc the effect and i think having the same condition to this set would be amazing and will have more reliable dps numbers.

Tommy_The_Gun

francesinhalover wrote: »

Make it so orkensul doesnt work on werewolves

Every item set in ESO works differently on different class / play style. Some synergise better than others. A Sorc will use different mythic than NB or DK. So, just because WW synergises best with Oakensoul it automatically means that it should not be allowed for a WW to use it ?

That is kinda flawed logic. If I am able to get away with using a set that has a drawback on a build that minimizes that drawback (example: Gaze of Sithis on a build that does not block much) then should I be unable to use this set at all ?

I think that is obvious, but I am gonna say it: WW is not always in WW from. There are moments when you have to cancel out the ulti (or you do not have accumulated enough ulit points yet). Part of the WW gameplay that is crucial is to know when to transform or when to cancel transformation. Often it may decide whenever you die or not. So outside of WW form you will have 5 skills and no ulti. You lose all the flexibility you would normally have. So it is not like WW can 100% mitigate the drawback of Oakensoul - it is just minimized, because "having only 1 bar" is a drawback that WW already has.

acastanza_ESO

There isn't a thread for this, so I'm going to put it here because it has to do with the relationship to the new mythics. The Kilt should absolutely not have the duration nerfed. It did not need this at all, now it'll be impossible to keep up the stacks in any situation that isn't a perfect uninterrupted DPS burn stack. It was already highly situational, and the new mythics will already be making it even more situational.

This really just comes off as a blatant cash grab and reinforces the formula of "new mythics in old mythics out, time to give us money for the new ones", and it's a real bad look.

Runefang

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

There isn't a thread for this, so I'm going to put it here because it has to do with the relationship to the new mythics. The Kilt should absolutely not have the duration nerfed. It did not need this at all, now it'll be impossible to keep up the stacks in any situation that isn't a perfect uninterrupted DPS burn stack. It was already highly situational, and the new mythics will already be making it even more situational.

This really just comes off as a blatant cash grab and reinforces the formula of "new mythics in old mythics out, time to give us money for the new ones", and it's a real bad look.

It will be fine, it is still going to be best in slot. And it isn’t highly situational right now.

acastanza_ESO

It really is situational. It's only good in trial content, and then, only good in the subset of fights where you can sit and parse with no effects that hit the DPS and drop stacks. A small subset of content, then a subset of fights within that subset of content. That's the definition of highly situational.

They could have at least buffed the duration of the immunity that prevents you from loosing stacks to damage, especially since they're adding a new mythic that gives even more crit chance (the 5-piece worth of medusa as a 1 piece, while nerfing CP crit chance stars) as a flat bonus without bothering with stacks (...for money).

Aliyavana

oakensoul ring uses a common necklace visual as an icon. it should have a unique icon like the rest of the mythic items